Here's why You DON'T want ESO to go F2P

Alphashado

Leeric wrote: »

Companies choose F2P to make more money from those playing, not less.

My personal opinion is that they do it in order to get by with less. Less development, less staff, less new content, and less maintenance.


And less integrity.

Gilvoth

roechacca wrote: »

The free to play business model is a ruse . F2P always ends up costing more to the subscribers that want full game acces .

You have to pay for access to areas such as pvp zones and Dungeons . Player housing , more storage or bank vaults become unlocks for cash . Level restrictions mean more cash to the Unsubscribed player . Limitations on the amount of characters created . Character looks become unlocks for cash . Every expansion becomes paid access .

Even when told those who elect to subscribe will get full access , the Gift shop model always ends up selling items that can't be found or aquired in game .

The player economy goes into shambles as crafted items become available though the gift shop model . More Cash for content .

Finally as someone mentioned , the flood of undesirable Facebook nay Sayers rush into the free community spouting their rubbish without consequence because if they get banned , they just make another free account with a new email .

You end up with more gold farmers and trouble every time as the community falls apart .

Free to play is a CASH Scam and will cost many way more in the end .

then why cant i find the "rings of mara" in eso?

Gilvoth

TheShadowScout wrote: »

In the end, I'd rather pay a monthly fee to support the game upkeep, and maybe some extra for special services (like major character changes, renames, etc.) and have all the other fun stuff earn-able through gameplay...

no
that stuff is all supose to be included in the subscription and found "IN Game"
not found by paying money for it.

Holycannoli

Alphashado wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

Companies choose F2P to make more money from those playing, not less.

My personal opinion is that they do it in order to get by with less. Less development, less staff, less new content, and less maintenance.


And less integrity.

They do it because they know a few whales will make them more money. There are people who will literally spend hundreds if not thousands on a F2P game. Attract masses of people with a "free" game and try to hook as many whales as possible. It's a bigger problem in the mobile device world than the PC MMORPG world but it still applies.

Going F2P means a lot of future development decisions will be based on how things can be monetized. If you want an extreme example of that look at Star Trek Online.

One of the most popular monetization scams now is the lock box. I find lock boxes downright offensive. "Pay us money and maybe you'll get what you want but you'll probably get cheap stuff instead. It's gambling, we know it and you know it, but legally it can't be called that because you do get something every time. " Then there's money gates where you can't access places unless you pay, items you can't get without paying, new mounts or pets that are only available through the cash shop and are clearly better looking than any free mounts or pets, constant reminders about new cash shop offerings through email or loading screens...ugh.

Want an example of F2P done right? Path Of Exile. Yes it doesn't have anywhere near the overhead a MMORPG has but it's so unobtrusive that you actually want to buy things just to support the game. I bought a cat and some upgraded stash tabs I didn't really need just because I felt like supporting them and their superior F2P model. On the flipside we have Rift, a game I loved when it was a subscription game. I quit about a month after it went F2P. I don't even remember their exact F2P model now but I do remember feeling that the game took a serious downturn with the introduction of a cash shop. The game suddenly felt very cheap and like the focus of development was on how they could entice people to spend money in their cash shop.

Let's face it: how many F2P games are actually free to play?

Roechacca

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

The free to play business model is a ruse . F2P always ends up costing more to the subscribers that want full game acces .

You have to pay for access to areas such as pvp zones and Dungeons . Player housing , more storage or bank vaults become unlocks for cash . Level restrictions mean more cash to the Unsubscribed player . Limitations on the amount of characters created . Character looks become unlocks for cash . Every expansion becomes paid access .

Even when told those who elect to subscribe will get full access , the Gift shop model always ends up selling items that can't be found or aquired in game .

The player economy goes into shambles as crafted items become available though the gift shop model . More Cash for content .

Finally as someone mentioned , the flood of undesirable Facebook nay Sayers rush into the free community spouting their rubbish without consequence because if they get banned , they just make another free account with a new email .

You end up with more gold farmers and trouble every time as the community falls apart .

Free to play is a CASH Scam and will cost many way more in the end .

then why cant i find the "rings of mara" in eso?

