DO NOT use updated ATLAS addon!

pppontus

Sindala wrote: »

They have a disclaimer stating you use addons at your own risk. They WONT give you your gold back as it wasn't anything to do with them or their game.

Well, they did. So you can stop presenting lies as facts.

TehMagnus

Sindala wrote: »

They have a disclaimer stating you use addons at your own risk. They WONT give you your gold back as it wasn't anything to do with them or their game.

They already gave the gold back to some players. What part of that don't you understand?

Sindala

pppontus wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

They have a disclaimer stating you use addons at your own risk. They WONT give you your gold back as it wasn't anything to do with them or their game.

Well, they did. So you can stop presenting lies as facts.

I seriously doubt that and wont believe any different until a Dev posts that they did return gold due to a piece of 3rd party software.

ZOS_AlexD

Hello, everyone, and thank you for bringing this to our attention. We're currently looking into this, but we'd like to take the opportunity to remind you to take every precaution necessary when downloading add-ons. We do not officially support add-ons and encourage players to be careful whenever they choose to download one.

Please also keep in mind that anytime you see suspicious behavior in-game, you should use the in-game report feature so that our GMs can investigate the issue fully and in a timely manner. Those reports help us gather any information needed for a thorough investigation and necessary actions.

Thank you!

TehMagnus

Sindala wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

They have a disclaimer stating you use addons at your own risk. They WONT give you your gold back as it wasn't anything to do with them or their game.

Well, they did. So you can stop presenting lies as facts.

I seriously doubt that and wont believe any different until a Dev posts that they did return gold due to a piece of 3rd party software.

It's not software. Please stop talking of things you don't understand >_<

TehMagnus

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

we'd like to take the opportunity to remind you to take every precaution necessary when downloading add-ons. We do not officially support add-ons and encourage players to be careful whenever they choose to download one.

Then please tell management they should invest in fixing the UI so we don't have to download addons to make the game playable.

OrangeTheCat

If one add-on can do that, then all are suspect. Another reason not to use ANY add-ons and urge ZOS to fix their crappy UI.

Ourorboros

I agree that addons shouldn't be allowed though, the game shouldn't need addons to be playable

.

So does that mean you think we should all suffer with what many of us consider to be a clunky default UI, or that ZOS should improve the UI with more features?
As I understand it, ZOS intentionally made a 'minimalist' UI both to provide a more immersive feel to the game and as a base that could be customized through add-ons using tools provided by ZOS. If we were stuck with only the default UI, you could probably say goodbye to a significant percentage of players.

Sindala

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

Hello, everyone, and thank you for bringing this to our attention. We're currently looking into this, but we'd like to take the opportunity to remind you to take every precaution necessary when downloading add-ons. We do not officially support add-ons and encourage players to be careful whenever they choose to download one.

Please also keep in mind that anytime you see suspicious behavior in-game, you should use the in-game report feature so that our GMs can investigate the issue fully and in a timely manner. Those reports help us gather any information needed for a thorough investigation and necessary actions.

Thank you!

And that is as best they can say 'User beware' and 'we do not refund gold'

I sit smugly in my own correctness

Orchish

Quite worrying.

TehMagnus

Ourorboros wrote: »

I agree that addons shouldn't be allowed though, the game shouldn't need addons to be playable

.

So does that mean you think we should all suffer with what many of us consider to be a clunky default UI, or that ZOS should improve the UI with more features?
As I understand it, ZOS intentionally made a 'minimalist' UI both to provide a more immersive feel to the game and as a base that could be customized through add-ons using tools provided by ZOS. If we were stuck with only the default UI, you could probably say goodbye to a significant percentage of players.

ZOS made a intentionally a minimalist UI because it's much cheaper than to have 2 or 3 people working full time on it to make it functional. (really makes one wonder what they did with the 200 millions initial investment). This has nothing to do with immersion since you can make a fully customizable UI that allows players who choose so, to be immersed and those who don't care about immersion to play effectively. This also would allow people to remove everything while moving or exploring the world and then to activate the functionalities when they enter dungeons or partake in raids.

