Suggestions for an eventual Khajiit-centric update

Gidorick

While it would be a pretty large undertaking (and likely isn't even in ZOS' radar), I think a game that has the scope of ESO really should be more inclusive when it comes to its depiction of the variations in the races of Tamriel. More than any other, the race-variation that has been most overlooked is that of the Khajiit.

The amount of additions that would be needed for a Khajiit–overhaul would likely best be accomplished by being the content of one of the updates. Possibly as Elsweyr is opened up the Khajiit culture and diversity can be introduced into ESO.

One of the goals of the update would be to introduce more of the Khajiit species into the world of ESO. It should be noted that only about half of the species of Khajiit would be suitable for Player Characters but that doesn’t mean they don’t have a place in ESO. A Khajiit update could include the following:

Character Creation:
A race sub-selection (breed?) menu to allow for players to make Biped Khajiit characters that are…

• Cathay: The Khajiit that can currently be created in ESO. Plantigrade Feet.
• Cathay-Raht: a larger, more ferocious Khajiit. Visually similar to werewolfs in stature. Likely with Digitigrade feet.
• Ohmes: a tail-less Khajiit breed. Pretty much a Bosmer body (without the antlers) and the skillset of a Khajiit. Plantigrade Feet.
• Ohmes-raht: Looks like a race of man but has a tail and has very fine fur. Plantigrade Feet.
• Suthay: A smaller species of Khajiit, about the size of the Bosmer but are much more catlike. Digitigrade feet.
• Suthay-Raht: Taller than the Suthay. About the size of man. Digitigrade feet.
• Tojay: A smaller, agile, magical breed of Khajiit. Similar to Suthay in stature but possibly more mer-like features. Digitigrade feet.
• Tojay-Raht: A bit larger than the Tojay. Plantigrade Feet.

Having digitigrade legs could simply mean that character cannot wear boots but the tradeoff might be increased speed and jump height/distance. All these variations might be able to be included with a separate set of Khajiit specific sliders that can take the form from one Khajiit breed to the next without having to make a hard-choice of what Khajiit breed you are making.

A size comparison made by @Robo_Hobo and tweaked slightly by me.


Mounts:
These quadruped mounts would be specific to the Khajiit-race as they would never abide being ridden by any other race. They cannot speak:

• Senche: Large horse sized Khajiit. They are intelligent but do not speak. They "let" others ride on them and the relationship is more a partnership than an ownership. Senche forelegs are about 1.5X the length of their hind legs, giving them ape-like proportions. (NOTE: Players will be getting Senche mounts and non Khajiit Senche-Cat upon the release of ESO: Tamriel Unlimited.)
• Saber-Cats: Wild cats that aren't Khajiit but have been tamed for mount purposes. We have seen such cats in Skyrim and there could be various forms of Saber-Cats with Saber-Panthers and Saber-Tigers. The physical difference between the Senche-Cats and the Saber-Cats is primarily the elongated fangs and mangy appearance of the Saber-Cats.

Pets:
A plethora of pet variations could be released. It would be ideal for these pets to be utility pets and not just vanity pets since these Khajiit are very intelligent and are able to understand speech, but cannot speak it themselves. These pets shouldn’t be limited to Khajiit players. Any player should be able to befriend these quadruped Khajiit:

• Alfiq: Looks very much like a housecat.
• Alfiq-Raht: Quite a bit larger than the Alfiq but similar in ability. Possibly more aggressive and predatory. About the size of a lynx.

The variations on these pets would be tied into their color and fur pattern.

NPCs:
There are a few breeds of Khajiit that wouldn’t really be suitable for player characters but can speak so would make for some good conversation.