You can . You can have mine lol

Vikestart

I think Buy to Play is a model that could work. The Secret World is running nicely with that model. You pay for the game once, then you can play forever, however, new content will be paywalled, and there has to be a basic Item Store.

Still, if ESO can avoid going B2P or F2P, that's definitely the best path. Any MMO that can sustain a subscription model should do so.

The company wil then have a much more predictable income and in return the players will have more predictable content release schedules.

Ackwalan

Probably the worse thing in 'market place' model is xp potions. When these start to be sold, you can expect the xp needed to level to increase while the xp earned to decrease.

Bloodystab

Ackwalan wrote: »

Probably the worse thing in 'market place' model is xp potions. When these start to be sold, you can expect the xp needed to level to increase while the xp earned to decrease.

Yeah, or "You need to wait 768 minutes to repeat daily Quest! or Click and buy Daily Unlocker." Wohoo im soo excited..

Vikestart

Bloodystab wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Probably the worse thing in 'market place' model is xp potions. When these start to be sold, you can expect the xp needed to level to increase while the xp earned to decrease.

Yeah, or "You need to wait 768 minutes to repeat daily Quest! or Click and buy Daily Unlocker." Wohoo im soo excited..

Yeah well, this really isn't much of a problem if you compare that with Pay-to-Win.

Paying for convenience is something I don't have a problem with.

But yes, the optimal path is keeping the subscription model. I'm just saying the sky wouldn't be falling with an Item Store that offers some XP potions and cooldown removers...

Things could be a lot worse than that.

Digiman

Playing a game that went from Pay to play to Free to play I can safely say the OP is wrong. While at most a F2P game is restrictive to non-subs it far better off then most pay to play ones.

F2P players couldn't wear or purchase epics with purple restriction use and gold limit (They could spend only 5000 out of their total amount of 1.5 mil) on higher priced items.

They were also limited from using chat, LFG, PVP, leveling etc. With the spam feature present in many MMO's gold sellers were easy to deal with especially with a mega server.

The plus for this was there were new players to add to the population and fill the roles needed that were lacking in areas of the game.

Honestly you can quit if the game goes F2P, I wouldn't blame you if the company gave us nothing for our loyalty after the change to a payment model. Most would give me credits I could save up and spend on visual appealing stuff like mounts and shiny armor (Not epic one shot gear).

But if your just quitting because your worried about the new influx of players who will most likely choose to play and eventually support it then your a bigger idiot then you think F2P players are and this gaming community might be better off with out you.

DDuke

Digiman wrote: »

Playing a game that went from Pay to play to Free to play I can safely say the OP is wrong. While at most a F2P game is restrictive to non-subs it far better off then most pay to play ones.

F2P players couldn't wear or purchase epics with purple restriction use and gold limit (They could spend only 5000 out of their total amount of 1.5 mil) on higher priced items.

They were also limited from using chat, LFG, PVP, leveling etc. With the spam feature present in many MMO's gold sellers were easy to deal with especially with a mega server.

The plus for this was there were new players to add to the population and fill the roles needed that were lacking in areas of the game.

Honestly you can quit if the game goes F2P, I wouldn't blame you if the company gave us nothing for our loyalty after the change to a payment model. Most would give me credits I could save up and spend on visual appealing stuff like mounts and shiny armor (Not epic one shot gear).

But if your just quitting because your worried about the new influx of players who will most likely choose to play and eventually support it then your a bigger idiot then you think F2P players are and this gaming community might be better off with out you.

To unlock the full game:
F2P=anywhere between 500$-5000$ on average, and keeps rising.
P2P=15$ a month

"Free" to play is essentially the corruption of video games.
You are rewarding people with fat wallets, instead of the skilled & dedicated players.
When someone who has spent thousands of hours playing the game has less than someone who's been playing it for two weeks, something is wrong, period.

Essentially, the corrupted "whales" carry all the freeloaders' worth of money, and get benefits for this. The game becomes a haven of the corrupt & the cheap, while the real gamers are left out in the cold.

You can argue all you want, it won't change the facts.

kevlarto_ESO

I have played many f2p games none of them worth playing even for free, I did the math on a couple of them for me to have a similar gaming experience that I have at 14.99 on the so called f2p games would have cost me 60 plus dollars a month, not much free there.

