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Undaunted Pledge Difficulty
bellanca6561n
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I posted something on this but in some off in the woods topic that got maybe 5 views and no replies.
I simply want to ask if I got it wrong.
My understanding of the new scaling dungeon system and the Undaunted pledges was:
1. Silver - Veteran Rank, meant for a range of VR players who are moderately skilled and haven't necessarily worked together before.
2. Gold - Meant as a true challenge to accomplished Veteran Rank players, yet also featuring a range of ranks.
At first it seemed that way. I was actually surprised that I was able on day one to handle both types and found fun, intelligent people to play with.
However, the following three nights in a row felt like I'd hit a wood chipper, "Your friend over there in the....wood....chipper." Lowest rank player as lead, level range from 2 to 11 on Silver pledges. Fungal Grotto and Spindleclutch - both of them beginner group dungeons in two faction story lines, now set to Veteran Level.
These were not dumb or foolish people. There was no acrimony over this....we enjoyed each other's company...swapped around friend invites afterwards...paused to research our situation on the web and via video when we'd hit situations that stopped us.
Still, I think all us too a break from dungeons after these experiences. We say hi and all when we logon but don't bring up the D word.
Sorry to digress. Simply tell me:
1. Are these meant primarily to challenge top players only.
2. Second, is the scaling working as designed.
Thank you
I simply want to ask if I got it wrong.
My understanding of the new scaling dungeon system and the Undaunted pledges was:
1. Silver - Veteran Rank, meant for a range of VR players who are moderately skilled and haven't necessarily worked together before.
2. Gold - Meant as a true challenge to accomplished Veteran Rank players, yet also featuring a range of ranks.
At first it seemed that way. I was actually surprised that I was able on day one to handle both types and found fun, intelligent people to play with.
However, the following three nights in a row felt like I'd hit a wood chipper, "Your friend over there in the....wood....chipper." Lowest rank player as lead, level range from 2 to 11 on Silver pledges. Fungal Grotto and Spindleclutch - both of them beginner group dungeons in two faction story lines, now set to Veteran Level.
These were not dumb or foolish people. There was no acrimony over this....we enjoyed each other's company...swapped around friend invites afterwards...paused to research our situation on the web and via video when we'd hit situations that stopped us.
Still, I think all us too a break from dungeons after these experiences. We say hi and all when we logon but don't bring up the D word.
Sorry to digress. Simply tell me:
1. Are these meant primarily to challenge top players only.
2. Second, is the scaling working as designed.
Thank you
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manny254✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The silver and gold don't really mean anything consistently. If you are doing the vet pledge you will get the silver for completing it, and gold for doing the hard mode of the last boss. This can be as simple as killing zombies in wayrest during the boss fight, or something that requires a bit more experience like keeping 3 deadroth alive on BC without getting overrun.- Mojican
-Ádamant
-Viva la Venatus
-Rip RÁGE -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Some of the vet dungeons scaled up to 12 are quite difficult. Er.. not the dungeons, but some of the bosses. They aren't impossible, but I can definitely see some pugs really hitting a brick wall. It might be a good idea to go through and hand balance a few bosses like the guy in banished cells that summons lightning balls and keeps disappearing and groups of daedra spawn; I forget his name. In Fungal grotto, there are a couple bosses that could use some tuning too.
Overall, there are some really nice challenges, and finally some items to lust after. Cheers! -
Drasn✭✭✭✭I'll try to answer what I think you are asking.
No.bellanca6561n wrote: »1. Are these meant primarily to challenge top players only.
All of the non-vet dungeons are pretty much the same as they were before except they scale to your level now. A tank and healer can duo these easily enough and the DPS only makes the experience go faster.
Where a lot of people seem to be running into issues is with the failure to realize and react to mechanics that have always been associated with the bosses. Whereas before the mechanics could be ignored in most situations, that is no longer the case.
