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One vs Twenty
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Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
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The gap between good and bad players is very high. 50000 sorcs run the same exact build and I'm only scared of 10 of them.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost7 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That isn't because the skill ceiling is high, its because this game has a garbage player pool where most of the half decent players quit a long time ago. Chalk it up to simply quality control issues. This game is not difficult nor does it take a long time to understand the mechanics. People are just bad.7 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Epsilon_Echo wrote: »Sorcs are the weakest class right now. BE stun spam is all they can really do nowadays:D
Do not chase a BE using sorc unless you know you can catch them, or if you are like me and just do it for the heck of it every now and then.
You can also get someone with a shield to help you: you will find your odds of killing that sorc greatly increase.
If they'really the weakest class shouldn't you always chase them? Logically your worst odds are if you are a sorc, in which case you would have a 50/50 chance, all other things being equal. Unless of course a tactical sorc is actually not a pushover, in which case you SHOULD fear them.
I get that logic is hard but this classism crap is old.
well you can't chase them if they spam BE can you?:/ if you try too you better be spamming BE yourself
Have you tried chasing a sorc with critical charge and decent weapon power?
Dead sorc within 3 charges, try it!
No but i'v seen others try it.
It seemd to work half the time, not every time though
If it only works half the time that's pretty healthy and balanced. It is an escape attempt after all.
I'm not a Stam build but I insist on running 1800-2000 stamina which helps keep up with a majority of the sorcs.
If timed properly, 2 of their bolts = 1 invasion or crit charge. if you avoid any stuns and other players/NPCs you'll win the resource race a majority of the time.
If its meant to be an escape abiltiy then why does it function so well as an offensive ability?
ach. thats off topic.0 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
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Poor NB, I fear literally 0 sorcs in this game. The best fun is chasing them down w/ blink + invasion.The gap between good and bad players is very high. 50000 sorcs run the same exact build and I'm only scared of 10 of them.
Edited by Teargrants on December 22, 2014 1:10AMPOST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
EP ※ Teargrants ※
EP ※ Kissgrants ※
DC ※ Kirsi ※
※ Vehemence Council ※
※ #JustOutOfRenderRange ※
~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴3 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
Remember, I've avenged you on lv38 sorcs! Gotta watch out for those youngsters, always trying to outdraw you.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
JaJaLuka✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
I take offense to that. I dont do it to build ult, I do it cuz I'm bored, or cuz my NB's been alive for too long. I kill wolves for ult.This game has a fairly high skill/knowledge ceiling, you probably ran into someone who knew what they were doing, and you didn't know exactly how to counter it. It happens, but if you learn from it I doubt it will happen like that again.
That said, it's unlikely you were ever going to kill that guy. Sorcs just do what they want on the battlefield, first in and first out. When my sorcs want to get ulti they just go into a raid of people and start messing around, casually popping about in a place that would get me instadead.
This is their strength: lower dps, high survivability and mobility.
This is why you don't take sorc advice from a NB folks.
+ 1 agreed to Teargrants, never EVER take sorc advise from another class.Edited by JaJaLuka on December 22, 2014 2:41AMKrojick, DC Sorc PC NA
Milámber, EP Sorc PC NA
Brunack, EP DK PC NA
General Mark Shephard, EP Temp PC NA (Worst temp NA XD )
Krojick Nightblade, DC NB PC NA
Others...0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well if they won't take my advice, I'll beat it into them with greatsword. Except Teargrants
Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭
That isn't because the skill ceiling is high, its because this game has a garbage player pool where most of the half decent players quit a long time ago. Chalk it up to simply quality control issues. This game is not difficult nor does it take a long time to understand the mechanics. People are just bad.
And you of course ruled from day one! So if we are all such garbage players how is it you are still around? Must be boring in that ivory tower you rule!7 -
Yusuf✭✭✭✭✭Everything that's not vr14 is cannon-fodder, no matter what class you're playing.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh or anything, vr14s are wearing better gear (as in rare set-items), have better stats in general and are more experienced in pvp most of the time.
Hint: if the icon near the enemy's name (his Alliance-Rank) is a fancy one like a moon or several squares instead of simple stripes you're as good as dead if you're new to pvp, no matter how many you are.2 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
That isn't because the skill ceiling is high, its because this game has a garbage player pool where most of the half decent players quit a long time ago. Chalk it up to simply quality control issues. This game is not difficult nor does it take a long time to understand the mechanics. People are just bad.
