Champion system capping at 30 points - yet another cry for a change [Explicit cookie version]

Gyudan

When the Champion System goes live, all players with at least one Veteran character will be awarded 30 Champion Points regardless of their past progression.
When the Veteran ranks are removed, there will be no compensation for all the content done after dealing with Molag Bal. VR1s and VR14s will have an identical progression.


Let's take a step back and consider this analogy.

Think for a second that Elder Scrolls Online is a big treasure hunt, where players get to gather cookies.
- You can go to specific locations in the world and do a series of quests (answer riddles or hunt monsters) to get awarded 1 specific cookie. Each quest can only be done once by each player. [That's questing.]
- Every player can do the exact same quests to get awarded the exact same amount of cookies.
- You can attack the other cookie hunters and beat them half to death. If you do that several times, you get awarded a cookie. [That's PVP.]
- You can punch a rock 10,000 times and get awarded a cookie. Feel free to repeat the process as many times as you want. Note that this is generally faster than cookie hunting if you are good enough at punching rocks. [That's grinding.]
- At the time of your choosing, you may go to a location where free orange juice is offered and everyone gets to enjoy a nice relaxing afternoon with friends. Cookie hunters with a big cookie bag inspire respect and often aggregate into "cool kids" groups. There are a few quests here as well, but most of the time this place awards very few cookies compared to the rest of the world. [That's endgame content.]
- Players get to eat and enjoy their cookies in any way they want.
- Everybody can spend just as much time as they want gathering cookies or enjoying the landscape or sleeping in the lands of IRL.
- Gathering more cookies than the other participants is not the goal of the game per say, but someone with 1,000 cookies will have an advantage over someone with only 200.

There are specific rules in this contest.
- Players don't get to open their cookie bags until February. Until then, nobody really knows how many cookies they have. [That's Update 6.]
- Cookies get diminishing results. Even if you haven't tasted them yet, you know that your 100th cookie will bring less excitement than your very first one.

At some point along the race, before anyone even gets to open their bag of cookies, the organizers of the contest decide to reset each player's stash. At the grand cookie bag opening in February, all players will be awarded 30 cookies, regardless of how many they had gathered before.

- The players who spent very little time gathering them are happy because they'll get to eat more cookies than they anticipated. They also have access to most of the quests that will reward cookies. [Those are the new Lvl50 players.]
- The players who spent a lot of time gathering them are quire disappointed, especially if they already did all the quests awarding cookies, since those cannot be repeated. They now feel like they are being forced into a completely different playstyle in order to access the precious cookies. They also feel that the speed at which they get cookies will be much lower than that of the newer players. [Those are questers.]
- The players who punched many rocks will continue punching rocks until they consider that they have enough cookies. [Those are grinders.]

TL;DR: I feel that capping Champion Points at 30 for everyone will be a disaster for players who have already completed the entire game with one character or more.

Thanks for reading.



Edit: This is the previous statement regarding XP tracking, directly from the Champion System Lead, written October 3rd.

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

This would be out of the picture.

Guppet

Thank the heavens you made this thread! We really needed it! It's completely unique and brings lots of new things to discuss!

Leon119

Gyudan wrote: »

Situation: as this has not been answered yet, it is safe to assume that all players with a VR1+ character will be awarded 30 Champion Points, regardless or their achievements in the game.
Check the Champion System explanation on ESO Live 19/12 for more details.


Let's take a step back and consider this analogy.

Think for a second that Elder Scrolls Online is a big treasure hunt, where players get to gather cookies.
- You can go to specific locations in the world and do a series of quests (answer riddles or hunt monsters) to get awarded 1 specific cookie. Each quest can only be done once by each player. [That's questing.]
- Every player can do the exact same quests to get awarded the exact same amount of cookies.
- You can attack the other cookie hunters and beat them half to death. If you do that several times, you get awarded a cookie. [That's PVP.]
- You can punch a rock 10,000 times and get awarded a cookie. Feel free to repeat the process as many times as you want. Note that this is generally faster than cookie hunting if you are good enough at punching rocks. [That's grinding.]
- At the time of your choosing, you may go to a location where free orange juice is offered and everyone gets to enjoy a nice relaxing afternoon with friends. Cookie hunters with a big cookie bag inspire respect and often aggregate into "cool kids" groups. There are a few quests here as well, but most of the time this place awards very few cookies compared to the rest of the world. [That's endgame content.]
- Players get to eat and enjoy their cookies in any way they want.
- Everybody can spend just as much time as they want gathering cookies or enjoying the landscape or sleeping in the lands of IRL.
- Gathering more cookies than the other participants is not the goal of the game per say, but someone with 1,000 cookies will have an advantage over someone with only 200.

