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Sneak Attack with Bow Tested. Live V.S. PTS 1.5.1
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Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭There is a counter play, I use it all the time on my NB.
Taping down the right mouse button?
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Lorkhan✭✭✭✭✭What makes all you people think that you deserve the ability to kill other players in half a second without ever being seen? The people you're playing against are real people who are also paying for the game, not a Skyrim NPC. This is not balanced at all, and I find it absolutely ridiculous that anyone can defend the currently massive damage of the bow in PvP, even to heavy armored characters.
so you are talking about balance?? what makes you think that someone deserve to stand against other 6+ real people (not 6 skyrim npcs,. real ppl). tanking, blocking, bursting, dropping ultimates, like a f*** boss, god mode. someone deserve a skill that make them instant regen full health when they almost dead? think again about balance.3 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭so you are talking about balance?? what makes you think that someone deserve to stand against other 6+ real people (not 6 skyrim npcs,. real ppl). tanking, blocking, bursting, dropping ultimates, like a f*** boss, god mode. someone deserve a skill that make them instant regen full health when they almost dead? think again about balance.
That's not the topic of this thread, and your post definitely exaggerates by a lot, but I do agree that the Dragonknight class is a little bit overpowered, mostly because of the ultimate generated from reflected attacks that's allowing the facetanking playstyle.Edited by Isbilen on October 23, 2014 5:29PM1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭so you are talking about balance?? what makes you think that someone deserve to stand against other 6+ real people (not 6 skyrim npcs,. real ppl). tanking, blocking, bursting, dropping ultimates, like a f*** boss, god mode. someone deserve a skill that make them instant regen full health when they almost dead? think again about balance.
That's not the topic of this thread, and your post definitely exaggerates by a lot, but I do agree that the Dragonknight class is a little bit overpowered, mostly because of the ultimate generated from reflected attacks that's allowing the facetanking playstyle.
it is the topic, are you trying to avoid the facts? and by the way we have videos prooving the dragonights can tank alot more then what he is mentioning.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i allready know your going to ask for some of that video proof so here is just one of the videos below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwDoRXIrUGU 0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭heres another one - the amount of video proof and witnesses is overwhelming, infact i myself have seen dragonights tank upwards of 15 people and kill all of them.
- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/133576/dragonknight-1vx-pvp-move-outnumbered/p12 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »It is strange, I'm not even a bow user right now I'm a magic Ambush build and my whole attack rotation revolves around teleporting in, killing and teleporting out and cloaking.
Given the teleport can be flaky at times and cloak is very flaky most of the time I'm finding it a really strange nerf. Apparently holding block and never ending healing with a fear that they can still block though or Sorc shield spam given them more shield than their 3k health is okay though.
I can live with the changes, I'm just finding the logic of it baffling. Bow users are easy pray for me.
In exactly the same boat. I just don't understand this change. I've been killed by a bow, usually when not paying attention, getting too far from my group, or in a 1v1 situation where they out-performed me. Either of those situations it was completely in my control to change the outcome had I paid closer attention or just use my skills better.
So strange.Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.2 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »it is the topic, are you trying to avoid the facts? and by the way we have videos prooving the dragonights can tank alot more then what he is mentioning.
The title clearly reads "Sneak Attack with Bow Tested", not "dk op
"
And regarding the video you posted, I don't see the problem. You link a video from someone who from what I've gathered here on the forums is considered one of the best players on the NA server, and a bunch of fools feeding him free ultimate to power his bats.Edited by Isbilen on October 23, 2014 6:16PM3 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I do agree that the Dragonknight class is a little bit overpowered
This is our whole beef. The entire playerbase has been asking for balancing stuff since day 1. Then, 4 or 5 casuals in light armor with 0 health and 0 armor get killed with snipes and the result is to nerf stealth damage across the board.
1. Fix the stuff we've been complaining about before inserting new things into the list.
2. Listen to the actual PvPers as part of #1.
3. Stop nerfing everyone's stealth damage to "fix" one skill doing too much damage from stealth.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »I do agree that the Dragonknight class is a little bit overpowered
This is our whole beef. The entire playerbase has been asking for balancing stuff since day 1. Then, 4 or 5 casuals in light armor with 0 health and 0 armor get killed with snipes and the result is to nerf stealth damage across the board.