And you of course ruled from day one! So if we are all such garbage players how is it you are still around? Must be boring in that ivory tower you rule!
ignore him. He is one of many ESO undesirables(and yes, huntler, i know you can see this, i in fact hope you see this)3 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
That isn't because the skill ceiling is high, its because this game has a garbage player pool where most of the half decent players quit a long time ago. Chalk it up to simply quality control issues. This game is not difficult nor does it take a long time to understand the mechanics. People are just bad.
bahahahah!!! so you are the best player at ESO right? you are so good, that everyone else is garbage? wow. you have reached a new low even my pessemistic self could never have imagined.
Edited by Cody on December 22, 2014 7:45AM5 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sounds like you got badly out played.
If it were a NB, you'd have all been dead twice as fast. Your low levels would have been sniped from stealth and have no idea what happened. Then he would have been teleporting, fearing, and disappearing while ripping you apart with his 1,500 DPS burst.
A DK would have just run in locking you all down while your ranged characters killed them selves on his Scales. Once everyone was done blowing there resources by dodging his talons and failing to break his uber-block, he'd have made quick work of any survivors.
A 2handed Templar would have wrecked you with his blazing shield, carve, and ultimate of his choice.
Basically, you got badly badly out played irrespective of class.
Use it as a learning experience.2 -
Columba✭✭✭✭✭
✭Epsilon_Echo wrote: »Sorcs are the weakest class right now. BE stun spam is all they can really do nowadays:D
Do not chase a BE using sorc unless you know you can catch them, or if you are like me and just do it for the heck of it every now and then.
You can also get someone with a shield to help you: you will find your odds of killing that sorc greatly increase.
If they'really the weakest class shouldn't you always chase them? Logically your worst odds are if you are a sorc, in which case you would have a 50/50 chance, all other things being equal. Unless of course a tactical sorc is actually not a pushover, in which case you SHOULD fear them.
I get that logic is hard but this classism crap is old.
well you can't chase them if they spam BE can you?:/ if you try too you better be spamming BE yourself
Well you can charge after them of course.
But let's go through the cases:
Magicka build with stamina charge:
Sorc will be low on magicka and the chaser will be low on stamina.
The sorcerer can't drain stamina with class skills though, but has time to regen magicka with resto attacks as long as he has stamina left, could become a fair fight.
Stamina build with stamina charge:
If the chaser is tanky enough he will probably win. If not, he could die pretty fast when the Sorc turns around a moment, if not careful.
All class gap closers:
Mosty won't work unless you are a sorc spamming BE as well, as said already.
Chains are a joke, Take Flight an ultimate, Toppling Charge has it's global cooldown, Teleport Strike not a very great range and has a cast time.
If not Bolt Escape, Toppling charge would be your best bet, it defenitely works if the sorc does not get out of range a moment. One morph of Teleport Strike could slow the Sorcerer, thus giving you a chance if you have other speed buffs (medium armor, bow, maneuver...).
Edit: Path of Darkness is missing, it can be faster on medium to far distances, thus allowing a chase if the sorc does not manage to get out of the fight somehow before you get him low on magicka.
lol so why are sorcs whining about their class then?
0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Epsilon_Echo wrote: »Sorcs are the weakest class right now. BE stun spam is all they can really do nowadays:D
Do not chase a BE using sorc unless you know you can catch them, or if you are like me and just do it for the heck of it every now and then.
You can also get someone with a shield to help you: you will find your odds of killing that sorc greatly increase.
If they'really the weakest class shouldn't you always chase them? Logically your worst odds are if you are a sorc, in which case you would have a 50/50 chance, all other things being equal. Unless of course a tactical sorc is actually not a pushover, in which case you SHOULD fear them.
I get that logic is hard but this classism crap is old.
well you can't chase them if they spam BE can you?:/ if you try too you better be spamming BE yourself
Well you can charge after them of course.
But let's go through the cases:
Magicka build with stamina charge:
Sorc will be low on magicka and the chaser will be low on stamina.
The sorcerer can't drain stamina with class skills though, but has time to regen magicka with resto attacks as long as he has stamina left, could become a fair fight.
Stamina build with stamina charge:
If the chaser is tanky enough he will probably win. If not, he could die pretty fast when the Sorc turns around a moment, if not careful.
