Block casting

Luvsfuzzybunnies

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

People who complain about block casting don't understand the block mechanics of this game.

They also don't understand that if they remove Block Casting, they're going to basically force everyone into Magicka Based Shield stacking builds as the only Stamina Build remotely useful after that will be Bow..and that's getting nerfed next patch.

You'll also make 1vsX battles pointless unless you're running the Magicka Based Shield stacking builds..as in any fight greater then 1v1 you pretty much have to hold down block if you're stamina based or you're going to die...

But they don't care...Some DK killed them once and had a shield out..so we should nerf it because they're bad.

We get it you walk around holding RMB too. It will stop those who use the sheild stacking method from being so effective actually. Since they hold block while casting sheilds and would take more before the sheild went up and make them play more defensivelyou rather than pop sheild go back on offense. They need to let magicka sheilds be affected by critical strikes. Then all would be well in the world.

guybrushtb16_ESO

GnatB wrote: »

Another completely outlandish idea.

Only let shield users block as currently implemented.

Other weapon styles have to parry which would be more of an active ability.

An attempted parry would take X stamina. If an attack is actually parried it would take more. (and you need enough to cover both to event attempt a parry)

Parry would be, say, a 1 second animation with the middle 1/3rd of it the sweetspot where it actually works to parry the attack. Only melee attacks can be parried.

So you'd actually have to time the parry right for it to be effective.

Ironically, that would be a tremendous boost to 1+shield permablocking magicka builds, which we probably all agree that we don't need even more of.

Also, active blocking like that is extremely vulnerable to lag issues, and the set of animations we have currently aren't made to work with this at all. For the most part, there are no tells or signals when you should block an instant ability, and on the other hand it's extremely easy to parry something with a windup animation like uppercut, as rare as that may be.

GreyBrow

Posted this in another thread, maybe it'll find a better home here:

Nearly every ability is accompanied by an animation where, if your character is currently blocking, he/she lowers their shield, and either does some hand motion and your shield entirely DISAPPEARS (crystal fragments) or performs some other action that would preclude you from having a shield protecting your head (engulfing flames). In the case of blocking with a staff, the block animation shows the character holding the staff parallel with the ground, but the impulse animation shows that same staff raising into the air, and flames shooting out around your body.

how can you explain the fact that you are BLOCKING a sword or projectile attack by holding a staff in front of your face, and SIMULTANEOUSLY raising that same staff into the air, pointing it at something, or otherwise using it any other manner, and still able to perform both actions?

If holding a staff protectively in front of you is a prerequisite to blocking, and raising that same staff into the air a prerequisite for casting impulse, how can a character possibly accomplish both actions simultaneously?

It makes absolutely no sense

Magic explains magic, it doesn't explain how, when holding a staff or shield is a prerequisite to blocking, you can also use that staff to perform a different action, yet remain blocking.

It is lore breaking simply because it makes absolutely no metaphysical sense. If the item is a discrete item (it is) and exists (it does), it is either here OR there; it can not be here AND there. If a discrete item exists at point A at time X, it cannot possibly exist at point B at time X.

This is a fundamental law of the universe... Of any universe. If you can't wrap your head around this simple concept go back to college instead of playing videogames.




@ZOS_PaulSage‌ or anyone else care to comment and explain this seemingly physically impossible phenomenon to me? Are characters in the ESO world not bound by the laws of physics, and if not, why can't my character fly around like an eagle? Flying around like a bird seems to be a small feat compared to manipulating the space-time continuum so that a staff to be in two places at the same time performing two completely different actions.[/quote]

GreyBrow

Tl;dr

Your game is based around Newtonian physics. Staffs are not subatomic particles, and they obey Newtonian laws of physics. They cannot in two different places performing two different actions simultaneously.