1. Fix the stuff we've been complaining about before inserting new things into the list.
2. Listen to the actual PvPers as part of #1.
3. Stop nerfing everyone's stealth damage to "fix" one skill doing too much damage from stealth.
You like to exaggerate it seems. Why do NB cry so hard? I know it is not because they are weak .... plenty of video proof recently to but that topic to rest.
Edited by Erock25 on October 23, 2014 6:15PMYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points4 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭No link to video proof.
No examples of what I exaggerate.
Thinly veiled insults implying tears.
Nothing in your post has any substance, next time you decide to post, please don't.3 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »This is our whole beef. The entire playerbase has been asking for balancing stuff since day 1. Then, 4 or 5 casuals in light armor with 0 health and 0 armor get killed with snipes and the result is to nerf stealth damage across the board.
1. Fix the stuff we've been complaining about before inserting new things into the list.
2. Listen to the actual PvPers as part of #1.
3. Stop nerfing everyone's stealth damage to "fix" one skill doing too much damage from stealth.
I agree with you on your three points. Nerfing the stelth damage from bow would be enough, but your first paragraph is certainly wrong.
Here's my stats:
Here's damage from a snipe I was hit with:
Funny how a normal skill can deal more damage than a 150 ultimate cost ability channeled over 4 seconds. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that the snipe can be weaved to hit together with a 1K+ heavy attack and 1K+ venom arrow within one second of the initial hit too.
Edited by Isbilen on October 23, 2014 6:32PM4 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭Any nerf to weapon skills appears contrary to zos implications of rebalancing.
Given they really messed up the the initial balance,magicka uses should be thankful that stam builds have stuck around to a be an easy kill for you.
Cast blocking is not exactly tricky is it?
And yes I do play an nb but I use one nb skill.Edited by jelliedsoup on October 23, 2014 6:35PMwww.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO42 -
MiyaTheUnbroken✭✭✭✭What makes all you people think that you deserve the ability to kill other players in half a second without ever being seen? The people you're playing against are real people who are also paying for the game, not a Skyrim NPC. This is not balanced at all, and I find it absolutely ridiculous that anyone can defend the currently massive damage of the bow in PvP, even to heavy armored characters.
I think I deserve my stealth crit and snipe damage because it's all I do. I don't have a shield, I don't have a heal, I barely break 2k health with tripots. I am a glass cannon, which is a perfectly viable build. This game is supposed to be play as you want. I want to be a glass cannon. I really don't see why that's so hard to understand. If I could have 3k+ hp, and still open with 1.7k damage, then yeah, that'd be pretty crazy, but I can't, so I don't see how it's unreasonable.2 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Funny how a normal skill can deal more damage than a 150 ultimate cost ability channeled over 4 seconds. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that the snipe can be weaved to hit together with a 1K+ heavy attack and 1K+ venom arrow within one second of the initial hit too.
@Pixysticks hit my vamp for 2400 heavy attack in PvP the other day. I've never seen a snipe hit for that much in PvP.
I could write a whole speech about how wrong you are about bow, but its not worth even typing.
Do me a favor, play a bow spec, dominate everyone, then comment on how they should be nerfed. Right now you just sound like a bad who needs to learn the #1 skill in ESO which is block and negates 90% of bow usage.
Seriously when was the last time in a raid someone was like "well its all these bow users that are just too powerful for us to overcome".
Balancing impulse should have been done when they 'fixed' bash. Meanwhile, its still the #1 skill on 90% of people's bars, and instead of balancing that, they first nerfed stealth speed now stealth damage.
Priorities are not something handled well at ESO
@ZOS_MattFiror I am talking to you and @ZOS_PaulSage
help us out and give us some PvP balance rather than one lame fix that casuals requestedEdited by Ifthir_ESO on October 23, 2014 6:57PM2 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »No link to video proof.
No examples of what I exaggerate.
Thinly veiled insults implying tears.
Nothing in your post has any substance, next time you decide to post, please don't.
