Is there a good summary of the Champion System?

Pallmor

Everything I've read about the Champion System only seems to confuse me even more. Here are some features that I (kinda/sorta/maybe) understand:

1) XP will replace VP, so you'll get XP in vet zones the same as you did on levels 1-50 (for discovering new areas, killing enemies, completing quests, etc.)?

2) You'll also get XP in PvP? Or will this be AP only? Or both?? Okay, got no clue on this one.

2) XP will earn you Champion Points, which can be redeemed for a point on some weird Constellation Tree thingy, which goes clockwise for some reason? This is kind of like redeeming skeeball tickets for prizes--only the prizes can only be redeemed clockwise on a complicated tree of prizes and they're usually things like "Increase your weapon damage on rainy days by 0.00005%".

3) Veteran rank is determined by XP, I guess?

4) Vet ranks will now get you a skill point and attribute point?

5) Vet ranks will supposedly advance faster.

That's all I got out of it (and I'm not even clear on this much). Is there a decent, concise summary somewhere of this system that may explain it better? Because I'm still confused, and googling the subject just seems to end up with me in even more confusion.

Gilvoth

in the champion system will we be able to see exactly each and every single skill and its description available on the Entire champion skill tree and see every single posible skill i can purchase?
also, will we be able to "re-spec" choices and things we have purchased in the champion system like we currently can with skill tree we have at present?

Pallmor

To add even more confusion, I've heard that some of the stuff you earn in the new system will be account-wide (applied to all your alts), but some things won't. I'm not touching that one with a ten-foot pole, because I'm already confused enough as it is.

Cuyler

What is the Champion System?

This new system will be released in phases (four in total). (EDIT) We will be in Phase 2 with the release of update 5, and Phase 4 will be the complete removal of the Veteran Rank system. There will be an overlap between the Veteran Rank system and the Champion System.

When the removal of the Veteran Ranks happen, the max level with be lvl50 and any xp gains past that will be towards champion points. They have implemented a tracking system that is already tracking our progress, so those of us who are Veteran Rank are already earning Champion System Points.

Earning Champion Points

Once you obtain level 50 you’ll be granted access to the Champion System where you’ll be able to obtain Champion Points (2100? total/700 per tree) which you can place into the constellations of your choice.

You’ll earn these points by doing virtually anything in the game that would typically yield XP, killing monsters, questing, PvP, etc. Once you’ve earned enough XP, you'll be granted a Champion Point that you can place. You must follow one simple rule. You have to go around the sky in a clockwise order. What this means is your first point MUST be spent within the Warrior constellation, than your second point into the Thief, and your third point into the Mage.

Each section of the sky (The Warrior, The Thief, and The Mage) has three separate trees within them that you can put points into. For example, if you’re a tank there is a spot in The Mage for added spell resistances. Every section of the sky offers added benefits to every role within the game. So your points won’t ever go into a tree that isn’t providing you some sort of direct benefit.

Each tree has four abilities you can select from, offering you a total of 12 options per constellation (The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief). As you place points into these trees you’ll unlock added bonuses that are passives and don’t require you to spend points on them, and each tree has four added passives.

Paul Sage mentioned that it would take (approximately) an average time of one hour per champion point.

Account Wide

The Champion System is an account wide system. Once you’ve progressed one character to level 50 the champion system is unlocked for the account. Only level 50 characters will be able to earn points towards additional champion points but characters that are not level 50 can still reap the rewards of it.

For example, if I have a character that is level 50 and has earned 500 champion points, all my characters will have 500 champion points available to them. Each character can spend those points individually, to create a build that is unique to their character. The points are account wide, but the allocation of them is unique to each character.

One thing to keep in mind is no matter how many level 50s you have, you’ll earn champion point experience at the same rate as someone who has only one.

The Champion Experience Points is account wide (but as mentioned only level 50s can earn it) and all the earned experience will go into a large pool that encompasses the whole account. In order to earn an additional champion point the account needs to earn the required experience amount.

