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How about... remove classes (make all skill lines available to everybody)
Peteris
✭✭
Well... subj.
It would be nice to get rid of mechanism that has no place in elder scroll games (never had and never will) - classes. Just make all class lines available to everybody.
BTW - it might surprise you in form of people loosing reason to complain about OP classes as they will have access to same skills and will be able take whatever damn OP skill they like.
It would be nice to get rid of mechanism that has no place in elder scroll games (never had and never will) - classes. Just make all class lines available to everybody.
BTW - it might surprise you in form of people loosing reason to complain about OP classes as they will have access to same skills and will be able take whatever damn OP skill they like.
28
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ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭Such an original thread!
Use the search function, this has been discussed to death over and over.15 -
Peteris✭✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Such an original thread!
Use the search function, this has been discussed to death over and over.
Obviously not enough since that has not been done.
And although I am grateful for your wise advice you are missing point for making this thread.18 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I woke up this morning and decided to make a suggestion that has 0% chance of ever happening.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)13 -
morvegil✭✭✭✭Yes, I want to be a NB with Reflective scales
Lo'ke
Nord Vampire
Nightblade
Shield+BOW
Daggerfall CovenantBandit KingBridge Bandits Guild2 -
dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So basically, you want everyone to be a DK, because that's 99% of the skills that everyone would be loading onto their bar. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would have the exact same cookie cutter build and skills in PvP. How fun....7 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Such an original thread!
Use the search function, this has been discussed to death over and over.
Obviously not enough since that has not been done.
And although I am grateful for your wise advice you are missing point for making this thread.
Some of us like the classes, they give each character a feel that just selecting your skills from any skill-line you like wouldn't. In fact if we could just select any skill, then we would have far fewer builds than we do right now, because the optimal skills for tank, healer and dps are pretty well known.
@ThatHappyCat is right, this subject has been discussed past the point that anyone will say anything new, it's been talked to death. Just because a subject has been discussed doesn't mean the discussions went the way you think.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule5 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭Indeed. You should read through past discussions about this topic and make a new thread (or necro an old one) if you have something new to add. If you don't have anything new to add, well there really isn't much point in beating a dead horse.4
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thelordoffelines✭✭✭✭✭If everyone had access to all skills, then everyone would use scales with bolt escape and templar heals to keep themself alive. It would be the most OP thing ever. Now in single player games no one cares what's OP. But here it matters.6
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CreepySpydre✭✭✭What I would like to see is the removal of this annoying triad (meat shield, dps, healer) group set up. Where a number of people can group and do a instance without the annoyance of who is tanking dpsing or healing.3
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ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭CreepySpydre wrote: »What I would like to see is the removal of this annoying triad (meat shield, dps, healer) group set up. Where a number of people can group and do a instance without the annoyance of who is tanking dpsing or healing.
GW2 did this. It was horrible.
The trinity works. If you want to get rid of the trinity you would need to find another system to replace it, having no system at all results in basically everyone doing their own thing with absolutely zero coordination or teamwork required.7 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭Giving everyone access to all the class moves at once would be a disaster; if people are crying "nerf" NOW, just imagine how useless all the attacks/heals would have to be in order to keep everything some semblance of balanced. Ugh, total nightmare.
If anything, I'd like the ability to change classes, but only a limited number of times. Something like, at Cadwell's Silver, you get 2 class tokens - you can use each one to switch classes once (so if you don't like what you pick, you can pick something else or switch back to what you had). At Gold, same thing - 2 tokens. If you squander them, you're finished; end of the line. (I'd even say make them character-bound, so there's no gaming the system)."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.1 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭Or just level an Alt... once Vet levels are removed it won't take very long anyway.2
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Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Or just level an Alt... once Vet levels are removed it won't take very long anyway.
Always an option, but once you play what's essentially the same character 3-4 times, the game turns less "game" and more "boring, tedious job." Opening up other classes would make things less annoying overall (but I doubt they'll ever do it)."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.1 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭CreepySpydre wrote: »What I would like to see is the removal of this annoying triad (meat shield, dps, healer) group set up. Where a number of people can group and do a instance without the annoyance of who is tanking dpsing or healing.
You can actually do this in ESO for a lot of the dungeons (not all), but it requires a certain degree of coordination. Seen plenty of groups succeed without a dedicated healer or tank.
Tank, Healer, 2x DPS is done so often because a convention like that makes it easier for unorganized PUGs to succeed.
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Ommamar✭✭✭✭Well... subj.
It would be nice to get rid of mechanism that has no place in elder scroll games (never had and never will) - classes. Just make all class lines available to everybody.
