Monthly "Fix your UI Zenimax" post 2

Tankqull

lordrichter wrote: »

You answer this way because you are responding to what I consider to be a problem in the game. You are suggesting that they band-aid the problem by adding information that you need in order to determine that the game is working correctly

no i answer in this way because the implementation of only optical and acustic clues is not possible in an MMO - it works perfectly fine in a solo game where no other effects then yours and your opponents are rendered on your and his artifical body. but the moment you see 5 different player be involved these type of clues are drowned in the overwhelming particle overkill.
as a prime example: http://s1.directupload.net/images/user/120829/4c8lla5q.jpg
and that is happenening here as well. and thats the reason why icons are simply needed nothing more or less.

kongkim

Razzak wrote: »

While we are on the topic of UI ... is there a way to make inventory behave like a grid and not like a list of items? Meaning when I move an item, the rest of the items don't change their position.

Get the mod that fix that. Don't force us that don't like grit to use it. and no reason they spend time on it when there is a mod that do it just fine.

Razzak

kongkim wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

While we are on the topic of UI ... is there a way to make inventory behave like a grid and not like a list of items? Meaning when I move an item, the rest of the items don't change their position.

Get the mod that fix that. Don't force us that don't like grit to use it. and no reason they spend time on it when there is a mod that do it just fine.

Imagine a check box with the option to have list based or grid based inventory view. A check box that allows both of us to use whatever design seems better. Wouldn't that be better than what we have now?

kongkim

Razzak wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

While we are on the topic of UI ... is there a way to make inventory behave like a grid and not like a list of items? Meaning when I move an item, the rest of the items don't change their position.

Get the mod that fix that. Don't force us that don't like grit to use it. and no reason they spend time on it when there is a mod that do it just fine.

Imagine a check box with the option to have list based or grid based inventory view. A check box that allows both of us to use whatever design seems better. Wouldn't that be better than what we have now?

Ofc. Options are always better. But i still say, use the time on something other now and do that later. as the mod do it just fine.

Razzak

kongkim wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

While we are on the topic of UI ... is there a way to make inventory behave like a grid and not like a list of items? Meaning when I move an item, the rest of the items don't change their position.

Get the mod that fix that. Don't force us that don't like grit to use it. and no reason they spend time on it when there is a mod that do it just fine.

Imagine a check box with the option to have list based or grid based inventory view. A check box that allows both of us to use whatever design seems better. Wouldn't that be better than what we have now?

Ofc. Options are always better. But i still say, use the time on something other now and do that later. as the mod do it just fine.

This can prove to be a double edged sword. Letting them work on important things might make them work on ... console release. They were apparently able to redesign the UI for consoles, so what's stopping them to do the same for PC version? Oh, right, we've already bought that one.

TehMagnus

Tankqull wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

You answer this way because you are responding to what I consider to be a problem in the game. You are suggesting that they band-aid the problem by adding information that you need in order to determine that the game is working correctly

no i answer in this way because the implementation of only optical and acustic clues is not possible in an MMO - it works perfectly fine in a solo game where no other effects then yours and your opponents are rendered on your and his artifical body. but the moment you see 5 different player be involved these type of clues are drowned in the overwhelming particle overkill.
as a prime example: http://s1.directupload.net/images/user/120829/4c8lla5q.jpg
and that is happenening here as well. and thats the reason why icons are simply needed nothing more or less.

Totally agree. Even if the visual and audible queues where working flawlessly, it's not possible to use them effectively when there are 12 players stacking in the same place and AOE's, Ultimates, and buffs are flying all over the place.

Since this game has no real "cool down" for skills, a very simple way to implement this is to show a timer directly in the used skill, a lil bit like FTC does but instead of having an extra icon on the screen, you can just mod the skill in your bar so it flashes while the DoT is up and hitting something.

Cherryblossom

Congratulations @magnusnet you have finally got some recognition for your persistence.

Could you now do a monthly fix cyrodill post!?

TehMagnus

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Congratulations @magnusnet you have finally got some recognition for your persistence.

Could you now do a monthly fix cyrodill post!?

I don't think I'm the best person to talk about PVP since I stopped going there about 2 or 3 months ago. Just isn't fun to play with all the lag and the zerging.

