Sneak Attack with Bow Tested. Live V.S. PTS 1.5.1

Asgari

Lorkhan wrote: »

Isbilen, grown up. this thread is all about balance, we cant talk about balance without compare the gamestyles.

Isbilen wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

This is our whole beef. The entire playerbase has been asking for balancing stuff since day 1. Then, 4 or 5 casuals in light armor with 0 health and 0 armor get killed with snipes and the result is to nerf stealth damage across the board.


1. Fix the stuff we've been complaining about before inserting new things into the list.
2. Listen to the actual PvPers as part of #1.
3. Stop nerfing everyone's stealth damage to "fix" one skill doing too much damage from stealth.

I agree with you on your three points. Nerfing the stelth damage from bow would be enough, but your first paragraph is certainly wrong.

Here's my stats:

Here's damage from a snipe I was hit with:

Funny how a normal skill can deal more damage than a 150 ultimate cost ability channeled over 4 seconds. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that the snipe can be weaved to hit together with a 1K+ heavy attack and 1K+ venom arrow within one second of the initial hit too.

what do you think about a skill insta regen 1000 health? no stealth needed, no ultimate needed. you just need to be almost dead and use dragon blood. look: "Heals for 33% of missing Health. Increases Health Recovery by 40% for 20 seconds." so, for exemple, you have 3300 health. if you hit DB when 300 health, you gain 1000 health. you use again, + 600 health. so, 1600 health in 2 gcd. wtf is this? this is absurd, insane. nerf this ***, damn blind devs.

edit: i can sneak attk once per fight, DK can use DB infinite times a fight.

you know that disease keeps you from regening and healing that much correct....

Another case of L2P.

Arowe_eso

Honfold wrote: »

3 from the same person? I am not sure if the reduction in cast time is going to be that much.

I meant from 3 different people. That's one outlier that's incredibly strong considering the small level of coordination required

Erock25

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

1. You don't get it, that's obvious. The beef is that the stealth nerf inordinately damages NB far more than any other class. Additionally, it is one tiny (unasked for?) PvP fix when we have been demanding tons for months.
2. No, you don't. Anyone can put together a greatest hits video over weeks and pretend like it shows something. Beating 2 guys who sucked and were 5 levels below you doesn't show domination. When I see a NB video like @Lfehova‌ posted last week, then we can start the NB is plenty balanced thread.
3. This isn't a class whine. Its a complaint about a pending nerf inordinately affecting one (already underpowered) class more than others. Worse, the staff prioritized this nerf ahead of stuff like balancing Impulse.


Hopefully this post educates you. Clearly you need some help, are you ESL? Seems like understanding English is like deciphering hieroglyphics for you.

1. You don't get that 2.5-3k burst from stealth is just wrong. You don't get that NB will still have the strongest stealth attacks. You don't get that there have been countless topics about how ridiculous some of these stealth bow one shots are.
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTglToXbkvw&list=UUGJvaoO5wBjgoWppJAdqrwQ
3. You insult my language skills yet use words which you have no idea of the meaning. The stealth nerf hits each class equally. It actually hits NB the least since they still have other things boosting stealth attacks.

Honfold

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

3 from the same person? I am not sure if the reduction in cast time is going to be that much.

I meant from 3 different people. That's one outlier that's incredibly strong considering the small level of coordination required

Yep, two coordinated NBs are pretty dominate. I have run it a few times with a guild member.

Ifthir_ESO

1. Burst of that is higher than my 3 funnel health casts how? I can do that right now with 3 funnel healths or 2 snipes. What I suspect you are really complaining about is the nerf to annulment which now doesn't block non-spells. So you don't get a shield vs. focused aim/lethal arrow.
2. Posting video of a NB with resto+sword/board is relevant to a stealth damage nerf thread how? L2read.
3. No, no it doesn't. What do I know about NBs though, clearly you who have never played one know more than I do having played one since alpha.



/ignored you at this point respond or dont, I dgaf



Other stuff that hits for 3k in a few casts

Erock25

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

1. Burst of that is higher than my 3 funnel health casts how? I can do that right now with 3 funnel healths or 2 snipes.
2. Posting video of a NB with resto+sword/board is relevant to a stealth damage nerf thread how? L2read.
3. No, no it doesn't. What do I know about NBs though, clearly you who have never played one know more than I do having played one since alpha.

