Too Much Magic!

mjsegaline

I love magic, and even more then that I love TES. I understand this is a high fantasy game, but right now I feel like there is way too much magic. Playing as a mage has completely lost its appeal in this game, because to put it frankly, every single person in the game is a mage. There is nothing mysterious or special about playing your mage, because every single person in your group is flinging fireballs, or immolating everything around them. Not only is this ridiculous, it is completely lore breaking.

From a lore aspect, everyone in Tamriel did not know magic! Magic was made more available to the general public by the mages guild, but it took years of study and training to use magic. You did not just walk in to your local mages guild and walk out tossing fireballs. Being a mage required skill, talent, study and dedication. The way things are set up kills the feeling of magic. I feel more like I am playing some version of Clash of the Gods. It cheapens the experience.

I think it's the core concept of classes. Yes, I understand you can go out of your way to avoid your class entirely, and use only stamina abilities, but not only are you gimping yourself, those abilities are far and in between. Nobody is going to totally avoid their class skills. So you are inevitably stuck in an environment where every player is a mage. I don't care if you are carrying a broadsword, when you are throwing spears of light, immolating everything around you, and breathing fire, you are a mage!

Even the fighters guild skill lineup is magical! Yes, I know they use stamina, but they even look like magic. Magical runes on the ground and what not. Give me a break, did the designers even play TES? I love this game, but this really frustrates me. I have no interest at all in playing my "mage" character in this game. Am I the only one??

Magdalina

Haha, I think your main problem is that unlike other TES games, this one is an MMO. So while in previous game you were one and special hero for whom having OP magic powers was completely fine, now EVERYONE is a special hero.

I can see where you come from, but honestly don't think there's any possible way out of that. Just...try not to focus on the abilities and their visuals so much maybe? They're all just means to an end after all;)

Deheart

In a way, I do agree. Mele/bow attacks without the spells are useless for most of the dps. You need to use the spells for the weapons, even if the power source is stamina it is basicly the same as magic.

In skyrim I could go around with just my swords or bow and use no spells and still kick ass. Not in this game.

Wicked_Wolf

Magdalina wrote: »

Haha, I think your main problem is that unlike other TES games, this one is an MMO. So while in previous game you were one and special hero for whom having OP magic powers was completely fine, now EVERYONE is a special hero.

I can see where you come from, but honestly don't think there's any possible way out of that. Just...try not to focus on the abilities and their visuals so much maybe? They're all just means to an end after all;)

Nah I don't think that's it. I've played a lot of MMO's and this is the only one where I can't play (effectively) my favorite playstyle. A pure two handed dps warrior that uses no magic at all. Sure, you can essentially do what you want, but that doesn't mean it will serve you well at endgame. There's a reason you see light armor and staves everywhere you look. Look at the light armor "tanks" out there.

SienneYviete

Wicked_Wolf wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Haha, I think your main problem is that unlike other TES games, this one is an MMO. So while in previous game you were one and special hero for whom having OP magic powers was completely fine, now EVERYONE is a special hero.

I can see where you come from, but honestly don't think there's any possible way out of that. Just...try not to focus on the abilities and their visuals so much maybe? They're all just means to an end after all;)

Nah I don't think that's it. I've played a lot of MMO's and this is the only one where I can't play (effectively) my favorite playstyle. A pure two handed dps warrior that uses no magic at all. Sure, you can essentially do what you want, but that doesn't mean it will serve you well at endgame. There's a reason you see light armor and staves everywhere you look. Look at the light armor "tanks" out there.

Dunno about you but I have been seeing a lot more Legolas clones lately rather than light armor tanks.

Samadhi

Regardless of what weapon a player chooses, they have available 5 Weapon skills and 15 Class spells.

This game is heavily weighted towards Magicka usage.

Interested to see what happens when they give some Class skills Stamina morphs.

Voodoo

yep agree. I alwasy play a healer (magic heavy character) but in this game I got so tired of seeing everyone in skirts and stick I stopped healing and jumped into a leather / stamina / bow role. I now am forced to play solo due to "not being good enough" for groups. I know they are trying to change this but still this is a magika based game and with that we are all magika dependeant characters, ie. ...NOT playing the way you want and definatley NO sense of unique builds.