The Vet dungeons are still easily done as well. While not as forgiving as their non-vet counterparts most could be duoed with a tank and healer combo (certain hard-modes excluded.)
It really comes down to learning the mechanics of each fight and your tank and healer understanding the importance of agro and resource management.
For the most part, I believe it is.bellanca6561n wrote: »2. Second, is the scaling working as designed.
There are a few exceptions to this, that I have faith will be addressed. To explain, it seems that all encounters were scaled using the same equation. This becomes a problem on certain fights that involve more that a couple adds spawning during boss encounters. For instance, Spindleclutch's Pink Doughnut boss has phases of adds(the final phase having 3 adds with 100K+ health each) that can be rough for a group that is not prepared.
With a few tweaks to the encounters that received the scaling poorly I believe everything will be fine.
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bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭The silver and gold don't really mean anything consistently. If you are doing the vet pledge you will get the silver for completing it, and gold for doing the hard mode of the last boss. This can be as simple as killing zombies in wayrest during the boss fight, or something that requires a bit more experience like keeping 3 deadroth alive on BC without getting overrun.
Perhaps it's set up differently in different factions. Outside Mournhold there are two quest givers. One gives the basic version yielding a silver key, the other gives one with a gold key reward. Both give stretch goals.
Right from the start, when you turn in your little note the Redguard gal tells you, get one quest from me and a tougher one from the Bosmer guy.
And, yeah, this is how it seemed at first. Perhaps, however, the veteran version of dungeons like Fungal Grotto and Spindleclutch simply don't belong is the lower difficulty scheme of things, new feature and all that. -
Valymer✭✭✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »The Vet dungeons are still easily done as well. While not as forgiving as their non-vet counterparts most could be duoed with a tank and healer combo (certain hard-modes excluded.)
Informative post, but I am curious. Which vet dungeons can be duoed at VR12 scaling? I've seen one or two three-manned, but duo... -
manny254✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bellanca6561n wrote: »The silver and gold don't really mean anything consistently. If you are doing the vet pledge you will get the silver for completing it, and gold for doing the hard mode of the last boss. This can be as simple as killing zombies in wayrest during the boss fight, or something that requires a bit more experience like keeping 3 deadroth alive on BC without getting overrun.
Perhaps it's set up differently in different factions. Outside Mournhold there are two quest givers. One gives the basic version yielding a silver key, the other gives one with a gold key reward. Both give stretch goals.
Right from the start, when you turn in your little note the Redguard gal tells you, get one quest from me and a tougher one from the Bosmer guy.
And, yeah, this is how it seemed at first. Perhaps, however, the veteran version of dungeons like Fungal Grotto and Spindleclutch simply don't belong is the lower difficulty scheme of things, new feature and all that.
The quests them selves give a bronze or a silver key, and are upped 1 tier if you do the optional steps. I was only talking in regards to the vet pledge.- Mojican
-Ádamant
-Viva la Venatus
-Rip RÁGE -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A lot of the fights are strictly mechanics/movement, but there are a few hard DPS checks in the game. (This means if you don't present the DPS you need to wipe the boss before enrage then you are dead or in some SERIOUS trouble.)
Spindleclutch 2nd boss
Darkshade Caverns 2nd Boss
Crypt of Hearts Final Boss
There are some soft DPS checks as well
Spindleclutch last boss (hardmode)
Darkshade Caverns 3rd boss (AOE Check)
Spindleclutch 3rd boss (AOE Check)
As well as some HPS checks:
Fungal Grotto Final Boss (Hard mode)
Darkshade Cavern Final Boss (Hard Mode)
The mechanic fights that will be a party killer:
Fungal Grotto 2nd Boss
Spindle Clutch 4th Boss
Elden Hollow 1st boss
Elden Hollow Final Boss
Darkshade Caverns 3rd Boss
SpindleClutch 2nd Boss
Crypt of Hearts 2nd, 3rd, 5th, Final Bosses (this is a tough AOE dungeon)
So really it comes down to some simple, yet annoying frustrating things:
1. Can't DPS if you are dead. This is a often overlooked phenomenon that affects us all. We all want to pull our own weight and kill the boss right? That doesn't help anyone if you decide to pop a magic pot and DPS instead of a health pot and live. It takes time away from DPS to rez you or time away from HPS or tanking to rez you, you lose significantly more by dying that you possibly could have gained by that last ounce of DPS. Stay alive rule number 1.