• Dagi: These medium size Khajiit that primarily live in trees. They are partially bipedal and have opposable thumbs on their front paws. They are adept at magic and tend to be playful and mischievous and are wonderful thieves. Digitigrade rear feet and possibly have a prehensile tail.
• Dagi-Raht: Larger than the Dagi, these Khajiit also live in trees and are adept at magic but are less lighthearted and more aggressive then the Dagi. Would likely make good assassins. They have Digitigrade rear feet but do not have a prehensile tale.
• Pahmar: These quadruped Khajiit look pretty much like tigers, but can speak and likes to wear armor/clothes. They are often companions of Khajiit.
• Pahmar-Raht: A larger, more aggressive form of the Pahmar. These Khajiit don’t play well with others and are not likely to be found organized in groups. They tend to roam about, attacking whatever comes their way. Although they can speak, their vocabulary tends to be limited.
• Mane: The single Mane can be seen as the “KING” of the Khajiit. Large and imposing, the Mane commands respect, answers to no one and is prideful, arrogant and unrelenting.

War-Mounts:

• Senche-raht: Quite a bit larger than the Senche, about the size of a elephant, tiger proportioned with the same length fore-legs and hind-legs. They have also been called “Battlecats” because of their use in war. If there were ever War-Mounts added to ESO the Senche-raht would be a good choice for the Aldmeri Dominion.

Motif

• Armor of the Mane: This armor would be made of a menagerie of Khajiit fur. Similar to how the Mane wears the fur of other Khajiit, the Armor of the Mane could be a light or medium armor that grants the wearer stealth bonuses.

Skooma:
A large part of the Khajiit culture, which has a rather negative stigma attached, is their manufacturing and love of the drug Skooma, which is made from Refined Moon Sugar.

If you'd like to review a concept on how Skooma could be handled in ESO, please visit the following thread:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/141857/skooma-concept-suggestion?new=1

While it’s true that this would be a HUGE amount of content to bring to ESO, it would really do the Khajiit justice and would satisfy a large group of Khajiit fans that would love to explore the various types of Khajiit. Not to mention it would, for the first time, have a TES game that didn’t just explain away why their Khajiit look the way they do but instead it brings the established lore to life.

A pretty detailed breed chart for the Khajiit by Lyhli on Deviant Art:


A good depiction of some of the Khajiit breeds by Scetch3409 on Deviant Art:


A Size Comparison Chart I whipped up based on lore and discussions on here:

A render of a Cathay-Raht tiger-type Khajiit:


Thoughts?

Lionxoft

They can't do that because once the Justice System is live all the Khajiit will die.

Gyudan

@Gidorick I was looking for skooma and was very disappointed.

Gidorick

Gyudan wrote: »

@Gidorick I was looking for skooma and was very disappointed.

GAH! You're right!!! There MUST be a Skooma manufacturing/trade included with this. I'll make an addition.

Thank you!

AngryNord

Put in angry Rottweilers that can chase all the cats away :P

Rosveen

Alfiq aren't pets, dammit. Let's not reinforce this stereotype.

Gidorick

Rosveen wrote: »

Alfiq aren't pets, dammit. Let's not reinforce this stereotype.

While you're right, within the context of ESO, I think the pet system is a good way to handle the Alfiq. IF we ever get a companion slot for an NPC companion, then I would think they would be better as a companion.

Rosveen

Gidorick wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Alfiq aren't pets, dammit. Let's not reinforce this stereotype.

While you're right, within the context of ESO, I think the pet system is a good way to handle the Alfiq. IF we ever get a companion slot for an NPC companion, then I would think they would be better as a companion.

I'd rather not see them at all than see them handled badly (well, technically they're already in the game, just not described as such - and I like it). Make them pets once and for years to come people will think of them as nothing more than cats. See what happened to senche: in The Infernal City they were brothers, in ESO they're feral tigers with a sweet tooth, even when described by fellow Khajiit. I'm still confused if they're supposed to be real senche or normal animals, like housecats are to Alfiq. Those in Sleepy Senche Overlook seem to be the only intelligent ones.

Zorrashi

While I'm all for expanding on khajiiti culture to be seen in ESO, there is one slight issue with your idea: the sub-species of khajiit that you want to make available to players.