Very boring character building blocks. They should have abolished classes, and allowed us to choose what class/resource we want to use. ...Now thats "Play the way you want".

tplink3r1

agreed.
even the NPCs are 90% mages who can open portals with little effort.

PBpsy

No, what we have it's to much [snip] orcs, nords, redguards in [snip] red imperial heavy armor wielding [snip] two handed [snip] swords [snip]
lamenting about how [snip] original, [snip] special and [snip] discriminated against they are.

It is kind of fumy that people talk about the overabundance of magicka builds when everyone I see is a special snowflake stam build.Really from what I have seen only 1 in about 20 NB is actually not a DW/blow satm ranger.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Voodoo

troll /\

PBpsy

Voodoo wrote: »

troll /\

Why, thank you!

mjsegaline

I am glad I am not the only one, saw another post from someone else about this the other day. Had everyone arguing that in Tamriel everyone used magic. Love it when people don't know the lore...

david.haypreub18_ESO

I had the same criticisms since beta.

There is no good reason why all class skills have to use magicka, nor why we can't have stamina ultimates. This was just a poor design decision that is unfortunately undermining the popularity of the game.

Zorrashi

Yes, yes, I know in Tamriel magic was a more reclusive art. Sometimes feared and detested in one region while coveted in others. But even then magic was still 'rare' in comparison to non-magic users none the less.

But could you imagine the uproar if magic was hard to achieve? Among the reasons ESO is set in this timeline is so they could have a sort 'lore excuse' to make magic widely available, with Vanus Galerion making magic much more available to the public via the mage's guild who provided public services.

I know even class skills rely on magic rather than stamina (I want that changed too...just a little) , but tinkering with bits of lore for general enjoy-ability is actually highly beneficial to the game.

Ommamar

So what will we do when spell crafting comes along and everyone has a store of spell tablets they are constantly using (this is my understanding of how it will work based off video presentations I have seen ESO make)

mjsegaline

Zorrashi wrote: »

Yes, yes, I know in Tamriel magic was a more reclusive art. Sometimes feared and detested in one region while coveted in others. But even then magic was still 'rare' in comparison to non-magic users none the less.

But could you imagine the uproar if magic was hard to achieve? Among the reasons ESO is set in this timeline is so they could have a sort 'lore excuse' to make magic widely available, with Vanus Galerion making magic much more available to the public via the mage's guild who provided public services.

I know even class skills rely on magic rather than stamina (I want that changed too...just a little) , but tinkering with bits of lore for general enjoy-ability is actually highly beneficial to the game.

I totally get what you are saying, but lets for a minute imagine that it was more difficult to achieve magical talent in ESO. Like for example if you had to work your way up in the mages guild to learn spells, and that the spells had strict casting requirements like in Morrowind (magicka/skill requirements to cast). How much more fun would that be to achieve those abilities? How much more fun would spellcrafting be when it comes into the game, and finally how much cooler would that make peoples characters?

In Tamriel, every living being was born with some type of magical ability. This is true. With time and training anyone can LEARN to cast. This part is true in the lore. However, the lore goes on to state that not everyone is created equal. Magical ability differs from race to race, and man to man. One man who is weak in magical ability might take months to learn simple magic's, while an Altmer student would grasp concepts and wield magic's much faster then her peers.

The point is, you did not just walk in to the mages guild and purchase a spell and walk out casting it. Magic required skill, talent, affinity and most importantly practice/study. It took years to wield powerful magic's in most individuals. Even learning a novice, simple spell required practice and study. This was represented since Daggerfall and Morrowind in the way they handled spell failure. Without the proper skill in Morrowind, you would fail the spell and consume your precious magicka 90 percent of the time.

mjsegaline

Ommamar wrote: »

So what will we do when spell crafting comes along and everyone has a store of spell tablets they are constantly using (this is my understanding of how it will work based off video presentations I have seen ESO make)

The way spellcrafting will work is like this. Spellcrafting can only be done when you are done with the mages guild and mastered the mages guild skill line. However, spellcrafters can make tablets for other people who have not done the mages guild quests. When these tablets are used, you learn that version of the spell permanently. There will also be the new schools added to your list. So if I learn someone's version of fireball, it will make the destruction tree available to me. Which I can level up for various benefits and what not, just like any other skill line.