Of course I mean ZOS should improve the UI . I'll be one of the first people to cancel sub if I was stuck with the default UI... I'll prolly make my monthly QQ post about the UI tomorrow.

Ourorboros

magnusnet wrote: »

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

we'd like to take the opportunity to remind you to take every precaution necessary when downloading add-ons. We do not officially support add-ons and encourage players to be careful whenever they choose to download one.

Then please tell management they should invest in fixing the UI so we don't have to download addons to make the game playable.

Someone knowledgable please tell me: Doesn't ZOS provide API tools/information/access that allow add-ons to be used? How can they say add-ons are not officially allowed if this is true. If add-ons were really not offically supported, wouldn't it be impossible to use them?

Tankqull

Ourorboros wrote: »

I agree that addons shouldn't be allowed though, the game shouldn't need addons to be playable

.

So does that mean you think we should all suffer with what many of us consider to be a clunky default UI, or that ZOS should improve the UI with more features?
As I understand it, ZOS intentionally made a 'minimalist' UI both to provide a more immersive feel to the game and as a base that could be customized through add-ons using tools provided by ZOS. If we were stuck with only the default UI, you could probably say goodbye to a significant percentage of players.

to quote from a popular tv-series: " ah, shud up beavis!"

what breaks your immersion in having your HUD elments movable, have additional sorting options in your BP, bank, guild bank, guildstore, activatable minimap etc.
i´m so fed up with this immerfascist behaviour when ever the ui is mentioned we are forced to get speach bubbles but not the slightest enhencement of the given crap ui its laughable

TehMagnus

Ourorboros wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

we'd like to take the opportunity to remind you to take every precaution necessary when downloading add-ons. We do not officially support add-ons and encourage players to be careful whenever they choose to download one.

Then please tell management they should invest in fixing the UI so we don't have to download addons to make the game playable.

Someone knowledgable please tell me: Doesn't ZOS provide API tools/information/access that allow add-ons to be used? How can they say add-ons are not officially allowed if this is true. If add-ons were really not offically supported, wouldn't it be impossible to use them?

By refusing to support addons, they release themselves from any responsibility involving the problems caused by the use of those addons.

This means that they could in fact choose to refuse to return the gold to the affected players even if there is no reason for them not to (and despite what Sindala apocalyptic claims, they are returning it because I suppose the problem isn't affecting thousands of players).

If tomorrow Wykkyd choses to break mayhem in players accounts who use his addons, I guess there wouldn't be much the GMs could do because of the amount of people impacted and they'd just say that you downloaded his tools at your own risk.

This is why since random loot deletions in Lineage 2, I regularly take screenshots of the valuable stuff in my game accounts .

Ourorboros

magnusnet wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

I agree that addons shouldn't be allowed though, the game shouldn't need addons to be playable

.

So does that mean you think we should all suffer with what many of us consider to be a clunky default UI, or that ZOS should improve the UI with more features?
As I understand it, ZOS intentionally made a 'minimalist' UI both to provide a more immersive feel to the game and as a base that could be customized through add-ons using tools provided by ZOS. If we were stuck with only the default UI, you could probably say goodbye to a significant percentage of players.

ZOS made a intentionally a minimalist UI because it's much cheaper than to have 2 or 3 people working full time on it to make it functional. (really makes one wonder what they did with the 200 millions initial investment). This has nothing to do with immersion since you can make a fully customizable UI that allows players who choose so, to be immersed and those who don't care about immersion to play effectively. This also would allow people to remove everything while moving or exploring the world and then to activate the functionalities when they enter dungeons or partake in raids.

Of course I mean ZOS should improve the UI . I'll be one of the first people to cancel sub if I was stuck with the default UI... I'll prolly make my monthly QQ post about the UI tomorrow.

@magnusnet, I should have taken a closer look at your signature....says it all xD.

pppontus

Sindala wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

They have a disclaimer stating you use addons at your own risk. They WONT give you your gold back as it wasn't anything to do with them or their game.

Well, they did. So you can stop presenting lies as facts.

I seriously doubt that and wont believe any different until a Dev posts that they did return gold due to a piece of 3rd party software.

