Champion system capping at 30 points - yet another cry for a change [Explicit cookie version]

rotaugen454

I'd like for Zenimax to clarfy. Earlier, they had said that if you had hit VR14, you still accumulated points towards Champion Points so is 30 the total, or the starting point for having a vet character?

prototypefb

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

i'd like to be rewarded 1 CP each day i got subscription up!
That sounds fair, backdate is so people with long subscription have slight head start.
And how cool it would be to log in and receive your awesome point for just being in ESO universe!
customer satisfaction (*) (*) (*) (*) (*)

"slight head start" 300+ CP? That is three full trees maxed out.

considering that there supposedly are 3600 CP max it's not that much asked

either way, the customer is always rigth (*) (*) (*) (*) (*)

Faunter

What I don't understand is this:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

We have been tracking Experience gains past maximum Veteran Rank on accounts in preparation for the Champion System.

That's the first point under "Veteran Rank Improvements" in the 1.5.2 Patch Notes.

Gyudan

@Faunter: I added the quote from the Champion System lead explaining that XP was being tracked towards champion points in the original post. This was October 3rd.

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

Elsonso

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I'd like for Zenimax to clarfy. Earlier, they had said that if you had hit VR14, you still accumulated points towards Champion Points so is 30 the total, or the starting point for having a vet character?

Starting point. XP WILL add to that, but maybe not until phase 4. That is the best educated guess I have seen.

Ommamar

I guess it really comes down to why are you playing? For fun? To "beat" the game? To rule all? I understand you have worked hard but that is the thing this is suppose to be entertainment you enjoy not work you have to complete.

Gyudan

I think that the players who advocate equality and a "fresh start" fail to comprehend some of the issues at stake.

Deleting every single character and having everyone start at the prison in Coldharbour again would be a fresh start.

Giving every single player the maximum amount of Champion Points, VR14, cool gear and 10,000,000 gold would be equality.

Giving the same amount of champion points to everyone regardless of the amount of time/effort spent in the game and having the players who actually played the game more than others be at a disadvantage for future character progression is neither.

This is a MMO, not a MOBA or a tabletop RPG. There is character progression and players who play the game more should have something to show for it.

Why are the players who quested at a disadvantage?

I know that Maria stated that the different methods to get XP would be relatively equal in terms of gains. While I feel that this is a good thing, we should not forget that ever since the game was launched, players have managed to find exploits again and again, granting them faster XP progression. PVP and PVE have always lead to different progression speeds. @ZOS has not managed to even out the XP/VP gains for almost 9 months, why would they suddenly succed now? This is just too unlikely in my opinion.

The players who did every single quest with their character will not be able to redo them. If they want to gain Champion Points, they will have to do one of the following activities:

1) Repeatable quests in Alliance War. These are simply awful. I went through them twice to get my Tamriel Hero title and I hated 90% of the time spent there.
The only fun I had was I joined a guild group that was clearing one of the villages. We did the quests slowly, cleared a few dungeons and dark anchors, while chatting on Teamspeak and it was nice. However, our quest hunting wasn't very efficient and we would have received champion points quite slowly. If everybody is doing those quests after update 6, expect many ganks around the villages, and maybe players farming AP this way. So much fun ahead ...

2) Grinding mobs. Who likes that, seriously? Some players put on some music and do that for hours with a friend, which is not that bad I guess. I would personally hate being forced into grinding to get Champion Points. Keep in mind that the current most efficient grinding process involves going into a group dungeon with 1 other player, clearing only the first room, exit and regroup to reset the instance. Is that really what the devs envisioned? Hours of exploits?

3) Repeating Trials and Veteran Dungeons. Let's be honest here, those will never bring balanced XP simply because of the difficulty. Some players clear the basic trials in 10 minutes and a veteran dungeon in around 20. Other players are still having trouble getting to the final boss with enough souls to kill it (even decent players in Sanctum) and struggle to complete veteran dungeons.
I sincerely hope that farming Aetherian Active, 15 minutes per run counting regrouping, so 10+ times in one evening, does not become the future of endgame content.

4) Alliance War / PVP. If you like that, good for you because you probably haven't lost anything and will get more balanced XP compared to the PVE players. I personally do not go to Cyrodiil and prefer fighting game mechanisms with a group of friends than other players.

My advice for all players who are wondering what to do:

If you have quests left to do in Cadwell's Silver and Gold, save them for later. Right now they will participate in Champion Points gains and you will never be able to redo them.
If you want to do new Veteran or Normal dungeons with a Veteran Character, do not play the dungeon quests. Save them for later.

Black_Wolf88

I completely agree with above post.

