There's almost no reason to group a sorc in pve

Verdwhisper

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Not to mention... you said we have stamina problems..I never run out of stamina ever....

Great, u r a redguard and also a ww! U can pull 1.5k dps on the mage? Could u share ur build, plz? Including gear and dps rotation.

Verdwhisper

GamerzElite wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

midnight_tea wrote: »

Ultimate - Overload: prevents you from using weapon abilities, so no crushing shock, healing springs or combat prayer while it's on. Useless.

Useless? It's not useless, what it is, is OP. It's basically the best Sorc DPS ult and you can use class abilities while it's toggled... Just throw in crit surge and watch the DPS meter, you'll be amazed.

Also, I don't think you've ever used mage's wrath/crystal frags/velocious curse combo...

Please, do you even trial? :disagree:
Your build does not bring optimal DPS for a sorcerer. How high can you go? What's your current AA/HR best time?

Voodoo wrote: »

patch is not even 24hr old and already theres a huge in justice done to at least one class.

Lets see this thread Sorcerer injustice.

Now I just have to find DK,NB,Temp. threads of injustice.

This has very little to do with update 5. It's not even up on the EU server yet.

Aeratus wrote: »

Among the 3 best ranked teams in [EU] this week:
- 39% DK
- 30% NB
- 17% Templar
- 14% Sorc

Just an EU style. I'm pretty sure in NA, Sorc is more popular than NB.

Then please show us the NA rankings, I'm dying to see how many DKs are being used on the other side of the Ocean.

edit: all I could find was this old screen:

- 3 DKs (only!)
- 6 NBs
- 1 Templar
- 2 Sorc

Why don't you try a Trail without Sorc if its all about DPS.

Sure u can run a aa or helra perfectly without a sorc. Also, in SO, negate cannot do ***.

Aeratus

Verdwhisper wrote: »

Sure u can run a aa or helra perfectly without a sorc. Also, in SO, negate cannot do ***.

Yeah, you can definitely run any trial without a sorc. A sorc is just there to make it easier. The "need" for a sorc has been perpetuated by mentality only.

The effect of suppression field is rather small on the last AA and HR boss. In fact, the mitigation isn't much better than that which is obtained by a NB's shade (in addition to the veil mitigation). And people don't even bother using shades anymore, because not enough non-NBs know about it to actually ask NBs to use it.

On the second AA boss, enough veils and banners spamming at the same time will burn down any chainspinners before they even do any damage. This is especially true for high dps groups that burn down the boss in a short amount of time.

SRIBES

I'm going to address your concern from a PvP perspective because I don't play PvE.
Sorcerers are a must have in groups. To make an impact in large groups you will want heavy hitting AoE, be able to sustain, support your group with purge or heals from time to time, and have a defensive and offensive ultimate. If built right sorcs have all of this. While a lot of people have impen not everyone does so if they have at least 30%+ crit they can get heals off crit surge and hit hard with say impulse or steel tornado (sustain and AoE). They can purge and use rapid regeneration like all classes to help support the group, but the reason they're a must is absorption field. You can push any group back and wipe them with just this ability and if you can gain ultimate fast enough you will be able to wipe a group just because of negate. Also streak is an AoE CC which is a big help. Hope I helped

xaraan

Using the top trials time leader board as an example of something being useful in PvE is not the best method IMO. 1. Trials isn't very representative of running dungeons or even arena. I know a lot of people that run trials with good times all the time but suck horribly on running dungeons (like worse than pugs). 2. Too many trials runners are all about cookie cutter - most aren't the trail blazers, they are the followers that see how the big guys do it and copy them. That means they just repeat whatever they hear: used to be "no Nightblades b/c they suck" until someone they love told them, no, that's not true, they just have to be casters. Now the story is exactly what you posted: take 2-3 templars, a couple sorcs for negate, a few nightblades to throw down veil for damage mitigation (and they do good dps if built right) for stack and burn and the rest is dps, usually DK b/c it's easiest to dps well with.

Many of those skills listed as useless are only useless in trials and very useful in the rest of the game. Not saying they couldn't tweak a few things, but just the way you broke that list down makes it useless b/c essentially it's not true. I guess if you are only talking about trials, sure the list is ok, but PvE as a whole, no, sorcs are pretty darn good.

Vahrokh

AsweetRoll wrote: »

I'm going to address your concern from a PvP perspective because I don't play PvE.
Sorcerers are a must have in groups.

I have always (sometimes only) played PvP in MMOs but I just can't stomach ESO PvP. Your concern does not affect nor relieves a lot of players, often who does PvE does not do any PvP and vice versa (see how you say you don't PvE to find a first example).