Enlightenment

From the moment you log off your level 50 characters and either play a character that is below level 50 or just log off for the night your account will get bestowed with enlightenment. This is a “buff” of sorts that increases the amount of Champion Experience you’ll earn for a short while. To compare this to something that players might be familiar with, it is “Rested Experience”.

This buff is placed on the Champion Experience Pool so it is account wide. It doesn’t matter which level 50 you wish to play, it’ll be earning points for the account just as it would normally, just at a slightly faster rate. This system is to help those that can’t play as often as other players. To keep them on the bell curve of progression instead of leaving them at the wayside.

EDIT: For more depth

Dominoid wrote: »

If you are interested in some of the details of the Champion System, be sure to listen to the audio recording of the Champion System Portion of the ESO Guild Summit 2014.

The first thing EVERYONE will notice when the Champion System releases is that all of their stat numbers will be multiplied by ten. That means 2,500 health becomes 25,000, or 400 frost resistance will become 4,000. This is to add "granularity" to the system. They want the player to be able to SEE the effects of their choices. So say if someone chooses a passive that increase frost resistance by 1%, it will be easier to see that change. Without the multiplier, some changes wouldn't be shown because of rounding and the player could become discouraged or feel like they wasted a point. This is gonna happen, so we should accept it.

There are three constellation groups in the Champion System one for each resource pool - The Warrior for Health, The Thief for Stamina and The Mage for Magicka.

Each constellation group has 3 sub-constellations accounting for a total of 9 constellations. That breakdown is as follows:

• Warrior (health)
  • Steed
  • Lady
  • Lord
• Thief (stamina)
  • Tower
  • Lover
  • Shadow
• Mage (magicka)
  • Ritual
  • Atronach
  • Apprentice

As mentioned, each sub-constellation has 4 passives that can be spec'ed into. In addition to these four passives each, each constellation also has four additional passives that are unlocked and strengthened as more and more points are placed into a constellation.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=aYbl5B8R9-E&t=46m0s

For example, after you place 10 Champion Points total in the Apprentice constellation you automatically unlock and get the benefits of a new passive called Extraction Boost which increases the likelihood to extract better material. Continuing to place Champion Points into the Apprentice will continue to strengthen this new passive automatically. You do not place Champion Points into this "second-tier" of passives. The second-tier is unlocked automatically as you place more Champion Points in a constellation. These second-tier passives are initially unlocked at 10, 30, 50 and 100 points in a constellation.

This brings the total amount of passives per constellation to 8 for each constellation - 4 that you spec into and four that unlock automatically. This means that a total of 72 new passives are being added by the Champion System.

A Champion Point is earned after a still-to-be-determined amount of XP has been received by the player. That Champion Point can then be placed into the Champion System constellations, but there are some rules as to how they get placed.

CHAMPION POINTS ARE PLACED INTO THE CHAMPION SYSTEM ON A HEALTH-STAMINA-MAGICKA ROTATION

Let's dig into that statement a little more. The first Champion Point you earn MUST BE placed into the Warrior (health) constellation group. You can place it into either the Steed, Lady or Lord constellation. You choose. That gives you twelve options - four each. After you make your choice, the Warrior constellations will "rotate" and your next point must then be placed into the Thief (stamina) group. Your next point then obviously gets placed in the Mage (magicka) group. The rotation then continues in this manner in perpetuity.

There are two main reasons for this. First is to frankly slow the player's progression so they can't max any one stat too quickly. The second is to help with player diversification. Take it as you will, but that is how the system will work. This means that if you want to max out 700 points in Light Armor you will need to earn 2100 Champion Points because of the rotation system.

ZOS went out of their way to mention that each constellation group, Warrior-Thief-Mage, has passives that make sense for each play style (holy trinity). So there will be something for Tanks in the Warrior, Thief and Mage constellations. Same for each of the play styles so it's not as restrictive as it seems.

Placing points into the same passive over and over has diminishing returns. What does that mean? The example used was the first point you place into Light Armor may grant you a 1% increase in armor rating, but placing the 40th point into Light Armor might only grant you a 0.1% increase in armor (another reason for increasing all stats ten fold). This mechanic helps to keep players somewhat close in raw numbers but also means that diversifying your Champion Point allocation may yield the best overall results.

