ZOS, please verify that Justice System will be 100% optional for provisioners

diabeticDemon18

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

MSchroeder wrote: »

We can confirm that you will NOT have to steal in order to provision. The Justice System and the Provisioning Revamp are both coming in Update 6, which means that you’ll have lots of ways to acquire your provisioning ingredients:

• As before, you can take items from furniture, baskets, and the many containers found throughout Tamriel. While many of these will be owned by someone – and thus, subject to Justice – not all of them will be. If you take items from an unowned container, those items will be yours, free and clear. You’ll be able to tell at a glance whether taking from the container is theft or not, just like in previous Elder Scrolls games.
• Similarly, the individual ingredients you find on tables and in the world will be available, and though some will be owned, not all will be. If an apple is sitting on a table and is not owned by someone, then you can take it and use it in your recipes without consequence. Again, you’ll be able to tell at a glance whether taking the item is theft or not.
• Grocers, Brewers, and Cooks have had their stores updated. From them, you’ll be able to purchase all the ingredients you need for any recipe (excepting, of course, rare ingredients).
• Animals in the wilderness will drop meat that you can use to cook with, as well. If you need meat, you can simply go hunt wild deer or rabbits. Of course, if you WANT to break the law, then livestock animals like cows are also available for illicit slaughter.
• Similarly, you’ll be able to fillet the many common fish you find from fishing holes, and use their meat in recipes.
• Hirelings will still deliver materials to you on a regular basis. In fact, they’ll be delivering larger amounts of materials than before.
• Provisioning Writs will continue to provide large quantities of materials to whoever is willing to work for them.

Between all these sources, we feel that both ne’er-do-well and saintly provisioners will have a wide variety of options for procuring their ingredients.

So, what you're saying is, we'll all be cancelling our accounts UNLESS the speed at which we get our key ingredients for purple food is effectively (with the changes) the same speed we get them now.

If its considerably slower to get the same amount of these ingredients, will ZOS consider that a bug, or will you intentionally be making it slower to get them?

You have plenty of areas to get mats from. If you want to quit because they added a system that should've been here from the get go, then go ahead and leave. They won't miss you, frankly none of us will. Sorry for being so harsh but I hate how people whine about things like this and act as if it's game breaking... Oh man, I have to search for ingredients just a little bit longer, what am I gonna dooooooo... stop complaining and just play the game, if you don't like it then leave.

Cuyler

xaraan wrote: »

I'm more concerned with thieves having a better chance of gathering things like recipes and motifs and those of us that aren't going to steal hoping to randomly find one out of the random trunk we come across out of a city. If the locations to find them stay as they are now and trunks/dressers/cabinets in cities have to be stolen from, then thieves will pretty much own the market on them. I can count the times on one finger that someone in my group has found a good item like that randomly in the wild, but passing through a home or castle you can check a bunch of containers and have pretty good luck.

Edit: also have to add I'm even more concerned that they ignored this issue when I asked it for ESO live (and I asked it in the pre-live thread here, early and wasn't the only one to ask it). They talked the normal opt-in stuff they I already gathered from previous talk, but wouldn't clarify how this issue would wash out.

If it's like previous ES games then you can look into the containers without having to raise your "heat". Then if and when you do find the "rare" item in an owned container you can choose to loot it or not.

Edit: Considering "heat" for stealing an item will "cool off" over time, if its truly that enticing (say an imperial motif) and your sneaky enough to get away without being caught, this will be a non issue.

diabeticDemon18

Cuyler wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I'm more concerned with thieves having a better chance of gathering things like recipes and motifs and those of us that aren't going to steal hoping to randomly find one out of the random trunk we come across out of a city. If the locations to find them stay as they are now and trunks/dressers/cabinets in cities have to be stolen from, then thieves will pretty much own the market on them. I can count the times on one finger that someone in my group has found a good item like that randomly in the wild, but passing through a home or castle you can check a bunch of containers and have pretty good luck.

Edit: also have to add I'm even more concerned that they ignored this issue when I asked it for ESO live (and I asked it in the pre-live thread here, early and wasn't the only one to ask it). They talked the normal opt-in stuff they I already gathered from previous talk, but wouldn't clarify how this issue would wash out.

If it's like previous ES games then you can look into the containers without having to raise your "heat". Then if and when you do find the "rare" item in an owned container you can choose to loot it or not.

non issue

Exactly, and it's not like you're going to get a bounty just for stealing things. You get a bounty for getting CAUGHT stealing things, so just be a good little thief and you'll be fine

Jayne_Doe

I was kinda hoping that the items you could steal from containers would be cool armor pieces from sets or something and not just purple recipes or an Imperial motif.