I have high hopes for the new "kamikaze" "zerg breaking" ultimates ZOS will be introducing, if less people are stacking in the same place it's bound to make things better for the engine and a bit less lag for the players (and actually might make PVP fun again).

Carter_DC

I agree with every single suggestion OP posted !
Great recap dude !

Sprinkles28

Though some UI elements should be changed, ZOS should ignore all request regarding combat UI. We've had this same discussion countless times. Please stop trying to make this MMO other MMOs. It would be sad if ZOS changed their system just for a few people screaming the same thing over and over again.

All For
Raid Notifications
Guild Mailing
Guild Store Search
Sale Recap - Name Sold Objects
Freedom to Move UI Elements
Lock Items
Saved Gear Sets (Not a big deal IMO)
Total Immersion (There is already a key to remove all elements from the screen)

Against
Nametags - Adds way to much clutter to the screen for little to no benefit. It takes a beautiful game and diminishes it and kills immersion. In groups, the arrows above players heads are more than enough to determine foe from friend. NPCs in town can be overwhelming at first, but after a few visits to any city, you learn and memorize NPC locations. Adding nametags to enemies takes away a huge aspect of this game. As it is, you actually have to pay attention! You can't just run through an area mindlessly avoiding the red nametags. You have to look. Enemies can hide behind trees, bushes, stones, etc. In dungeons it is awesome rounding a corner and being ambushed or miscounting how many enemies are in a room. Adding nametags would destroy this. They should never be allowed in ESO.

Alternative, I would suggest NPCs names (or healthbars) have different colors if you wanted to distinguish between friend or foe. This would be especially helpful with the Justice System knowing which NPCs you could kill and which you could not.

Minimap - The compass system works great. It has been a TES standard for many many years. This should not be ignored because a few gamers want it to be like other MMOs. There is also no considerable benefit to a minimap verses the compass. Both show you where to go for quests, both show you enemy locations. This to me seems like another change just to make it more like other MMOs.

Show Me The Numbers - Not necessary. Takes away from immersion. Clutters UI. Distracting in combat. People start caring more about their numbers than working as a group / team. Though I see benefits to seeing your numbers for helping build characters, and its fun to see when you crit, I don't think its necessary and just leads to more problems.

Alternative I'd add blood splatter to attacks. Blood comes off said enemy as you attack, light attacks equal less blood, heavy attacks more blood, while crits have blood hit your screen like Age of Conan's fatalities.

Absolutely Against
Buff/Debuff/Dot Tracking - This is easy mode / laziness. You take so much away from the game when adding this type of system. Learning how to time you abilities takes skill and adds so much to combat. Having a UI element tell you "dot is finished" is basically just having the game tell you what to do and when to do it. It takes the thinking out of the game completely. Furthermore, the clutter aspect alone is more than enough reason to leave it out. How many MMO boss fights have you fought when you see a boss's name (next to a stupid portrait) and then 5 lines of little boxes of buffs and debuffs. Not to mention you can't even find which ones are your buffs/debuffs. Not having this make the combat unique and interactive. Adding this system diminishes that.

DPS Meter - The heart and soul of elitist a--holes. The only foreseeable benefit is for builds and min/maxing. But this in itself leads to elitism and exclusion. There is already a problem with players being forced into builds. This will never change, it's a social issue not a gaming issue, but DPS meters take it to the next level. How many raids / dungeons have you been in where someone was booted because they didn't post high enough numbers? People need to focus on themselves and their ability to help the team, not stare at other people's numbers and tell them how to play. ESO doesn't have rage timers, doesn't have DPS checks all for a reason. It's so you can focus on working as a team and overcoming a challenge as a team. ESO should focus on community building, not community destruction. DPS Meters, like gear scores, are a destructive community tool.

Self Recount This is essentially a DPS Meter. Don't think for a second making it "personal" will stop people from posting it and wanting others to post their own.

Retro-compatibility - Add-ons are the sole responsibility of the add-on developer. If the developers change the code to optimize the system, why should they be held back because it's not "retro-compatible" with some 3rd party add-on? They shouldn't.

A wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion. You have no proof or facts to backup your claim that the UI is the reason for ESO's bad reputation. For starters, what is this bad reputation you speak of? Secondly, mad bugs and crazy bots had a lot more to do with anything negativity toward ESO than the UI ever did.