Sindala wrote: »

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

Hello, everyone, and thank you for bringing this to our attention. We're currently looking into this, but we'd like to take the opportunity to remind you to take every precaution necessary when downloading add-ons. We do not officially support add-ons and encourage players to be careful whenever they choose to download one.

Please also keep in mind that anytime you see suspicious behavior in-game, you should use the in-game report feature so that our GMs can investigate the issue fully and in a timely manner. Those reports help us gather any information needed for a thorough investigation and necessary actions.

Thank you!

And that is as best they can say 'User beware' and 'we do not refund gold'

I sit smugly in my own correctness

Too bad you are still wrong. GMs have even contacted people who weren't aware that they had lost their gold, and refunded it right away

guybrushtb16_ESO

Ourorboros wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

we'd like to take the opportunity to remind you to take every precaution necessary when downloading add-ons. We do not officially support add-ons and encourage players to be careful whenever they choose to download one.

Then please tell management they should invest in fixing the UI so we don't have to download addons to make the game playable.

Someone knowledgable please tell me: Doesn't ZOS provide API tools/information/access that allow add-ons to be used? How can they say add-ons are not officially allowed if this is true. If add-ons were really not offically supported, wouldn't it be impossible to use them?

They never said they weren't allowed. Not being supported just means they generally won't help with addon issues and won't take responsibility if addons screw up anything or stop working.

Regarding the original issue, I am honestly surprised we didn't see this earlier already. Looking at the code, it's not even a complicated hack or anything, it really is the simplest form of attack you can think of; get current money -> attach money to mail -> sendmail basically. That is one thing that really shouldn't be left open in an api.

Ourorboros

They never said they weren't allowed. Not being supported just means they generally won't help with addon issues and won't take responsibility if addons screw up anything or stop working.

Saying add-ons are allowed but not officially supported seems kinda like giving someone the key to your house/bank/car/whatever and then saying it's not my fault if bad things happen.

AlexDougherty

magnusnet wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

They have a disclaimer stating you use addons at your own risk. They WONT give you your gold back as it wasn't anything to do with them or their game.

Well, they did. So you can stop presenting lies as facts.

I seriously doubt that and wont believe any different until a Dev posts that they did return gold due to a piece of 3rd party software.

It's not software. Please stop talking of things you don't understand >_<

I hate to break this to you, but apps are software.
They are programmes, and as such fall under software.

Anything to do with computers fails into either hardware (it has a physical existance) or Software (it's a programme).

yodased

The crux of the matter is there are glaring security holes in the API developed.

There is never a time when a script should be able to attach and send an asset, whatever asset that is, without user input.

Now this is only one level of security, because you could easily obfuscate the code and the have a work around when a player clicks a button to do x, your script does y as well.

Now the problem with having higher security measures is it lowers the UX of the average user.

You know how annoyed people got because they initiated a confirm delete from the mail system? Imagine that, but exponentially worse because properly done half the things addons do should require confirmation.

They knew that going in right, so they selectively choose which functions can be called passively, (no interaction) and which functions can be called actively (human interaction).

It's the choices they made about what to keep open and passive that really baffles me. Especially when you look at the restrictions put for no real reason.

Kraven

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

We do not officially support add-ons and encourage players to be careful whenever they choose to download one.

Not officially you see. They just advertise the ability to mod as a 'feature' of ESO, and create content that damn near requires the use of certain add ons.

Native UI is kept 'simplistic' so that you can customize it with add ons, translates into very little to no useful information in the built in UI once again promoting the use of add ons.

When asked repeatedly during development "Can we see...?" the answer was inevitably, "There's an add on for that." or occasionally "I'm sure there will be an add on for that as it sounds like a great idea!"

So clarification add ons are NOT supported by ZOS just highly, HIGHLY endorsed.

Kraven

Quick question. How many would notice if instead of sending every bit of your gold it sent 5g every time you opened your inventory? Or 10g once per day? 100g every time you switched characters?

Damn now I want to make an add on.