Xjcon

Simple fix. If you Are about to loot something that would be stealing, the game warns you, if you don't care to be warned you have an option to not be notified, doesn't seem like it would be that hard to implement. And may already be the case.

eventide03b14a_ESO

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Just want an official ZOS response that we will still be able to loot all barrels, crates, baskets, produce, etc. in the game without participating in the Justice System.

Or, a response that we need to cancel our accounts now.

Either way.

edit: clarification on my question:

My question is asking: "If I press ESC > Options > Gameplay", will there be a checkbox / setting called "[ ] Enable Justice System"

And also, if that setting is unchecked, that my provisioner will be able to loot every single crate, barrel, basket, etc. in the game (as they can now) with no repercussions.

I think you're playing the wrong game friend.

AlnilamE

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

MSchroeder wrote: »

We can confirm that you will NOT have to steal in order to provision. The Justice System and the Provisioning Revamp are both coming in Update 6, which means that you’ll have lots of ways to acquire your provisioning ingredients:

• As before, you can take items from furniture, baskets, and the many containers found throughout Tamriel. While many of these will be owned by someone – and thus, subject to Justice – not all of them will be. If you take items from an unowned container, those items will be yours, free and clear. You’ll be able to tell at a glance whether taking from the container is theft or not, just like in previous Elder Scrolls games.
• Similarly, the individual ingredients you find on tables and in the world will be available, and though some will be owned, not all will be. If an apple is sitting on a table and is not owned by someone, then you can take it and use it in your recipes without consequence. Again, you’ll be able to tell at a glance whether taking the item is theft or not.
• Grocers, Brewers, and Cooks have had their stores updated. From them, you’ll be able to purchase all the ingredients you need for any recipe (excepting, of course, rare ingredients).
• Animals in the wilderness will drop meat that you can use to cook with, as well. If you need meat, you can simply go hunt wild deer or rabbits. Of course, if you WANT to break the law, then livestock animals like cows are also available for illicit slaughter.
• Similarly, you’ll be able to fillet the many common fish you find from fishing holes, and use their meat in recipes.
• Hirelings will still deliver materials to you on a regular basis. In fact, they’ll be delivering larger amounts of materials than before.
• Provisioning Writs will continue to provide large quantities of materials to whoever is willing to work for them.

Between all these sources, we feel that both ne’er-do-well and saintly provisioners will have a wide variety of options for procuring their ingredients.

So, what you're saying is, we'll all be cancelling our accounts UNLESS the speed at which we get our key ingredients for purple food is effectively (with the changes) the same speed we get them now.

If its considerably slower to get the same amount of these ingredients, will ZOS consider that a bug, or will you intentionally be making it slower to get them?

Are you serious?

1. Some ingredients for purple food only come from hirelings.

2. The ones that don't (onions, garlic, salt, pepper, red wheat) are mostly found in dungeons. Every time I go into a dwemer ruin to look for motifs (which I do only occasionally, I find at least two dozen "rare" mats. Those are still going to be lootable containers whether you have the justice system enabled or not.

Of course, with the provisioning revamp, they may not exist anymore. We'll find out...

Dagoth_Rac

Wait, you can sell stolen goods to other players? I thought you could only sell stolen goods to NPC "fences"? Would stolen goods purchased from another player still be considered stolen? Thus making the buyer also open to attack by NPC Guards and, eventually, PvP? Or will selling to another player be the ESO equivalent of money laundering that "cleans" the stolen goods? Will we be able to tell stolen versus non-stolen goods from guild store screen and player trade screen?

DeLindsay

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

And also, if that setting is unchecked, that my provisioner will be able to loot every single crate, barrel, basket, etc. in the game (as they can now) with no repercussions.

Nope, and we never should've been able to do this, it was just a game mechanic ZoS didn't have time to get into the game at launch. There will be PLENTY of containers not owned by NPCs that you can loot til your heart's content. A Justice system similar to ALL TES games is coming whether you like it or not. In fact why even play ESO if you don't like the way TES games are in the first place?

Pheefs

I don't think you'll be able to opt out with a toggle, unless as @Enodoc suggested, it would just make all the justice containers not interact with you at all.

you will get the red indicator for "stealing" instead of regular looting.
& even if you do take a peek inside, you still have a chance to choose to take it or not, & that would be in ALERT red as well.

if you are willing to turn off auto-loot, it shouldn't be a problem!