/ignored you at this point respond or dont, I dgaf

You ask for a pvp video of a nb played like a DK, i provide it, and you dismiss it for no reason. L2read indeed.

MrGhosty

I'm disappointed in this change, my NB has been my primary PvP character and the situations where I feel like I can effectively contribute (when I say contribute, I mean in a keep fight not parked in a field picking the low level targets.) were already fairly constrained and loosing some of that stealth damage boost is a shame. It could all come out in the wash though in conjunction with the changes to bow they're making.

I can see balancing things like this but I am again confused as to how this takes precedence over some of the larger problems out there. I tend use what I'm seeing other players doing as a method for which aspects of the game are most successful. I still don't see a prevalence of NBs out there, and very few with a bow. Most of the players that I do see with a bow (myself included) tend to act in a support role and use that range to drop damage on enemies leaving them to be finished off by DKs and Sorcs.

jelliedsoup

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

It is strange, I'm not even a bow user right now I'm a magic Ambush build and my whole attack rotation revolves around teleporting in, killing and teleporting out and cloaking.

Given the teleport can be flaky at times and cloak is very flaky most of the time I'm finding it a really strange nerf. Apparently holding block and never ending healing with a fear that they can still block though or Sorc shield spam given them more shield than their 3k health is okay though.

I can live with the changes, I'm just finding the logic of it baffling. Bow users are easy pray for me.

Many people who use the bow happen to be NBS. I'm stuck with the class as I thought it would be different. I have low magicka and use 1 nb skill. Stam is still going to lose to magicka, I am easy prey. But Id rather play how I want than based on how poorly and one sided the developers mistakenly or intentionally coded for.

Ifthir_ESO

MrGhosty wrote: »

I am again confused as to how this takes precedence over some of the larger problems out there

Your post was very well said, better than I did, and this part in particular is my true gripe. I may be clouding my venom with class-related angst over the change but in general it is just baffling to see this be the big PvP change at a time where the PvP environment is literally crying out for attention on numerous critical areas.

jelliedsoup

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

I am again confused as to how this takes precedence over some of the larger problems out there

Your post was very well said, better than I did, and this part in particular is my true gripe. I may be clouding my venom with class-related angst over the change but in general it is just baffling to see this be the big PvP change at a time where the PvP environment is literally crying out for attention on numerous critical areas.

It appears all magicka based skills are functioning as required. If 1.5 is as bad as I expect I will probably be out.

Its getting tedious now.

kijima

Whats an stamina?

MiyaTheUnbroken

Arowe_eso wrote: »

I posted this in another thread but I'll say it again. Nerfing global stealth damage allows for a nb specific buff to stealth attacks through their passive.

Also, people are seeming to forget impulse and annulment are getting nerfs, and that snipe is getting buffed for every scenario but the sneak attack in that same patch

3 simultaneous stealth snipes can instagib someone. The over talked about 1 person ganking one person with a bow scenario is not why stealth damage is being nerfed.

3 simultaneous fire ballistas can kill someone. 3 simultaneous crystal frags can kill someone. 3 simultaneous javelins can kill someone. It goes on and on. That's the point of coordinated attacks. I don't see how this is relevant.

Lorkhan

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

Isbilen, grown up. this thread is all about balance, we cant talk about balance without compare the gamestyles.

Isbilen wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

This is our whole beef. The entire playerbase has been asking for balancing stuff since day 1. Then, 4 or 5 casuals in light armor with 0 health and 0 armor get killed with snipes and the result is to nerf stealth damage across the board.


1. Fix the stuff we've been complaining about before inserting new things into the list.
2. Listen to the actual PvPers as part of #1.
3. Stop nerfing everyone's stealth damage to "fix" one skill doing too much damage from stealth.

I agree with you on your three points. Nerfing the stelth damage from bow would be enough, but your first paragraph is certainly wrong.

Here's my stats:

Here's damage from a snipe I was hit with:

Funny how a normal skill can deal more damage than a 150 ultimate cost ability channeled over 4 seconds. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that the snipe can be weaved to hit together with a 1K+ heavy attack and 1K+ venom arrow within one second of the initial hit too.

what do you think about a skill insta regen 1000 health? no stealth needed, no ultimate needed. you just need to be almost dead and use dragon blood. look: "Heals for 33% of missing Health. Increases Health Recovery by 40% for 20 seconds." so, for exemple, you have 3300 health. if you hit DB when 300 health, you gain 1000 health. you use again, + 600 health. so, 1600 health in 2 gcd. wtf is this? this is absurd, insane. nerf this ***, damn blind devs.

edit: i can sneak attk once per fight, DK can use DB infinite times a fight.

you know that disease keeps you from regening and healing that much correct....

