How the Champion System is a Complete Overhaul of Game Numbers

Kraven · November 2014

Dominoid wrote: »

Next is the game system needs to get limits. But I thought we just removed soft caps? We did but hard caps still exist and need to. For example armor will cap out at 50% physical mitigation. Hard caps exist in-game now. 50% physical mitigation on the live servers is around 3,000 armor. Anything you put into armor past 3,000 is completely lost.

ZOS has to know for each game number what they want those top numbers to be. Once we know what those top numbers will be, we can then slice that pie - this will become clearer as we continue. Then once we have the limits and slice them up ZOS is going to have change all the numbers for abilities, item sets, enchantments, potions, etc that can modify those numbers.

Let’s hopefully clear things up by looking at the armor “pie” in the CS. Although we are going to focus on armor, there is a separate “pie” for every stat in the game - health, magicka, spell crit, frost resistance, etc. ZOS took this “pie slicing” activity for each stat and each pie is different. The numbers below are not illustrative these are actual numbers as they currently exist but are subject to change.
30% - Buffs (class/weapon skills and passives, potions, food) - They want to promote "active" combat so it gets the biggest chunk.

24% - The Armor itself - Legendary, max level, heavy armor gets the 24%. You cannot get to the 24% without all that is mentioned.

24% - 700 points in the CS passive. You can double the value of the armor itself by full CS investment. If you only got the armor slice to 15%, a 700 CS investment will only double the 15%.

5% - Item set bonuses

5% - Shield

4% - Reinforced armor trait (all pieces give 4% total)

4% - Enchants

2% - Defending weapon trait

2% - Mundas

As opposed to the current system you can now look at armor and see how it is all very neatly sectioned out into all the different traits, enchantments, buffs, etc.

The problem with the Pie is it's rotten at the core. Sure the crust is nice and golden brown maybe it even has a nice aroma that entices you, but the filling is spoiled meat.

So 100% of the pie means you mitigate a hard cap of 50% damage, 30% coming from buffs doesn't matter how many buffs or which ones a sorc using bone shield and lightening form is going to get just as much as a templar using or NB just using Bone shield. There has to be balance after all or once again you're promoting pigeon holed meta builds where only sorcs and DKs can tank. You talk of removing caps and implementing new ones but the ones you propose to implement are worse, MUCH worse than the current system.

Not to mention this forces tanks to run reinforced and completely makes divines absolutely useless as it would have no effect, you're only getting a set amount from mundus after all no more increases so no need for the trait to exist at all. This is forcing every tank to run Lady mundus, with reinforced armor and follow a fine line. Any system that tells you you HAVE to run heavy armor, you HAVE to use sword and board, you HAVE to use reinforced, you HAVE to use Lady, you HAVE the have this armor buff and this passive in this order and tank with this rotation. Any system that promotes that type of game play in ESO is rotten to the core. Might as well make the standard fare MMO we've had since the 90s.

You start requiring players regardless of their role to walk a fine line and build their character in one precise way so they reach that 100% of the pie. Then those players who do walk the line straight down the middle are either going to find the content too easy, unless you cater content to them and then the rest are going to find it too difficult and find that the content itself is forcing you down a path. You can't please everyone, it's impossible, but there are sure ways to *** everyone off.

The champion system HAS to open up options and improve character development not water it down.

Dominoid · November 2014

Kraven wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dominoid wrote: »

Next is the game system needs to get limits. But I thought we just removed soft caps? We did but hard caps still exist and need to. For example armor will cap out at 50% physical mitigation. Hard caps exist in-game now. 50% physical mitigation on the live servers is around 3,000 armor. Anything you put into armor past 3,000 is completely lost.

ZOS has to know for each game number what they want those top numbers to be. Once we know what those top numbers will be, we can then slice that pie - this will become clearer as we continue. Then once we have the limits and slice them up ZOS is going to have change all the numbers for abilities, item sets, enchantments, potions, etc that can modify those numbers.