2. Always keep moving. I know it is hard, but if you get to the level of moving constantly you will find that AOE is actually pretty easy to stay out of. Remember, physics tells us that an object in motion tends to stay in motion and Boileroom (Great movie) Tells us that "Motion creates emotion" so go go go.
3. They are meant to be hard. It's OK if you can't complete the challenge on the 1st or 10th try, they aren't meant to be easy. You have to stay calm and look objectively at what you are doing and how the party dynamics are, sometimes its just better to switch roles or responsibilities fight to fight. Maybe your DPS sorc has negate and he needs to taunt the adds from the boss so the tank can hold aggro on the big guy better without getting overwhelmed. Or maybe the tank needs to put on some attack skills and try to pick up 2-300 DPS to help with killing that DPS check. It all comes to adapt and survive.
4. Join a good dungeon guild that isn't going to get upset with you and will teach you the basics and then help you become a master. This is paramount, you aren't going to get to a point of mastering the dungeons running PUGS every day. You can get better sure, but you need to synergize with a group and get to a point where you know what they are going to do and how they will react to a situation as well as you know how you will. Then you will mesh together and really start running things.
5. HAVE FUN.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting. -
Funny thing happened the other day, group leader for our cells group forgot to switch vet off. When we realized it was vet by the pledge not progressing we reset back to normal and there was a huge ramp up in difficulty.
We cleared the normal mode but it made me laugh on how much nastier the easy mode is. -
neueregel✭✭✭I have yet to beat a vet pledge. I have tried with several different groups, some better than others... I am VR14 NB and we just never seem to have enough dps to take down that gargoyle. I think I have tried about 15 or more times and spent hours. Waste of time.Are you not entertained?
On my command, unleash hell!
What we do in life echoes in eternity -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, I'm not going to argue with Yoda.
Your points make sense and you really know this content. And I'm sure you're right. In fact I know it.
Yet, as I was quitting one of my guilds for insisting they run Crypt of Hearts with one VR10 and four VR14s on the Pledge, regardless of the fact I was IN THEIR GUILD and VR10 as well, I made it clear I did not think they were bad people. I just didn't belong there.
And, you're right, I need to find one that better suits because the pick up content is not accomplishing that for me.
Nonetheless I believe it could if it were actually separated by difficulty. -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Blood Spawn has 99315 and enrages at 120 seconds. That is a total DPS Check of 827.62 Damage Per Second on the boss.
Thats only 206.9 DPS per character. Now remove heals from that and you are left with 275.88 DPS on Tank and DD.
Remove tank and say they only get 100DPS so thats an extra 87.9 DPS needed from each DPS to carry the tanks 100DPS so each DD needs to provide 363.81 DPS on the boss.
If the tank complete blows it and does 0 DPS then the two DD are going to have to be UBER L33T and get 413.81 Single Target DPS against a heavily armored gargoyle elite boss.
When you look at the numbers then it can make sense, if you just look at the play style and character selection it may seem impossible, but you can build your party around those numbers and you will be fine.
That unfortunately is the 2nd easiest fight in the dungeon, the next one will really make you pull your hair out.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting. -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have yet to beat a vet pledge. I have tried with several different groups, some better than others... I am VR14 NB and we just never seem to have enough dps to take down that gargoyle. I think I have tried about 15 or more times and spent hours. Waste of time.
Same....so we went around him and hit another wood chipper down the tunnel while an Argonian NPC grabbed her head with both hands, screamed, and said, "Why is it never easy?"