There will be a respec mechanism in place when the Champion System releases. It is quite robust and will not require you to click your mouse button 1,000 or more times to perform a respec. There is information on the respec process in the full audio above.

Wanna learn the future? - 12+ Hours of Audio from Guild Summit 2014

static_recharge

@Cuyler, very nice info! Thank you for the clear explanation.

Only thing I have to add is I think we will be on Phase 3 of the Veteran to Champion transformation when Update 5 comes out. With Update 5 VP will be no more and replaced by XP (the overlap phase that you mentioned).

superfluke

Will the post 50 vet points already acrued be credited to the champion pool? If you are the type who just plays one character, and they have already done all landscape content with no further quests or dungeons or dolmens etc to complete, where will the bulk of xp gain come from?

Nestor

Cuyler wrote: »

For example, if I have a character that is level 50 and has earned 500 champion points, all my characters will have 500 champion points available to them. Each character can spend those points individually, to create a build that is unique to their character. The points are account wide, but the allocation of them is unique to each character.

So I can roll an alt, drop out of Coldharbor and build a uber toon at L3 by allocating all the CP's that my VR Ranked character has acquired?

That does not make game sense to me. Low level characters are supposed to be weak, or weakish.

Cuyler

Edit: added to above post

Pallmor

Cuyler wrote: »

What is the Champion System?
Phase 4 will be the complete removal of the Veteran Rank system

So they're completely removing Veteran ranks? Wow. So at VR1 (or "Level 50" or "Veteran" now, I guess), players will be able to equip Voidcloth/Voidstone armors and weapons? Well, that would certainly help even things out a bit in PvP. But I imagine it will kill the market for anything less than legendary Voidcloth/Voidstone gear (why buy any heavy armor or gear after lvl 50 except Voidstone?).

As a VR1 who would love a nice legendary set of VR14 gear, I definitely welcome this change.

Pallmor

Nestor wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

For example, if I have a character that is level 50 and has earned 500 champion points, all my characters will have 500 champion points available to them. Each character can spend those points individually, to create a build that is unique to their character. The points are account wide, but the allocation of them is unique to each character.

So I can roll an alt, drop out of Coldharbor and build a uber toon at L3 by allocating all the CP's that my VR Ranked character has acquired?

That does not make game sense to me. Low level characters are supposed to be weak, or weakish.

I does certainly make creating an alt a lot more attractive. I imagine you'll be crushing anything in your path on the early levels.

Cuyler

Here's a post by the CP system lead developer:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

We are hard at work on it and I’m here to answer a few of your questions. Most of these questions were also asked during our Guild Round Table in the last two days.

How will the current system change when the Champion System gets introduced?

The Champion System will introduce new past lvl 50 progression for your account where previously there was only an increase in Veteran Ranks and Attributes. The Champion System allows you spend points in the constellations to earn powerful passives such as giving your bash a chance to snare targets, reduce the amount of damage you take from flames or leech health on critical strikes.


What happens to the Veteran Ranks we currently have VR1-12?

We want to remove the Veteran Ranks from the game and rely on the more active progression provided by the Champion System. However, when we release the Champion System we will continue to maintain Veteran Ranks. We have several options as to how we will remove Veteran Ranks but all of them require time and careful planning. In the meantime, we are making Veteran Ranks earned by XP and reducing the overall time it takes to get a Veteran Rank. We are also rewarding an Attribute Point and a Skill Point each time you reach a Veteran Rank.


What happens to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?

The Skill Points we reward will not be removed from you! You will continue to have the same amount of Skill Points you do now. The Champion System does not reward any Skill Points, only gaining Veteran Ranks does. When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.


Does everyone that is a Veteran Rank get lowered back to lvl50? Or are the Ranks staying, but only being changed to lvl 51, 52, etc instead?

Similar to an answer before, we just don’t know yet.


Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

Pallmor

Sometimes I think the planners at ZOS tend to move on stuff before they've really thought things through. ;-)

Cuyler

Nestor wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

For example, if I have a character that is level 50 and has earned 500 champion points, all my characters will have 500 champion points available to them. Each character can spend those points individually, to create a build that is unique to their character. The points are account wide, but the allocation of them is unique to each character.

So I can roll an alt, drop out of Coldharbor and build a uber toon at L3 by allocating all the CP's that my VR Ranked character has acquired?

That does not make game sense to me. Low level characters are supposed to be weak, or weakish.

I'm assuming its due to that you've already got a character to lvl50. Vet players complained in droves about how they had to continually repeat content over and over for each character. This seems like a way to avoid that grind.

I agree with you though, a new character is just that, a new character. It should have to work through the content to increase in strength.

Cuyler

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

in the champion system will we be able to see exactly each and every single skill and its description available on the Entire champion skill tree and see every single posible skill i can purchase?
also, will we be able to "re-spec" choices and things we have purchased in the champion system like we currently can with skill tree we have at present?

I'm not sure about seeing everything in the tree, I assume its like skyrim's constellation trees in which you could.

Yes, there will be a respect option for CPs.

Cuyler

superfluke wrote: »

Will the post 50 vet points already acrued be credited to the champion pool? If you are the type who just plays one character, and they have already done all landscape content with no further quests or dungeons or dolmens etc to complete, where will the bulk of xp gain come from?

There is already a system in place to track VP gains, and when update 5 launches the system will then track all XP. All of that will be converted to CPs when the system launches in either v1.6 or v1.7.

I can't say where the "bulk" of XP would come from for someone who's finished questing in Calwell's gold or all the way to upper craglorn.

I know for myself I enjoy taking teams on vet dungeon runs and fighting the alliance war. Basically a grind at that point until they release more endgame content I guess. Arena maybe?

Cuyler

Pallmor wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

What is the Champion System?
Phase 4 will be the complete removal of the Veteran Rank system

So they're completely removing Veteran ranks? Wow. So at VR1 (or "Level 50" or "Veteran" now, I guess), players will be able to equip Voidcloth/Voidstone armors and weapons? Well, that would certainly help even things out a bit in PvP. But I imagine it will kill the market for anything less than legendary Voidcloth/Voidstone gear (why buy any heavy armor or gear after lvl 50 except Voidstone?).

As a VR1 who would love a nice legendary set of VR14 gear, I definitely welcome this change.

Yup, VR ranks will be gone. Logistically they have not figured how the gear will be affected by this. Or they have, but have not released an announcement yet.
This is why we will continue to see VR ranks until Phase 4.

So the answer, "they just don't know yet" LOL. I'm thinking we won't see these changes until mid-January so there's still some time.

Nestor

Cuyler wrote: »

I'm assuming its due to that you've already got a character to lvl50. Vet players complained in droves about how they had to continually repeat content over and over for each character. This seems like a way to avoid that grind.

I agree with you though, a new character is just that, a new character. It should have to work through the content to increase in strength.

It makes sense that it should be limited to higher level characters. However, a soon to be former VR14 can amass huge amounts of Exp or CP compared to a former VR1. So, grind with the highest level, the lower levels reap the benefits. Not as much as being able to give points to someone fresh out of the Wailing Prison. I am still scratching my head over this.

In some ways I would prefer that it be character specific. In other ways I like this. I mean, why would my alt parked in a Tavern somewhere get better in a skill line just because another character earned some exp.

Pallmor

Cuyler wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

What is the Champion System?
Phase 4 will be the complete removal of the Veteran Rank system

So they're completely removing Veteran ranks? Wow. So at VR1 (or "Level 50" or "Veteran" now, I guess), players will be able to equip Voidcloth/Voidstone armors and weapons? Well, that would certainly help even things out a bit in PvP. But I imagine it will kill the market for anything less than legendary Voidcloth/Voidstone gear (why buy any heavy armor or gear after lvl 50 except Voidstone?).

As a VR1 who would love a nice legendary set of VR14 gear, I definitely welcome this change.