Let’s hopefully clear things up by looking at the armor “pie” in the CS. Although we are going to focus on armor, there is a separate “pie” for every stat in the game - health, magicka, spell crit, frost resistance, etc. ZOS took this “pie slicing” activity for each stat and each pie is different. The numbers below are not illustrative these are actual numbers as they currently exist but are subject to change.
30% - Buffs (class/weapon skills and passives, potions, food) - They want to promote "active" combat so it gets the biggest chunk.

24% - The Armor itself - Legendary, max level, heavy armor gets the 24%. You cannot get to the 24% without all that is mentioned.

24% - 700 points in the CS passive. You can double the value of the armor itself by full CS investment. If you only got the armor slice to 15%, a 700 CS investment will only double the 15%.

5% - Item set bonuses

5% - Shield

4% - Reinforced armor trait (all pieces give 4% total)

4% - Enchants

2% - Defending weapon trait

2% - Mundas

As opposed to the current system you can now look at armor and see how it is all very neatly sectioned out into all the different traits, enchantments, buffs, etc.

The problem with the Pie is it's rotten at the core. Sure the crust is nice and golden brown maybe it even has a nice aroma that entices you, but the filling is spoiled meat.

So 100% of the pie means you mitigate a hard cap of 50% damage, 30% coming from buffs doesn't matter how many buffs or which ones a sorc using bone shield and lightening form is going to get just as much as a templar using or NB just using Bone shield. There has to be balance after all or once again you're promoting pigeon holed meta builds where only sorcs and DKs can tank. You talk of removing caps and implementing new ones but the ones you propose to implement are worse, MUCH worse than the current system.

Not to mention this forces tanks to run reinforced and completely makes divines absolutely useless as it would have no effect, you're only getting a set amount from mundus after all no more increases so no need for the trait to exist at all. This is forcing every tank to run Lady mundus, with reinforced armor and follow a fine line. Any system that tells you you HAVE to run heavy armor, you HAVE to use sword and board, you HAVE to use reinforced, you HAVE to use Lady, you HAVE the have this armor buff and this passive in this order and tank with this rotation. Any system that promotes that type of game play in ESO is rotten to the core. Might as well make the standard fare MMO we've had since the 90s.

You start requiring players regardless of their role to walk a fine line and build their character in one precise way so they reach that 100% of the pie. Then those players who do walk the line straight down the middle are either going to find the content too easy, unless you cater content to them and then the rest are going to find it too difficult and find that the content itself is forcing you down a path. You can't please everyone, it's impossible, but there are sure ways to *** everyone off.

The champion system HAS to open up options and improve character development not water it down.

Except doing what you describe leaves that tank FULLY open to being destroyed by any type of magical attack! Sure he can get 50% mitigation in physical attacks by going "all out" in physical mitigation as you describe, but at what expense?There's your build diversity.

Also this isn't what "I propose". This is what ZOS is DOING.

Ohioastro · November 2014

It matters a great deal what the consequences of the numbers are. If they're wise, they will design landscape encounters (say, in the current 1-50 range) so that they are tuned to have no champion points at all. Encounters in the VR1-10 zones today (silver / gold) would be designed around 0 - 100 or so champion points (assuming that their target is 10 hours/zone and 1 hour/champion point.) The only encounters that would need the "full" armor benefit would be at endgame. e.g. something like trials.

So, in the PvE world, you have a power curve and it will be fine if they tune the encounters to be doable at the level you're at when you see them. I expect little change 1-50, and a definite shakedown period while they tune dungeons, landscape, etc. mobs to replicate something like the current challenge levels for veteran rank characters.

In terms of PvP, the big question is how much they level out the playing field. This is one area where I hope that they are aggressive; people should be able to effectively PvP without hundreds of hours invested in the champion system. I'd prefer big handicaps or low ceilings for PvP because you want player skill, not time investment, to be the determinant there. And your game will die if new players can't be effective.

Winnower · November 2014

I'm glad that you're able to contradict me because I hated what I was told was going to be the way it was implemented. I'm crossing my fingers in hopes that I remain wrong. Thank you.

Nihil · November 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

show previous quotes

Winnower wrote: »

It is my understanding that CS points will come from getting 1 million xp from any source of the characters on your account. Then you get 1 CS point to give to 1 Character. You don't get a CS point for all 8 characters (even if they're all 50+).