Psychobunni

Beesting wrote: »

They might as well just delete all chars and all progress if they nerf block casting, is my point of view.
Why not make a different set of rules for pvp, disable and nerf things there, but leave it in place in pve, the game mechanics and fights were all designed around the skills, you cannot just nerf everything and expect people to enjoy dying over and over, just because some pvp-ers said so

That was my frustration, its not just this one particular issue. Every time they nerf whatever it is that people are crying about dying to in PVP...within a week they find something new to cry about. Change how particular skills work in PVP combat but stop screwing with them on the other side where I would hazard to guess the bulk of players are.

Sleep

Players should be vulnerable while casting.

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

We get it you walk around holding RMB too .

Let's embrace the power of RMB.

ExiledKhallisi

Evandus wrote: »

I believe the term Paul Sage used was "game responsiveness" in terms of leaving block casting in. This seems to line up well with some of the more intelligent responses found in previous nerf request threads.

I could see them locking out offensive abilities while blocking but allowing defensive ones. For example locking out impulse, crushing shock, etc... but allowing breath of life, rapid regen, combat prayer, etc...

Not that this is a viable solution for those who complain often. But it does seem likely. Either way, what I watched a bit ago suggests that they won't be coming around to this for quite a while. Likely months down the road.

Says avid block caster.

Face it...casting and negating 50%+ DMG at all times is pure cheese..

Forestd16b14_ESO

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Says avid block caster.

Face it...casting and negating 50%+ DMG at all times is pure cheese..

And it's cheese not even Sheogorath will eat. If it's cheese not even uncle Sheogorath will eat you know it's .... Gouda go....

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......

But all in all block casting does gotta go the pun was to lighten things up.

Cazic

If they change being able to cast while blocking, that would be a huge nerf for any tank build playing solo, or in PvP. Currently, you cannot use primary attack while blocking, and having to release your block every time you want to use an ability would be a huge handicap unless you've got someone healing you.

I understand the reason for wanting this changed, and same with the 360 degree blocking, but until they figure out a way to make such changes without totally crippling people who rely on using block, I don't think it'll happen. Sorry I don't have any ideas to bring to the table in that regard, but I think the system is fine as it is.

ExiledKhallisi

Cazic wrote: »

If they change being able to cast while blocking, that would be a huge nerf for any tank build playing solo, or in PvP. Currently, you cannot use primary attack while blocking, and having to release your block every time you want to use an ability would be a huge handicap unless you've got someone healing you.

I understand the reason for wanting this changed, and same with the 360 degree blocking, but until they figure out a way to make such changes without totally crippling people who rely on using block, I don't think it'll happen. Sorry I don't have any ideas to bring to the table in that regard, but I think the system is fine as it is.

Nerf? More like it would add something to the mindlessness of tanking. Currently its child's play. No thinking involved hold block, spam taunts and defenses.

Cazic

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nerf? More like it would add something to the mindlessness of tanking. Currently its child's play. No thinking involved hold block, spam taunts and defenses.

Fair enough. But I mean, imagine (as a tank) having to lower your guard every time you want to fire something off. If it's a tough battle, you'd go down pretty quick. Or, you don't lower your guard at all and just don't do any damage. In a group situation with someone to fill each role this wouldn't be too bad. But, for soloing or hectic PvP it would suck.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Cazic wrote: »

But, for soloing or hectic PvP it would suck.

Soloing stuff you do not need block casting at all and the hectic PvP is why block casting needs to go. When it take 10+ players to take A single player down cause there just holding up block and spamming self heals at the same time that right there is red flag.

Also just out of curiosity and this goes to the masses ... you do know we have regular attacking right ? Cause if any one is so dependent on block casting for soloing stuff you're doing something wrong. Plus ZoS gave us stamina and magicka regain when we complete heavy attacks. Like mind me but it just confuses me to madness why players aren't doing more regular/heavy attacks now (besides players with healing staffs cause of its auto tracker aim stuff) in PvE or PvP.

Cazic

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

But, for soloing or hectic PvP it would suck.