All class gap closers:
Mosty won't work unless you are a sorc spamming BE as well, as said already.
Chains are a joke, Take Flight an ultimate, Toppling Charge has it's global cooldown, Teleport Strike not a very great range and has a cast time.
If not Bolt Escape, Toppling charge would be your best bet, it defenitely works if the sorc does not get out of range a moment. One morph of Teleport Strike could slow the Sorcerer, thus giving you a chance if you have other speed buffs (medium armor, bow, maneuver...).
Edit: Path of Darkness is missing, it can be faster on medium to far distances, thus allowing a chase if the sorc does not manage to get out of the fight somehow before you get him low on magicka.
lol so why are sorcs whining about their class then?
Some Sorcs complain about Bolt Escape, I only complain about bugs (like volatile familiar) and bad design decisions (like critical surge/impenetrable, no direct damage).
Gets OT though, to discuss this further we have that "Why does ZOS hate Sorcs?" thread or whatever it's called.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That isn't because the skill ceiling is high, its because this game has a garbage player pool where most of the half decent players quit a long time ago. Chalk it up to simply quality control issues. This game is not difficult nor does it take a long time to understand the mechanics. People are just bad.
bahahahah!!! so you are the best player at ESO right? you are so good, that everyone else is garbage? wow. you have reached a new low even my pessemistic self could never have imagined.
As if I give two hoots about what you think. I never said I was the best player, not anywhere near it. But it sure as hell doesn't take the smartest or greatest player to realize this game has a low as hell skill ceiling. The only people who should be offended by what I said are people with messed up self-esteem that think I am talking about them... and if thats the case... I'd re-evaluate why I am playing this game if I were you...
Seriously if you think this game is hard and has a high skill ceiling... there is just no point in talking to you about it because you are oblivious.
Or just keep patting yourself on the back about how "skillful" you all are with this game.... just make sure not to hurt yourself.Edited by Huntler on December 22, 2014 3:51PM5 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Epsilon_Echo wrote: »Sorcs are the weakest class right now. BE stun spam is all they can really do nowadays:D
Do not chase a BE using sorc unless you know you can catch them, or if you are like me and just do it for the heck of it every now and then.
You can also get someone with a shield to help you: you will find your odds of killing that sorc greatly increase.
If they'really the weakest class shouldn't you always chase them? Logically your worst odds are if you are a sorc, in which case you would have a 50/50 chance, all other things being equal. Unless of course a tactical sorc is actually not a pushover, in which case you SHOULD fear them.
I get that logic is hard but this classism crap is old.
You shouldn't chase them (alone) because often they are bolt escaping toward their buddies.1 -
Chesimac✭✭✭✭
That isn't because the skill ceiling is high, its because this game has a garbage player pool where most of the half decent players quit a long time ago. Chalk it up to simply quality control issues. This game is not difficult nor does it take a long time to understand the mechanics. People are just bad.
Wow... Didn't know you were an arrogant POS before this... While certainly a large amount of the l33ts left when there was all the trouble in the beginning of the game you dont have to say "this game has a garbage player pool". Talk about arrogant6 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That isn't because the skill ceiling is high, its because this game has a garbage player pool where most of the half decent players quit a long time ago. Chalk it up to simply quality control issues. This game is not difficult nor does it take a long time to understand the mechanics. People are just bad.
Wow... Didn't know you were an arrogant POS before this... While certainly a large amount of the l33ts left when there was all the trouble in the beginning of the game you dont have to say "this game has a garbage player pool". Talk about arrogant
Prove me wrong, everyone getting their tizzy in a bunch about that line while completely ignoring my point, you're absolutely crazy if you think this game is hard or has a high skill ceiling. The player base has gone down the hill, everyone wants to blame imbalances or exploits on why they fail and don't even get me started on what people on this forum define as "exploits." You want to know why I feel the way I do, read these forums or zone chat... there was a freakin post not a few days ago complaining about the new meta shift toward sword/board and block casting... welcome to months ago. There are people here who think Nightblades are only a gank class and any change to stealth is a direct nerf to them. There are people here who think the most powerful, op magicka gear setup is seducer/warlock.... whoops, thats you..... Call me arrogant or whatever you'd like, but you clearly have your own biases as well, but I've made my decision based on observing around me and don't for one second think I am trying to say I am anywhere near the top in this game, I am far from it. But it takes someone seriously naive and self-indulgent to say this game has a high skill ceiling ffs.
edit: It is interesting how you immediately assume good players are "l33t" implying some negative connotation there... definitely picked up on that, ego problems?Edited by Huntler on December 22, 2014 5:55PM7 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well I didn't meant to start all that, oh my.
