How do you earn the title of Legate in the Alliance War?

Aeratus

Hanokihs wrote: »

I think there should be multiple ways of getting these colors, especially rarer ones. There's a whole crafting system designed for making things - why can't we decon and research armor/weapon hues?

I get that there should be SOME reward for achievements other than "well, you achieved something. Here's a check-mark." But I'm more than willing to level my alchemy and smithing/clothing/woodworking to 50 in order to get access to dye if it means I can avoid pvp.

Ugh that's not a good comparison. Getting crafting to 50 is easy. You can farm enough mats to level crafting to 50 in a single day. On the other hand, getting to legate probably requires 1500+ hours played in PVP.

MornaBaine

Aeratus wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

I think there should be multiple ways of getting these colors, especially rarer ones. There's a whole crafting system designed for making things - why can't we decon and research armor/weapon hues?

I get that there should be SOME reward for achievements other than "well, you achieved something. Here's a check-mark." But I'm more than willing to level my alchemy and smithing/clothing/woodworking to 50 in order to get access to dye if it means I can avoid pvp.

Ugh that's not a good comparison. Getting crafting to 50 is easy. You can farm enough mats to level crafting to 50 in a single day. On the other hand, getting to legate probably requires 1500+ hours played in PVP.

That's not true of all crafts. Those that require you to research traits will take you a LOT longer to truly master, whether you are at level 50 in them or not. So they could easily make a dye an achievement like so: Bakers Licorice Black: Achieve level 50 in Provisioning, make 20 servings each of the following 3 Purple Recipes (recipes being, for example, Vet 5 Purple Recipes). THAT would not be an easy achievement by any means.
OR:
Clothier's Royal Purple Silk: Make a complete (5 pieces) set of Seducer Light Armor in the Imperial Style improved to Legendary Quality.

Neither of the above things are anything you are going to accomplish in a day starting your crafting profession. There should totally be Dyes associated with crafting. It would encourage more people TO craft just as tying dyes to PvP achievements encourages people to engage in PvP...even when they would otherwise prefer not to.

Hanokihs

Aeratus wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

I think there should be multiple ways of getting these colors, especially rarer ones. There's a whole crafting system designed for making things - why can't we decon and research armor/weapon hues?

I get that there should be SOME reward for achievements other than "well, you achieved something. Here's a check-mark." But I'm more than willing to level my alchemy and smithing/clothing/woodworking to 50 in order to get access to dye if it means I can avoid pvp.

Ugh that's not a good comparison. Getting crafting to 50 is easy. You can farm enough mats to level crafting to 50 in a single day. On the other hand, getting to legate probably requires 1500+ hours played in PVP.

Okay, so make "unlock 8 traits in all items" part of the requirement. Wanna have Black-Black as a color for your light armor pants? Start researching light gear, then. You want your sword's hilt to be the Ultimate Blue? Have fun brushing up on the research for all your weapons, because you need to know these items inside and out before you get to dabble in something silly like "colors." They could even tie it to Crafting Writs.

The point is, if a dye that I want is linked to some sort of tedious task, it may as well be linked to more than one. And in terms of immersion, there's no reason killing oodles of people should allow me to dye my armor black. Or orange. Blue. Lime green. Whatever, it doesn't matter. I get that they want achievements to mean something, but dye isn't a very good reward anyway. "You've murdered millions! Here's a crayon!" That's basically what the game is telling people who've gotten the achievement. Why not tie achievements to armor sets that are relevant to the achievement, instead, and let dyes be somehow connected to crafting? At least then, it'd make sense.

Subtomik

The best dyes are PVP related because they actually take work lol.

Legate takes a lot of dedication to get, I saw someone celebrating in zone about hitting rank 24 and that seems like it was a year ago lol.

MornaBaine

Hanokihs wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

I think there should be multiple ways of getting these colors, especially rarer ones. There's a whole crafting system designed for making things - why can't we decon and research armor/weapon hues?

I get that there should be SOME reward for achievements other than "well, you achieved something. Here's a check-mark." But I'm more than willing to level my alchemy and smithing/clothing/woodworking to 50 in order to get access to dye if it means I can avoid pvp.

Ugh that's not a good comparison. Getting crafting to 50 is easy. You can farm enough mats to level crafting to 50 in a single day. On the other hand, getting to legate probably requires 1500+ hours played in PVP.