I know that wasn't a reply to me, but here's a video of a skilled NB.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTglToXbkvw
I like the part around 2:50 best, when the two dragonknights try to whip him (vampire nightblade) to death, but he as a very good and skilled player ends up kicking their ass hard to the ground.
Edit: I just noticed that you've posted a reply while I was writing this, and I do!
I have a 5 piece Hunding's Rage set, 2x weapon damage jewlery and 2x Red Mountain pieces that I combine with stamina + health food, stamina mundus stone and the DK igneous weapons buff that I swap to if I'm feeling like a ***. I still think it's way too powerful. Also if you had visited the Thornblade EU thread you would have known I'm a huge arguer for nerfing Impulse too.Edited by Isbilen on October 23, 2014 7:05PM1 -
Lorkhan✭✭✭✭✭Isbilen, grown up. this thread is all about balance, we cant talk about balance without compare the gamestyles.Ifthir_ESO wrote: »This is our whole beef. The entire playerbase has been asking for balancing stuff since day 1. Then, 4 or 5 casuals in light armor with 0 health and 0 armor get killed with snipes and the result is to nerf stealth damage across the board.
1. Fix the stuff we've been complaining about before inserting new things into the list.
2. Listen to the actual PvPers as part of #1.
3. Stop nerfing everyone's stealth damage to "fix" one skill doing too much damage from stealth.
I agree with you on your three points. Nerfing the stelth damage from bow would be enough, but your first paragraph is certainly wrong.
Here's my stats:
Here's damage from a snipe I was hit with:
Funny how a normal skill can deal more damage than a 150 ultimate cost ability channeled over 4 seconds. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that the snipe can be weaved to hit together with a 1K+ heavy attack and 1K+ venom arrow within one second of the initial hit too.
what do you think about a skill insta regen 1000 health? no stealth needed, no ultimate needed. you just need to be almost dead and use dragon blood. look: "Heals for 33% of missing Health. Increases Health Recovery by 40% for 20 seconds." so, for exemple, you have 3300 health. if you hit DB when 300 health, you gain 1000 health. you use again, + 600 health. so, 1600 health in 2 gcd. wtf is this? this is absurd, insane. nerf this ***, damn blind devs.
edit: i can sneak attk once per fight, DK can use DB infinite times a fight.Edited by Lorkhan on October 23, 2014 7:28PM0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »This is our whole beef. The entire playerbase has been asking for balancing stuff since day 1. Then, 4 or 5 casuals in light armor with 0 health and 0 armor get killed with snipes and the result is to nerf stealth damage across the board.
1. Fix the stuff we've been complaining about before inserting new things into the list.
2. Listen to the actual PvPers as part of #1.
3. Stop nerfing everyone's stealth damage to "fix" one skill doing too much damage from stealth.
I agree with you on your three points. Nerfing the stelth damage from bow would be enough, but your first paragraph is certainly wrong.
Here's my stats:
Here's damage from a snipe I was hit with:
Funny how a normal skill can deal more damage than a 150 ultimate cost ability channeled over 4 seconds. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that the snipe can be weaved to hit together with a 1K+ heavy attack and 1K+ venom arrow within one second of the initial hit too.
Venom arrow in no way comes close to 1k damage.
Edited by Xsorus on October 23, 2014 7:14PMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I know that wasn't a reply to me, but here's a video of a skilled NB.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTglToXbkvw
Batswarming and fighting vs a v4 and v9 isn't all that indicative of NB skills but the player clearly is good.I have a 5 piece Hunding's Rage set, 2x weapon damage jewlery and 2x Red Mountain pieces that I combine with stamina + health food, stamina mundus stone and the DK igneous weapons buff that I swap to.
So you play a DK and you are complaining about bow being OP but not DK abilities? And you agree impulse needed to be nerfed (since day 1) but you feel it was better to prioritize stealth dmg nerf? I am lost, sorry not familiar with you the player.
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Honfold✭✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »I do agree that the Dragonknight class is a little bit overpowered
This is our whole beef. The entire playerbase has been asking for balancing stuff since day 1. Then, 4 or 5 casuals in light armor with 0 health and 0 armor get killed with snipes and the result is to nerf stealth damage across the board.