Yup, VR ranks will be gone. Logistically they have not figured how the gear will be affected by this. Or they have, but have not released an announcement yet.
This is why we will continue to see VR ranks until Phase 4.

So the answer, "they just don't know yet" LOL. I'm thinking we won't see these changes until mid-January so there's still some time.

Maybe they'll just replace it with levels 50-100, just like in 1-50. I always thought the veteran rank system was pretty silly to begin with. Why not just keep it like the first fifty levels?

superfluke

It makes sense that it should be limited to higher level characters. However, a soon to be former VR14 can amass huge amounts of Exp or CP compared to a former VR1.

This is where I'm still not clear, and admittedly I was born partly stupid. But if I am a former VR1 with ten zones worth of quest turn-ins ahead of me, won't that be an easier way to gain CP than a VR14 who has finished most content and competes for crag grind groups?

Cuyler

superfluke wrote: »

It makes sense that it should be limited to higher level characters. However, a soon to be former VR14 can amass huge amounts of Exp or CP compared to a former VR1.

This is where I'm still not clear, and admittedly I was born partly stupid. But if I am a former VR1 with ten zones worth of quest turn-ins ahead of me, won't that be an easier way to gain CP than a VR14 who has finished most content and competes for crag grind groups?

The answer is two parts.

First, a former VR14 will have much more XP (or VR points to be more specific) which will transfer over to CPs than a VR1.

For example, lets say a VR1 has made 1 mil XP over its total playtime which would transfer to say 50 CPs. Then lets say the former VR14 made 14 mil XP over its total playtime which transfers to lets say 700 CPs. As you can see immediately when the CP system launches the VR14 will have many more CPs than the VR1.

Second, the system is designed to have diminishing returns. This means that as you progress higher the payoff for each point distributed in the CP trees has a lower effect than the last. The system inherently wants to level the playing field for players who don't play as often as those who are VR14.

The simple answer is yes, it would be harder for a VR14 to get CPs.

I think this is intended. Due to the diminishing returns it won't matter as much to a VR14 to increase by a few CPs when they've already got 700+ points in their tree.

superfluke

Ok thanks for the info! I wasn't clear on whether previously earned xp was being transferred to the champion pool. It would have been an oversight otherwise, but I wasn't assuming anything either.

olemanwinter

As a "gear" nut, I feel like Zos is really risking my subscription.

I feel like I should either unsub for a few months and come back after....or they run the risk of me unsubbing permanently after the new system if my efforts and gear acquired in the next few months is wasted/ruined.

ers101284b14_ESO

olemanwinter wrote: »

As a "gear" nut, I feel like Zos is really risking my subscription.

I feel like I should either unsub for a few months and come back after....or they run the risk of me unsubbing permanently after the new system if my efforts and gear acquired in the next few months is wasted/ruined.

In part 4 you can look forward to gear seasons. So you might have to wait for that.

CrazedDark

I'm now even more excited for the Champion System. -ESO intensifies-

Audigy

I wouldn't be surprised if they scrubbed the season idea, too many people don't like it and it would kill crafting which after ZO officials is one of the big features to keep valuable.

Sad about all that confusion is that nobody really knows anything, it would be wonderful if they could make an ESO live with only the CS. Showing us where they stand right now, what their ideas are and when it can be expected on the PTS.

zaria

Audigy wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if they scrubbed the season idea, too many people don't like it and it would kill crafting which after ZO officials is one of the big features to keep valuable.

Sad about all that confusion is that nobody really knows anything, it would be wonderful if they could make an ESO live with only the CS. Showing us where they stand right now, what their ideas are and when it can be expected on the PTS.

With seasons I guess you think armor tires like in WOW.
To some degree this is implemented in that new content brings new armor sets.
However WOW tires also had better raw stats, while the sets only have the set bonus.

Eiron77

If you want a current, released example of this system google about Diablo 3's paragon system released with their expansion, Reaper of Souls. The Champion system will be very similar to this, but with the TES twist of the constellations.

I really like this system, as it makes your alts more powerful and gives you the feeling of character progression that doesn't stop at max level. So I think this is a great addition to the game.

Cuyler

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