BTW - it might surprise you in form of people loosing reason to complain about OP classes as they will have access to same skills and will be able take whatever damn OP skill they like.
Up until Skyrim there where template classes and after Arena a custom class where you choice which ten skills you would start with. There was still "classes" in Skyrim you just developed them as you went along.
With the advent of the Champion system and coming "soon" spell crafting the class roles will become more spread out resulting in more diverse builds.2 -
WhiskyBob✭✭✭✭✭Well... subj.
It would be nice to get rid of mechanism that has no place in elder scroll games (never had and never will) - classes. Just make all class lines available to everybody.
BTW - it might surprise you in form of people loosing reason to complain about OP classes as they will have access to same skills and will be able take whatever damn OP skill they like.
Up until Skyrim there where template classes and after Arena a custom class where you choice which ten skills you would start with. There was still "classes" in Skyrim you just developed them as you went along.
With the advent of the Champion system and coming "soon" spell crafting the class roles will become more spread out resulting in more diverse builds.
Where do you people get this "spellcrafting" thing? As far as I know spellcrafting is somewhere in the dumpster between half eaten bana and community tears.4 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Such an original thread!
Use the search function, this has been discussed to death over and over.
Obviously not enough since that has not been done.
And although I am grateful for your wise advice you are missing point for making this thread.
Wait you think that something gets done if there's enough threads about the topic?
Noooooooooooooo
Just because a small handful of people are all "klasses R dum, tkae them way!" doesn't mean it'll work in an MMO format.
This game is unlike any ES game ever made, or ever to be made for that matter. You can't quote prior games as evidence to prove your desire.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT1 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would probably end up being very bad.
almost everyone in PvP will be Bolt escaping, talon, reflective scale, green dragonblood, sun shield, invis spammingEdited by bosmern_ESO on December 29, 2014 1:12AM~Thallen~1 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭no just no.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain2 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭Well... subj.
It would be nice to get rid of mechanism that has no place in elder scroll games (never had and never will) - classes. Just make all class lines available to everybody.
BTW - it might surprise you in form of people loosing reason to complain about OP classes as they will have access to same skills and will be able take whatever damn OP skill they like.
Up until Skyrim there where template classes and after Arena a custom class where you choice which ten skills you would start with. There was still "classes" in Skyrim you just developed them as you went along.
With the advent of the Champion system and coming "soon" spell crafting the class roles will become more spread out resulting in more diverse builds.
Where do you people get this "spellcrafting" thing? As far as I know spellcrafting is somewhere in the dumpster between half eaten bana and community tears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LkeMacg-b0
Spell crafting is 40-50 minutes in.
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drschplatt✭✭✭✭I could dig the idea in part. Maybe make it so that you could change skill lines easily enough but not mix and match them 100%? Maybe some skill point handicap if you mix and match skill lines? 1 point per skill if you build one line, but for every skill you choose outside of your skill line it costs 3?
That would make people choose between specializing or taking a hit in order to spread things out.Foräois - Imperial Sorcerer of Ineptitude.
Widoch - Nord Dragon Knight of Ignorance.
Billy Bob - Dunmer Templar of Chicken and Noodles.
Blades of Vengeance0 -
Hortator Mopa✭✭✭✭Well... subj.
It would be nice to get rid of mechanism that has no place in elder scroll games (never had and never will) - classes. Just make all class lines available to everybody.
BTW - it might surprise you in form of people loosing reason to complain about OP classes as they will have access to same skills and will be able take whatever damn OP skill they like.
You are right, there are classes that are stupidly stronger then others however this is a mmo.0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well... subj.
It would be nice to get rid of mechanism that has no place in elder scroll games (never had and never will) - classes. Just make all class lines available to everybody.
BTW - it might surprise you in form of people loosing reason to complain about OP classes as they will have access to same skills and will be able take whatever damn OP skill they like.
Up until Skyrim there where template classes and after Arena a custom class where you choice which ten skills you would start with. There was still "classes" in Skyrim you just developed them as you went along.
With the advent of the Champion system and coming "soon" spell crafting the class roles will become more spread out resulting in more diverse builds.
Where do you people get this "spellcrafting" thing? As far as I know spellcrafting is somewhere in the dumpster between half eaten bana and community tears.
It was announced at Quake con and ZoS has confirmed it for 2015.
~Thallen~0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭So basically, you want everyone to be a DK, because that's 99% of the skills that everyone would be loading onto their bar. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would have the exact same cookie cutter build and skills in PvP. How fun....
and thats the point. Shows how well balanced the game is if "everyone" would pack DK skills.