Though some of your suggestions would greatly benefit the community, your combat suggestions are just an attempt to make ESO like other MMOs. I find it refreshing that the interface doesn't include these. It makes the combat more enjoyable rather than staring at countless numbers. The interactions on screen give you all the feedback you need to play the game. Numbers and combat logs draw away from that and have many negative community impacts.

TehMagnus

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Against
Nametags - Adds way to much clutter to the screen for little to no benefit. It takes a beautiful game and diminishes it and kills immersion. In groups, the arrows above players heads are more than enough to determine foe from friend. NPCs in town can be overwhelming at first, but after a few visits to any city, you learn and memorize NPC locations. Adding nametags to enemies takes away a huge aspect of this game. As it is, you actually have to pay attention! You can't just run through an area mindlessly avoiding the red nametags. You have to look. Enemies can hide behind trees, bushes, stones, etc. In dungeons it is awesome rounding a corner and being ambushed or miscounting how many enemies are in a room. Adding nametags would destroy this. They should never be allowed in ESO.

They are Optional. Many people don't care about clutter or your immersion. No reason to be against this unless you want to force them to play your way? Not saying enemies should have nametags. In any case, devs are working on it already.

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Minimap - The compass system works great. It has been a TES standard for many many years. This should not be ignored because a few gamers want it to be like other MMOs. There is also no considerable benefit to a minimap verses the compass. Both show you where to go for quests, both show you enemy locations. This to me seems like another change just to make it more like other MMOs.

Once again, optional and Morrowind had a minimap so don't talk about TES standard please. Nobody will force you to enable it so it doesn't change anything for you and the code is already in place (maybe needs updating but the core is there already).

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Show Me The Numbers - Not necessary. Takes away from immersion. Clutters UI. Distracting in combat. People start caring more about their numbers than working as a group / team. Though I see benefits to seeing your numbers for helping build characters, and its fun to see when you crit, I don't think its necessary and just leads to more problems.

Alternative I'd add blood splatter to attacks. Blood comes off said enemy as you attack, light attacks equal less blood, heavy attacks more blood, while crits have blood hit your screen like Age of Conan's fatalities.

Besides the usual things (optional, don't force me to play like you), numbers are not distracting in combat , only people who don't understand them or how to use them would say that. They are actually quite helpful just like road signs would be, when trying to perform well. Moreover, I never spoke about combat cloud or combat log I pretty much said I was against it being integrated at first in the base UI, but numbers in HP/Magicka & Stamina bars <= bare minimum.

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Absolutely Against
Buff/Debuff/Dot Tracking - This is easy mode / laziness. You take so much away from the game when adding this type of system. Learning how to time you abilities takes skill and adds so much to combat. Having a UI element tell you "dot is finished" is basically just having the game tell you what to do and when to do it. It takes the thinking out of the game completely. Furthermore, the clutter aspect alone is more than enough reason to leave it out. How many MMO boss fights have you fought when you see a boss's name (next to a stupid portrait) and then 5 lines of little boxes of buffs and debuffs. Not to mention you can't even find which ones are your buffs/debuffs. Not having this make the combat unique and interactive. Adding this system diminishes that.

Don't mistake easy mode/laziness for "trying to have information about wtf is going on". Once again, optional, once again clutter is not an argument. You clearly have never tried this system if you believe it takes away from the fight. There is no way to effectively track DoTs & buffs in game and visual queues are useless when there are 10 ultis hitting the floor at the same time and you have 15 fps because of all that's flying around. It allows for complex rotations to be implemented that require skill & practice & that you couldn't be using without tracking buffs.

As for epicness & enjoying the combat, my fights are prolly 10x more epic than yours could ever be since I'm most of the times killing the bosses at the first try, my team is performing well since they know how to play and, thanks to those queues, they know what they are doing and if they are doing it right which means we all perform better as a group and the epic combat is crowned by epic success.

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

DPS Meter - The heart and soul of elitist a--holes. The only foreseeable benefit is for builds and min/maxing. But this in itself leads to elitism and exclusion. There is already a problem with players being forced into builds. This will never change, it's a social issue not a gaming issue, but DPS meters take it to the next level. How many raids / dungeons have you been in where someone was booted because they didn't post high enough numbers? People need to focus on themselves and their ability to help the team, not stare at other people's numbers and tell them how to play. ESO doesn't have rage timers, doesn't have DPS checks all for a reason. It's so you can focus on working as a team and overcoming a challenge as a team. ESO should focus on community building, not community destruction. DPS Meters, like gear scores, are a destructive community tool.