Basically, Huntler, I was trying to say that there is a large difference in this game between those who know the limits of their class and those who don't. You can have hundreds of people with the same build but some will play it much, much better than others. I've fought DKs with Sypher's exact build before, and wrecked them over and over, whereas I can fight Sypher himself for over 10 minutes and be unable to take him down. To me, that shows that there's a fairly significant skill ceiling, in that builds and gear in and of themselves don't determine who wins.
Why that led into all this nonsense, I have no idea.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost2 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well I didn't meant to start all that, oh my.
Basically, Huntler, I was trying to say that there is a large difference in this game between those who know the limits of their class and those who don't. You can have hundreds of people with the same build but some will play it much, much better than others. I've fought DKs with Sypher's exact build before, and wrecked them over and over, whereas I can fight Sypher himself for over 10 minutes and be unable to take him down. To me, that shows that there's a fairly significant skill ceiling, in that builds and gear in and of themselves don't determine who wins.
Why that led into all this nonsense, I have no idea.
Absolutely there will be players who are better than others and I am sure there are 100 different reasons for it. Player skill definitely factors in, but maybe I've been getting sick of the amount of self-back patting people do on these forums and in this game, its ridiculous. While skill can be involved I don't think this game is particularly difficult, hell... the game was meant for a more casual playing base all you have to do is look at how the game was designed with limited skill options, only allowing 5 skills per bar, limited information so that players who want to have more choices/decisions to differentiate can't, etc.
And then a bunch of people got offended for self-esteem issues or whatever it is.Edited by Huntler on December 22, 2014 6:09PM3 -
Jaerlach✭✭✭Well I didn't meant to start all that, oh my.
Basically, Huntler, I was trying to say that there is a large difference in this game between those who know the limits of their class and those who don't. You can have hundreds of people with the same build but some will play it much, much better than others. I've fought DKs with Sypher's exact build before, and wrecked them over and over, whereas I can fight Sypher himself for over 10 minutes and be unable to take him down. To me, that shows that there's a fairly significant skill ceiling, in that builds and gear in and of themselves don't determine who wins.
Why that led into all this nonsense, I have no idea.
Absolutely there will be players who are better than others and I am sure there are 100 different reasons for it. Player skill definitely factors in, but maybe I've been getting sick of the amount of self-back patting people do on these forums and in this game, its ridiculous. While skill can be involved I don't think this game is particularly difficult, hell... the game was meant for a more casual playing base all you have to do is look at how the game was designed with limited skill options, only allowing 5 skills per bar, limited information so that players who want to have more choices/decisions to differentiate can't, etc.
And then a bunch of people got offended for self-esteem issues or whatever it is.
Say what you like about difficulty, but this game does have one major barrier to improvement: information is hard to acquire. You have to meet/ask strong players because build and skill information is not publicized by good sources. Deltia is often the only decent Web based source.
New players have a huge knowledge gap because of this.
Execution may not be harder than other games, but learning how things work certainly is.Jaerlach Kesepton (DK)
The 7th Vanguard
DC - NA first SO speed run & first Hardmode Speedrun
NA Record Vet DSA: 115190 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭Epsilon_Echo wrote: »Sorcs are the weakest class right now. BE stun spam is all they can really do nowadays:D
Do not chase a BE using sorc unless you know you can catch them, or if you are like me and just do it for the heck of it every now and then.
You can also get someone with a shield to help you: you will find your odds of killing that sorc greatly increase.
If they'really the weakest class shouldn't you always chase them? Logically your worst odds are if you are a sorc, in which case you would have a 50/50 chance, all other things being equal. Unless of course a tactical sorc is actually not a pushover, in which case you SHOULD fear them.
I get that logic is hard but this classism crap is old.
well you can't chase them if they spam BE can you?:/ if you try too you better be spamming BE yourself
Well you can charge after them of course.
But let's go through the cases:
Magicka build with stamina charge:
Sorc will be low on magicka and the chaser will be low on stamina.
The sorcerer can't drain stamina with class skills though, but has time to regen magicka with resto attacks as long as he has stamina left, could become a fair fight.