The difference is everyone can now be OP....balance is restored
Should ZOS actually feel the need to balance all skills....then one would not be favoured over another. It would just come down to visual preference or playstyle preference.
Of course you cant balance skills if there is only positive and no negative.
All people do now is choose which positives to stack.Edited by Rune_Relic on December 29, 2014 12:10PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »So basically, you want everyone to be a DK, because that's 99% of the skills that everyone would be loading onto their bar. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would have the exact same cookie cutter build and skills in PvP. How fun....
and thats the point. Shows how well balanced the game is if "everyone" would pack DK skills.
The difference is everyone can now be OP....balance is restored
Should ZOS actually feel the need to balance all skills....then one would not be favoured over another. It would just come down to visual preference or playstyle preference.
Of course you cant balance skills if there is only positive and no negative.
Classes allow you to have strong skills and weak skills. It allows you to balance packages of skills as a whole, instead of having to balance every single skill by itself against every other skill; resulting in homogeneity.
People seem to be operating under the delusion that a classless system produces diversity. It doesn't, it kills it. While too much restriction isn't good, some restriction is required to promote diversity and balance.
In a single player game, which TES has traditionally been, diversity is not important because as far as you're concerned there is only ever one character, one build. Balance likewise is not a huge concern. But ESO is an MMO, and in MMO-land diversity and balance are everything.2 -
GreyBrow✭✭✭✭So basically, you want everyone to be a DK, because that's 99% of the skills that everyone would be loading onto their bar. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would have the exact same cookie cutter build and skills in PvP. How fun....
You ever play COD, the most popular online game ever that made tons and tons and tons of cash?
LMAO if you think this would not bring in heaps of players.
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Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »So basically, you want everyone to be a DK, because that's 99% of the skills that everyone would be loading onto their bar. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would have the exact same cookie cutter build and skills in PvP. How fun....
and thats the point. Shows how well balanced the game is if "everyone" would pack DK skills.
The difference is everyone can now be OP....balance is restored
Should ZOS actually feel the need to balance all skills....then one would not be favoured over another. It would just come down to visual preference or playstyle preference.
Of course you cant balance skills if there is only positive and no negative.
Classes allow you to have strong skills and weak skills. It allows you to balance packages of skills as a whole, instead of having to balance every single skill by itself against every other skill; resulting in homogeneity.
People seem to be operating under the delusion that a classless system produces diversity. It doesn't, it kills it. While too much restriction isn't good, some restriction is required to promote diversity and balance.
In a single player game, which TES has traditionally been, diversity is not important because as far as you're concerned there is only ever one character, one build. Balance likewise is not a huge concern. But ESO is an MMO, and in MMO-land diversity and balance are everything.
...and everyone ignores the weak skills. Hence ZOS making them more meaningful in 1.6
A classless system could lead to FOTM builds..yes. I give you that.
But a class system gives you 4x FOTM builds ...one of which is always OP.
FOTM vs Balance.
Personally I would rather have balance....then try to fix any FOTM issues rather than have OP class builds that are forever unbalanced.
Of course FOTM builds is better than cookie cutters. But thats a skill balance issue rather than a class balance issue.
Not everyone wants to be DPS
Not everyone wants to be Tank
Not everyone wants to be Healer.
There will always be diversity in a classless system and everyone will mix and match there own playstyle/skill given the option.
Like now there are a few FOTM DK builds.....but there are also 100's of unique DK builds with there own subtle twists. It would be no different with a classless system...except you will have many more skills to choose from to make those individuals even more unique
A class system is by its very nature..restrictive or limiting.Edited by Rune_Relic on December 29, 2014 2:08PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited4 -
c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Such an original thread!
Use the search function, this has been discussed to death over and over.
Obviously not enough since that has not been done.
And although I am grateful for your wise advice you are missing point for making this thread.
I'll stop kicking the dead horse for a moment to say, the reason it has not been done yet, is it is a BAD IDEA. This is not a single player game where you are allowed to be Godly OP and have every spell, ability, etc. Its an MMO. It requires balance. And the last thing this game needs, is 95% of the population running around using all the DK abilities...
/thread
Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.2 -
DlSTORTlON✭✭✭OP should go back to playing Skyrim. He clearly has no idea what an MMO is.ZOS - proving that incompetence is rewarded more often than not since 2007
Elder Scrolls Online - Designed by geniuses, implemented by Mr. Bean2 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DlSTORTlON wrote: »OP should go back to playing Skyrim. He clearly has no idea what an MMO is.
That's a touch hard, there are MMOs that do do it like what the OP wants, Just this isn't one, nor should it be.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0