A DPS meter is an indication, it helps you know if you're doing stuff right or not, it helps you know if the small change you did actually allows you to pull more or less damage. It allows you to know if you're slacking or if you're doing your rotation perfectly. At last, when copying builds from the net, it allows you to know if you're doing it right (hitting same numbers as described in post or seen in X video) or if you still need more training. The only foreseeable benefit is playing better. The fact you can't link the DPS allows for people to use it as a personal tool to check self improvement and not as a "hit this number or GTFO" tool.

Regarding "posting numbers & getting kicked" when playing with hardcore groups it will happen in any case with or without this. And besides playing more than other players (which isn't totally true since I know many casuals with more gametime than hardcore players), guess what most of the players holding top 5 positions in leaderboards have as addons: Buff/Debuff tracking & DPS meter.

As for the bolded part: have you even played all the dungeons or end game content? All trial bosses have enrage timers and enrage modes after ~30%. Some of the bosses before the last boss have DPS checks: 3rd boss of AA, Manticora (will OS the team if you're too slow to kill the serpent upstairs), some dungeons have DPS runs as well. I think arena HM also has enrage timers for boss fights.

People are always complaining that those contents are too hard yet they don't have the tools to measure their performance and realize it's actually bad and that some stuff they do actually works better than other stuff. A personal DPS meter will allow people who want to improve but don't know/trust addons to see what works and what doesn't without having to "link" their DPS.

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Self Recount This is essentially a DPS Meter. Don't think for a second making it "personal" will stop people from posting it and wanting others to post their own.

It will as long as there is no function in the API that allows to exploit the numbers from Recount which I wouldn't be against. In any case, if they have to install an addont to link it, it's no different than installing an addon that does the recount & links it so there is really no difference.

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Retro-compatibility - Add-ons are the sole responsibility of the add-on developer. If the developers change the code to optimize the system, why should they be held back because it's not "retro-compatible" with some 3rd party add-on? They shouldn't.

Because any serious company does? Android does it, Apple does it with IOs, PHP does it, and so on.

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

A wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion. You have no proof or facts to backup your claim that the UI is the reason for ESO's bad reputation. For starters, what is this bad reputation you speak of? Secondly, mad bugs and crazy bots had a lot more to do with anything negativity toward ESO than the UI ever did.

Though some of your suggestions would greatly benefit the community, your combat suggestions are just an attempt to make ESO like other MMOs. I find it refreshing that the interface doesn't include these. It makes the combat more enjoyable rather than staring at countless numbers. The interactions on screen give you all the feedback you need to play the game. Numbers and combat logs draw away from that and have many negative community impacts.

For all the things that you claim to be against, they are all optional so they won't clutter your UI or harm your immersion. Bots weren't an issue, ZOS dealt with them swiftly. Bugs weren't an issue either, despite all the QQ around it, this game had many less launch bugs than many if not most other MMORPGs. Servers weren't down for a second and the "gamebreaking bugs (that impede advancement" where fixed maybe not as quickly as we would have wished but still quickly enough.

The proof & facts is that more than 50% of MMO competitive players and prolly more than 80% of the competitive PVP guilds(at least in EU) have quit the game as of today and the few that are still around keep quitting because of the combat mechanics and the dysfunctional user interface.

And bolder parts where you're wrong.

Ourorboros

Though some of your suggestions would greatly benefit the community, your combat suggestions are just an attempt to make ESO like other MMOs. I find it refreshing that the interface doesn't include these. It makes the combat more enjoyable rather than staring at countless numbers. The interactions on screen give you all the feedback you need to play the game. Numbers and combat logs draw away from that and have many negative community impacts.

All the suggested UI options were to have a toggle. You don't like combat UI, then leave it off, Player X likes some options for combat, he turns those on, etc. Simple concept, everybody wins. Why post against any UI OPTIONS if the idea is have the options available, pick the ones you like?

pppontus

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

ESO doesn't have rage timers, doesn't have DPS checks all for a reason. It's so you can focus on working as a team and overcoming a challenge as a team. ESO should focus on community building, not community destruction. DPS Meters, like gear scores, are a destructive community tool.