However, what I am not sure about is whether there will be requirements for learning or using spells that you may have learned from someone else's tablet. For example, if I have absolutely no points in magicka and have not done a single mages guild quest, will I be able to learn someone's powerful conjure flame atronarch tablet, or will I be able to learn it but just not use it?

Evergnar

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I had the same criticisms since beta.

There is no good reason why all class skills have to use magicka, nor why we can't have stamina ultimates. This was just a poor design decision that is unfortunately undermining the popularity of the game.

Agree and what concerns me is how little has been done about it. All the new content seems to be designed primarily for magicka based builds.

I still feel there needs to be 3 pools magika, stamina, endurance to equal things out. It just seems like a simpler solution especially down the road.

Frenkthevile

I think they put so many spells in the game...because, honestly, they cannot do proper combat moves: look at the animations we have got for 2handed or dual-wield!
I think they are not the moves that a master assassin would do, they're just...dunno...swinging swords like a farmer does with a pitchfork.
But fireworks...evryone can create fireworks, yay!

Xjcon

Have any of you read what ZOS said they are doing to Magic and stamina? I think you get your wish.....

I personally don't care, I like a game for what it is not for what I think the games before it were....

Ommamar

mjsegaline wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

So what will we do when spell crafting comes along and everyone has a store of spell tablets they are constantly using (this is my understanding of how it will work based off video presentations I have seen ESO make)

The way spellcrafting will work is like this. Spellcrafting can only be done when you are done with the mages guild and mastered the mages guild skill line. However, spellcrafters can make tablets for other people who have not done the mages guild quests. When these tablets are used, you learn that version of the spell permanently. There will also be the new schools added to your list. So if I learn someone's version of fireball, it will make the destruction tree available to me. Which I can level up for various benefits and what not, just like any other skill line.

However, what I am not sure about is whether there will be requirements for learning or using spells that you may have learned from someone else's tablet. For example, if I have absolutely no points in magicka and have not done a single mages guild quest, will I be able to learn someone's powerful conjure flame atronarch tablet, or will I be able to learn it but just not use it?

I just watched the video presentation from Quake Con. That is not what I took from it. Basically once you find the tablet you take a charcoal imprint of it then go to the guy who transcribes it on to your personal version of that tablet which makes the knowledge of how to craft that spell permanent. Then you can make versions of the tablets for other to use but not learn so they will cast the spell to get the effect that will last for an unspecified amount of time. It is tied it to the champion system in that you can raise passives of a specific school of magic making the spell you get from the spell crafter more effective. But you don't learn the school of magic by using the tablet, you have to use a champion point to open up that constellation. Anyway maybe another thread as this has to do with magic and it's prevalence in this version of Tamriel.

mjsegaline

Frenkthevile wrote: »

I think they put so many spells in the game...because, honestly, they cannot do proper combat moves: look at the animations we have got for 2handed or dual-wield!
I think they are not the moves that a master assassin would do, they're just...dunno...swinging swords like a farmer does with a pitchfork.
But fireworks...evryone can create fireworks, yay!

Honestly, they should have just kept it simple. If they insisted on making classes at all, which I think was a dumb idea to begin with, they should have just made generic templates. Mage, thief, and warrior and let players expand upon their characters from there. You want to play a warrior who dabbles a bit in the magical arts? Great, pick your warrior class which has various passive to support your broadsword skills and tanking, and take some training at the mages guild to learn some magic. Become a battlemage if you wish. But there should be some investment in any skill lines that you choose.