Vahrokh

xaraan wrote: »

Many of those skills listed as useless are only useless in trials and very useful in the rest of the game. Not saying they couldn't tweak a few things, but just the way you broke that list down makes it useless b/c essentially it's not true. I guess if you are only talking about trials, sure the list is ok, but PvE as a whole, no, sorcs are pretty darn good.

Raids (trials) are always a leading indicator in the future MMO direction. Classes that can't stand the test of performance get slowly but surely affected by "stigma" and fall off the charts.

After all, there's all of *1* non trial instance where there's a minimum of challenge, who cares if a class may be useful in super easy mode PvE.

midnight_tea

Sure u can run a aa or helra perfectly without a sorc. Also, in SO, negate cannot do ***.

You can still negate trash and at least pre-patch trash there was pretty bad. And yeah, negate works on them beautifully. So does PO.

Still, even though negates don't work in boss fights, there are still many sorcs in Sanctum runs, and they're definitely not being carried.

TehMagnus

Verdwhisper wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Not to mention... you said we have stamina problems..I never run out of stamina ever....

Great, u r a redguard and also a ww! U can pull 1.5k dps on the mage? Could u share ur build, plz? Including gear and dps rotation.

It doesn't matter if he can pull 10K dps. He's useless in any fight where you have to run or can't stack on boss with his ugly stamina build which makes the character useless in many instances.

chaseman245

From playing multiple hours on my v14 sorc (traditional caster sorc) I can tell you sorcs are absolute garbage compared to others classes atm. More than half of their skills are some sort of utility spell, the pets are worthless, the damage from the class skills that ARE offensive are horrendous and the ultimates are less than useless.

1. Sorcerers have no offensive AoE ultimate like all of the other classes. (I don't count overload, because the damage is so low, I have never seen a sorc use it)
2. Sorcerers have no "spammable" class ability like NBs or DKs have. Which in turn leaves sorcs to gear towards weapon damage for their dps.
3. I have tried multiple armor sets and skill setups and have not found anything close to what NBs or DKs can pull.
4. Sorcerers have no DoTs and the class AoEs are a joke.

My suggestion to ZoS: Turn overload into a chain lightning attack, increase damage on lightning flood and get rid of the synergy, add a DoT spell or add a DoT to Velo curse. Make the pets do more damage or be more useful for endgame PvE.

I think ZoS intended the sorcerer to be lower dps, but high sustainability and utility.

olsborg

I personally feel (pvp only) that my dps has lowered too much due to sharpened trait and light armor passives being fixed and adjusted. My crystal fragment has basicly lost over 150pts in dmg. Pre patch I could competitively fight dks 1v1, but now I can just about stand and survive(and inevitably flee), but my dps isnt good enough to end their life. Now I realize the patch hasnt been live for very long, but these are my first impressions after playing several hours.

I wish the spelldmg softcaps where raised just a little, or that we got some alternative method of getting more spell penetration or spell power.

(sry about my english, its my third language)

Vahrokh

xaraan wrote: »

I think ZoS intended the sorcerer to be lower dps, but high sustainability and utility.

... which is a very poor decision, because every single trial encounter is about high DPS, short duration and pure DPS spam with no utility needed at all.

chaseman245

Vahrokh wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I think ZoS intended the sorcerer to be lower dps, but high sustainability and utility.

... which is a very poor decision, because every single trial encounter is about high DPS, short duration and pure DPS spam with no utility needed at all.

Well also, its a poor decision that trial encounters are set up in this manner. I have had a blast banging my head on a wall and finally getting mantikora on farm, and now they hit it with a giant nerfbat. It was fine the way it was, challenging, if you make fights stupid easy, people will get bored and leave.

Kungfu

Just a note in response on the whole "sorcs in PvP" thing...

I run solo 99.99% of the time on AD (NA). If you're not AD, you ought to go knock on Supermad's helmet a time or two. He might change your mind as to what a sorc can accomplish.

Derra

I have yet to see a sorc perform really well in solo pvp (not duels where you have all the time in the world to dismantle your opponent bc there are no adds).
The class simply lacks the dmg to end ppls lives. Only chasers that overextend themselves or ppl with horrible resource management die to sorcs.
So the Class gets narrowed down to farming scrubs (which other classes are unarguably better at) and boring eternal kiting games where the only thing you can do to get a kill is pray for your opponent to greatly misjudge the situation he´s in.
Thats why peoply get so butthurt when they die to a sorc. They have to mess up to die. Nobody likes to say to themselve "wow, that was really stupid what i did there".

But I´m pretty sure someone will just explain to me how i just don´t play my class good enough :P bc they get farmed by sorcs regularly or see sorcs kill morons.

On the positive: My group is never going to dump me bc of negate. Yay.