Soloing stuff you do not need block casting at all and the hectic PvP is why block casting needs to go. When it take 10+ players to take A single player down cause there just holding up block and spamming self heals at the same time that right there is red flag.

Also just out of curiosity and this goes to the masses ... you do know we have regular attacking right ? Cause if any one is so dependent on block casting for soloing stuff you're doing something wrong. Plus ZoS gave us stamina and magicka regain when we complete heavy attacks. Like mind me but it just confuses me to madness why players aren't doing more regular/heavy attacks now (besides players with healing staffs cause of its auto tracker aim stuff) in PvE or PvP.

As far as I know you can't use primary attack while blocking, unless this was changed in 1.5. LMB + RMB is interrupt by default, and if that's bound to something else LMB (primary attack) does nothing while blocking. If this weren't the case then I wouldn't see block casting as being essential. Unless I am missing something here and you can indeed primary attack while blocking.

Cazic

Also, if someone is choosing so sit there blocking and casting self heals, what's the problem with that? They aren't doing any damage, and the moment they stop self healing they will start taking damage whether blocking or not.

G0ku

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nerf? More like it would add something to the mindlessness of tanking. Currently its child's play. No thinking involved hold block, spam taunts and defenses.

So I guess you finished Arena Hard Mode and Sanctum tanking and were bored to the death because of the child´s play ? Please deliver proof...

I do both pvp and pve, and I assure you as soon as they disable block casting without doing a fundamental change to most of the pve encounters the difficult ones while be near to impossible to accomplish. But the likes of you don´t care about it, they are just butthurt that a DK can cast GDB while blocking in pvp. I guess this is something what just doesn´t bother you therefore you give a *** about it.

So don´t pretend you even can judge how it would affect some parts of pve. 6 months of being used to block casting and you come here and tell us they should just change that single one aspect without touching the things related to it?

If this should ever happen ZOS has lost at least one sub.

Cazic

G0ku wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nerf? More like it would add something to the mindlessness of tanking. Currently its child's play. No thinking involved hold block, spam taunts and defenses.

So I guess you finished Arena Hard Mode and Sanctum tanking and were bored to the death because of the child´s play ? Please deliver proof...

I do both pvp and pve, and I assure you as soon as they disable block casting without doing a fundamental change to most of the pve encounters the difficult ones while be near to impossible to accomplish. But the likes of you don´t care about it, they are just butthurt that a DK can cast GDB while blocking in pvp. I guess this is something what just doesn´t bother you therefore you give a *** about it.

So don´t pretend you even can judge how it would affect some parts of pve. 6 months of being used to block casting and you come here and tell us they should just change that single one aspect without touching the things related to it?

If this should ever happen ZOS has lost at least one sub.

Yeah, exactly that. Seems like the group that is for removing block casting is just angry because they were beat by someone who was block casting. Losing or getting frustrated in PvP doesn't mean something should just be straight up changed or removed. You have to consider other aspects of the game.

zbtiqua

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

On ESO live for Oct 24. they talk about block casting and what there plans for it is. They said they left it in on purpose to increase awareness or effectiveness something like that.

I can see how this was one of those seemed like a good idea at the time thing but as you may have seen on the forums how block casting has cause alot of problems. Paul Sage said they are looking into this and said there working with block casting. Thing is Delvs if you read this there is no working with block casting it's either grey out skills when blocking or take full damage when casting skills even if your holding the block button there is no working with it not taking only half damage when holding block and casting or 75% or 90% damage It's either full damage or can't cast at all.

That is all I have to say please feel free to share your thoughts on this issue if you agree or dis-agree. Please keep it clean. Thank you for your time fellow mortals.

I agree. It is a first, at least in my gaming experience. I think it is pretty clear that this aspect of the game isn't optimal, and it is frustrating that the devs take such an exasperatingly long time to actually do anything about it.

Gyudan

Maybe a timer?
If the block key has been pressed in the past 1.5 seconds, reduce all dmg dealt by 50% ?