Okay, so make "unlock 8 traits in all items" part of the requirement. Wanna have Black-Black as a color for your light armor pants? Start researching light gear, then. You want your sword's hilt to be the Ultimate Blue? Have fun brushing up on the research for all your weapons, because you need to know these items inside and out before you get to dabble in something silly like "colors." They could even tie it to Crafting Writs.

The point is, if a dye that I want is linked to some sort of tedious task, it may as well be linked to more than one. And in terms of immersion, there's no reason killing oodles of people should allow me to dye my armor black. Or orange. Blue. Lime green. Whatever, it doesn't matter. I get that they want achievements to mean something, but dye isn't a very good reward anyway. "You've murdered millions! Here's a crayon!" That's basically what the game is telling people who've gotten the achievement. Why not tie achievements to armor sets that are relevant to the achievement, instead, and let dyes be somehow connected to crafting? At least then, it'd make sense.

Could not agree with you more. Seriously, this was a stupid idea on ZOS's part to begin with. All of the achievements should have a cool unique item associated with them...not a Dye.

MornaBaine

Subtomik wrote: »

The best dyes are PVP related because they actually take work lol.

Legate takes a lot of dedication to get, I saw someone celebrating in zone about hitting rank 24 and that seems like it was a year ago lol.

I understand that achieving Legate is a lot of work. And it should totally come with an awesome reward...like special armor. Giving a DYE for managing that is actually incredibly paltry. Insulting even.

Subtomik

MornaBaine wrote: »

I understand that achieving Legate is a lot of work. And it should totally come with an awesome reward...like special armor. Giving a DYE for managing that is actually incredibly paltry. Insulting even.

That's the life of a pvper, we get nothing for our time spent, the gear rewards are horrible for the most part, and aside from dyes and titles and an occasional skill point there is no reward other than the actual pvp experience to reward you.

Valencer

Guys, guys. Did you know there's multiple black dyes?

You can unlock others by doing easier things like becoming a vampire (Noxophilic Black), deconstructing items (Obsidian Black) and completing a couple of quests in Grahtwood (Thalmor Black). That's just 3 of them off the top of my head.

The system is accessible enough. No need to claim it's flawed or anything just because you're angry you can't get a particular dye easily.

Blud

Samadhi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

...To level in this game you HAVE to play the PvE content. ...

This has been my biggest complaint about this game since launch to be honest.

It was supposed to be possible to play entirely as a PvP player, then they nerfed PvP exp right at launch and railroaded players into PvE content.

I agree. I thought ESO was going to be a new and better DAoC.

Blud

Lionxoft wrote: »

You gain legate by zerg balling... A lot of zerg balling.

Hanokihs

Valencer wrote: »

Guys, guys. Did you know there's multiple black dyes?

You can unlock others by doing easier things like becoming a vampire (Noxophilic Black), deconstructing items (Obsidian Black) and completing a couple of quests in Grahtwood (Thalmor Black). That's just 3 of them off the top of my head.

The system is accessible enough. No need to claim it's flawed or anything just because you're angry you can't get a particular dye easily.

We know, and we also know we're not always happy with the easy ones. On a related note, the easier ones are usually worse-looking. It's not like these are trophies or titles or gear. It's colors. Palette-swapping. Why not give PVPers something worth their time, and give people who like cosmetic changes a way to unlock them that's actually, you know, sensible? Who would actually be upset if armor dyes were easier to obtain? What system would it ruin?

In this case, I'm more angry for the PVP players who get spit on when they do something that is, as I've just learned from this thread, stupidly difficult. Good grief, give the poor people something useful for their time and effort! Even if they enjoyed every moment of it. War ranks are absolutely nuts.

AlexDougherty

Merlight wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

This is part of character customization and should in no way be something we have to struggle for...

Can we have a Disagree button?

No, it was being abused so they removed it.

Valencer

Are the other black dyes worse looking? Have you compared them?

I don't have the Legate dye, so I can't compare them, but most of the black dyes I do have are very similar (except for Coldharbour Ash Black) so I'd be surprised if the Legate Black was that different.

I can understand the dye might be underwhelming as a PvP reward but it's nice that every playstyle has its' own dyes to unlock. Gives people an incentive to step out of their comfort zone and try something new.