There are specific rules in this contest.
- Players don't get to open their cookie bags until February. Until then, nobody really knows how many cookies they have. [That's Update 6.]
- Cookies get diminishing results. Even if you haven't tasted them yet, you know that your 100th cookie will bring less excitement than your very first one.

At some point along the race, before anyone even gets to open their bag of cookies, the organizers of the contest decide to reset each player's stash. At the grand cookie bag opening in February, all players will be awarded 30 cookies, regardless of how many they had gathered before.

- The players who spent very little time gathering them are happy because they'll get to eat more cookies than they anticipated. They also have access to most of the quests that will reward cookies. [Those are the new Lvl50 players.]
- The players who spent a lot of time gathering them are quire disappointed, especially if they already did all the quests awarding cookies, since those cannot be repeated. They now feel like they are being forced into a completely different playstyle in order to access the precious cookies. They also feel that the speed at which they get cookies will be much lower than that of the newer players. [Those are questers.]
- The players who punched many rocks will continue punching rocks until they consider that they have enough cookies. [Those are grinders.]

TL;DR: I feel that capping Champion Points at 30 for everyone will be a disaster for players who have already completed the entire game with one character or more.

Thanks for reading.

i agree with this completly also now im hungry...
COOOOKIIIIEEEESSSSSSSSS

Leon119

on a more serious note this will force questers to become grinders, and i thought that was a bad thing

AshySamurai

PBpsy

What if I want cake? Nerf Cookies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eserras7b16_ESO

Well one question: Is it that all players only get 30 Cookies per character, or is it that everybody gets 30 Cookies apart from the Cookies they've earned? I think they'll give us earned cookies!

Siluen

As a player that is nearing 12000 achievement points, I would like some extra options for obtaining some cookies besides killing monsters over and over. I would love it if the quests I have completed months and months ago were re-opened for me to collect cookies that way.

I do not mind for every vet character to get an equal amount of cookies at the start, we all love them, we all want them. But I would like to stick my hand into the same big, full jar that is awaiting them still with Cadwell's Silver and Gold!

Gyudan

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Well one question: Is it that all players only get 30 Cookies per character, or is it that everybody gets 30 Cookies apart from the Cookies they've earned? I think they'll give us earned cookies!

30 cookies as long as you have a VR1+ characters, regardless of their level, the amount of XP received or how many quests have been completed. Even if your 8 characters are VR14 and have completed all the achievements, you still get 30 cookies.

Elloa

First of all, it has been said that experience (and so Champion point) will be gained equally from all activities, may it be PVP, Dungeon, Questing. So I think that players that have finished the game and are just doing end game activities will not have more troubles to gather Champion points than the guy doing quest. (also quest are more distractful, if you are like me, enjoying to get immersed in stories, quest will not be the fastest way to gain champion point haha)

But MOST IMPORTANTLY, we are speaking about the Phase3. The Champion system and the Veteran rank system are overlapping each other.
Zenimax have not spoken about the PH4 and how they will do to remove the Veteran ranks, because they are not ready to speak about it (they have said in a previous episode). So, if the Veteran14 players will be compensate for their experience points "lost", I believe it's in phase4 and not phase3 that it will be done.

So I think that players should not stress for now. Wait for an announcement concerning Ph4. We may have news only after the Champion system had been tested though. They may need feedback about how players react to the Champion sytem, and how the Champion system works before to take a decision. And maybe they wil decide to not remove the veteran rank at all.

Navaya

I feel cheated of my Cookies

But yea I completely agree with you, I hate to grind or to do same quests over and over again (dailies). But with this I am gonna be forced to do it.

HxC

Elloa wrote: »

First of all, it has been said that experience (and so Champion point) will be gained equally from all activities, may it be PVP, Dungeon, Questing. So I think that players that have finished the game and are just doing end game activities will not have more troubles to gather Champion points than the guy doing quest.