You have no clue. Almost, if not all, "real" end game content has DPS checks. If we did not have DPS meters this content would not be cleared today, both because people would not have bothered to put the effort into builds.. and because the raiding community would have not existed, because everyone interested in raids would have left the game asap.

In short, everything you said was wrong. The fact that these things aren't already implemented is bleeding subs for ZOS already.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Getting tired of the roleplaying/solo play/etc. crew. It's an MMO in the ES universum, so get used to it. If you want no group content, no challenges for groups, no way to optimize characters, no players that are better than you - go back to your precious Skyrim already and leave us alone, thanks.

edit: or deactivate the features you don't want (I'd even use addons that provide the functionalities I want, but sadly the AIP is restricted there), but don't force your playstyle on me. I don't do it either, have fun roleplaying.

Armitas

Some of these things would be great...and others...it boggles my mind why they were not included at release. Like the ability to track your dots and taunts. They put this taunt immunity if you over taunt and then provide no way to track your taunts.

I wanted to add a non necessity to the LFG tool that no other game is doing that I know of and would really help it work.

Example Craglorn. I need to get Shadas tear quest done so I queue up for that quest in the group tool. However of the 20 people who also need Shadas Tear none of them are queued and instead are queued up for other quests. And so we never get grouped.

Interface the grouping tool with the map. So that once I am queued up for Shadas Tear that location on the map will begin to shimmer. Now when anyone in craglorn pops open their map to use the way shrine or just to look it over they will see that I am queued up for that location by the slight shimmer in the corner of their eye. From the map they can now enter that same queue with a right click and see what role they are lacking. As the group gets bigger the icon shimmers more.

TehMagnus

pppontus wrote: »

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

ESO doesn't have rage timers, doesn't have DPS checks all for a reason. It's so you can focus on working as a team and overcoming a challenge as a team. ESO should focus on community building, not community destruction. DPS Meters, like gear scores, are a destructive community tool.

You have no clue. Almost, if not all, "real" end game content has DPS checks. If we did not have DPS meters this content would not be cleared today, both because people would not have bothered to put the effort into builds.. and because the raiding community would have not existed, because everyone interested in raids would have left the game asap.

In short, everything you said was wrong. The fact that these things aren't already implemented is bleeding subs for ZOS already.

Pretty much this.

Many people, me included, don't care about immersion or UI cluttering while doing end game content. Immersion is fine while exploring the world doing main quest, doign dungeons: easy stuff.

But for competitive gameplay it's useless. As long as it's optional and everybody is happy, I don't see the problem! And as for "Elitists forcing to post numbers" well you really can't stop them. If they want you to post numbers they will make you post them and exclude you if you don't, that's why they have the top positions in leaderboards.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Absolutely Against
Buff/Debuff/Dot Tracking - This is easy mode / laziness. You take so much away from the game when adding this type of system. Learning how to time you abilities takes skill and adds so much to combat. Having a UI element tell you "dot is finished" is basically just having the game tell you what to do and when to do it. It takes the thinking out of the game completely. Furthermore, the clutter aspect alone is more than enough reason to leave it out. How many MMO boss fights have you fought when you see a boss's name (next to a stupid portrait) and then 5 lines of little boxes of buffs and debuffs. Not to mention you can't even find which ones are your buffs/debuffs. Not having this make the combat unique and interactive. Adding this system diminishes that.

DPS Meter - The heart and soul of elitist a--holes. The only foreseeable benefit is for builds and min/maxing. But this in itself leads to elitism and exclusion. There is already a problem with players being forced into builds. This will never change, it's a social issue not a gaming issue, but DPS meters take it to the next level. How many raids / dungeons have you been in where someone was booted because they didn't post high enough numbers? People need to focus on themselves and their ability to help the team, not stare at other people's numbers and tell them how to play. ESO doesn't have rage timers, doesn't have DPS checks all for a reason. It's so you can focus on working as a team and overcoming a challenge as a team. ESO should focus on community building, not community destruction. DPS Meters, like gear scores, are a destructive community tool.

Didn't want to edit my post above.

DPS races - Crypt of Hearts endboss, that Gargoyle in vet Spindleclutch, third boss in AA. I guess there are some more, but you're totally wrong on your statement. DPS does HELP the team. If you don't do dps, you make it harder for everyone else. Maybe you don't care, but that doesn't changes that fact.