I don't think PvPers are that interested in getting the timed achievements for trials either. It works both ways.

Hanokihs

Valencer wrote: »

Are the other black dyes worse looking? Have you compared them?

I don't have the Legate dye, so I can't compare them, but most of the black dyes I do have are very similar (except for Coldharbour Ash Black) so I'd be surprised if the Legate Black was that different.

I can understand the dye might be underwhelming as a PvP reward but it's nice that every playstyle has its' own dyes to unlock. Gives people an incentive to step out of their comfort zone and try something new.

I don't think PvPers are that interested in getting the timed achievements for trials either. It works both ways.

Yeah, going by the swatches and the larger color comparisons on ESO Fashion, Legate's Black is the "blackest black" followed by Thalmor and Noxophilic Blacks which are gray, and Coldharbour Ash Black, which is more brown. Maormer-Eyes Gray is dark, but it's not quite black - it's off, somehow (maybe a very deep greenish?), in the way that Stendarr White is less "white" and more of a very pale/bright blue.

To most people, this is just a bunch of petty quibbling, but everyone has aspects of the game they take too seriously. For people like the OP and myself, this just happens to be one of them.

Anyway, just because people are potentially unhappy on both sides of the fence, it doesn't mean that's how things should be. This may be something of a broad stroke, but wouldn't it be great if achievements were tied to things that made the experience better for people who bother to get them? PVPers can get things that benefit PVP, crafters can get things that benefit their craft, PVEers can get stuff that benefits PVE... Maybe if some random devs just happen to be strolling by, they may skim over this bit and consider it for some future features. *nudge, nudge*

MornaBaine

Hanokihs wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Are the other black dyes worse looking? Have you compared them?

I don't have the Legate dye, so I can't compare them, but most of the black dyes I do have are very similar (except for Coldharbour Ash Black) so I'd be surprised if the Legate Black was that different.

I can understand the dye might be underwhelming as a PvP reward but it's nice that every playstyle has its' own dyes to unlock. Gives people an incentive to step out of their comfort zone and try something new.

I don't think PvPers are that interested in getting the timed achievements for trials either. It works both ways.

Yeah, going by the swatches and the larger color comparisons on ESO Fashion, Legate's Black is the "blackest black" followed by Thalmor and Noxophilic Blacks which are gray, and Coldharbour Ash Black, which is more brown. Maormer-Eyes Gray is dark, but it's not quite black - it's off, somehow (maybe a very deep greenish?), in the way that Stendarr White is less "white" and more of a very pale/bright blue.

To most people, this is just a bunch of petty quibbling, but everyone has aspects of the game they take too seriously. For people like the OP and myself, this just happens to be one of them.

Anyway, just because people are potentially unhappy on both sides of the fence, it doesn't mean that's how things should be. This may be something of a broad stroke, but wouldn't it be great if achievements were tied to things that made the experience better for people who bother to get them? PVPers can get things that benefit PVP, crafters can get things that benefit their craft, PVEers can get stuff that benefits PVE... Maybe if some random devs just happen to be strolling by, they may skim over this bit and consider it for some future features. *nudge, nudge*

Oh so all of this! Dyes are part of character customization and since they've given us precious little in the way of character customization post creation then YES these colors need to be at least REASONABLY accessible to everyone. ALL of the black dyes under discussion are different. Do I "need" them all? Nope...just the one I can't have. Look at ALL the reds at some point. MOST of the accessible ones are not actually red at all. They're usually some rusty brown color. The one you can get easily just by doing the content you would do anyway that IS red is still a dull red. There are no vibrant colors that are easily accessible. Why should that be?

The achievement system itself is terrible. Most of the achievements give you NOTHING outside of a flashing title on your screen for a moment when you get it. The only thing you DO get for achievements are dyes. WHY? If they WANT us to do the content that results in achievements then they darn well need to give REAL rewards for those achievements. As Hanokihs says, PvP achievements should give out something actually related to PvP. Ditto PvE achievements. Some should give us fluff like unique pets and costumes. But you should get SOMETHING for each and every one of them. IF they are going to insist on linking dyes to them then they need to have a specific dye for EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM. And even then, they need to loosen up on this exclusive color business. It's cheap and petty the way it is now. And it ticks off way more people than it pleases.