I would have settled for doable
Sure you weren't in my group? I was on Andala, a Dunmer gal, VR10 DK set up for dual wield and sword and shield.
Edited by bellanca6561n on November 17, 2014 5:03PM -
Dunkmeister✭✭✭I have yet to beat a vet pledge. I have tried with several different groups, some better than others... I am VR14 NB and we just never seem to have enough dps to take down that gargoyle. I think I have tried about 15 or more times and spent hours. Waste of time.
Did you stack, dps and heal through the stomps or try and back out of the aoe's? The first is the best route for winning. Constant dps and if your healer can keep up with the damage, you should get it.
Dunkmeister - DK Firemage AD NA Server
PVE Achievement Collector -
Argusus✭Has anyone seen the bug where if you have the Darkshade Caverns quest along with the "undaunted daily" quest, you cannot complete both quest simultaneously? I reproduced this bug about twice on different toons and had to get everyone in my group to drop the dungeon quest, complete the pledge, then go back and complete the Darkshade Caverns quest separately. -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry for the multiple posts but I forgot to add to Yoda's very, very good and well written summary of challenging group play:
1. We followed most of those steps. These were intelligent, calm, and rather fun folks who paid attention, learned from mistakes, and even took a break to research parts we were stuck on.
2. That said, none of us would have been there - and few will return anytime soon - had we not been the under the impression that the lower level pledge was meant to be PUGed (yeah, as if that's a word).
If you've played contemporary level and raid post WoW style games you know there are places you simply don't go unless you're among the top players.
And if I can summarize this thread, this falls into that category much of the time. -
Drasn✭✭✭✭I have yet to beat a vet pledge. I have tried with several different groups, some better than others... I am VR14 NB and we just never seem to have enough dps to take down that gargoyle. I think I have tried about 15 or more times and spent hours. Waste of time.
No words....
Actually yes I have words... we use that gargoyle as a DPS measuring stick. Tank goes in and holds agro...nothing more. Healer heals...nothing more. Extra DPS grabs some popcorn and watches the show. The DPS testing their DPS either beats the gargoyles enrage timer or doesn't. Not really hard to beat it unless you are a magicka Sorc.
If you are in a group that is having trouble with that particular boss, take note of the three people you probably should avoid grouping with again.
-
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
I think your stats on blood spawn are old (pre-1.5) stats. In any case, they are certainly not the stats for the current v12 version. Also, don't forget that vet SC scaled to v1 is still harder than the pre-1.5 SC.The Blood Spawn has 99315 and enrages at 120 seconds. That is a total DPS Check of 827.62 Damage Per Second on the boss.
Thats only 206.9 DPS per character. Now remove heals from that and you are left with 275.88 DPS on Tank and DD.
Remove tank and say they only get 100DPS so thats an extra 87.9 DPS needed from each DPS to carry the tanks 100DPS so each DD needs to provide 363.81 DPS on the boss.
If the tank complete blows it and does 0 DPS then the two DD are going to have to be UBER L33T and get 413.81 Single Target DPS against a heavily armored gargoyle elite boss.
When you look at the numbers then it can make sense, if you just look at the play style and character selection it may seem impossible, but you can build your party around those numbers and you will be fine.
That unfortunately is the 2nd easiest fight in the dungeon, the next one will really make you pull your hair out.
You need a lot more than 413 dps for sure. I had a run with my sorc in which I was doing 850 dps and the pre-enrage phase occurred before the gargoyle was dead.Edited by Aeratus on November 17, 2014 5:07PM -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭Ratio of what? HP has increased since 1.5, but the timer on boss mechanics has generally decreased (that is, you have to do more in a shorter amount of time).
Most of the bosses have had their HP doubled from previous versions to the current v12 version. Even the COH bosses have had their HP doubled from old v12 to patch-1.5 v12 (even though the "v12" hasn't changed).