Zenimax should start by keeping their words as they said continue questing and do whatever you want to since all xp will be loged and benefit you in the champion system.

no matter how much you try, we are not equal in any way. some people have done more than others and you cant change that. if they continue like with the undaunted and benefit those that have done the least all over again most of us dedicated players would be furious.

furious enough to quit the game entirely and in great number? highly doubt that. However, anger and disappointment over and over again builds up and benefits no one.

if they want everyone to be equal they need to reward those that have done the most for what they have done as they said they would several times ( see quote in previous posts). besides, those that have done the least will have the same amount of champion points once they too go trough all the content that vr14 have done up til this point.

Enodoc

For those saying that they may address this in Phase 4 ( @Elloa, @lordrichter‌, @ probable_others) while I would like that to be the case, I think that's being too generous to ZOS. Between Update 6 and whenever they roll out Phase 4, people will continue to gain XP towards Veteran Ranks, and also XP to CPs. To do this exchange from VR-based XP to CPs at Phase 4, they would be counting twice the XP gained between Update 6 and Phase 4, unless they freeze the VR-based counter at Update 6. And if they're going to do that, they may as well make the exchange then anyway.

zaria

Gyudan wrote: »

@Faunter: I added the quote from the Champion System lead explaining that XP was being tracked towards champion points in the original post. This was October 3rd.

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

Yes, this was the stupid thing to say. That is the problem, not that you don't get an reward for each xp earned.

Nobody should expect it anyway. Changes in MMO rarely reward you of past effort.
Someone who has played WOW since launch and reached the xp cap 14 days after mist of pandora are in the same boat as somebody who reached the xp cap the day before release of the warlord expansion.
Saving the Cadwin gold main quest might have given you 10 CP more,

In the meanwhile grind away.
http://checkitweb.com/hazop/work.htm

Gyudan

zaria wrote: »

In the meanwhile grind away.
http://checkitweb.com/hazop/work.htm

This is the best definition of grinding that I've seen so far. Thanks @zaria!

zaria

Gyudan wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

In the meanwhile grind away.
http://checkitweb.com/hazop/work.htm

This is the best definition of grinding that I've seen so far. Thanks @zaria!

Thanks, and yes this one felt it was an personal easter egg then she saw the manual mills in Skyrim.
Feel free to use it on other work related projects. I also have it as an screensaver.

MrGhosty

I have no concrete info the same as the rest of you, but since we're speculating here I would base my thoughts off of what was said in ESO live. They said everyone with at least a vet1 would get 30 points across their characters (makes sense they want us to have a nice pool to play with and discover problems) but them saying that doesn't mean they won't then reward players who have advanced beyond that vet1 benchmark.

We must remember that we still know very little about this system, and what they did reveal is intended to get us excited for the new features and encourage players to test this stuff on the PTS. I'm not a ZOS apologist, and lord knows their methods of delivery can be a bit rubbish but I'm prepared to not panic and get upset until it hits PTS and we see what's what.

xaraan

Elloa wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

If they are going to "reset" the game, then they need to reset all the quests I've done and make them available for me to redo since that is what I prefer to level with instead of pvp or grinding. And End game content is group content and not really do-able solo. So cool, start everyone with 30, but give me an extra character slot for each vet I already have a v14 or make all the vet quests I've done repeatable for those characters.

Okay so... guys. Do you have a problem to not have your EXP point on PH3 of the Champion system? You want it all Immediately? Or you would be happy if you knew that it would be introduced in PH4?

Cause, they kinda say it clearly. the system are overlapping each others, we will not remove veteran rank in update6. So OF COURSE you will not get your Veteran rank EXP in Champion point as you will still be a Veteran ranked player!!!

The only problem with this is... so, let's say you have your v1 and get 30, i have my v14 and get 30 -- we both earn a million xp during ph3 and 4 -- so we both get 10 more points (or whatever) for that xp. Now, I'm still v14 when ph4 comes out, you are now v2 (or we can pump up that million to more and make you vet whatever in the example) -- do you also get whatever bonus xp for each vet level, when you've also earned points during progressing through those vet levels? If so, that still doesn't leave me "ahead" for completing content you still have ahead of you to earn points with.

I've thought about what you are saying. But it doesn't seem like an easy system and would be more work to track than just roll out a fair amount of points from the start.

Elloa

I think they will track XP until Update6 is deployed. Once Update6 is deployed they do not need to track XP anymore.

What players would get is the experience gained previously the Update6. I also think that it may be a percentage of it to avoid players to be capped immediately in PH4, but that's only speculation from me.

Averya_Teira

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

i'd like to be rewarded 1 CP each day i got subscription up!
That sounds fair, backdate is so people with long subscription have slight head start.
And how cool it would be to log in and receive your awesome point for just being in ESO universe!
customer satisfaction (*) (*) (*) (*) (*)

"slight head start" 300+ CP? That is three full trees maxed out.