Curragraigue

The thing to remember OP is that although you are 'losing' containers if you don't want to take part in the Justice System you are gaining new containers from the objects in the world that will now be interractable. Like fruit trees and vines that are currently not able to be used.

Leeric

Why complain until the provisioning system is at least on the PTS. Or at least we have more details aside from less stuff.

Tandor wrote: »

My concern about looting containers for e.g. provisioning mats is that I don't have a problem with being caught by a NPC guard and being pursued for stealing, as per ES games, but as someone with no interest in PvP I have no desire to open the wrong container and find myself enabled for PvP.

I assume that owned containers (as well as NPCs) will have some kind of indication that they are part of the justice system so that they can be avoided if desired. I certainly hope that's the case.

There will be an amount, that you have to reach to enable you for PVP. And thats if you get caught stealing items. So if your bounty isn't high enough you won't be enabled for PVP.

hutchinsonhatch

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Just want an official ZOS response that we will still be able to loot all barrels, crates, baskets, produce, etc. in the game without participating in the Justice System.

Or, a response that we need to cancel our accounts now.

Either way.

edit: clarification on my question:

My question is asking: "If I press ESC > Options > Gameplay", will there be a checkbox / setting called "[ ] Enable Justice System"

And also, if that setting is unchecked, that my provisioner will be able to loot every single crate, barrel, basket, etc. in the game (as they can now) with no repercussions.

I think they already stated that the JS will be optional, didn't they? Only thing, I'm not sure about is whether I like it to be optional or not.
You - as a provisioner - should have a viable alternative to get the ingredients you need, be it via hirelings or a market place, or your own farm.

Audigy

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I'm more concerned with thieves having a better chance of gathering things like recipes and motifs and those of us that aren't going to steal hoping to randomly find one out of the random trunk we come across out of a city. If the locations to find them stay as they are now and trunks/dressers/cabinets in cities have to be stolen from, then thieves will pretty much own the market on them. I can count the times on one finger that someone in my group has found a good item like that randomly in the wild, but passing through a home or castle you can check a bunch of containers and have pretty good luck.

This is also something that came to my mind while reading this thread. The problem with a game like ESO, is that you cannot purchase recipes or motifs and most ingredients (although it looks like you'll be able to with the revamped provisioning, except for, of course, rare ingredients). When you have to rely on looting to find a recipe to cook with, of course you're going to want to have the maximum amount of containers in which to find said recipe and its ingredients.

It looks like the revamped provisioning will take care of the ingredients, but if you still have to hunt for recipes, and most of the recipe containers are in houses and castles and inns, then it would seem that you will have less opportunity to find them. I'm not saying I don't want consequences, and am fine with NPCs now owning things. But, ZOS should then increase the drop rate for items that are only obtainable by looting (or spending exorbitant amounts at a guild trader). I think someone mentioned them reducing the amount of junk loot, which would also help.

Basically, if you've put in place a system (provisioning) that requires looting in order to succeed (you need to loot recipes and still need to loot rare ingredients), then reduce the opportunity for acquiring the necessary components to craft, I can see why people are concerned. But, if they reduce junk loot and increase the likelihood of finding recipes (NOT dramatically), then it should be fine.

I don't understand why you think that a thief has it easy in future.

Just to present you a few facts.

Criminals can not defend themselves but only flee. So if someone really breaks into a house, pick locks a chest ... then he or she is in great danger of being spotted as we all know how people will grief that system to the disadvantage of those who are a thief.

A thief can not kill a witness or a guard, a thief must vanish and we all know that only one class can do this right now and this not even good.

It will be incredible hard and unfair for a thief to start with and if one of them really manages to steal something then they deserve a better reward than you looting an abandoned barrel don't you think?

What we know so far about the role of Criminals in Tamriel is pretty hard and unfair to those who pick that role. To now demand that you have an equal chance as those who already face so many obstacles and disadvantages is really not nice.

In my opinion risk vs. reward must play a huge role and right now the little lockboxes inside a house must give a high reward else the whole system would become totally obsolete.

You also have to question if motifs or food that is found are actually available to the player or not.

Don't forget, you can not trade these items! So either you learn the motif or cook food or you have pretty much a useless reward.

If you however find a motif, then you can sell it to others.

Again, we are talking about disadvantages of being a thief versus advantages of being none.

DeLindsay

hutchinsonhatch wrote: »

I think they already stated that the JS will be optional, didn't they? Only thing, I'm not sure about is whether I like it to be optional or not.
You - as a provisioner - should have a viable alternative to get the ingredients you need, be it via hirelings or a market place, or your own farm.