Sindala

Kraven wrote: »

Quick question. How many would notice if instead of sending every bit of your gold it sent 5g every time you opened your inventory? Or 10g once per day? 100g every time you switched characters?

Damn now I want to make an add on.

Who's to say I've not I mean somebody hasn't already done it, don't just have to be gold either

AlexDougherty

Kraven wrote: »

Quick question. How many would notice if instead of sending every bit of your gold it sent 5g every time you opened your inventory? Or 10g once per day? 100g every time you switched characters?

Damn now I want to make an add on.

I might notice, but only because I would eventually spot it on my inactive toons who are researching and getting mats in their mails. On my active toon, I probably wouldn't spot it, because money coming in would outweigh the small amounts you are talking about.

However ZOS would notice fairly quickly, hundreds of players mailing you money everyday, in ridiculously small amounts. I think that would raise all sorts of alarm bells, and they would investigate.

Slurg

Ourorboros wrote: »

Saying add-ons are allowed but not officially supported seems kinda like giving someone the key to your house/bank/car/whatever and then saying it's not my fault if bad things happen.

Exactly. After all this time I finally gave up hope that ZOS will ever improve their UI and downloaded some add-ons for the first time yesterday. The overwhelming evidence from everything I've seen and heard since launch is that ZOS unofficially does encourage add-ons. Add-ons are win win for them- they don't have to improve the UI because players use them (and belittle other players who don't) and they're an easy scapegoat to blame when anything goes wrong.

Then I saw this thread. I'll be uninstalling any of them that haven't been around for months and/or aren't maintained by the original creator.

TehMagnus

AlexDougherty wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

They have a disclaimer stating you use addons at your own risk. They WONT give you your gold back as it wasn't anything to do with them or their game.

Well, they did. So you can stop presenting lies as facts.

I seriously doubt that and wont believe any different until a Dev posts that they did return gold due to a piece of 3rd party software.

It's not software. Please stop talking of things you don't understand >_<

I hate to break this to you, but apps are software.
They are programmes, and as such fall under software.

Anything to do with computers fails into either hardware (it has a physical existance) or Software (it's a programme).

Addons are not apps. It's files of text that you add in a folder and that are executed by the software (aka the game). If your addon files where compiled into executable code then it would be software. This is not the case since "addons" (in this game) are instructions/commands that are read and executed by a precompiled software (or at least part of it: the API). <= This is why they can't harm your PC, at least not with the API limitations (thankfully).

Saying addons (edit: in this game) are software is like saying text formated into an XML or CSV document is software.

Beesting

Kraven wrote: »

Quick question. How many would notice if instead of sending every bit of your gold it sent 5g every time you opened your inventory? Or 10g once per day? 100g every time you switched characters?

Damn now I want to make an add on.

I have actually been thinking for a while this is happening for real.. Like a what happened to all those millions i made? It's not like i spent all my money on my GF like in real life...

Sindala

Kraven wrote: »

Quick question. How many would notice if instead of sending every bit of your gold it sent 5g every time you opened your inventory? Or 10g once per day? 100g every time you switched characters?

Damn now I want to make an add on.

Many a time I logged in and thought to myself...'im sure I had more Kuta than that...'

But trusting that Zeni would pick up on this being a problem before the player base told them about it??
The same Zeni that can't patch the game or takes several hours trying to patch a broken update before reverting it? yeah good luck with that

Tankqull

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Kraven wrote: »

Quick question. How many would notice if instead of sending every bit of your gold it sent 5g every time you opened your inventory? Or 10g once per day? 100g every time you switched characters?

Damn now I want to make an add on.

I might notice, but only because I would eventually spot it on my inactive toons who are researching and getting mats in their mails. On my active toon, I probably wouldn't spot it, because money coming in would outweigh the small amounts you are talking about.

However ZOS would notice fairly quickly, hundreds of players mailing you money everyday, in ridiculously small amounts. I think that would raise all sorts of alarm bells, and they would investigate.

that doesn´t even create bellrings in (rl) banks actually why do you think it would at zos...

yodased

you are going to write a superman 3 addon? How well did that work out for the guys in office space?