Darlgon

Hanokihs wrote: »

Anyway, just because people are potentially unhappy on both sides of the fence, it doesn't mean that's how things should be. This may be something of a broad stroke, but wouldn't it be great if achievements were tied to things that made the experience better for people who bother to get them? PVPers can get things that benefit PVP, crafters can get things that benefit their craft, PVEers can get stuff that benefits PVE... Maybe if some random devs just happen to be strolling by, they may skim over this bit and consider it for some future features. *nudge, nudge*

I am perfectly fine with rarer dyes being tied to achievements, Thank you very much. They dont take up bag space or get unusable when I level up.

MornaBaine

Darlgon wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

Anyway, just because people are potentially unhappy on both sides of the fence, it doesn't mean that's how things should be. This may be something of a broad stroke, but wouldn't it be great if achievements were tied to things that made the experience better for people who bother to get them? PVPers can get things that benefit PVP, crafters can get things that benefit their craft, PVEers can get stuff that benefits PVE... Maybe if some random devs just happen to be strolling by, they may skim over this bit and consider it for some future features. *nudge, nudge*

I am perfectly fine with rarer dyes being tied to achievements, Thank you very much. They dont take up bag space or get unusable when I level up.

They are fixing the problem of trophy storage space. Pets and costumes will be able to go there as well.

Lionxoft

Subtomik wrote: »

The best dyes are PVP related because they actually take time lol.
[snip]

Fixed it for you. PvP is not work but it does require a lot of time and usually that time is spent in a zerg.

Lionxoft

Subtomik wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I understand that achieving Legate is a lot of work. And it should totally come with an awesome reward...like special armor. Giving a DYE for managing that is actually incredibly paltry. Insulting even.

That's the life of a pvper, we get nothing for our time spent, the gear rewards are horrible for the most part, and aside from dyes and titles and an occasional skill point there is no reward other than the actual pvp experience to reward you.

But.... But.... Facial animations! The resource allocation and budgeting for this game is ridiculous.

MornaBaine

Lionxoft wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I understand that achieving Legate is a lot of work. And it should totally come with an awesome reward...like special armor. Giving a DYE for managing that is actually incredibly paltry. Insulting even.

That's the life of a pvper, we get nothing for our time spent, the gear rewards are horrible for the most part, and aside from dyes and titles and an occasional skill point there is no reward other than the actual pvp experience to reward you.

But.... But.... Facial animations! The resource allocation and budgeting for this game is ridiculous.

Actually OUR characters now have NO facial animations. Yes, somewhere along the line while they were working so hard on improving the facial animations of NPCs (which now give us the utterly insane buggy eyed facial animation on MANY NPCs) they actually managed to REMOVE all facial expressions from PLAYER CHARACTERS. Used to be if you did/no your character thereafter maintained an angry/severe expression. If you used /yes they got a happy smiling expression. /shrug returned them to a neutral expression. No longer. We are now all stone faced killers and ZOS won't even talk about it...let alone let us know if they are working on fixing it.

Valencer

Well, I personally think the dye system is great the way it is. I guess it's hard to please everyone.

Just try to remember that there's a LOT of dyes and just because you can't get every single one of them easily by just doing PvE or PvP exclusively doesn't mean the system is flawed, broken or whatever.

OrangeTheCat

Lionxoft wrote: »

You gain legate by zerg balling... A lot of zerg balling.

Only if you rolled EP.

<hides>

Zorrashi

MornaBaine wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The best dyes are PVP related because they actually take work lol.

Legate takes a lot of dedication to get, I saw someone celebrating in zone about hitting rank 24 and that seems like it was a year ago lol.

I understand that achieving Legate is a lot of work. And it should totally come with an awesome reward...like special armor. Giving a DYE for managing that is actually incredibly paltry. Insulting even.

But black is such a highly sought after color.......a special color.....a rare color....

Seems like a reward to me.

MornaBaine

Zorrashi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The best dyes are PVP related because they actually take work lol.

Legate takes a lot of dedication to get, I saw someone celebrating in zone about hitting rank 24 and that seems like it was a year ago lol.

I understand that achieving Legate is a lot of work. And it should totally come with an awesome reward...like special armor. Giving a DYE for managing that is actually incredibly paltry. Insulting even.

But black is such a highly sought after color.......a special color.....a rare color....

Seems like a reward to me.

But a completely nonsensical one.