Quoting this due to one thing you said. ZoS is ADDING farm like places around Tamriel (unknown when) that are just like other TES games where an NPC will be growing maybe a dozen of the same item and will be 100% harvestable by players as they won't be owned by said NPC's. Yes that's mainly for Alchemy but it's similar to how open world containers have no NPC affiliation therefore allowing a player to bypass the Justice system entirely. One place that comes to mind for this is Dune in Rawl'Kha, that corridor between the 2 halves of the city is absolutely full of containers and no NPC's short of a single guard patrolling.

liquid_wolf

Based on all their reports, some containers will be locked down, and others will be left open.

NadiusMaximus

It's an ES game. It should not be optional.

Provisioning is so easy anyway, this would add a needed difficulty to it.


Cowbell.

Natjur

The way I read it was.

"[ ] Enable Justice System" means you can steal, if you do not have that enabled, some containers will no longer be loot-able as they are owned and only loot-able by those with Justice system enabled.

So if you don't enable it, you will have less containers to loot but most common stuff will be buy-able instead. So its a non issue.

EXCEPT for motifs and other rare drops and this is has a lot of people worrying, as they want to farm and sell theses like they can now without getting having to enable the justice system and therefore get linked into PVP

Audigy

Natjur wrote: »

The way I read it was.

"[ ] Enable Justice System" means you can steal, if you do not have that enabled, some containers will no longer be loot-able as they are owned and only loot-able by those with Justice system enabled.

So if you don't enable it, you will have less containers to loot but most common stuff will be buy-able instead. So its a non issue.

EXCEPT for motifs and other rare drops and this is has a lot of people worrying, as they want to farm and sell theses like they can now without getting having to enable the justice system and therefore get linked into PVP

How often do we need to repeat this?

You can not sell motifs, food or whatever you find as a thief. The only "person" that wants these goods is the shady dealer in the hideout.

NordJitsu

Man people will whine about anything.

They're adding an awesome feature that makes this more like an Elder Scrolls game.

If you'd rather play a copy/paste WoW clone instead of an Elder Scrolls MMO, there are plenty out there.

abigfishy

MSchroeder wrote: »

We can confirm that you will NOT have to steal in order to provision. The Justice System and the Provisioning Revamp are both coming in Update 6, which means that you’ll have lots of ways to acquire your provisioning ingredients:

Between all these sources, we feel that both ne’er-do-well and saintly provisioners will have a wide variety of options for procuring their ingredients.

Fantastic answer. I apologise on behalf of all the ignorant people that haven't watched the show or read this and still complain about things that are very clear.

Everyone starts in the justice system but you have a setting to opt out. If you choose that you cannot commit any crimes so you will be unable to pick pockets, steal from owned containers etc.

So in summary:

1) The justice system is optional.

2) Justice system and provisioning updates are both in update 6.

3) Hunting and fishing will actually be useful now.

4) Provisioning will be easier not harder.

What is not to like?

EQBallzz

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Just want an official ZOS response that we will still be able to loot all barrels, crates, baskets, produce, etc. in the game without participating in the Justice System.

Or, a response that we need to cancel our accounts now.

Either way.

edit: clarification on my question:

My question is asking: "If I press ESC > Options > Gameplay", will there be a checkbox / setting called "[ ] Enable Justice System"

And also, if that setting is unchecked, that my provisioner will be able to loot every single crate, barrel, basket, etc. in the game (as they can now) with no repercussions.

I doubt you will be able to 'opt out' in that way. It would be dumb if there were two separate games existing in the same world which is what that would do.

People cry that the game isn't enough like ES and this is a perfect example of them adding something just like they had in ES and people crying about it when they do. There is no winning for them regardless of what they do. Make it like ES and people cry it's not enough like XYZ MMO. Make it more like an MMO and it's not ES enough.

If you are really considering quitting over something this ridiculous then you must be searching for a reason to quit so my suggestion is to just go ahead and quit now! I will gladly take your stuff (including all the stuff you are leaving behind in all those crates). THX! BYE!

hutchinsonhatch

DeLindsay wrote: »

hutchinsonhatch wrote: »

I think they already stated that the JS will be optional, didn't they? Only thing, I'm not sure about is whether I like it to be optional or not.
You - as a provisioner - should have a viable alternative to get the ingredients you need, be it via hirelings or a market place, or your own farm.