Forestd16b14_ESO

G0ku wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nerf? More like it would add something to the mindlessness of tanking. Currently its child's play. No thinking involved hold block, spam taunts and defenses.

So I guess you finished Arena Hard Mode and Sanctum tanking and were bored to the death because of the child´s play ? Please deliver proof...

I do both pvp and pve, and I assure you as soon as they disable block casting without doing a fundamental change to most of the pve encounters the difficult ones while be near to impossible to accomplish. But the likes of you don´t care about it, they are just butthurt that a DK can cast GDB while blocking in pvp. I guess this is something what just doesn´t bother you therefore you give a *** about it.

So don´t pretend you even can judge how it would affect some parts of pve. 6 months of being used to block casting and you come here and tell us they should just change that single one aspect without touching the things related to it?

If this should ever happen ZOS has lost at least one sub.

I mostly do PvE cause PvP is broken and I say it's even ruining PvE cause most of the DPS even healers i find for delves block cast. Block casting pretty much allows a single player to fur-fill the role of all 3 style and I have seen it a Templar I had in a group was the so called healer. Didn't like that i was 2H so he of is own accord started to tank and heal then said the DPS weren't as fast as they should be so they started to DPS to. Me and my other 2 group mates pretty much piggy-backed on this guy cause all they did was spam fire-impule-bats while blocking and self healing with the templar skills. That is not fun watching some over power guy abusing bugs. Sure we were able to clear it and get the skyshard but it was horrable to me cause i didn't earn it.

Also tanking isn't this child's game it does need work and time to know how and what your gonna do but because of block casting every thinks all they need is a shield and AoE spamming and taunts that's it. That's just being a gank and boring what's the point of respawns if you don't die? what's the point of regrouping and thinking about ideas to use on a hard boss if no one dies cause they take only 50% damage? What's the point of group search and try to meet some one new and maybe meet a new friend if the 3rd or 4th person clears the dungeon in 3 mins before you have a chance to talk?

Basicly block casting is putting us real tanks out of business cause any one can tank as long as the have a shield and become a DPS-tank or healer-tank or a 3 in 1. So there really shouldn't be roles any more since one player can fill in all 3 at once.

Beesting

G0ku wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nerf? More like it would add something to the mindlessness of tanking. Currently its child's play. No thinking involved hold block, spam taunts and defenses.

So I guess you finished Arena Hard Mode and Sanctum tanking and were bored to the death because of the child´s play ? Please deliver proof...

I do both pvp and pve, and I assure you as soon as they disable block casting without doing a fundamental change to most of the pve encounters the difficult ones while be near to impossible to accomplish. But the likes of you don´t care about it, they are just butthurt that a DK can cast GDB while blocking in pvp. I guess this is something what just doesn´t bother you therefore you give a *** about it.

So don´t pretend you even can judge how it would affect some parts of pve. 6 months of being used to block casting and you come here and tell us they should just change that single one aspect without touching the things related to it?

If this should ever happen ZOS has lost at least one sub.

Make that two, or three in this case cause i am paying for 2. I have enough of every patch nerfing things i enjoy in this game, before we know it they will remove wayshrines and travel to players

Dont think it wont happen... Pvp ers said so

ExiledKhallisi

G0ku wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nerf? More like it would add something to the mindlessness of tanking. Currently its child's play. No thinking involved hold block, spam taunts and defenses.

So I guess you finished Arena Hard Mode and Sanctum tanking and were bored to the death because of the child´s play ? Please deliver proof...

I do both pvp and pve, and I assure you as soon as they disable block casting without doing a fundamental change to most of the pve encounters the difficult ones while be near to impossible to accomplish. But the likes of you don´t care about it, they are just butthurt that a DK can cast GDB while blocking in pvp. I guess this is something what just doesn´t bother you therefore you give a *** about it.