Forcing everyone into these terrible unimaginative classes with boring skills, and forcing them to play a magic class is ridiculous. I don't care that my mage can use a bow, who the hell really wants to do that? JimBOB86 who doesn't give a rats ass about the lore or the character he is playing and just wants to be LEET? Just make it make sense. The battlefield is riddled with the same attacks on every single player you come across. The idea of using whatever weapon you want is just an illusion to try and take you away from the fact that you are forced into these ridiculous classes that make zero sense.

mjsegaline

Ommamar wrote: »

mjsegaline wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

So what will we do when spell crafting comes along and everyone has a store of spell tablets they are constantly using (this is my understanding of how it will work based off video presentations I have seen ESO make)

The way spellcrafting will work is like this. Spellcrafting can only be done when you are done with the mages guild and mastered the mages guild skill line. However, spellcrafters can make tablets for other people who have not done the mages guild quests. When these tablets are used, you learn that version of the spell permanently. There will also be the new schools added to your list. So if I learn someone's version of fireball, it will make the destruction tree available to me. Which I can level up for various benefits and what not, just like any other skill line.

However, what I am not sure about is whether there will be requirements for learning or using spells that you may have learned from someone else's tablet. For example, if I have absolutely no points in magicka and have not done a single mages guild quest, will I be able to learn someone's powerful conjure flame atronarch tablet, or will I be able to learn it but just not use it?

I just watched the video presentation from Quake Con. That is not what I took from it. Basically once you find the tablet you take a charcoal imprint of it then go to the guy who transcribes it on to your personal version of that tablet which makes the knowledge of how to craft that spell permanent. Then you can make versions of the tablets for other to use but not learn so they will cast the spell to get the effect that will last for an unspecified amount of time. It is tied it to the champion system in that you can raise passives of a specific school of magic making the spell you get from the spell crafter more effective. But you don't learn the school of magic by using the tablet, you have to use a champion point to open up that constellation. Anyway maybe another thread as this has to do with magic and it's prevalence in this version of Tamriel.

Interesting, I thought they said you would actually learn the ability rather then the tablet be a one time use consumable item. I thought the tablet was consumed but the spell on it was learned.

mjsegaline

Xjcon wrote: »

Have any of you read what ZOS said they are doing to Magic and stamina? I think you get your wish.....

I personally don't care, I like a game for what it is not for what I think the games before it were....

More details? I have only heard bits and pieces.

Ommamar

mjsegaline wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

mjsegaline wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

So what will we do when spell crafting comes along and everyone has a store of spell tablets they are constantly using (this is my understanding of how it will work based off video presentations I have seen ESO make)

The way spellcrafting will work is like this. Spellcrafting can only be done when you are done with the mages guild and mastered the mages guild skill line. However, spellcrafters can make tablets for other people who have not done the mages guild quests. When these tablets are used, you learn that version of the spell permanently. There will also be the new schools added to your list. So if I learn someone's version of fireball, it will make the destruction tree available to me. Which I can level up for various benefits and what not, just like any other skill line.

However, what I am not sure about is whether there will be requirements for learning or using spells that you may have learned from someone else's tablet. For example, if I have absolutely no points in magicka and have not done a single mages guild quest, will I be able to learn someone's powerful conjure flame atronarch tablet, or will I be able to learn it but just not use it?

I just watched the video presentation from Quake Con. That is not what I took from it. Basically once you find the tablet you take a charcoal imprint of it then go to the guy who transcribes it on to your personal version of that tablet which makes the knowledge of how to craft that spell permanent. Then you can make versions of the tablets for other to use but not learn so they will cast the spell to get the effect that will last for an unspecified amount of time. It is tied it to the champion system in that you can raise passives of a specific school of magic making the spell you get from the spell crafter more effective. But you don't learn the school of magic by using the tablet, you have to use a champion point to open up that constellation. Anyway maybe another thread as this has to do with magic and it's prevalence in this version of Tamriel.

Interesting, I thought they said you would actually learn the ability rather then the tablet be a one time use consumable item. I thought the tablet was consumed but the spell on it was learned.

I thought so too but the description made it sound somewhere between a Glyph and a potion. Watch it (long almost 2 hours but good info) and see if you come to the same conclusion.

Gidorick

I 100% agree with you.