I'm not sure where you are obtaining your information; but I would recommend you find a new source as none of that is right.

Supposedly the average player will earn one new champion point in about of hour of gameplay. That would put champion points somewhere between 10K-50K worth of XP. Obviously that is much less than what you claim.

Also, the points are shared across all characters on an account. All of your characters benefit whenever one of them earns a champion point.

I welcome anybody from ZOS to correct my statements here.

actually I think it would put it at 60k -85k, If I remember they say they expect a VR lvl to take 12 - 15 hours for the average player (down from 18 -20 for the average player). Of course subject to change obviously.

MissBizz · November 2014

Straight up opinion here, some made up theory and thoughts. Do not confuse this or attempt to take as fact.

Scenario#1
So if I earn a championship point on one character (my main/favorite let's say (healer)) I would suddenly get a skill point to use on each of my alts (tank, dps, different dps). So realistically, I can play ONE character yet advance all of my characters?

Plan if this happens to be true:
Get my tank and other DPs up to level 50 by the time this hits. Continue to play my main forever, and only need to play my alts when the mood strikes , to lead a guild event or help a different faction player. Why? Because unless one of those reasons arise, I have no reason to play the others. None. I can continue working on my favorite toon, and without ever touching a toon after 50, can end up with an amazing tank/DPs etc.?

Weird. I'm not even sure how I feel about this. That would be awesome, as I am definitely not the quickly advancing type... But really? You're going to give me an awesome tank and dps even though I put no work/effort into them? That's just weird.

Scenario#2
Although if I earn a champion point on my healer... And can spend it on any character (but only one, since that's all I earned) I can make the decision, yet am not getting "free cs points" like the previous statement. I can choose to make one super amazing healer, or a mediocre healer/tank/DPs/other DPs.

I like scenario one better, but to me... Scenario 2 makes more sense. To be honest.. Scenario 3 seems to be the most logical.. But it isn't an option (you know, where you earn a cs point on a character and must spend it on that character. Therefore giving you a reason to play those other toons.)

Does anyone see scenario one or two like me? (I'm not asking which one you believe is going to happen. Just if that scenario was the way it was implemented, would you view it that way too).

Sorry for any typo's , grammatical mistakes, and odd capitalization. My tablet seems to be using a different dictionary and grammar book than the rest of us do, and I'm tired of fighting it.

Nihil · November 2014

MissBizz wrote: »

Straight up opinion here, some made up theory and thoughts. Do not confuse this or attempt to take as fact.

Scenario#1
So if I earn a championship point on one character (my main/favorite let's say (healer)) I would suddenly get a skill point to use on each of my alts (tank, dps, different dps). So realistically, I can play ONE character yet advance all of my characters?

Plan if this happens to be true:
Get my tank and other DPs up to level 50 by the time this hits. Continue to play my main forever, and only need to play my alts when the mood strikes , to lead a guild event or help a different faction player. Why? Because unless one of those reasons arise, I have no reason to play the others. None. I can continue working on my favorite toon, and without ever touching a toon after 50, can end up with an amazing tank/DPs etc.?

Weird. I'm not even sure how I feel about this. That would be awesome, as I am definitely not the quickly advancing type... But really? You're going to give me an awesome tank and dps even though I put no work/effort into them? That's just weird.

Scenario#2
Although if I earn a champion point on my healer... And can spend it on any character (but only one, since that's all I earned) I can make the decision, yet am not getting "free cs points" like the previous statement. I can choose to make one super amazing healer, or a mediocre healer/tank/DPs/other DPs.

I like scenario one better, but to me... Scenario 2 makes more sense. To be honest.. Scenario 3 seems to be the most logical.. But it isn't an option (you know, where you earn a cs point on a character and must spend it on that character. Therefore giving you a reason to play those other toons.)

Does anyone see scenario one or two like me? (I'm not asking which one you believe is going to happen. Just if that scenario was the way it was implemented, would you view it that way too).

Sorry for any typo's , grammatical mistakes, and odd capitalization. My tablet seems to be using a different dictionary and grammar book than the rest of us do, and I'm tired of fighting it.