So don´t pretend you even can judge how it would affect some parts of pve. 6 months of being used to block casting and you come here and tell us they should just change that single one aspect without touching the things related to it?

If this should ever happen ZOS has lost at least one sub.

How bad do you have to be at a simple mmo to not see how terrible block casting is?

They might as well just reduce all damage by 50%. That's how dumb block casting is. No one should be able to dish out massive damage while negateing it at the same time. It is both mindless and cheesy.

No, I havnt done arena hard mode. Why? There's no point. I crafted better gear than what drops there. But thats another argument. However, I have tanked trials. I have tanked every instance hundreds of times and I tell everyone in my group to just hold block the whole time and its easy mode.

If they dont remove block casting completely. They should at least halve the blocking % from non sword and shield wielders. Negating 50% of damage with a thin stick in front of you while wearing a dress is just stupid.

Maybe they should remove block casting and add passives to both sword n shield and heavy armor that when used together allows for block casting.

This needs to end. The devs have realized it is a problem. If you leave, no one will care.

G0ku

I see that something has to be changed about it, but the changes will have to cover much more aspects than just removing the mechanic of block casting, otherwise tanking will get next to impossible for the more demanding dungeons.

I for myself get terribly bored tanking the regular veteran dungeons, even Hel-Ra and Archives you don´t have to do much more than standing there and block - and yes it gets boring. But if I imagine tanking Hiath the Battlemaster without block casting with no further changes to the overall encounter - just try if for yourself.

tldr something has to be changed but they can´t screw over the few pve tanks left in this game with it

Arowe_eso

GreyBrow wrote: »

@ZOS_PaulSage‌ or anyone else care to comment and explain this seemingly physically impossible phenomenon to me? Are characters in the ESO world not bound by the laws of physics, and if not, why can't my character fly around like an eagle? Flying around like a bird seems to be a small feat compared to manipulating the space-time continuum so that a staff to be in two places at the same time performing two completely different actions.

they're governed by the laws of lag. an instant cast ability takes maybe .5-1 second. having all this wierd block toggle timing would make life and death in cyrodiil way too latency dependant, and i have latency issues almost daily in cyrodiil. same reason behind 360 blocking. and by making the system more complex there will likely be increased server and client load as a result

then we'll hear endless complaints about how laggy it is and you were blocking and they weren't because you'll still be outbuilt and outplayed.

GreyBrow

Arowe_eso wrote: »

then we'll hear endless complaints about how laggy it is and you were blocking and they weren't because you'll still be outbuilt and outplayed.

You obviously don't know who I am.

Armitas

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

People who complain about block casting don't understand the block mechanics of this game.

They also don't understand that if they remove Block Casting, they're going to basically force everyone into Magicka Based Shield stacking builds as the only Stamina Build remotely useful after that will be Bow..and that's getting nerfed next patch.

You'll also make 1vsX battles pointless unless you're running the Magicka Based Shield stacking builds..as in any fight greater then 1v1 you pretty much have to hold down block if you're stamina based or you're going to die...

But they don't care...Some DK killed them once and had a shield out..so we should nerf it because they're bad.

Spot on.

There are plenty of ways to deal with block spammers. Every class has a class skill to deal with them. People don't want to change up their build, they want ZOS to break the mechanic instead.

Are we really going to screw up PvP and PvE just because people don't want put the necessary things on their bar?

Here is what happens to PvP when you remove blockcasting. Those templars and DK's that are out in the middle of the raid soaking up the focus fire so you can stand still and fire from safety are now right beside you pew pewing the enemy raid. Just 1 big Pew pew off until one side decides to impulse push you. No one will be there to try and keep them off of you because they will be running away right beside you. To push an enemy raid and hold them off of you without blockcasting is suicide. There are so many skills that do damage+CC that there is always a CC in the air under focus fire. 1 knock down under that and you are dead. Immovable will stop the knock down but not the damage.

