Here's why You DON'T want ESO to go F2P

Roechacca

The free to play business model is a ruse . F2P always ends up costing more to the subscribers that want full game acces .

You have to pay for access to areas such as pvp zones and Dungeons . Player housing , more storage or bank vaults become unlocks for cash . Level restrictions mean more cash to the Unsubscribed player . Limitations on the amount of characters created . Character looks become unlocks for cash . Every expansion becomes paid access .

Even when told those who elect to subscribe will get full access , the Gift shop model always ends up selling items that can't be found or aquired in game .

The player economy goes into shambles as crafted items become available though the gift shop model . More Cash for content .

Finally as someone mentioned , the flood of undesirable Facebook nay Sayers rush into the free community spouting their rubbish without consequence because if they get banned , they just make another free account with a new email .

You end up with more gold farmers and trouble every time as the community falls apart .

Free to play is a CASH Scam and will cost many way more in the end .

WhiskyBob

First of all F2P attracks all sorts of random kids that ruin the community. Also item shops usually ruin the game style with rainbow farting pony mounts.

ItsGlaive

Agreed, every game I've ever seen go F2P end up going down this road. Some start with good intentions (LOTRO for example) but eventually this is always where they all end up.

Gyudan

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Also item shops usually ruin the game style with rainbow farting pony mounts.

but ... but I want my purple fire-breathing dragon mount with a baby dragon pet and paying upgrades for my gear

ers101284b14_ESO

Also if it was F2P this wouldn't be possible

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9258/A-Look-Back-at-2014.html

But enjoy your $15 tiger mount, your $5 dog, Your $30 ebony Armor Your $20 character slot, your $10 for an extra 10 slots of bags (Not in game gold and you still have a max cap so no you don't get more than you have now). Your $1 per lockpick and more latency on it so you break them all the time, you $5 bronze undaunted key, $10 silver undaunted key $15 gold undaunted key. Your $10 Emperor costume because earning it is too hard. Your dyes for $3 a piece.

Amsel_McKay

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Also if it was F2P this wouldn't be possible

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9258/A-Look-Back-at-2014.html

But enjoy your $15 tiger mount, your $5 dog, Your $30 ebony Armor Your $20 character slot, your $10 for an extra 10 slots of bags (Not in game gold and you still have a max cap so no you don't get more than you have now). Your $1 per lockpick and more latency on it so you break them all the time, you $5 bronze undaunted key, $10 silver undaunted key $15 gold undaunted key. Your $10 Emperor costume because earning it is too hard. Your dyes for $3 a piece.

You can already buy stuff at the ESO shop for ingame....

Sorgrim

I'm not quick to guess what Zenimax would charge for arbitrarily under such a scenario, but I'm against F2P regardless. The expenses and pay-blocks would be there, however they may manifest, and I am convinced that transitioning into this pay model would be deleterious to the game.

We've seen the patterns time and time again.

Xexpo

It's not going F2P... what a bunch of wasted energy

Zorrashi

Most of the time it is not really F2P.....it usually goes into a freemium model.

Roechacca

For all the commenters on PCGAMER that ask "Who pays for a MMO in 2014 anymore?"

The answer is onlythose who know a thing or two about money and games .

JamilaRaj

But free to pay business model has also some advantages. E.g. better people which unfortunately have not enough time or skil to be top players but have money can simply buy corresponding status through goodies in cash shop.

TheShadowScout

I have seen FtP and subscribed games.
Much prefer the latter...
IMO, it is true that FtP ruins a LOT of the fun through endless gold farmers, jerks and trolls who enjoy having nothing much to loose so they can just mess with others, item shop entrees to drain more money from the players and so on... I'd rather see the six month subscription return.

eliisra

I would quit ESO instantly if it went full f2p. I cant afford it.

For a very casual player it obviously doesn't matter. You get most quest-lines and zones to enjoy in your own pace, free of charge. Coins you make from basic drops is often enough to unlock basic functionally. It's not a bad deal.

But for someone like me, that also wants to enjoy PvP and PvE at level cap, playing a f2p is out of the question. Never again. I'm not willing to spend that kind of money on a leisure activity, to stay competitive in PvP and reach what ever gear rating is required for PvE endgame.

F2p can only go one way, p2w. Usually starts with more rng based and extraordinary loot. People are burned by rng.Than comes the solution, semi-gambling in the form of lucky boxes with pets, upgrades, mounts and top tier gear. Buy 9 boxes for the price of 10. Content updates are suddenly the same as store updates. Last strike is top tier gear and items being sold directly in the store for values close to a months salary...for the unlucky, for the ones that has a full-time job and can't play 80 hours a week.