I think some of the f2p models like DDO are more of a pay as you go plan. Want to see some heavily monetized games look at TOR and STO, even though they offer a sub at TOR not even worth it they put almost nothing in game that you can play for, everything goes cartel packs. One of the big problems with f2p is stable cash flow over time yes it brings in a big hit at first and you can average it out over time, but in the long run it is hard to budget projects when you have no idea of how much cash is coming in.

I see no hints here at ESO of going f2p, it would require quite a bit of re doing the game, and it seems like they have a lot of stuff going on, I know if it did I am sure I would be gone. I am looking forward to the first paid expansion hope it is huge.

Elloa

Dracane wrote: »

I have never seen a F2P MMO, where I have to pay for PvP and dungeons (Haven't played many though)

Star Wars the Old Republic is a game where you have to pay for PVP, Dungeon and Raid. If you are a F2P player you have access to 3 battleground and 3 dungeon by week and zero raid. To access to them you either need to buy a subscription, or buy a pass.

Preyfar

WhiskyBob wrote: »

First of all F2P attracks all sorts of random kids that ruin the community. Also item shops usually ruin the game style with rainbow farting pony mounts.

You mean like the rainbow fairy dragon mounts from WOW?

HeroOfNone

F2P models work on MMOS that have recouped their development costs, have low server maintenance costs (usually from clustering various mmo titles and load blanching them), and have been setup with vanity stores to get a bit more profit on the return. To make folks think there is value in the game there will be expensive preorder or VIP packages that will give boosters, races, and items.

Realize though that all of this is smoke and mirrors to the reality: your game is made, it's story is done, the game may have a few changes to the numbers but not the mechanics of it.

Now, look at your subscription games; when they are active you are seeing new patches come out, new quests, new monsters. One of the reasons ESO can even accomplish 1.6 is the subscription money used to support the devs. You don't see new items in a cash store every day because the debs are working on new zones to explore to get that new item or motif. Past that, I doubt ESO could even support a F2P model, seeing how this is their only MMO they have and don't have a support system to keep it going without the consistent subscription base. Not to mention the conversion to a F2P would require an overhaul past the update we had in 1.6, and we see how long that took.

Honestly every one I see call out for it to be F2P seem like they want to play what we're playing but not pay for it, not realizing what has improved the game so much has been the subscription support.

You can have your cake or eat it, please choose

Pallmor

Want to be a former emperor without any effort? Want to win any PvP encounter? Want to complete every quest? Tired of the grind?

Well, for a limited time for only $1,000, you can buy our exclusive "I WIN!" button. Just press it to win ESO! Act now and we'll throw in the exclusive "I'm a winner!" armor set for free! Let the world know that you pwned Elder Scrolls Online!

SlayerSyrena

I already knew f2p was bad, but after reading this post, it sounds like a nightmare and I now know I could never afford it.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

roechacca wrote: »

The free to play business model is a ruse . F2P always ends up costing more to the subscribers that want full game acces .

You have to pay for access to areas such as pvp zones and Dungeons . Player housing , more storage or bank vaults become unlocks for cash . Level restrictions mean more cash to the Unsubscribed player . Limitations on the amount of characters created . Character looks become unlocks for cash . Every expansion becomes paid access .

Even when told those who elect to subscribe will get full access , the Gift shop model always ends up selling items that can't be found or aquired in game .

The player economy goes into shambles as crafted items become available though the gift shop model . More Cash for content .

Finally as someone mentioned , the flood of undesirable Facebook nay Sayers rush into the free community spouting their rubbish without consequence because if they get banned , they just make another free account with a new email .

You end up with more gold farmers and trouble every time as the community falls apart .

Free to play is a CASH Scam and will cost many way more in the end .

F2P is a dishonest model and it just doesn't work for anyone but greedy ass suits preying on simple minded people. That said there are a hundred and one other reasons why I will NEVER play a f2p game again, I quit Rift and GW2 solely because of their f2p models.

Elsonso

This is an interesting discussion, the free to play stuff and all permutations, but it is mostly academic.

I like reading what people might like to see in a subscriptions ESO and how the game might change.