Block casting is already balanced between 5 heavy armor or 5 light armor. You cannot sustain block in 5 light but you can sustain your magicka usage. You can sustain block in 5 heavy but you cannot sustain your magicka usage. The same is true between S/B and Staff blocking. Staff Blocking costs 30% more than S/B.

Heavy armor blockers are not hard to kill, they just take time to kill. You can even resto staff them to death because resto like impulse goes through block. If you meet a heavy blocker just go Ghostbuster mode and particle beam him as a group while soaking his stamina in aoe pools and rapid fire.

Cody

I refuse to play anymore PvP until block and casting is removed or nerfed.

I am so sick of people doing nothing but holding up block and spamming skills. Its pathetic, frustrating to deal with seeing as how there are little to no counters to it(I have searched extensively for counters. iv found only a few that are not even effective) and the fact that players can get the best of both attacking AND defending in one go.......


This play style makes PvP a frustrating mess. I have had enough of people with wooden(adamantium apparently, seeing as how much damage these things seem to block) sticks, doing better in melee combat than my GIANT GREATSWORD DOES, all because they can block and spam. you jump a player BEing around like an idiot? well tough, they will just hold up block and spam you down with crushing shock. your melee attacks will not get thru them, and they end up doing better in close combat than your close combat "specialized" build does. Don't even try to tell me im trolling or lying, I have dealt with it the past month.

Overall, block and spam just makes PvP a frustrating mess, and it needs to be removed. I understand it would affect tanking in PvE(and PvP) but the mechanic is, I dare say; ruining PvP. Iv even seen DW people do nothing but hold up block and spam that flying blade ability....... really? that is all you people can do?

Don't mistake any insults I have put in for arrogance. I am one of the worst players in this game. I despise the play style(and people that do it, to an extent) because the play style is VERY detrimental to the fun in PvP. All these issues about talon spam, flame whip spam, and whatever else, they are ALL connected to block and cast in some way or form.

if players could not block and spam, many of these issues, I believe, would either be gone, or severely reduced.


Make whatever you will of this post.

Cody

Evandus wrote: »

I believe the term Paul Sage used was "game responsiveness" in terms of leaving block casting in. This seems to line up well with some of the more intelligent responses found in previous nerf request threads.

I could see them locking out offensive abilities while blocking but allowing defensive ones. For example locking out impulse, crushing shock, etc... but allowing breath of life, rapid regen, combat prayer, etc...

Not that this is a viable solution for those who complain often. But it does seem likely. Either way, what I watched a bit ago suggests that they won't be coming around to this for quite a while. Likely months down the road.

I would have no problem with that.

If you want to attack, then put down the block and ATTACK

defend? put up the block and DEFEND, NOT BOTH.

electricblues42

I'm not one to typically post to QQ here on the official forums, but I dug up my account to post this. I unsubbed a few minutes ago after fighting some block casting people (DKs too lol). I've played off and on since launch and it was the final in a few hundred rage quits. I will probably return in a few months, just hope that they seriously work on the class balance in this game.

Hope you guys continue to enjoy the game!

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

On ESO live for Oct 24. they talk about block casting and what there plans for it is. They said they left it in on purpose to increase awareness or effectiveness something like that.

I can see how this was one of those seemed like a good idea at the time thing but as you may have seen on the forums how block casting has cause alot of problems. Paul Sage said they are looking into this and said there working with block casting. Thing is Delvs if you read this there is no working with block casting it's either grey out skills when blocking or take full damage when casting skills even if your holding the block button there is no working with it not taking only half damage when holding block and casting or 75% or 90% damage It's either full damage or can't cast at all.

That is all I have to say please feel free to share your thoughts on this issue if you agree or dis-agree. Please keep it clean. Thank you for your time fellow mortals.

Block casting is just fine as it is, the only "problem" is that it involves skill to overcome. If they mess with block casting then they had better deal with ability clipping also.

It's not broken so leave it alone.

sagitter

i will be so happy if block casting will be removed.