Buff/debuff "clutter" - I used to display my own debuffs in a seperate area, so it wan't hard to figure out my debuffs on the boss.

Armitas

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Absolutely Against
Buff/Debuff/Dot Tracking - This is easy mode / laziness. You take so much away from the game when adding this type of system. Learning how to time you abilities takes skill and adds so much to combat. Having a UI element tell you "dot is finished" is basically just having the game tell you what to do and when to do it. It takes the thinking out of the game completely. Furthermore, the clutter aspect alone is more than enough reason to leave it out. How many MMO boss fights have you fought when you see a boss's name (next to a stupid portrait) and then 5 lines of little boxes of buffs and debuffs. Not to mention you can't even find which ones are your buffs/debuffs. Not having this make the combat unique and interactive. Adding this system diminishes that.

What if you are the tank and have to maintain multiple mobs with identical appearance while making sure the taunt does not drop off a mob and that you don't retaunt the same mob you just taunted and cause him to become immune to that taunt and leave your control.

Or if you need to keep dots up on multiple enemies at the same time or if the enemy can cleanse the dots.

TehMagnus

Armitas wrote: »

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

Absolutely Against
Buff/Debuff/Dot Tracking - This is easy mode / laziness. You take so much away from the game when adding this type of system. Learning how to time you abilities takes skill and adds so much to combat. Having a UI element tell you "dot is finished" is basically just having the game tell you what to do and when to do it. It takes the thinking out of the game completely. Furthermore, the clutter aspect alone is more than enough reason to leave it out. How many MMO boss fights have you fought when you see a boss's name (next to a stupid portrait) and then 5 lines of little boxes of buffs and debuffs. Not to mention you can't even find which ones are your buffs/debuffs. Not having this make the combat unique and interactive. Adding this system diminishes that.

What if you are the tank and have to maintain multiple mobs with identical appearance while making sure the taunt does not drop off a mob and that you don't retaunt the same mob you just taunted and cause him to become immune to that taunt and leave your control.

Or if you need to keep dots up on multiple enemies at the same time or if the enemy can cleanse the dots.

Yeah, Ideally, you would be able to see, under each mobs healt bar, what active effects are on them and how long till they end..

Sprinkles28

@magnusnet Did I touch a nerve? LOL I see you getting all worked up and personally attacking me because you didn't like my points. I'll ignore all your personal attacks and try to point out another view.

Numbers. I did mention how numbers can be useful. I completely understand how they can help with your build. They are not needed for "complex" rotations as you stated. Nor do you have any proof or evidence to claim "many people don't care about clutter or your immersion." You act as if you speak for the entire planet. You speak for your own single minded OPINION. That's all anything you say is. It's an opinion. And though you are entitled to your opinion, it has no more weight than anyone else's opinion, including mine. My opinion differs from yours. Your opinion is its necessary for builds and rotations. My opinion is that its not necessary for builds and rotations and pulls your attention away from situation awareness. Which by the way, is for more important than numbers in difficult content.

Minimap - I never said TES standard. I said hasn't been with a mini map for a long long time. Which is true. No one forces me to use it now, but it's not necessary for the game. It has no clear benefit over the compass system. At least none that you have pointed out.

Nametags - All you've said so far are that these things are optional. You haven't given reasons why they are necessary or even beneficial. Why are they necessary? Is it too hard for you to look for your enemy? Do you need a big red arrow to show you where they are? I feel without these, it makes you more aware of you surroundings.

Buff/Debuff/Dot Tracking - Again, clutter is an argument, just not one you can argue against so you pass it off. Knowing "WTF" is going on, as you stated, can be accomplished many other ways. I'd like to see ESO continue to try and be different then other MMOs. All I see here is you attacking me like a 10 year old. But you have no argument other than it allows YOU as an individual to be more effective in your gaming.

DPS Meters - There have been plenty of games that don't have these. I agreed that they are useful to help build your character and min/max what you want. However, in most of the MMOs I've played (too many to list) I've seen how DPS Meters are destructive to the community. Far more destructive than constructive. Sure they help you with individual builds. But there are other ways to accomplish this.