So I'm guessing that the gargoyle has 200k HP at v12 scale, which you need to take down in a period of time that could have been reduced. Maybe someone can confirm how many HP the v12 gargoyle really has.Edited by Aeratus on November 17, 2014 5:16PM -
neueregel✭✭✭pcdunkleyub17_ESO wrote: »I have yet to beat a vet pledge. I have tried with several different groups, some better than others... I am VR14 NB and we just never seem to have enough dps to take down that gargoyle. I think I have tried about 15 or more times and spent hours. Waste of time.
Did you stack, dps and heal through the stomps or try and back out of the aoe's? The first is the best route for winning. Constant dps and if your healer can keep up with the damage, you should get it.
Yes, we tried over and over this way. Never got close. I tried with about 4 different groups.Are you not entertained?
On my command, unleash hell!
What we do in life echoes in eternity -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here it is in a nutshell. Right now there is hard and harder.
The VR pledges are supposed to be hard.
The normal pledges are supposed to be easy. They are not.
A group of casual players looking for a fun dungeon experience at vr14 is sht out of luck.
This is just another bad business decision in a long list of bad business decisions.
The entire concept of a "normal" pledge is to offer a fun, rewarding experience for less seasoned dungeon crawlers. It is supposed to generate interest in the dungeons.
The only thing these crazily scaled up versions are doing is scaring way even more casual players.
Here is what I keep seeing as response to this concern: "These dungeons are not that hard. As long as you don't make any mistakes, they are easy. You don't have to be an elite player to beat them".
I hate to burst some bubbles here, but mistake-free gameplay is the very definition of elite.
If you are using team speak, playing with an established dungeon crawling guild, avoiding every single red spot, using top notch dps builds, top notch tank specs, and top notch healing builds AKA - mistake free game play, then you are playing at an elite level.
The VR pledges should be designed to offer a challenge for this ^ ^
The VR pledges gold key option should offer even more of a challenge for this ^
The rewards should appropriately compensate elite players.
The normal versions should be easy for groups that are not using team speak, not using the best builds, and are not playing mistake free. Hense the term casual. The rewards should also be appropriate for less of a challenge.
The normal versions should be a learning tool and a stepping stool for casual players who may or may not want to hone their skills/builds/tactics in order to take it to the next level.
That is the concept. It is not the reality.
It is my opinion that the normal versions scaled up to vr levels should be on par with the group dungeons In craglorn. These are midly challenging and definately doable for casual groups. They are easy for elite players and they should be.
So scale them down some please. Then when people get on the forums and complain about how elite they are and how easy the normal versions are, all you should have to say is "Cool story bro. Go play the VR version then".
Edited by Alphashado on November 17, 2014 5:26PM -
neueregel✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »I have yet to beat a vet pledge. I have tried with several different groups, some better than others... I am VR14 NB and we just never seem to have enough dps to take down that gargoyle. I think I have tried about 15 or more times and spent hours. Waste of time.
No words....
Actually yes I have words... we use that gargoyle as a DPS measuring stick. Tank goes in and holds agro...nothing more. Healer heals...nothing more. Extra DPS grabs some popcorn and watches the show. The DPS testing their DPS either beats the gargoyles enrage timer or doesn't. Not really hard to beat it unless you are a magicka Sorc.
If you are in a group that is having trouble with that particular boss, take note of the three people you probably should avoid grouping with again.
Not sure I agree... none of us were experts but willing to learn... To just dismiss people/players like that is not my personality or way I want to treat others... It isn't that important to me to beat this pledge and have an elite/better than everyone else attitude like this.Are you not entertained?
On my command, unleash hell!
What we do in life echoes in eternity -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
How much dps were the dps-members doing? Your answer can probably be explained in just two numbers: the respective dps of the two damage dealers in the group.pcdunkleyub17_ESO wrote: »I have yet to beat a vet pledge. I have tried with several different groups, some better than others... I am VR14 NB and we just never seem to have enough dps to take down that gargoyle. I think I have tried about 15 or more times and spent hours. Waste of time.