Seeing as each tree requires 400 CP to be maxed out and you rotate every CP you get... No, it's not...

Elloa wrote: »

I think they will track XP until Update6 is deployed. Once Update6 is deployed they do not need to track XP anymore.

What players would get is the experience gained previously the Update6. I also think that it may be a percentage of it to avoid players to be capped immediately in PH4, but that's only speculation from me.

Exactly, once Update 6 rolls out, the system is in place anyway, we will be earning CPs, so no need to track anything. IF they do give players the CPs they deserve from their past XP in Update 7 (supposedly full champion system), then all this matter goes away and everyone is happy.

Also, there are 3600 points at around 4 hours per point, NOBODY will be even CLOSE to 1/3 the total CPs lol. It's just basic math, see below

October 3rd (the XP tracking announcement) to ... let's say Update 7 is February 3rd so it's around 120 days :

120 days of 24/7 grinding (which is not possible to human beings) : 2880 hours of XP gained.

1 CP = around 4 hours, let's bring enlightement and say the average gain takes 3 hours because often it's 4 and sometimes it's 1 due to being enlightened.

2880 / 3 = 960 CPs

Total number of CP is 3600.

960 * 100 / 3600 : 26,66666667 %

If you grinded XP NON STOP for FOUR MONTHS, you'd still only be at 1/4 of the total number of possible CP lol...

So, no, no one will be ''capped'' when Phase 4 comes out LOL.

SRIBES

You get a lol from me.

Tyr

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

i'd like to be rewarded 1 CP each day i got subscription up!
That sounds fair, backdate is so people with long subscription have slight head start.
And how cool it would be to log in and receive your awesome point for just being in ESO universe!
customer satisfaction (*) (*) (*) (*) (*)

"slight head start" 300+ CP? That is three full trees maxed out.

It's 100 points per star and there are 4 stars in each constellation for a possible maximum of 3600 CP.

300 CP is less than 10% of the maximum CP and probably close to what the cap will be.

pppontus

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

You will be competitive with 30 CP... you will be unbalanced with more. That is why they made the cap 30 for everyone.

So, your definition of competetive is VR1 doing Sanctum Ophidia? I don't understand really how anyone can be happy about this unless you just don't do any (proper) endgame content. I'm not going to grind for 2 weeks to get back to the point I am now so I can continue to run SO and vet DSA.

Elloa wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

I want the actual equivalent of what I have done. You know, the actual XP I have earned since I hit VR1..

I bet you my ESO hoodie that you will get just that in PH4.

I like this bet.

And yes, it's that easy. If ZOS would just step forward for once with some clarification and say that.. everything would be perfectly fine.

They have to learn at some point that they can't just throw out some unclear crap on a livestream and then go silent while the playerbase can't do anything but speculate. Every single one of these threads is ZOS own fault for having communication skills on par with a bunch of kids in preschool

Gyudan

I think you're raising an interesting point @pppontus‌, bringing Sanctum into the discussion. I would like to consider the opposite situation.

Let's picture Sophie, an experienced VR14 player. She has completed both Sanctum Ophidia and Dragonstar Arena Veteran with her guild. For some reason, let's say a grave illness, she cannot play between now and the release of update 7, where Vet Ranks are supposed to disappear.

When she comes back in april/may, she will supposedly be rolled back to Level 50 and she'll have 30 champion points.
With that setup, she will be completely unable to complete the content that she used to do with relative ease.
(If 30 CP are enough to kill the Serpent, endgame content would be in a sad sad situation)

Support Sophie and the recognition of her past character progression. Say no to leveling the player base.


90℅ of thr players arguing against this:

Nerf VR14, she grinded to go there. I want to do Sancum too LOL. Gimme free stuff.

spoqster

I don't mind so much if all the grinding on top of VR14 gets capped away. But I believe the cap should be such that Caldwell's Silver and Gold, as well as sufficiently many dungeon runs fit in.

Lilarna

It seems to be quite reasonable to say that many people are dissapointed with the idea that whether you have eight veteran 14 characters, or just one veteran 1 character, you have the same amount of Cookies. I doubt that people who have several Veterans are actively happy that they don't have more Cookies. Of course, people who don't have several veteran characters can feel happy that they will enjoy as much Cookies, but that's not the point. It would not hurt them if the others had a bit more Cookies.


Consequently, could it not be fair just to give out, for example, 1 Cookie for each veteran rank on each character ?
That would make 112 points for someone who has eight veteran 14 characters, which is a considerable amount of time spent in the game.
Or even 1 Cookie every 2 or 3 veteran ranks per character ? That would be 56 or 37 cookies.
Whether it be 112, 56 or 37, it can't be such a crazy difference given that there are 3600 Cookies to be eaten, right ?
And it would soothe everybody.
Even if it wouldn't quite "make up" for the dissapointment people who have accumulated a lot of xp to get Cookies feel, it would be a great thing !