That's like, what? Eight new model types that are exclusive not only to the AD (unless you have the explorers pack) but to the khajiit race too. As cheesy and lame as it may sound, it doesn't really seem....fair. It would be one thing if they were just NPCs but as character played models? Almost seems like favoritism toward only one race (and by extension, one faction if you exclude those with the explorers pack) out of the variety we have available.

At least with things like mounts and pets that should debatably only be exclusive to khajiits, we could always have the ability to give the other races/faction another variety of mount and pet available to them as well so that they don't feel left out.

NotSo

Im not going to argue the technical implications on having so many character models in a sub category.
I f***ing want this in the game and if Zenimax is willing to take on this idea and make it polish, so much of the early player base would flood back

Gidorick

Zorrashi wrote: »

...That's like, what? Eight new model types that are exclusive not only to the AD (unless you have the explorers pack) but to the khajiit race too. As cheesy and lame as it may sound, it doesn't really seem....fair. It would be one thing if they were just NPCs but as character played models? Almost seems like favoritism toward only one race (and by extension, one faction if you exclude those with the explorers pack) out of the variety we have available.

At least with things like mounts and pets that should debatably only be exclusive to khajiits, we could always have the ability to give the other races/faction another variety of mount and pet available to them as well so that they don't feel left out.

Well, ideally, the variations in species would be handled with a set of sliders and not just a pull-down menu. With the sliders we would be able to make a Khajiit that kind of looks like one breed of Khajiit and kind of looks like another too. We wouldn't have a cut & dry selection. It might not be clear if that Khajiit is an Ohmes-rhat and that Khajiit is a Tojay... there would end up being some questions as to what the sub-race a character is.

There WOULD be a few this-or-that type options like... tail or no-tail. No tail would obviously be Ohmes. Plantigrade or Digitigrade feet would also be a distinguisher but that distinction varies between the various breeds.

There would, however have to be things that are locked out with certain feature selections. If you selected no-tail then your character wouldn't have fur, could only have plantgrade feet, the "snout-protrusion" slider would be very small in comparison to the other Khajiit breeds, the height would be locked to be under a certain size and the ear-height slider would only allow for low-set ears like those that are on Bosmer. This is so we couldn't make a huge hairless, no tail, digitigrade Khajiit that looks like a Cathay-raht with mange.

I briefly mentioned this concept in the OP.

As for the "fairness" of all this. I really don't think there's anything unfair about this. I think the Khajiit racial abilities should remain the same for ALL the breeds of Khajiit, so functionally, there aren't going to be more "races" running about, just more variation of one of the races.

I have other ideas for other race-specific "overhauls" that would include mounts and such. Such as a large-reindeer type Bosmer mount. It wouldn't look right for a Nord to be riding on a reindeer. A Nord would look best on a bear! But these are just general thoughts and I haven't put the time into research like I have the Khajiit. The Khajiit was simply the most glaring and varied example of where ESO could improve on it's racial selection.

Gidorick

ian92415b14_ESO wrote: »

Im not going to argue the technical implications on having so many character models in a sub category.
I f***ing want this in the game and if Zenimax is willing to take on this idea and make it polish, so much of the early player base would flood back

I agree. There's a LOT of possibilities here and I for one don't think the "technical limitations" is ever really a good reason or excuse to not implement concepts such as these. Additional content takes manpower, resources, and time. Zenimax told us ESO was a premium MMO and that is why we have a subscription so I would think they could make the effort to produce premium content such as this.

Gidorick

Gyudan wrote: »

@Gidorick I was looking for skooma and was very disappointed.

I wrote up a Skooma concept. It's kind of beefy. I put a link in the main body of the OP and a link is below:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/141857/skooma-concept-suggestion?new=1

ers101284b14_ESO

Justice System + Housing = You being my rug

Palindrome

I honestly do not see how we even have time to think about this let alone implement it with all of the REAL issues currently on live.
balance
bugs
lag
just to name a few that should be taking priority not only in our comments to ZOS but also in their efforts to improve the game

kijima

Sure, you can have some tailoring to Khajits and get some more love, just as long as fur balls are added to your racial lines.