1. Fix the stuff we've been complaining about before inserting new things into the list.
2. Listen to the actual PvPers as part of #1.
3. Stop nerfing everyone's stealth damage to "fix" one skill doing too much damage from stealth.
I would disagree with point #3. I don't think that Lethal Arrow was doing too much damage 99% of the time. The other 1% happened when the planets aligned just right and the archer got an insane crit.Ifthir_ESO wrote: »No link to video proof.
No examples of what I exaggerate.
Thinly veiled insults implying tears.
Nothing in your post has any substance, next time you decide to post, please don't.
I know that wasn't a reply to me, but here's a video of a skilled NB.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTglToXbkvw
I like the part around 2:50 best, when the two dragonknights try to whip him (vampire nightblade) to death, but he as a very good and skilled player ends up kicking their ass hard to the ground.
Edit: I just noticed that you've posted a reply while I was writing this, and I do!
I have a 5 piece Hunding's Rage set, 2x weapon damage jewlery and 2x Red Mountain pieces that I combine with stamina + health food, stamina mundus stone and the DK igneous weapons buff that I swap to if I'm feeling like a ***. I still think it's way too powerful. Also if you had visited the Thornblade EU thread you would have known I'm a huge arguer for nerfing Impulse too.
I know that you are responding to a single person in the thread with that video, but I think its placement is misleading in this thread. Since this is a topic about the viability of Stamina Bow builds.
No surprise that the player in the video is using sword and board/ Restoration Staff. That lineup is pretty much a given and I don't think many would argue the viability of a NB who runs that. Not taking away from the skill that player has shown.1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »No link to video proof.
No examples of what I exaggerate.
Thinly veiled insults implying tears.
Nothing in your post has any substance, next time you decide to post, please don't.
Just keep burying your head in the sand while screaming, 'IT'S NOT MY FAULT, IT'S MY CLASS!!!!' while other NB are out there dominating. No link to video proof??? Have you read the forums over the past 2 weeks? Your exaggeration was that only four or five casuals with 0 points in health are the ones complaining about bow sneak attacks.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭I know that you are responding to a single person in the thread with that video, but I think its placement is misleading in this thread. Since this is a topic about the viability of Stamina Bow builds.
No surprise that the player in the video is using sword and board/ Restoration Staff. That lineup is pretty much a given and I don't think many would argue the viability of a NB who runs that. Not taking away from the skill that player has shown.
Well, I tried to argue exactly the same earlier in the thread when it completely derailed from the OP when I dared to disagree with the instakill gods and they realized one of my characters are a DK. The DK example they are using is also 1h/shield + destro/resto.That's not the topic of this thread...dwemer_paleologist wrote: »it is the topic, are you trying to avoid the facts?
But as you can see, it didn't work out too well and this is now just yet another DK thread.
__________________________________________________________Ifthir_ESO wrote: »Batswarming and fighting vs a v4 and v9 isn't all that indicative of NB skills but the player clearly is good.
That's exactly the same thing Hova was doing in the DK video used as an example in this thread...Ifthir_ESO wrote: »So you play a DK and you are complaining about bow being OP but not DK abilities? And you agree impulse needed to be nerfed (since day 1) but you feel it was better to prioritize stealth dmg nerf? I am lost, sorry not familiar with you the player.
My whip doesn't kill people in less than one second.Edited by Isbilen on October 23, 2014 7:37PM0 -
Honfold✭✭✭I know that you are responding to a single person in the thread with that video, but I think its placement is misleading in this thread. Since this is a topic about the viability of Stamina Bow builds.
No surprise that the player in the video is using sword and board/ Restoration Staff. That lineup is pretty much a given and I don't think many would argue the viability of a NB who runs that. Not taking away from the skill that player has shown.
Well, I tried to argue exactly the same earlier in the thread when it completely derailed from the OP when I dared to disagree with the instakill gods and they realized one of my characters are a DK. The DK example they are using is also 1h/shield + destro/resto.
My whip doesn't kill people in less than one second.[/quote]
thats what Im saying that sword and board/ Resto and cloth is pretty much the build across the board right now.