Zorrashi

MornaBaine wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The best dyes are PVP related because they actually take work lol.

Legate takes a lot of dedication to get, I saw someone celebrating in zone about hitting rank 24 and that seems like it was a year ago lol.

I understand that achieving Legate is a lot of work. And it should totally come with an awesome reward...like special armor. Giving a DYE for managing that is actually incredibly paltry. Insulting even.

But black is such a highly sought after color.......a special color.....a rare color....

Seems like a reward to me.

But a completely nonsensical one.

An achievement usually means the attainment of a dye in the current system. One that was partially implemented in order to encourage players to try out new content (not that colors means that much to many players).

Given that premise, it makes sense that one of the most highly sought after colors is given to a high-class achievement. Other similar, albeit, not quite the same shade black include Coldharbor Ash Black and Noxophillic Black. Is it really that important for you to have that particular shade? Ash black is actually pretty dark and is among the darkest of the blacks (but then again, maybe you are trying it on light armor or something?).

It would be pretty weird if the dye rewarded for legate was more like fighter's guild red or something instead.

MornaBaine

Zorrashi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The best dyes are PVP related because they actually take work lol.

Legate takes a lot of dedication to get, I saw someone celebrating in zone about hitting rank 24 and that seems like it was a year ago lol.

I understand that achieving Legate is a lot of work. And it should totally come with an awesome reward...like special armor. Giving a DYE for managing that is actually incredibly paltry. Insulting even.

But black is such a highly sought after color.......a special color.....a rare color....

Seems like a reward to me.

But a completely nonsensical one.

An achievement usually means the attainment of a dye in the current system. One that was partially implemented in order to encourage players to try out new content (not that colors means that much to many players).

Given that premise, it makes sense that one of the most highly sought after colors is given to a high-class achievement. Other similar, albeit, not quite the same shade black include Coldharbor Ash Black and Noxophillic Black. Is it really that important for you to have that particular shade? Ash black is actually pretty dark and is among the darkest of the blacks (but then again, maybe you are trying it on light armor or something?).

It would be pretty weird if the dye rewarded for legate was more like fighter's guild red or something instead.

YES, actually it IS that important to me to have the Legate's Black. If you read through this still pretty short thread you might have noticed that I explained that the other blacks, most of which are dull and some of which are not black at all but are, instead, GRAY. The Legate's Black is a gorgeous DEEP blue-black, MARKEDLY different from the Coldharbor Black. And there's no logical reason for it to be made impossible for me to get merely because of my preferred playstyle which is very light on PvP.

Reverb

Edit - good white dyes have been harder for me to come by than greys and blacks.

Darlgon

MornaBaine wrote: »

YES, actually it IS that important to me to have the Legate's Black. If you read through this still pretty short thread you might have noticed that I explained that the other blacks, most of which are dull and some of which are not black at all but are, instead, GRAY. The Legate's Black is a gorgeous DEEP blue-black, MARKEDLY different from the Coldharbor Black. And there's no logical reason for it to be made impossible for me to get merely because of my preferred playstyle which is very light on PvP.

Sound to me like you either have incentive to change your preferred playstyle or give up on getting that color. Your choice, not ours.

MornaBaine

Darlgon wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

YES, actually it IS that important to me to have the Legate's Black. If you read through this still pretty short thread you might have noticed that I explained that the other blacks, most of which are dull and some of which are not black at all but are, instead, GRAY. The Legate's Black is a gorgeous DEEP blue-black, MARKEDLY different from the Coldharbor Black. And there's no logical reason for it to be made impossible for me to get merely because of my preferred playstyle which is very light on PvP.

Sound to me like you either have incentive to change your preferred playstyle or give up on getting that color. Your choice, not ours.

OR I and those who feel the same way can lobby ZOS for change. Indeed, changes that would BENEFIT PvPers who would probably appreciate getting something more meaningful than a dye when they accomplish some of those insanely difficult PvP achievements.

Darlgon

MornaBaine wrote: »

OR I and those who feel the same way can lobby ZOS for change. Indeed, changes that would BENEFIT PvPers who would probably appreciate getting something more meaningful than a dye when they accomplish some of those insanely difficult PvP achievements.

You obviously never had to kill 1500 Angmar men in Lotro to get one skill point. But, yeah.. You can indeed whine to ZoS, just dont expect everyone to agree with you.