Than the fanbois always goes: Hey noob, it's not p2w, because you achieve the same items by actually playing the game!

They always ignore the fact that such an endeavour would take a normal person close to a year.

DDuke

JamilaRaj wrote: »

But free to pay business model has also some advantages. E.g. better people which unfortunately have not enough time or skil to be top players but have money can simply buy corresponding status through goodies in cash shop.

So, you'd like "credit card warriors" to dominate the game, not because they're dedicated & care about it, but because they happen to have a lot of money?

You know, in other aspects of life, this kind of practice is called "corruption".
In general, it is not a very nice thing to have.

LtCrunch

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Also if it was F2P this wouldn't be possible

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9258/A-Look-Back-at-2014.html

But enjoy your $15 tiger mount, your $5 dog, Your $30 ebony Armor Your $20 character slot, your $10 for an extra 10 slots of bags (Not in game gold and you still have a max cap so no you don't get more than you have now). Your $1 per lockpick and more latency on it so you break them all the time, you $5 bronze undaunted key, $10 silver undaunted key $15 gold undaunted key. Your $10 Emperor costume because earning it is too hard. Your dyes for $3 a piece.

You can already buy stuff at the ESO shop for ingame....

Imp Edition and a horse. Neither of which gives any real gameplay advantage. Hardly comparable.

Dracane

I have never seen a F2P MMO, where I have to pay for PvP and dungeons (Haven't played many though)

But I agree, ESO should stay like it is now. Before it was released, I've hated this system. But I think, it's better that way, but it also is a dream. ESO won't stay like that for too long. I'm sure, they are forced to make it B2P in the future, because it will loose players and who knows, if the cash from a B2P system is enough for them to keep the content for free.

But I pray to Auri-El, that ESO will grow and become stronger.

JamilaRaj

DDuke wrote: »

You know, in other aspects of life, this kind of practice is called "corruption".
In general, it is not a very nice thing to have.

Yes, the lubricant of economy.
Generally it's not a nice thing, but individually people gladly pay anyway.

TheLaw

It's a no-brainer that F2P would ruin this game. People expect quality content, for free....that'll never happen.

SFBryan18

Like when Stan spent all of Randy's money on freemeium games.

martinhpb16_ESO

F2P Destroyed LOTRO which used to be an awesome game.

Its so commercial now it stinks and the devs seem to have little control over the incessant cash shop creep.

Jennifur_Vultee

eliisra wrote: »

I would quit ESO instantly if it went full f2p. I cant afford it.

For a very casual player it obviously doesn't matter. You get most quest-lines and zones to enjoy in your own pace, free of charge. Coins you make from basic drops is often enough to unlock basic functionally. It's not a bad deal.

But for someone like me, that also wants to enjoy PvP and PvE at level cap, playing a f2p is out of the question. Never again. I'm not willing to spend that kind of money on a leisure activity, to stay competitive in PvP and reach what ever gear rating is required for PvE endgame.

F2p can only go one way, p2w. Usually starts with more rng based and extraordinary loot. People are burned by rng.Than comes the solution, semi-gambling in the form of lucky boxes with pets, upgrades, mounts and top tier gear. Buy 9 boxes for the price of 10. Content updates are suddenly the same as store updates. Last strike is top tier gear and items being sold directly in the store for values close to a months salary...for the unlucky, for the ones that has a full-time job and can't play 80 hours a week.

Than the fanbois always goes: Hey noob, it's not p2w, because you achieve the same items by actually playing the game!

They always ignore the fact that such an endeavour would take a normal person close to a year.

I played Scarlet Blade for a year...its exactly what you're describing. After playing a year and buying little more than bag space (temporary 30 day bag space mind you), pet hunger hacks to keep my stat boosting pet full for 24 hours and occasionally playing the Loot Wheel to maybe get items I could use or sell. I wasn't near as competitive in end game PVP as the Wallet Warriors who paid $350 a month in the cash shop to get the best gear "free" as a reward for spending that much.

I had four pieces of unique gear (best in game) that I got through dungeon farming or buying/trading only one of which was +10 enhanced (highest enhancement level) and the rest was rare quality gear so a player with a full set of +10 enhanced unique gear saw me as nothing more than an easy kill because of the firepower difference between our gear and enhancement levels. Sure I could easily own noobs who entered the PVP questing zone and could fight toe to toe with others about my gear level but if my friend Larz and I ran into a single fully unique geared enemy they would generally wipe us off the map in seconds. I can't even count the number of times we ran into an enemy medic and found ourselves back at the spawn point after she blew us away because of her unique +10 gear.