Did you stack, dps and heal through the stomps or try and back out of the aoe's? The first is the best route for winning. Constant dps and if your healer can keep up with the damage, you should get it.
Yes, we tried over and over this way. Never got close. I tried with about 4 different groups.
You cannot heal your way out of the rage phase, because when it enrages, you are dead no matter what. The only way to win is to dps him down.
A decent v14 dps should be able to do 800+ dps on non-daedric targets. Two of such and you should have no problems with the gargoyle even scaled to v12. -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »I have yet to beat a vet pledge. I have tried with several different groups, some better than others... I am VR14 NB and we just never seem to have enough dps to take down that gargoyle. I think I have tried about 15 or more times and spent hours. Waste of time.
No words....
Actually yes I have words... we use that gargoyle as a DPS measuring stick. Tank goes in and holds agro...nothing more. Healer heals...nothing more. Extra DPS grabs some popcorn and watches the show. The DPS testing their DPS either beats the gargoyles enrage timer or doesn't. Not really hard to beat it unless you are a magicka Sorc.
If you are in a group that is having trouble with that particular boss, take note of the three people you probably should avoid grouping with again.
This is precisely what multiplayer gaming is not about in my view....the belief that people who are not WONDERFUL at games are people you avoid.
I can assure you that her group and the groups I was with did exactly that: held down the monster with the tank, healer healed the tank, the rest engaged in the DPS race.
It wasn't scaling properly. That's the metapoint here.
And I would happily and eagerly group with those very people again. I'd rather fail a thousand times with people like them that succeed, even once, with someone who truly believe the only people worth their time are accomplished game players.
Somehow, though, I think I'm reading you far harsher than intended.
-
VagabondAngel✭✭✭✭
Well, I'm glad they didn't design the scaling with players like you and your friends in mind.thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »No words....
Actually yes I have words... we use that gargoyle as a DPS measuring stick. Tank goes in and holds agro...nothing more. Healer heals...nothing more. Extra DPS grabs some popcorn and watches the show. The DPS testing their DPS either beats the gargoyles enrage timer or doesn't. Not really hard to beat it unless you are a magicka Sorc.
If you are in a group that is having trouble with that particular boss, take note of the three people you probably should avoid grouping with again.
No, wait....
My particular favourite mechanics so far are the ones that result in someone with your attitude telling me "Healer Fail!" after everyone just stood there like a dummy and died while I couldn't keep up the HPS required.
No I don't have a 5 piece Warlock set because trials are even less fun.
Ok I admit, I'm a PvPer primarily. So I can keep people alive while enemies pour oil on them and shoot them with Lethal Arrow but I can't do the same in a VR12 scaled dungeon? What's wrong with this picture?
Me. It must be me.
Me and everyone else that isn't a PvE pro with a 100k hp ego.
Edited by VagabondAngel on November 17, 2014 5:26PM~ Níamh ~
~ Ebonheart Pact ~
~ SatGNU - PC - EU ~ -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The ratio of damage needed from the DPS vs the Tank and heals will always stay the same no matter the number.
If the boss has 100 hp or 1,000,000 the DPS will still have to pick up 40-45% needed each.
If you have one DPS that can burn it down 100% then great, if you have one DPS that can do 60% and one DPS that can do 20-25% awesome. You just have to build your groups around that premise, that you know there needs to be a certain amount of damage done and that most likely is going to be carried by one person in a PUG.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting. -
Koga✭✭Our guild GreyWolves is a PVE Dungeon guild. Our Alpha pack runs the pledges every night. We all have multiple vet 14 Characters and all 4 of us can fulfill any role, Tank, Heal, DPS. We each get 4 Gold keys per night. We play together ALL the time and we know each other play styles well.
That said:
We often take other guild members through to get their keys or achievements. 3 alpha pack members and 1 other. This is where you see the Difference 1 player not knowing the mechanics or not moving out of !@#$% makes.