I'd love to be in the middle of Battle with a Khajit, only to find he/she has to back away from the fight and start coughing up hair balls.

MrGhosty

There are variations of argonians as well, I don't know the specifics just what they showed in concept art of Black Marsh. I think this much variation would muddy the waters too much, but having some alternate options added to all the races would be nice. Impressive amount of work you put in on that, kudos to you.

zaria

Rosveen wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Alfiq aren't pets, dammit. Let's not reinforce this stereotype.

While you're right, within the context of ESO, I think the pet system is a good way to handle the Alfiq. IF we ever get a companion slot for an NPC companion, then I would think they would be better as a companion.

I'd rather not see them at all than see them handled badly (well, technically they're already in the game, just not described as such - and I like it). Make them pets once and for years to come people will think of them as nothing more than cats. See what happened to senche: in The Infernal City they were brothers, in ESO they're feral tigers with a sweet tooth, even when described by fellow Khajiit. I'm still confused if they're supposed to be real senche or normal animals, like housecats are to Alfiq. Those in Sleepy Senche Overlook seem to be the only intelligent ones.

You are thinking of the named cats in Khajiit areas, yes pretty much has to be Alfiq.
Also agree with the Senche, you also have some friendly ones at the Khajiit AD starting island.

Problem with Alfiq pets is that they can use magic something who would make them more like combat pets. Same with an Senche,
Yes Khajiit should have one at each as followers but that would make them a bit OP.

NotSo

@Zaria Well would you be against just a visual spell effect? The loyal dwarven sphere has its own animation just of collapsing and standing up.

zaria

Palindrome wrote: »

I honestly do not see how we even have time to think about this let alone implement it with all of the REAL issues currently on live.
balance
bugs
lag
just to name a few that should be taking priority not only in our comments to ZOS but also in their efforts to improve the game

Content updates are pretty unrelated to bug fixes.

An Argonian focused questing area is coming with an new race who will not be playable. Another area set in Elsewheyr is pretty plausible.
Note that zones and dungeons don't add much global bugs to the game bugs here are local.

I would love an playable Khajiit race with digitgrade legs, but I don't think we get it if not done already for Khajiit and Argonian, as other say it would be too much work just for an new race.

The size slider then creating caracters already gives some freedom.
Giving it more span for Khajiit would make sense as they have far more size variation than other races.

Hypertionb14_ESO

impressive....

but no...

Enodoc

I'd love to see the other Khajiit 'breeds' when Quin'rawl and Tenmar open up, but I don't think they should be an option for player characters.

Also, all Khajiit currently in ESO are officially Suthay-raht, url="http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2012/12/10/ask-us-anything-aldmeri-dominion-part-1"]source[/url, although I realise that conflicts with Morrowind's Suthay-raht which were digitigrade. I know a common theory is that those in Oblivion and Skyrim were actually Cathay; does anyone know whether that was ever confirmed one way or the other?

I don't think there are any Alfiq in ESO yet - just a lot of cats. (Khajiit can still have cats, just because they're Khajiit, doesn't mean every small feline has to be Alfiq.)

Gidorick

Palindrome wrote: »

I honestly do not see how we even have time to think about this let alone implement it with all of the REAL issues currently on live.
balance
bugs
lag
just to name a few that should be taking priority not only in our comments to ZOS but also in their efforts to improve the game

Eh. I disagree...

I don't believe the entire ZOS team is working on bugs and fixes. They have artists, modelers, writers and designers that are doing.... something. And these posts are more for those types of projects. Not working on server stability.

NotSo

I think you can lump the modelers in with the artists, it is art after all

Gidorick

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

impressive....

but no...

Lol. Thanks. Is there a reason for the "no"? Should ESO not expand into the lore of Tamriel further? Do you think it would negatively impact the game?

Govalon

Gidorick wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

impressive....

but no...

Lol. Thanks. Is there a reason for the "no"? Should ESO not expand into the lore of Tamriel further? Do you think it would negatively impact the game?