I have no desire for ESO to turn into that...to me the F2P/P2W cash shop games like that are a perfect example of how to ruin a fun game and drive players away. As soon as ESO went live in early access my entire guild left Scarlet and never went back.

danno8

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Also if it was F2P this wouldn't be possible

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9258/A-Look-Back-at-2014.html

But enjoy your $15 tiger mount, your $5 dog, Your $30 ebony Armor Your $20 character slot, your $10 for an extra 10 slots of bags (Not in game gold and you still have a max cap so no you don't get more than you have now). Your $1 per lockpick and more latency on it so you break them all the time, you $5 bronze undaunted key, $10 silver undaunted key $15 gold undaunted key. Your $10 Emperor costume because earning it is too hard. Your dyes for $3 a piece.

I agree with this general feel for most F2P. So much "in your face" ads for the store.

B2P like GW2 are far less obtrusive and communities are far better, simply because there is an "entry fee" to playing the game. Honestly if I didn't know there was a shop in GW2 I would never have clued in based on in-game experience.

Alphashado

danno816_ESO wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Also if it was F2P this wouldn't be possible

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9258/A-Look-Back-at-2014.html

But enjoy your $15 tiger mount, your $5 dog, Your $30 ebony Armor Your $20 character slot, your $10 for an extra 10 slots of bags (Not in game gold and you still have a max cap so no you don't get more than you have now). Your $1 per lockpick and more latency on it so you break them all the time, you $5 bronze undaunted key, $10 silver undaunted key $15 gold undaunted key. Your $10 Emperor costume because earning it is too hard. Your dyes for $3 a piece.

I agree with this general feel for most F2P. So much "in your face" ads for the store.

So much this! I cannot stress enough how bloody annoying it is to constantly have AT LEAST one bright, flashing icon on the screen somewhere at all times reminding you that there is a cash shop and that life would be oh-so-much-better if you just click on the bright shiny icon and take out your credit card.

KhajitFurTrader

According to a massive survey conducted by Swrve, tracking the habits of 10 million new players on 30 games over the course of 90 days, the conclusions are bewildering. The report states that around 46 percent of all revenue comes from 0.22 percent of the total player base, with two thirds of people stopping playing after one day.

Additionally, only 2.2 percent of the total number of players who try a game ever spend any money, and the spending isn't spread evenly even then, with 10 percent of the total number of paying users contributing almost half of the total revenue.

Source: http://news.softpedia.com/news/98-of-All-Free-to-Play-Gamers-Never-Spend-Any-Money-Games-Earn-from-Just-2-of-Users-438687.shtml (published 22 Apr 2014)

F2P attracts freeloaders, first and foremost. Those willing to spend any amount of money will be coaxed to do so with every dirty trick found in the psychology book. Gameplay will no longer mainly revolve around giving players a good time, but making them reach for their wallets. Beware of "Slobbit Machines" (those who know, know).

daemonios

MMORPG's are an ongoing entertainment *service*, not a mere game you buy. Development and server maintenance are ongoing activities. A F2P game still has to pay for that, so either it becomes P2W (pay-to-win), with essential content behind a paywall, or a game subsidized by vanity items. But I've never seen an example of the latter, despite many swearing that "it's not a P2W game, honest!".

In short: you're getting a service, it's only fair that you pay for it if you want to use it.

knightblaster

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

According to a massive survey conducted by Swrve, tracking the habits of 10 million new players on 30 games over the course of 90 days, the conclusions are bewildering. The report states that around 46 percent of all revenue comes from 0.22 percent of the total player base, with two thirds of people stopping playing after one day.

Additionally, only 2.2 percent of the total number of players who try a game ever spend any money, and the spending isn't spread evenly even then, with 10 percent of the total number of paying users contributing almost half of the total revenue.

Source: http://news.softpedia.com/news/98-of-All-Free-to-Play-Gamers-Never-Spend-Any-Money-Games-Earn-from-Just-2-of-Users-438687.shtml (published 22 Apr 2014)

F2P attracts freeloaders, first and foremost. Those willing to spend any amount of money will be coaxed to do so with every dirty trick found in the psychology book. Gameplay will no longer mainly revolve around giving players a good time, but making them reach for their wallets. Beware of "Slobbit Machines" (those who know, know).

Yes.