This is theory.
In fact, Builds and gears sets have a great impact in the time spent to do quest and dungeons.
In end game content some players do undaunted dungeons in less than twenty minutes, when other players need 1 hour or more.
In PvP good players die less than an average player and earn more XP/AP.

Doing End game content is far more difficult than solo questing.

The Average Player who already did Caldwell Gold will struggle getting Champ Points, not Top Player or Grinders.

A way to avoid this, is at least, give to players all the champion points they should earn doing caldwell Gold (Vet 10).

Elloa wrote: »

So, if the Veteran14 players will be compensate for their experience points "lost", I believe it's in phase4 and not phase3 that it will be done.

No, they will not doing this, as they do not want a big gap between old players and newcomers. The big problem for them is to manage the difficulty of end game contents, if they compensate, it will be easy mode for old players or they'll step up the diffculty and the newcomers will have hard time doing it.

Ashtaris

OP, you have a very valid point and it's going to drive away the casual players who are not grinders. They will see no potential or opprotunity to earn more cookies with their VR14 characters. Probably what ZOS should do is initially award 30 cookies and then so many cookies per VR level earned. Would that be fair?

Voodoo

I dont think its a "disaster". per say but rather unfortunate and you will get over it.

Pallmor

Cookie Monster was very disappointed in podcast. Cookie Monster work very hard for long time questing for cookies. Now Cookie Monster get no more cookies than Grouch who sit in garbage can all day doing nothing.

Mud_Puppy

How and the literal hell did you manage to make cookies depressing?

Elloa

As I said in another thread....

First I don't get how everyone assume the worst here.

1. They have said you will get experience for every activity: So relax, continue to play and you will get your Champion point. ( If you are concerned by balance issue, play the PTS and give your feedback to be sure that each activity may it be Dungeon, PVP, or Questing reward players +- equally)
2. It has not been said that "Higher level players" will not get a compensation/translation of their actual experience. May someone point me out the moment ZOS have said that.
3. As reminder its PH3 of Champion system where Zos want to focus on see players experiement the Champion tree, the new passive and the new way to obtain the points. Not PH4. In PH4 There will be removing the Veteran rank and will probably compensate the players at that time.
Otherwise during the entier PH3, Veteran players will be twice as powerfull as other players as there will be at the same time Vet14 and have more Champion points.


So I think that here everyone is FREAKING OUT for no reasons. Come back to your sense guys and wait to have additional answers before to start to rage. You are probably angry for nothing right now.

Now its also the weekend, so the answers will not arrive before Monday EST.

xaraan

If they are going to "reset" the game, then they need to reset all the quests I've done and make them available for me to redo since that is what I prefer to level with instead of pvp or grinding. And End game content is group content and not really do-able solo. So cool, start everyone with 30, but give me an extra character slot for each vet I already have a v14 or make all the vet quests I've done repeatable for those characters.

Elloa

xaraan wrote: »

If they are going to "reset" the game, then they need to reset all the quests I've done and make them available for me to redo since that is what I prefer to level with instead of pvp or grinding. And End game content is group content and not really do-able solo. So cool, start everyone with 30, but give me an extra character slot for each vet I already have a v14 or make all the vet quests I've done repeatable for those characters.

Okay so... guys. Do you have a problem to not have your EXP point on PH3 of the Champion system? You want it all Immediately? Or you would be happy if you knew that it would be introduced in PH4?

Cause, they kinda say it clearly. the system are overlapping each others, we will not remove veteran rank in update6. So OF COURSE you will not get your Veteran rank EXP in Champion point as you will still be a Veteran ranked player!!!

pppontus

I am really worried about this. As someone with a V14 of each class just so I can enjoy endgame content with different roles and setups, I have invested a huge amount of time in this game.

If this is indeed true I could literally start a new account 15 hours before the patch hits, grind up to level 50 and have the same amount of CP.

Also endgame content is the only thing I still do in the game, the only thing I want to do, whatsoever.. and this gives absolutely horrific experience per time spent. What is it, like 11K XP for finishing Sanctum Ophidia which takes like 1,5 hours.

11K XP can be achieved in 20 seconds at a spot I will not name here (we have to have some f***ing backup for when we have to grind two hours every day to stay competetive in endgame).

Seriously ZOS, this is .. so .. damn .. bad. We need you to confirm or deny this ASAP, sub is ticking down and ends on Monday.