Most members we have no problems with but if one person is not carrying their weight you will not get past certain bosses.
The other day the pink ring boss (the same one we have cleared with no problems before and after) was wiping us on the very first wave of spiders even.
after some adjusting of our normal tactics to compensate we made it to the actual Boss but we still had 3 other the previous 1 pips either hitting the tank or running around wacking on ppl. After 2+ hours failing on this boss we had to call it and left the dungeon with the unfamiliar stench of defeat. The experience almost broke our main healers will.
After a long Brk we ran it again with another Non Alpha pack member and got a gold key in 20 min no problem whatsoever. We went on and got our 3 other gold keys with our regular 4 man.
The moral of the story is...
Don't Pug, Join a guild, make friends and play with people you trust often.
PS. And Don't stand in stupid !
Koga
Greywolves
V14 Sorc dps • V14 Templar Heals• V14 DK Tank• V14 NB dps -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A lot of the fights are strictly mechanics/movement, but there are a few hard DPS checks in the game. (This means if you don't present the DPS you need to wipe the boss before enrage then you are dead or in some SERIOUS trouble.)
Spindleclutch 2nd boss
Darkshade Caverns 2nd Boss
Crypt of Hearts Final Boss
There are some soft DPS checks as well
Spindleclutch last boss (hardmode)
Darkshade Caverns 3rd boss (AOE Check)
Spindleclutch 3rd boss (AOE Check)
As well as some HPS checks:
Fungal Grotto Final Boss (Hard mode)
Darkshade Cavern Final Boss (Hard Mode)
The mechanic fights that will be a party killer:
Fungal Grotto 2nd Boss
Spindle Clutch 4th Boss
Elden Hollow 1st boss
Elden Hollow Final Boss
Darkshade Caverns 3rd Boss
SpindleClutch 2nd Boss
Crypt of Hearts 2nd, 3rd, 5th, Final Bosses (this is a tough AOE dungeon)
So really it comes down to some simple, yet annoying frustrating things:
1. Can't DPS if you are dead. This is a often overlooked phenomenon that affects us all. We all want to pull our own weight and kill the boss right? That doesn't help anyone if you decide to pop a magic pot and DPS instead of a health pot and live. It takes time away from DPS to rez you or time away from HPS or tanking to rez you, you lose significantly more by dying that you possibly could have gained by that last ounce of DPS. Stay alive rule number 1.
2. Always keep moving. I know it is hard, but if you get to the level of moving constantly you will find that AOE is actually pretty easy to stay out of. Remember, physics tells us that an object in motion tends to stay in motion and Boileroom (Great movie) Tells us that "Motion creates emotion" so go go go.
3. They are meant to be hard. It's OK if you can't complete the challenge on the 1st or 10th try, they aren't meant to be easy. You have to stay calm and look objectively at what you are doing and how the party dynamics are, sometimes its just better to switch roles or responsibilities fight to fight. Maybe your DPS sorc has negate and he needs to taunt the adds from the boss so the tank can hold aggro on the big guy better without getting overwhelmed. Or maybe the tank needs to put on some attack skills and try to pick up 2-300 DPS to help with killing that DPS check. It all comes to adapt and survive.
4. Join a good dungeon guild that isn't going to get upset with you and will teach you the basics and then help you become a master. This is paramount, you aren't going to get to a point of mastering the dungeons running PUGS every day. You can get better sure, but you need to synergize with a group and get to a point where you know what they are going to do and how they will react to a situation as well as you know how you will. Then you will mesh together and really start running things.
5. HAVE FUN.
Omygosh, a hardcore player that doesn't go all "u all suck and need 2 l2p" ._. Can I run with you?xD Not like I can't find people to complete them with, but still, an attitude like that is so damn rare. We need more people who're willing to be patient and help newer/more casual players learn the game instead of scaring them away with the "l33t" attitude.
Seriously though, that's a damn good post, possibly the best I've seen on the subject. Give the man a cookie!