Another case of L2P.

@Princess_Asgari , what would be the new DB healing values when disease is applied? tell me, please. show me the numbers, if you can....

just another case of DK with no sense of balance.

Lorkhan

some info for you, Asgari:
Elemental status only have a 10% chance to trigger and only once every 4 seconds and only if using light, heavy attks (1 trigger per 40 seconds). what was you saying? l2p?

Maulkin

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

1. Burst of that is higher than my 3 funnel health casts how? I can do that right now with 3 funnel healths or 2 snipes. What I suspect you are really complaining about is the nerf to annulment which now doesn't block non-spells. So you don't get a shield vs. focused aim/lethal arrow.
2. Posting video of a NB with resto+sword/board is relevant to a stealth damage nerf thread how? L2read.
3. No, no it doesn't. What do I know about NBs though, clearly you who have never played one know more than I do having played one since alpha.



/ignored you at this point respond or dont, I dgaf



Other stuff that hits for 3k in a few casts

Lol.

That sorc landed 3 different attacks which (even with a frag proc on the 2nd frag) would take take about 3 secs to land on the target. So that is still 1/3 of the DPS you get by landing the 3 stealthed attacks together in under 1 sec.

Also all 3 attacks (2 frags, 1 fury) crit on the target, which means (since the sorc can't push crit over 70%) the target was not wearing impenetrable. Impenetrable btw does nothing for stealth attacks.

Another difference is that Frags don't get any stealth bonus and they pop the Sorc out of stealth so it's easier to avoid a sorc attack when you see it coming, isn't it?

But sure, go ahead compare apples to oranges.

I have no issues with a ranged stamina build (bow) doing similar DPS to a ranged mage when out of stealth. Which is around 1k DPS tops if he's purely attacking and gets crits. However I'm not okay with bow doing >3k DPS, or burst damage as you may call it since in this scenario the are the same thing.

By the looks of things ZOS agree, judging by the changes which will increase the out of stealth DPS but reduce the burst from stealth.

Ifthir_ESO

So its pretty obvious you are a sorc who is getting owned by snipe.

Please l2p until the new patch. Then stack annulment/hardened ward/healing ward and do the whole streak/swarm/impulse you've grown accustomed to.

Erock25

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

So its pretty obvious you are a sorc who is getting owned by snipe.

Please l2p until the new patch. Then stack annulment/hardened ward/healing ward and do the whole streak/swarm/impulse you've grown accustomed to.

Your tears sustain me.

Maulkin

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

So its pretty obvious you are a sorc who is getting owned by snipe.

Please l2p until the new patch. Then stack annulment/hardened ward/healing ward and do the whole streak/swarm/impulse you've grown accustomed to.

Awww

I like it when you're firing personal attacks without knowing anything about the player

I play a Sorc and a DK evenly. Both v14 with same Alliance Rank (Captain). I'm not a vamp on either of them. I play class-based magicka builds on both, which means maxing spell dmg and low weapon dmg: therefore, no using Impulse.

I have no problem with getting jumped and getting killed by Ambushers. It happens and it's cool. I have a problem with getting killed in under 1 sec by somebody who's never exposed himself to any danger. Somebody who got stealth bonus on 3 attacks.

If I sit there putting 3 shields constantly up, I'll have no magicka left to do anything else in combat. And you get stealth attacked a lot during combat too.

Ifthir_ESO

So just to be clear, you think snipe is what is OP?

It's so OP you don't even use it, right? LOL @ you

Ifthir_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a vamp on either of them.

Maybe it was this thread that threw me off

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115626/clouding-swarm-bug#latest

Maulkin

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a vamp on either of them.

Maybe it was this thread that threw me off

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115626/clouding-swarm-bug#latest

That's from June. It's October now. I've played as vamp as pretty much everyone else has, to experience another skill line available through the game.

I personally feel, for PvP, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages and I find the Impulse+Batswarm builds a bit cheesy nowadays. Plus since I duel, having fire vulnerability will get me nowhere.