As for DPS races. I only have a level 42 character. I have done all dungeons up to my level and have not experience any DPS checks or rage timers. I was unaware that they exist in end-game. That's sad because they are such a lazy mechanic and I was hoping for more in ESO. However, DPS Meters are not necessary to overcome these. Though as you said, its an quick and efficient way to test your build, you could also just try it in a dungeon and see.

Retro-compatibility. You are comparing apples to christmas trees. An Operating System (Android, Apple OS, etc) are applications that are specifically designed for 3rd party software to work. That is not even close to what you are claiming about a video game company being designed and developed for entertainment purposes.

Immersion - Yes I can turn all that crap off and I often do in every MMO I play. But my opinion was based on wanting to keep ESO different than other MMOs.

Bots weren't an issue you say? Mmmm. sure buddy. Bugs weren't an issue? Regardless of all your opinions, please show me the pole of all the people that have left ESO and claimed they did so because of the UI. Oh that's right, you can't can you. Youhave no evidence whatsoever that people left because of the UI. In fact, you have no idea why. You can speculate, but that's all. Stop screaming your opinion as facts.

The proof and facts are that more than 50% of MMO competitive players... bla bla bla. Where did you get this? Can I have your source reference? No? And why are you solely selecting competitive players. And what is your determination for competitive? Again, all just BS you claim with nothing to back it up.

Most of this reply was toward your outlandish claims of fact which are all just opinions. To break it down, basically you're opinion are these are necessary for ESO to succeed and be fun. My opinion is that they are not necessary at all. Have another tantrum if you want, but it's just your opinion at the end of the day.

@Ourorboros I did understand that these were all optional ideas, and I'd personally turn them all off, my argument and opinion is that a lot of these combat UIs like DPS Meters take away from being engaged and aware of the situation and are ultimately destructive toward the community. Basically, I think ESO has a great community. These forums are a great examples.

@pppontus As I stated before, my max is early 40s. I have done all dungeons to this point and was unaware they ESO's end-game is so different than leveling. So you claim that without DPS Meters people wouldn't bother with builds? They would just go with whatever was given to them? I don't think so. And without DPS Meters there would be no raiding community? yeah, also not factual at all. There are plenty of community that don't use meters and in fact others that prohibit them completely. Just because your community uses meters, don't claim that all do.

@r.jan_emailb16_ESO This has nothing to do with roleplaying/solo play/etc. Yeah its an MMO, but why do all MMOs have be the same? Why nametags? Why meters? Do you have any reasons other than other MMOs have it so I want it? And what a shame that so many of you have to resort to personal attacks. Just sad.

@Armitas I am a tank and part of the fun is paying attention to the situation happening on the screen rather than watching a bunch of numbers. Do I make mistakes and miss my taunt. Yup, but I get it right back before someone dies. Do I taunt prematurely before necessary, yup, do that too. But its much more enjoyable keep track off all this rather than watching a number tell me when I have to taunt again.

It seems to me that most of these arguments are based off the fact people can't keep track of what they are doing in-game without the game reading it off to them. Kinda sad actually. It's like you all need your hand held at every step. But no matter. I hope that ZOS doesn't listen to the few vocal people on here. But if they do, I'll continue to play anyway. Though I feel a lot of these additions you claim are necessary, will just leads ESO to a negative and destructive community.

Armitas

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

@Armitas I am a tank and part of the fun is paying attention to the situation happening on the screen rather than watching a bunch of numbers. Do I make mistakes and miss my taunt. Yup, but I get it right back before someone dies. Do I taunt prematurely before necessary, yup, do that too. But its much more enjoyable keep track off all this rather than watching a number tell me when I have to taunt again.

I don't think the average person will be able to track 4 or more separate and simultaneous counters on identical appearance mobs.

While it may be fun in the regular dungeons to mentally try and track the taunts while loseing control of mobs it won't be fun in trials when an axe or boss goes an wrecks someone causing him to die and increase the trial time forcing a disband and regroup for the leaderboards.

Slurg

@Sprinkles28‌ you say your only character is a level 42 and I can see your forum date is less than 2 months old. You have every right to your opinion. But please don't pretend that you know more about what the community wants than people who have experience with veteran characters and have been part of this community and its conversations since the beginning.

Calling people who want improvements to the UI "sad" people who want their "hand held" does not contribute to a positive community.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

A lvl 42 character does not really qualify for statements regarding end game, sorry. I don't mind granting you the experience you're looking for, but why can't you agree on the same for me and many others?