Your scenario 1 is how they said it was going to be. While for a while you will still have to level your alts to be competitive ( as the champion system and veteran ranks will be existing together for a while) you will be stronger then a normal character of your level (they have said they haven't fully decided how they are getting rid of veteran ranks so full details won't be available on that for a while). What your scenario 1 is truly doing, is not punishing you for playing an alt. You can change your mind part way through and decide to level another character for a while, and not feel like you are falling behind because you didn't want to play your healer. If they did it any other way, you would probably see people abandoning alts as they would see it being a waist of time to level anyone other then their main as there would be an increasing gap (although diminishing the farther into the champion system you get) between them.

AdeusObsidiusCorvus · November 2014

My understanding is that your alts wont get the champion points from your main unless your alts are also level 50? Those champion points earned by a main will be held in reserve until your alt hits 50 when those champion points earned by your main will become available to be used by the alt.

Nihil · November 2014

From the guild summit audio they said that all of your characters will get the champion points as long as you have at least one VR character. So unless they decided to change that (balancing issues?) you should get it to spend on the alts even before they hit lvl 50.

zaria · November 2014

MissBizz wrote: »

Straight up opinion here, some made up theory and thoughts. Do not confuse this or attempt to take as fact.

Scenario#1
So if I earn a championship point on one character (my main/favorite let's say (healer)) I would suddenly get a skill point to use on each of my alts (tank, dps, different dps). So realistically, I can play ONE character yet advance all of my characters?

Plan if this happens to be true:
Get my tank and other DPs up to level 50 by the time this hits. Continue to play my main forever, and only need to play my alts when the mood strikes , to lead a guild event or help a different faction player. Why? Because unless one of those reasons arise, I have no reason to play the others. None. I can continue working on my favorite toon, and without ever touching a toon after 50, can end up with an amazing tank/DPs etc.?

Weird. I'm not even sure how I feel about this. That would be awesome, as I am definitely not the quickly advancing type... But really? You're going to give me an awesome tank and dps even though I put no work/effort into them? That's just weird.

Scenario#2
Although if I earn a champion point on my healer... And can spend it on any character (but only one, since that's all I earned) I can make the decision, yet am not getting "free cs points" like the previous statement. I can choose to make one super amazing healer, or a mediocre healer/tank/DPs/other DPs.

I like scenario one better, but to me... Scenario 2 makes more sense. To be honest.. Scenario 3 seems to be the most logical.. But it isn't an option (you know, where you earn a cs point on a character and must spend it on that character. Therefore giving you a reason to play those other toons.)

Does anyone see scenario one or two like me? (I'm not asking which one you believe is going to happen. Just if that scenario was the way it was implemented, would you view it that way too).

Sorry for any typo's , grammatical mistakes, and odd capitalization. My tablet seems to be using a different dictionary and grammar book than the rest of us do, and I'm tired of fighting it.

Scenario 3 has an downside works like skills, veteran points and xp today.
Downside is that its take a long time to get an new alt up to endgame.
Scenario 2 works like gold or loot, you can trade it to other characters.
If you have one character deep into endgame you can rater spend the points on an alt who will have more benefit of it.
Scenario 1 will make any character who is level 50 instant powerful, you can do raids without finishing the main quest, I was almost VR2 then finishing it.
You will still need sky-shards for skills.

How will dungeons and other content be balanced?
How about gear? Will it be tied to champion points levels?

zaria · November 2014

Nihil wrote: »

From the guild summit audio they said that all of your characters will get the champion points as long as you have at least one VR character. So unless they decided to change that (balancing issues?) you should get it to spend on the alts even before they hit lvl 50.

Might be that you earn it but don't get to spend it before reaching 50.
However it indicates that leveling an alt up to 50 gives champion points, this can even be your first character so you get point to spend then reaching 50.

Nihil · November 2014

zaria wrote: »

show previous quotes

Nihil wrote: »

From the guild summit audio they said that all of your characters will get the champion points as long as you have at least one VR character. So unless they decided to change that (balancing issues?) you should get it to spend on the alts even before they hit lvl 50.