Amsel_McKay

pppontus wrote: »

I am really worried about this. As someone with a V14 of each class just so I can enjoy endgame content with different roles and setups, I have invested a huge amount of time in this game.

If this is indeed true I could literally start a new account 15 hours before the patch hits, grind up to level 50 and have the same amount of CP.

Also endgame content is the only thing I still do in the game, the only thing I want to do, whatsoever.. and this gives absolutely horrific experience per time spent. What is it, like 11K XP for finishing Sanctum Ophidia which takes like 1,5 hours.

11K XP can be achieved in 20 seconds at a spot I will not name here (we have to have some f***ing backup for when we have to grind two hours every day to stay competetive in endgame).

Seriously ZOS, this is .. so .. damn .. bad. We need you to confirm or deny this ASAP, sub is ticking down and ends on Monday.

How many points do you want? 10000000 enough, 5000, 300, 30, 1? Why not just be max champion level at 1.6 launch? I mean why are you even playing?

Elsonso

LOL.

They said that everyone gets a 30 cookie reward for having a Veteran The 30 cookies is not a cap, which I am sure they will get around to telling us in January after they are all back from Holiday.

I do like "cookies" instead of "champion points" though and intend to use this from now on. It is just a more fun and humorous way to express it.

pppontus

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

I am really worried about this. As someone with a V14 of each class just so I can enjoy endgame content with different roles and setups, I have invested a huge amount of time in this game.

If this is indeed true I could literally start a new account 15 hours before the patch hits, grind up to level 50 and have the same amount of CP.

Also endgame content is the only thing I still do in the game, the only thing I want to do, whatsoever.. and this gives absolutely horrific experience per time spent. What is it, like 11K XP for finishing Sanctum Ophidia which takes like 1,5 hours.

11K XP can be achieved in 20 seconds at a spot I will not name here (we have to have some f***ing backup for when we have to grind two hours every day to stay competetive in endgame).

Seriously ZOS, this is .. so .. damn .. bad. We need you to confirm or deny this ASAP, sub is ticking down and ends on Monday.

How many points do you want? 10000000 enough, 5000, 300, 30, 1? Why not just be max champion level at 1.6 launch? I mean why are you even playing?

I want the actual equivalent of what I have done. You know, the actual XP I have earned since I hit VR1. Not the equivalent of what I had months ago so that I have to redo 4 NEW characters and do everything AGAIN to get to where I am now..

I don't give a *** in regards to how many points that is. I just care about being competetive for the content I want to do, because I've already done exactly 100% of the rest of the content.. so you can understand I don't want to do that again (and then again, and again, again, again, again, and again, and again).

Amsel_McKay

pppontus wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

I am really worried about this. As someone with a V14 of each class just so I can enjoy endgame content with different roles and setups, I have invested a huge amount of time in this game.

If this is indeed true I could literally start a new account 15 hours before the patch hits, grind up to level 50 and have the same amount of CP.

Also endgame content is the only thing I still do in the game, the only thing I want to do, whatsoever.. and this gives absolutely horrific experience per time spent. What is it, like 11K XP for finishing Sanctum Ophidia which takes like 1,5 hours.

11K XP can be achieved in 20 seconds at a spot I will not name here (we have to have some f***ing backup for when we have to grind two hours every day to stay competetive in endgame).

Seriously ZOS, this is .. so .. damn .. bad. We need you to confirm or deny this ASAP, sub is ticking down and ends on Monday.

How many points do you want? 10000000 enough, 5000, 300, 30, 1? Why not just be max champion level at 1.6 launch? I mean why are you even playing?

I want the actual equivalent of what I have done. You know, the actual XP I have earned since I hit VR1. Not the equivalent of what I had months ago so that I have to redo 4 NEW characters and do everything AGAIN to get to where I am now..

I don't give a *** in regards to how many points that is. I just care about being competetive for the content I want to do, because I've already done exactly 100% of the rest of the content.. so you can understand I don't want to do that again (and then again, and again, again, again, again, and again, and again).

You will be competitive with 30 CP... you will be unbalanced with more. That is why they made the cap 30 for everyone.

Guppet

xaraan wrote: »

If they are going to "reset" the game, then they need to reset all the quests I've done and make them available for me to redo since that is what I prefer to level with instead of pvp or grinding. And End game content is group content and not really do-able solo. So cool, start everyone with 30, but give me an extra character slot for each vet I already have a v14 or make all the vet quests I've done repeatable for those characters.