TehMagnus

Slurg wrote: »

@Sprinkles28‌ you say your only character is a level 42 and I can see your forum date is less than 2 months old. You have every right to your opinion. But please don't pretend that you know more about what the community wants than people who have experience with veteran characters and have been part of this community and its conversations since the beginning.

Calling people who want improvements to the UI "sad" people who want their "hand held" does not contribute to a positive community.

Pretty much. Untill VR10, ESO is just an easy game.

AngryNord

A minimap, and bigger skillbar, and I'd be satisfied.

Sprinkles28

@slurg A few members on the forums does not quality as the 'community.' The forums have always been a very vocal few. Though out many games, including ESO, you often find the forums a place for people to b*tch. Those happy with the system general don't sign on the forums just to say "hey this is awesome." The forums participants, whether yay or nay, are quite small in regards to overall population.

Nor did I call people who want different UI sad. I said personally attacking me because my view is different is sad, not people's opinions, wants or desires.

@r.jan_emailb16_ESO The UI does not solely depend on my experience with end-game. I don't believe the suggestions, such as DPS meters, are needed for leveling or end-game. Through past experience they cause far more problems than benefits.

@magnusnet Though I'm not veteran rank, I'd agree with this up to the content I've played. So far all encounters are very easy for my guild. Granted, we've been playing together for years. It also doesn't help our last MMO was Wildstar, which had harder end-game content than your average MMO, but we are enjoying ESO quite a bit and looking forward to more of a challenge at end-game.

Anyways, to sum everything up. As I stated before everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think some of the UI suggestions, like locking items from being sold would be great additions to the game. Other's I could do without, but don't care all that much, like Nameplates, and other's still like DPS Meters and Buff Bars I don't think should be allowed in the game at all, because of the negativity and destructive nature of said elements. I'm not sure how many times I can say the same thing. LOL

Razzak

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

...
Anyways, to sum everything up. As I stated before everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think some of the UI suggestions, like locking items from being sold would be great additions to the game. Other's I could do without, but don't care all that much, like Nameplates, and other's still like DPS Meters and Buff Bars I don't think should be allowed in the game at all, because of the negativity and destructive nature of said elements. I'm not sure how many times I can say the same thing. LOL

Nice to see you change your attitude.

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

It seems to me that most of these arguments are based off the fact people can't keep track of what they are doing in-game without the game reading it off to them. Kinda sad actually. It's like you all need your hand held at every step. But no matter. I hope that ZOS doesn't listen to the few vocal people on here. But if they do, I'll continue to play anyway. Though I feel a lot of these additions you claim are necessary, will just leads ESO to a negative and destructive community.

I do believe the OP stated in post #1 of this thread that the things you are arguing about would be optional.

You want to argue against these things being in the game, how they will somehow "ruin" the community, yada yada. Yet they are available as add-on's from third parties. So the "competitive" players are already using them and I don't notice the community degrading into a WoW cesspool just yet!

The simple fact of the matter is the OP is the only person who is continually bringing a consolidated, well-thought out, descriptive list of all the different UI "topics of interest" that exist. This post doesn't just represent your thoughts, but is a compilation of many different ideas that are posted in the one hundred threads throughout the forums. You are not going to like some things, and Joe Blow isn't going to like others. No need to get all bent out of shape. Wait until something actually gets implemented!

One other thing. Please, please, please get to end game, run pledges, DSA, trials, etc. before you comment on visual vs contextual notifications. Its like someone who buys a truck and proclaims to the world that it doesn't need four-wheel drive, knobby tires before they've ever actually taken it down a muddy road.

Afterall:

Sprinkles28 wrote: »

I hope that ZOS doesn't listen to the few vocal people on here.

Ourorboros

This thread has gone off-point. Instead of back and forth on what specific UI changes need to be made, how about focusing on trying to get any UI changes made? It was nice that this thread got official recognition, but that is a long way from having any changes implemented by ZOS. Let's try to win the war before we start the in-fighting over how to distribute the spoils.

Sprinkles28

@razzak I didn't change my attitude at all. My original post said just that.

@Ourorboros I agree that the topic isn't constructive at all. Too many people screaming I'm right and you're wrong.