Stamina build with stamina charge:
If the chaser is tanky enough he will probably win. If not, he could die pretty fast when the Sorc turns around a moment, if not careful.
All class gap closers:
Mosty won't work unless you are a sorc spamming BE as well, as said already.
Chains are a joke, Take Flight an ultimate, Toppling Charge has it's global cooldown, Teleport Strike not a very great range and has a cast time.
If not Bolt Escape, Toppling charge would be your best bet, it defenitely works if the sorc does not get out of range a moment. One morph of Teleport Strike could slow the Sorcerer, thus giving you a chance if you have other speed buffs (medium armor, bow, maneuver...).
Edit: Path of Darkness is missing, it can be faster on medium to far distances, thus allowing a chase if the sorc does not manage to get out of the fight somehow before you get him low on magicka.
lol so why are sorcs whining about their class then?
Because they don't know how to play it.Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)2 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭My sorc is a low VR level and I refuse to play as a vamp, which is probably why I feel so darn UP most of the time. Even so, seeing another enemy sorc gets me kinda excited cuz it's like, "Got chance!" (pardon the Hawaiian slang)
Anyway, the sorc you fought sounds like he totally knows how to play vs inexperienced players. I'm guessing he targeted your lower levels first (not hard to drop if he's a VR14) but if the rest of you failed to CC him or otherwise incapacitate him before he BE'd away that's where the main fail is. A couple decent same level players on his ass should be all it takes for the chase. If he managed to kill VR14s amidst your group, no offense but they just probably aren't very good (yet).Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well I didn't meant to start all that, oh my.
Basically, Huntler, I was trying to say that there is a large difference in this game between those who know the limits of their class and those who don't. You can have hundreds of people with the same build but some will play it much, much better than others. I've fought DKs with Sypher's exact build before, and wrecked them over and over, whereas I can fight Sypher himself for over 10 minutes and be unable to take him down. To me, that shows that there's a fairly significant skill ceiling, in that builds and gear in and of themselves don't determine who wins.
Why that led into all this nonsense, I have no idea.
Absolutely there will be players who are better than others and I am sure there are 100 different reasons for it. Player skill definitely factors in, but maybe I've been getting sick of the amount of self-back patting people do on these forums and in this game, its ridiculous. While skill can be involved I don't think this game is particularly difficult, hell... the game was meant for a more casual playing base all you have to do is look at how the game was designed with limited skill options, only allowing 5 skills per bar, limited information so that players who want to have more choices/decisions to differentiate can't, etc.
And then a bunch of people got offended for self-esteem issues or whatever it is.
Say what you like about difficulty, but this game does have one major barrier to improvement: information is hard to acquire. You have to meet/ask strong players because build and skill information is not publicized by good sources. Deltia is often the only decent Web based source.
New players have a huge knowledge gap because of this.
Execution may not be harder than other games, but learning how things work certainly is.
This is a good point and completely fair. I'd encourage players to test things themselves as its true you can't really trust other information because most people assume or spout hearsay.0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Huntler there is a slight flaw in your logic though.
If the game has a low skill ceiling and is easy enough for you to recognize this, why are you not the best player?
I'm confused about the fact that you say the game is easy, but in the same comment say you know that people are 'better' than you.
Can you clarify that? If I find something incredibly easy, it's safe to assume that I am excellent at said thing...Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Huntler there is a slight flaw in your logic though.
If the game has a low skill ceiling and is easy enough for you to recognize this, why are you not the best player?
I'm confused about the fact that you say the game is easy, but in the same comment say you know that people are 'better' than you.
Can you clarify that? If I find something incredibly easy, it's safe to assume that I am excellent at said thing...
And by your same logic, just because you find something easy, doesn't mean you are or have to be the best in it. Is that really hard to understand? It shouldn't be. There will always be people who may put more effort, naturally better, etc. etc. etc.
Your logic doesn't make any sense. Do people want a pat on the back for being good at this game?
Edited by Huntler on December 22, 2014 9:44PM2 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭me? no. I was honestly just trying to understand why you are so judgmental about player skill. Seems to matter a lot.
Also, i'm not very good at this game lolTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
gibous✭✭✭✭There is nothing strange about a single solid sorc wiping a lower leveled, less experienced group of 20. It sounds like Michael Jordan at basketball camp completely owning a bunch of teenagers in a 1vX exhibition game.Reddington James — Magsorc & Magplar (NA PC)3