Your whip also doesn't have a cast time and does not have a counter (like Scales) that completely negates it or/and your entire melee build.
The claim that NBs can kill players in under a second when ever they would like is just not accurate. It takes a lot of preparation, gear, and mostly luck to kill a target in the first volley. It also takes a lot of negligence or even lag on the part of the target to make a quick kill possible.
People tend to remember the time when something extraordinary happened, like a 2k+ hit from lethal arrow, and tend to ignore or forget the ordinary. You may have been hit with Lethal Arrows for 700-1100 dozens of times in your last play session but just don't recall it.
Edited by Honfold on October 23, 2014 7:52PM1 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Just keep burying your head in the sand while screaming, 'IT'S NOT MY FAULT, IT'S MY CLASS!!!!' while other NB are out there dominating.
1. No one said anything about faults or class. This thread is about stealth damage. I realize reading can be challenging, but try and keep up.
2. What NB is out there "dominating". Curious to see who you list.
3. Next time you decide to post, please don't.0 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The claim that NBs can kill players in under a second when ever they would like is just not accurate.
Oh and never mind that bow isn't a NB skill either
You may have been hit with Lethal Arrows for 700-1100 dozens of times i
Good point. Worse for the people crying about being 1 shot by bow is also that my funnel health hits for 900 on average on a crit. So people moaning about LA are crying about a skill that on crit doubles my normal spell damage. Really?
The reason the thread has NB's upset, despite being about stealth damage, is the reliance the NB class has on stealth. That's it. People can still snipe with their DK just as easily as I can with my NB. I think that part gets lost.Edited by Ifthir_ESO on October 23, 2014 8:16PM0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »Just keep burying your head in the sand while screaming, 'IT'S NOT MY FAULT, IT'S MY CLASS!!!!' while other NB are out there dominating.
1. No one said anything about faults or class. This thread is about stealth damage. I realize reading can be challenging, but try and keep up.
2. What NB is out there "dominating". Curious to see who you list.
3. Next time you decide to post, please don't.
1. You replied to a 'DK is a little overpowered' post with a 'This is our whole beef' implying that you are upset that they didn't nerf DKs.
2. As I said earlier ... go back through the past 2-3 weeks of posts in the PVP section and you will see 5 or so videos of NB dominating.
3. Next time you decide to whine and complain about your class, please don't.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points2 -
Arowe_eso✭✭I posted this in another thread but I'll say it again. Nerfing global stealth damage allows for a nb specific buff to stealth attacks through their passive.
Also, people are seeming to forget impulse and annulment are getting nerfs, and that snipe is getting buffed for every scenario but the sneak attack in that same patch
3 simultaneous stealth snipes can instagib someone. The over talked about 1 person ganking one person with a bow scenario is not why stealth damage is being nerfed.V14 Nightblade DC
V14 Sorc DC2 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭1. You don't get it, that's obvious. The beef is that the stealth nerf inordinately damages NB far more than any other class. Additionally, it is one tiny (unasked for?) PvP fix when we have been demanding tons for months.
2. No, you don't. Anyone can put together a greatest hits video over weeks and pretend like it shows something. Beating 2 guys who sucked and were 5 levels below you doesn't show domination. When I see a NB video like @Lfehova posted last week, then we can start the NB is plenty balanced thread.
3. This isn't a class whine. Its a complaint about a pending nerf inordinately affecting one (already underpowered) class more than others. Worse, the staff prioritized this nerf ahead of stuff like balancing Impulse.
Wasn't sure if you are ESL. Seems like there are some language barriers here.Edited by Ifthir_ESO on October 23, 2014 8:28PM0 -
Honfold✭✭✭I posted this in another thread but I'll say it again. Nerfing global stealth damage allows for a nb specific buff to stealth attacks through their passive.
Also, people are seeming to forget impulse and annulment are getting nerfs, and that snipe is getting buffed for every scenario but the sneak attack in that same patch
3 simultaneous stealth snipes can instagib someone. The over talked about 1 person ganking one person with a bow scenario is not why stealth damage is being nerfed.
3 from the same person? I am not sure if the reduction in cast time is going to be that much.0