F2P's make most of their money from "whales", the small percentage of players who spend many multiples of $15 per month on various things available for cash. Most players don't P2W, but a small percentage is willing to pay anything to win, so if you are an edge competitive player, you get screwed by this system (the average player doesn't, really, because they aren't edge competitive).

ers101284b14_ESO

I like how Extra Credits explain it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U

It explains how F2P can be good but why its currently bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0
Also this one

Bloodystab

F2P for me looks like:

We dismiss 80% of our employees - we hire students with small programming skills to make working easy thing like 3x XP boost, 3x AP boost. And few graphic designers to make shinny phatz (dont think they will be in ESO, we still dont have lore breaking stuff) in ESO some dye's and Motifs will work.

But worst thing is lack of new updates or poor quality.

DeLindsay

roechacca wrote: »

The free to play business model is a ruse . F2P always ends up costing more to the subscribers that want full game acces .

You have to pay for access to areas such as pvp zones and Dungeons . Player housing , more storage or bank vaults become unlocks for cash . Level restrictions mean more cash to the Unsubscribed player . Limitations on the amount of characters created . Character looks become unlocks for cash . Every expansion becomes paid access .

Even when told those who elect to subscribe will get full access , the Gift shop model always ends up selling items that can't be found or aquired in game .

Finally as someone mentioned , the flood of undesirable Facebook nay Sayers rush into the free community spouting their rubbish without consequence because if they get banned , they just make another free account with a new email .

You end up with more gold farmers and trouble every time as the community falls apart .

F2P MAKES more money than P2P but that doesn't mean it COSTS more money, if done correctly like Trion did with Rift. Rift is 100% full access to anyone with the only exception being a few souls (Class Trees for other games) that are by no means required to play. Also in Rift, you cannot purchase the top tier gear from the cash shop, meaning it's not P2W like Neverwinter. However, it's 100% true that player SPEND more money in a F2P game because they have access to so many desirable items from the cash shop. It's also true that some F2P games put up paywalls with content, but not all do.

Yes, F2P seems to bring in a flood of "undesirables" that many just sit and troll chat spouting all kinds of hateful things all day/night. But the same can be said about MANY of the ESO forum warriors, or any other game as well. In F2P games they just yell louder. And it doesn't negatively effect the economy anymore than any game with rare drops does (as long as those rare drops aren't in the cash shop also).

You don't get any more gold farmers in F2P than P2P. WoW has always been P2P and it's only been in the past few years that they finally got rid of most of the gold farmers, who were a plague for 7-8+ years. WoW has also had a cash shop for YEARS that sells things you cannot get in game and Blizzard charges for EVERYTHING. So saying F2P always costs more is misleading.

The best way a company can approach F2P is like Trion did and also have a P2P option that gives added benefits (they also have a 1yr sub) and never allow the current top tier gear to be purchased via the cash shop. Also as mentioned, allowing full access to the entire game is a great way to do it too. And lastly, that everything on the cash shop is also available in game that way those who have the time to farm a thing can choose to do so, those who don't can choose to buy it. Sadly though Trion has never been able to fix the disastrous lag in Conquest (like our Cryodiil) so many left the game for that reason, myself included. You think lag is bad in Cyro, I would love to hear your thoughts after trying to do CQ in Rift

EDIT: I should mention I played Rift from launch so I benefited from that when they went F2P/P2P. Those who started after it changed and only chose F2P were limited by more than just 4 Souls. They have 2 less bag slots, and (4?) less character slots to start with, where I had full everything since I played when it was P2P.

TheShadowScout

Indeed, FtP usually ends up like that. Without subscription income, they need to have other ways to get their profit...

PtW is almost assured, be it in gear, or through weekly passes to gain access to the PvP/dungeons you need to earn your gear (Like Age of Conan, where pretty much all the endgame stuff needed passes or subscription... or SWTOR, three daily FPs/PvP arenas free per week, the rest you need to pay for... back when I was there, competetive players needed at least three of each per day to keep their cash flow and commendation income at the level to buy stuff...)

And don't get me started on how some games screw their players with putting all the good stuff in "lockboxes" random mob drops, and then sell the keys to those in the cash shop for horrendous prices...

Oh, and of course, they also go "pay to look good" - SWTOR had dyes, but the good ones were as expensive as back in the old roman empire, since they all were rare random drops from cash shop surprise packs.

In the end, I'd rather pay a monthly fee to support the game upkeep, and maybe some extra for special services (like major character changes, renames, etc.) and have all the other fun stuff earn-able through gameplay...

Leeric

Companies choose F2P to make more money from those playing, not less.