If all you like doing is questing, but you have done them all, what the heck are you doing with your game time currently? Keep doing that and you'll get CP!

Elloa

pppontus wrote: »

I want the actual equivalent of what I have done. You know, the actual XP I have earned since I hit VR1..

I bet you my ESO hoodie that you will get just that in PH4.

Gyudan

Elloa wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

I want the actual equivalent of what I have done. You know, the actual XP I have earned since I hit VR1..

I bet you my ESO hoodie that you will get just that in PH4.

This is quite a dangerous bet. I think you can start prepairing the package!

EQBallzz

Elloa wrote: »

As I said in another thread....

First I don't get how everyone assume the worst here.

1. They have said you will get experience for every activity: So relax, continue to play and you will get your Champion point. ( If you are concerned by balance issue, play the PTS and give your feedback to be sure that each activity may it be Dungeon, PVP, or Questing reward players +- equally)
2. It has not been said that "Higher level players" will not get a compensation/translation of their actual experience. May someone point me out the moment ZOS have said that.
3. As reminder its PH3 of Champion system where Zos want to focus on see players experiement the Champion tree, the new passive and the new way to obtain the points. Not PH4. In PH4 There will be removing the Veteran rank and will probably compensate the players at that time.
Otherwise during the entier PH3, Veteran players will be twice as powerfull as other players as there will be at the same time Vet14 and have more Champion points.


So I think that here everyone is FREAKING OUT for no reasons. Come back to your sense guys and wait to have additional answers before to start to rage. You are probably angry for nothing right now.

Now its also the weekend, so the answers will not arrive before Monday EST.

You don't seem to be comprehending the issue at hand so let me attempt to clarify it for you.

1. Yes, you get experience for every activity but one of the *main* activities for earning XP is the V1-V14 content. That content can't be repeated so the XP from that is a one time deal. For those of us that have one or more characters already at max level we can't gain access to that lost XP ever again.

The types of activities available to players at max level are generally not XP rich activities but rather more time sinks. Working on trials or the limited number of repeatable (and difficult) quests may earn you some XP but will not compare to the XP gained from the leveling content between V1 and V14.

So a player just hitting V1 will have an enormous CP advantage over someone max level. Every vet level is 1 million XP (and many of us leveled up when it was 5x that much) so that is 14 million *lost* XP (per character) which means it's also lost CP. If one CP is about 100k XP that's like 140 CP lost into thin air that can't ever be gained. I have two max characters so that's 280 lost CP I can never get back. You can say people can still grind or something else but players who are VR1 will also have the option to grind or something else in addition to all the V1-V14 content which means they will have a significantly greater pool of CP to access.

Nobody expected a 1 to 1 conversion for previous experience but they did state rather clearly that there would be some sort of XP conversion for vet levels and XP gained beyond V14 was being tracked for conversion into the CP system as well (up to some unknown cap).

2. They said it in the ESO Live stream. That everyone at least VR1 would get 30 CP equally. There is still some confusion as to whether that is a minimum amount at VR1 and then more will be applied for those with more vet ranks but the fact that there has been no clarification on this is not very promising.

3. This is some figment of your imagination I think because nowhere has anyone said that phase 4 would implement some sort of compensation. Quite the contrary. Phase 3 is supposed to roll out the CP system and ensure everything is working as intended and phase 4 is meant to take away the vet levels so I'm not sure where you got the idea there was some sort of compensation at that point when the CP system will have been in place for weeks already at that point.

xMovingTarget

I like Cookies!

NOM NOM NOM! MOAR

prototypefb

i'd like to be rewarded 1 CP each day i got subscription up!
That sounds fair, backdate is so people with long subscription have slight head start.
And how cool it would be to log in and receive your awesome point for just being in ESO universe!
customer satisfaction (*) (*) (*) (*) (*)

Amsel_McKay

prototypefb wrote: »

i'd like to be rewarded 1 CP each day i got subscription up!
That sounds fair, backdate is so people with long subscription have slight head start.
And how cool it would be to log in and receive your awesome point for just being in ESO universe!
customer satisfaction (*) (*) (*) (*) (*)

"slight head start" 300+ CP? That is three full trees maxed out.