My character's story involves him sort of having Mystiphobia. He doesn't like magic and pretty much abhors the idea of using it. He helps the mages guild because his mother was a mage and he made a vow to her to help the guild which she loved so dearly... even more than her own son. So he will fight alongside mages but as far as using magic himself? Not if he can help it.

So all of the abilities I use are more utility based abilities. My go-to are pretty much the Arrow abilities, Weapon Abilities, Silver Bolts, & the Ardent Flame skills (I justify these with a bit of back-story I wont get into) but I stay away from any Daedric powers, and all Mages Guild skills. I plan on getting Trap Beast at some point too.

Am I pretty much nerfing my own character? Yep... I totally am. I wish it weren't this way, but it is.

I'm not too concerned though. As it stands right now, I'm not with ESO for the long haul... I'm going to finish out the main story then move on to something else.

Gidorick

mjsegaline wrote: »

Frenkthevile wrote: »

I think they put so many spells in the game...because, honestly, they cannot do proper combat moves: look at the animations we have got for 2handed or dual-wield!
I think they are not the moves that a master assassin would do, they're just...dunno...swinging swords like a farmer does with a pitchfork.
But fireworks...evryone can create fireworks, yay!

Honestly, they should have just kept it simple. If they insisted on making classes at all, which I think was a dumb idea to begin with, they should have just made generic templates. Mage, thief, and warrior and let players expand upon their characters from there. You want to play a warrior who dabbles a bit in the magical arts? Great, pick your warrior class which has various passive to support your broadsword skills and tanking, and take some training at the mages guild to learn some magic. Become a battlemage if you wish. But there should be some investment in any skill lines that you choose.

Forcing everyone into these terrible unimaginative classes with boring skills, and forcing them to play a magic class is ridiculous. I don't care that my mage can use a bow, who the hell really wants to do that? JimBOB86 who doesn't give a rats ass about the lore or the character he is playing and just wants to be LEET? Just make it make sense. The battlefield is riddled with the same attacks on every single player you come across. The idea of using whatever weapon you want is just an illusion to try and take you away from the fact that you are forced into these ridiculous classes that make zero sense.

Yep. There are a lot of "should-haves" in ESO. but Hindsight is 20/20.

jeanette

I am currently leveling a nightblade that I want to be very assassin-like. I want to use bow and dual wield, but there's only one or two skills from those trees that are good enough compared to all the class skills! So, I am bound to use them and thus also magicka, while I wanted this one to be stamina based. I end up wearing light armor anyway, and ditch the dual wield. Why can't they make some of the class abilities using stamina, or atleast make the other skill lines comparable!

When it comes to spellcrafting, they could simply add something similar to stamina based builds, such as finding old combat techniques written on a wall somewhere that you can modify.

Gidorick

With the most recent respect I did my best to have one character magic-less and boy... it's kind of a pain in the rear to play now. ZOS really should consider adding some skill-lines that are based on physical abilities and not magical abilities. Perhaps they add some classes that don't have magical skill lines like a Knight, a Thief, and Ranger.

Tarum

Even if many skills now works on Stamina, you simply can't be a non mage.
What if I would play a ignorant warrior that doesn't shine in bright sparks during fight?
What if I would be a stealthy rogue that's just a thief-duelis, not a nightblade, dragonknight, templar or sorcerer?
I really would like to have a class that simply get rid of any magical effect on my character.
Once again, even if all my skills are stamina based, my character is not phisical, it's always glowing in magical colors, spitting flames and so on.

hedna123b14_ESO

Tarum wrote: »

Even if many skills now works on Stamina, you simply can't be a non mage.
What if I would play a ignorant warrior that doesn't shine in bright sparks during fight?
What if I would be a stealthy rogue that's just a thief-duelis, not a nightblade, dragonknight, templar or sorcerer?
I really would like to have a class that simply get rid of any magical effect on my character.
Once again, even if all my skills are stamina based, my character is not phisical, it's always glowing in magical colors, spitting flames and so on.

You sir could not play a non magicka related class, as you are clearly a necromancer:)