I can say, without any reservation, that I would leave if it happened. This is because the actual probability of them doing this in 2015 has turned out to be so small that if they did, the financial state of ZOS would be far worse than anything we have discussed so far. I would leave because the game would be dead, not just in trouble.

Sure, there is a non-zero probability, but so many other things are more likely.

Keiffo

If ESO goes F2P I'll quit on the spot and never look back.

Darkrogue671

WhiskyBob wrote: »

First of all F2P attracks all sorts of random kids that ruin the community. Also item shops usually ruin the game style with rainbow farting pony mounts.

I had to laugh when I saw your post. I have 2 daughters (8 & 6) and after seeing my Imperial steed for the first time, my youngest exclaimed with excitement, "Daddy! You should get Rainbow Dash!"

You are sooooooo right!

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Keiffo wrote: »

If ESO goes F2P I'll quit on the spot and never look back.

Yep, me too. Some things they could do that wouldn't make me quit though are.

1) Allow players to buy subscription time through me for say 250k gold a month maybe more.

2) Open up the cash shop some more, unique armour for horses, more pack space maybe a Provisioner pack or something, I would love that and buy buy buy.

3) Increase the subscription amount to 20/mo with the promise of increased performance.

In fact I would welcome any of these options, but f2p and I'm gonzo.

WhiskyBob

Free To Play also is an excuse for not adding content. Just throw 20$ hats into the store and call it a major update.

Wing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U

extra credits on F2P

redspecter23

Vikestart wrote: »

Bloodystab wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Probably the worse thing in 'market place' model is xp potions. When these start to be sold, you can expect the xp needed to level to increase while the xp earned to decrease.

Yeah, or "You need to wait 768 minutes to repeat daily Quest! or Click and buy Daily Unlocker." Wohoo im soo excited..

Yeah well, this really isn't much of a problem if you compare that with Pay-to-Win.

Paying for convenience is something I don't have a problem with.

But yes, the optimal path is keeping the subscription model. I'm just saying the sky wouldn't be falling with an Item Store that offers some XP potions and cooldown removers...

Things could be a lot worse than that.

The problem with pay for convenience is that the designers intentionally design "inconvenience" into the game that wasn't there before. At that point you're not paying for convenience. You're paying to get back to where you were before, but it's disguised as a bonus. In fact you're paying to get back to normal levels. You see this when a game lowers the xp but then sells you back the xp in form of pots. Or they add more daily quests when they weren't the norm previously then sell you the ability to replay them faster.

Wing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CbWr0zO7Ac

and south park on freemium

crislevin

Here is why you want eso to be f2p:

So the game don't die.

You can write gazillion of posts, it will all comes down to the profit. So spare us.

Jamesbr1b14_ESO

F2P = me cutting bait and leaving. EVERY other MMO that I've played that went F2P turned into a ***-show and I left within days/weeks after all of them changed over. The community suffered. Game play suffered. Game support suffered. There was NOTHING beneficial to me that kept me around, even in the games that I had a "lifetime" sub to. It was too painful to bother supporting the game any longer. I'm not even talking about the cost to me (that was immaterial!), it was the ancillary garbage that came with it that put me off F2P forever.
Mark my words ESO... I'm out the moment you implement it!!!

RainfeatherUK

I could say alot about the games I've played over the years;

How the F2P transitions ruined them or how the budget never quite stretched 'enough'.

How people would drop 8 thousand dollars just to be ahead in ''pay2win'' or even how gw2 falls flat because, well, it took so damn long to innovate with such little money that the pvp dreams of nearly 40 thousand tourney team players like myself, crumbled to dust over night.

But it wouldnt really matter. Because you'd have to be there. To see how it feels for yourself.

ESO isnt a game that will survive F2P. Random chance income vs box sales and a sub, it just isnt going to happen. The quality drop would be so large, it would make an atomic bomb blush.

The future aims, systems, quality and continued innovation (since its the creation of totally new things that really tests the budget) sets ESO appart from many of its competitors.

Those arent just things it has - but things it needs to continue to develop to become a good game.

The sum of all those parts combined is a huge financial toll.

Nothing short of P2P can meet that demand.

RainfeatherUK

Double post - Please Delete.