As for the global XP question, to please faithful players, couldn't it be possible (since XP has been tracked) to give out cookies at a different ratio than the the one that will be in place after 1.6 ? And also put a cap to it.
It would help implement "less of a variance in player power to achieve a good introduction of the system" but still give a little advantage to the old and dedicated players.

Take the player with the highest XP accumulated, determine how many Cookies you think he can have, and then calculate stages in between him and a player who freshly earned his veteran 1 rank.

Inklings

Not only am i now ticked about the flat rate of 30cp for everyone, i am also hungry for cookies. Thanks Obama!

EQBallzz

Lilarna wrote: »

It seems to be quite reasonable to say that many people are dissapointed with the idea that whether you have eight veteran 14 characters, or just one veteran 1 character, you have the same amount of Cookies. I doubt that people who have several Veterans are actively happy that they don't have more Cookies. Of course, people who don't have several veteran characters can feel happy that they will enjoy as much Cookies, but that's not the point. It would not hurt them if the others had a bit more Cookies.


Consequently, could it not be fair just to give out, for example, 1 Cookie for each veteran rank on each character ?
That would make 112 points for someone who has eight veteran 14 characters, which is a considerable amount of time spent in the game.
Or even 1 Cookie every 2 or 3 veteran ranks per character ? That would be 56 or 37 cookies.
Whether it be 112, 56 or 37, it can't be such a crazy difference given that there are 3600 Cookies to be eaten, right ?
And it would soothe everybody.
Even if it wouldn't quite "make up" for the dissapointment people who have accumulated a lot of xp to get Cookies feel, it would be a great thing !



As for the global XP question, to please faithful players, couldn't it be possible (since XP has been tracked) to give out cookies at a different ratio than the the one that will be in place after 1.6 ? And also put a cap to it.
It would help implement "less of a variance in player power to achieve a good introduction of the system" but still give a little advantage to the old and dedicated players.

Take the player with the highest XP accumulated, determine how many Cookies you think he can have, and then calculate stages in between him and a player who freshly earned his veteran 1 rank.

Honestly, if they are not doing a conversion of any kind I think awarding 1 CP per vet level across all characters is an appropriate compromise. It obviously took WAY more XP to get 1 vet level than it would to get a single CP but 1 CP per vet level would at least acknowledge the vast amounts of playtime people put into the vet system (including prior to the nerf which took much longer and was MUCH harder).

I only have 2 max level characters so I wouldn't benefit the most but I have no problem with someone else getting more CP if they have more vet levels. If they also want to give anyone with a single v1 character a boost of 30 I would be OK with that as well. That would be a vastly more fair and equitable system than this stupid flat rate. So for 2 max level characters I would get 28 CP + 30 = 58 CP. Someone V1 would get 30 CP and someone with 4 v14s would get 86 CP. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Csub

All I want for Christmas is another CP cap-related topic!

Vaelen

Honestly, every VR14 player should be extremely furious at this revelation, if ZOS is indeed going back on their promise, then there will be an exodus of unsubscriptions soon.

Chrlynsch

This is phase 3 of 4... they do not want players to have both max VR ranks and uber lots of cookies because those characters would be vastly stronger than a fresh VR.

My guess at the start of 1.6 they will give us 30 free cookies, stop tracking xp, and we will gain cookies as normal. When they remove VR ranks they will then give us the cookies that we earned prior to 1.6

Savy?

Gyudan

Prothwata wrote: »

This is phase 3 of 4... they do not want players to have both max VR ranks and uber lots of cookies because those characters would be vastly stronger than a fresh VR.

My guess at the start of 1.6 they will give us 30 free cookies, stop tracking xp, and we will gain cookies as normal. When they remove VR ranks they will then give us the cookies that we earned prior to 1.6

Savy?

Sorry @Prothwata, it's been confirmed by @ZOS_KaiSchober that no cookies will be delivered for XP received prior to update 6. Nothing on phase 3 and nothing on phase 4 or later.

Chrlynsch

Also confirmed that VR ranks won't be converted to cookies when they are removed? Also remember that it's been confirmed that cloak was fixed that siege weapons would stack, werewolf transformation would not bug out, lag was fixed in cyrodiil. Expect the best prepare for the worst. Nothing is true, there is only cookies.

Gyudan

Prothwata wrote: »

Also confirmed that VR ranks won't be converted to cookies when they are removed?

Sadly yes, or at least they have no plans to do that at the moment.