My reason is that I hate khajits. They are just stupid smelly cats and very annoying. I am interested in every other race in ES but khajits. I hope they spend more time revealing lore of all other races instaed. I really hope that in future ES single player games khajits have been killed off the face of tamriel during a war or something. That would improve the series tremendously.

NotSo

Sounds like a High Elf

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

I'd love to see the other Khajiit 'breeds' when Quin'rawl and Tenmar open up, but I don't think they should be an option for player characters.

Also, all Khajiit currently in ESO are officially Suthay-raht, url="http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2012/12/10/ask-us-anything-aldmeri-dominion-part-1"]source[/url, although I realise that conflicts with Morrowind's Suthay-raht which were digitigrade. I know a common theory is that those in Oblivion and Skyrim were actually Cathay; does anyone know whether that was ever confirmed one way or the other?

I don't think there are any Alfiq in ESO yet - just a lot of cats. (Khajiit can still have cats, just because they're Khajiit, doesn't mean every small feline has to be Alfiq.)

WHAT? They're suthay-raht? Consider my mind blown!

Well.... shoot. I'm at a loss for words. Perhaps the birth chart by Lyhli is correct. It shows each type of humanoid Khajiit having plantigrade and digitigrade variations.

Personally, I think the development team should just say. "Oops! We were wrong. The Khajiit in ESO are Cathay! Sorry about that. "

It's easier to just admit a mistake them to try to change or justify lore differences in the established (and base canon) lore of the main TES series.

I really think ZOS is simply mistaken but I would be 100% fine with this never being clarified, as long as we get the option to have digitigrade Khajiit in the future.

The idea of sliders to make the Khajiit variations would work towards the idea of not explicitly labeling the type of Khajiit a player creates. I like that idea. It's a more fluid and natural way to vary the breeds.

My personal feeling about having NPCs that can't be player characters is that it's whatever fits the lore. I would LOVE to play the Naga race but if they don't venture outside of Murkmire it wouldn't make sense to have them wandering about High Rock.

BBSooner

How about we all get access to a Khajiit sla... err ... "companion" ... that has extra bag space, does all my mining and plant picking, and when things turn south I can use as fodder while I escape.

zaria

Enodoc wrote: »

I'd love to see the other Khajiit 'breeds' when Quin'rawl and Tenmar open up, but I don't think they should be an option for player characters.

Also, all Khajiit currently in ESO are officially Suthay-raht, url="http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2012/12/10/ask-us-anything-aldmeri-dominion-part-1"]source[/url, although I realise that conflicts with Morrowind's Suthay-raht which were digitigrade. I know a common theory is that those in Oblivion and Skyrim were actually Cathay; does anyone know whether that was ever confirmed one way or the other?

I don't think there are any Alfiq in ESO yet - just a lot of cats. (Khajiit can still have cats, just because they're Khajiit, doesn't mean every small feline has to be Alfiq.)

However cats in Khajiit areas have Khajiit style names, the others are just "cat"

Enodoc

zaria wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'd love to see the other Khajiit 'breeds' when Quin'rawl and Tenmar open up, but I don't think they should be an option for player characters.

Also, all Khajiit currently in ESO are officially Suthay-raht, url="http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2012/12/10/ask-us-anything-aldmeri-dominion-part-1"]source[/url, although I realise that conflicts with Morrowind's Suthay-raht which were digitigrade. I know a common theory is that those in Oblivion and Skyrim were actually Cathay; does anyone know whether that was ever confirmed one way or the other?

I don't think there are any Alfiq in ESO yet - just a lot of cats. (Khajiit can still have cats, just because they're Khajiit, doesn't mean every small feline has to be Alfiq.)

However cats in Khajiit areas have Khajiit style names, the others are just "cat"

Not all of them, there's a bunch of named cats throughout the game. It makes sense though that Khajiit name theirs with Khajiit names, just like Bretons would name theirs with Breton names, and so on.