Quoting this due to one thing you said. ZoS is ADDING farm like places around Tamriel (unknown when) that are just like other TES games where an NPC will be growing maybe a dozen of the same item and will be 100% harvestable by players as they won't be owned by said NPC's. Yes that's mainly for Alchemy but it's similar to how open world containers have no NPC affiliation therefore allowing a player to bypass the Justice system entirely. One place that comes to mind for this is Dune in Rawl'Kha, that corridor between the 2 halves of the city is absolutely full of containers and no NPC's short of a single guard patrolling.

Hm... that's a convenient way to gather alchemy ingredients, though I have no shortage of them.
This still is a lazy way out, in my opinion, be it for alchemy or any other craft. If ZOS thinks about implementing an area to grow provisioning stuff on, I'd really like to see an implementation like it was done in LOTRO years back. You really had to grow, harvest, sort your stuff, and then finally cook or bake it.
Well, time will tell what we are offered.

Natjur

Audigy wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

The way I read it was.

"[ ] Enable Justice System" means you can steal, if you do not have that enabled, some containers will no longer be loot-able as they are owned and only loot-able by those with Justice system enabled.

So if you don't enable it, you will have less containers to loot but most common stuff will be buy-able instead. So its a non issue.

EXCEPT for motifs and other rare drops and this is has a lot of people worrying, as they want to farm and sell theses like they can now without getting having to enable the justice system and therefore get linked into PVP

How often do we need to repeat this?

You can not sell motifs, food or whatever you find as a thief. The only "person" that wants these goods is the shady dealer in the hideout.

But you can CONVERT stole goods into something else (food you cook etc) or use yourself. Any stole goods converted into something else can be sold. Also there was some quotes that stolen goods could also be sold to players (but not merchants) but still would be marked as stolen.

Valkesh

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

They probly are not going to add more barrels and crates in the game to accommodate the justice system and are going to utilize the existing containers. So us provisioners are going to have to be careful. I just know Im gonna get nailed stealing by accident with this system. Not looking forward to it.

If you've ever played an ES game before this is nothing new aka non issue

Yes I have played ES games before. However, ESO is different, and we are accustomed to playing it a certain way. Now they are going to change it, so it can cause a problem for provisioners who are accustomed to playing it a certain way.

If you really have played any ES game before you should have been accustomed to having to deal with the "stealing" issue. Coming to ESO where everything was lootable should have felt foreign to you.

This should have been in the game from day one. You had to know this was coming eventually and they change things all the time. You were expecting something else?

But it has not been in the game since day one. Its going to be a change in gameplay. As long as there is a toggle to opt out I don't see it as a problem.

This is an MMO. You don't just "opt out" of how mechanics work in an MMO. Thing's also change, and MMOs that don't and choose to hold back because people have gotten comfortable, stagnate. This is hardly a strictly negative change. Keeping bad/boring systems just because it might break up some grindy routine people have fallen into is one of the worst things I can think of. An MMO that is still as it was on day one, several months later, is a dead world.

Audigy

Natjur wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

The way I read it was.

"[ ] Enable Justice System" means you can steal, if you do not have that enabled, some containers will no longer be loot-able as they are owned and only loot-able by those with Justice system enabled.

So if you don't enable it, you will have less containers to loot but most common stuff will be buy-able instead. So its a non issue.

EXCEPT for motifs and other rare drops and this is has a lot of people worrying, as they want to farm and sell theses like they can now without getting having to enable the justice system and therefore get linked into PVP

How often do we need to repeat this?

You can not sell motifs, food or whatever you find as a thief. The only "person" that wants these goods is the shady dealer in the hideout.

But you can CONVERT stole goods into something else (food you cook etc) or use yourself. Any stole goods converted into something else can be sold. Also there was some quotes that stolen goods could also be sold to players (but not merchants) but still would be marked as stolen.

Do you now want to tell us that you miss out if a thief makes a barbeque?

There are animals you can hunt for food, you don't need to loot barrels and stuff.

And no stolen goods can not be traded this was confirmed at ESO live.

Voodoo

Common sense will tell you all you need to know.

Rydik

Opener of this theme seems like already uses some new "heavy" cooking ingredients.XD

LonePirate

The two gate areas for all factions in Cyrodiil are great places to gather upper tier Provisioning ingredients currently. If the Justice System remains disabled for everyone in Cyrodiil (as was mentioned a few weeks back), then these might be the best places to loot, apart from possibly the various baskets and crates by the lake in Belkarth, Craglorn.

JD2013

Yeah, they're not going to be doing all of this work, changing the game systems and NPC behaviour, overhauls and everything like that for it to be optional.