Might be that you earn it but don't get to spend it before reaching 50.
However it indicates that leveling an alt up to 50 gives champion points, this can even be your first character so you get point to spend then reaching 50.

They said in the audio for the guild summit that only VR characters will earn XP towards champion points, but the champion system will unlock once you have one character at VR levels (along with enlightenment exp, which helps VR characters gain champion points faster for a short while, think rested exp). They said that all your characters (including non VR characters) can spend these VR points and that each character will get the same amount of VR points to spend, and can spend it how ever you want on that specific character ( moving between each major constellation for each champion point, warrior -> rouge -> Mage).

The original post of this thread has a link to the audio on youtube for the guild summit. At about the 43 minute mark she talks about spending points on non veteran characters if you want to verify what I said.

lol just noticed on the first page dominoid already said what I did...

MissBizz · November 2014

Nihil wrote: »

Your scenario 1 is how they said it was going to be. While for a while you will still have to level your alts to be competitive ( as the champion system and veteran ranks will be existing together for a while) you will be stronger then a normal character of your level (they have said they haven't fully decided how they are getting rid of veteran ranks so full details won't be available on that for a while). What your scenario 1 is truly doing, is not punishing you for playing an alt. You can change your mind part way through and decide to level another character for a while, and not feel like you are falling behind because you didn't want to play your healer. If they did it any other way, you would probably see people abandoning alts as they would see it being a waist of time to level anyone other then their main as there would be an increasing gap (although diminishing the farther into the champion system you get) between them.

That is a good point with the not punishing for playing an alt, I really never thought of it that way. I just feel I'll be getting something for nothing. So hey, if this is how it ends up being.. Cool I guess!

Dominoid · November 2014

MissBizz wrote: »

show previous quotes

Nihil wrote: »

Your scenario 1 is how they said it was going to be. While for a while you will still have to level your alts to be competitive ( as the champion system and veteran ranks will be existing together for a while) you will be stronger then a normal character of your level (they have said they haven't fully decided how they are getting rid of veteran ranks so full details won't be available on that for a while). What your scenario 1 is truly doing, is not punishing you for playing an alt. You can change your mind part way through and decide to level another character for a while, and not feel like you are falling behind because you didn't want to play your healer. If they did it any other way, you would probably see people abandoning alts as they would see it being a waist of time to level anyone other then their main as there would be an increasing gap (although diminishing the farther into the champion system you get) between them.

That is a good point with the not punishing for playing an alt, I really never thought of it that way. I just feel I'll be getting something for nothing. So hey, if this is how it ends up being.. Cool I guess!

Yes. It's totally about not punishing, if not promoting, the creation and playing of alts.

Kraven · November 2014

I have a V1 DK, it has been sitting at V1 since I heard of the champion system and their plans. Why? Because all of the main zone quests for silver and gold give excellent xp, so when champion does go live I'll simply earn those champ points on both of my V+ alts then have them to spend on my main who has finished almost every quest line.

In fact had they awarded undaunted points retroactively like they should have I would only be using my main for DSA, CoA and Trials. As it stands I have no, or very very few dungeon achievements left to get on my main so grinding Undaunted up is a pain and a whole other subject. IMO alts will actually be more beneficial as it's much easier to gain the required xp knocking out a few big solo quests than grinding.

Sublime · November 2014

@Kraven this is a very nice idea, but as they stated at the guild summit, they are able to track the exp a character has earned until the tim when the CS kicks in, even those beyond V14.

I.e. all earned Veteran exerience earned all across your account throughout your whole game time will be added up and used to calculate the amount of Champion Points you will get.

What does this mean?
That means you will in get exactly the same amount of Champion Points, no matter whether you do the quests now or after the release of the CS.
Additionally it doesn't matter on which character you earn the veteran experience points.
The only thing that will not be converted into Champion Points is experience earned at the Levels 1-49.

-

Something completely different that has not yet recieved a lot of recognition in this thread and seems rather important to me is "Enlightenment"

What is the heck is that? Enlightenment reduces the time needed to get the next Champion Point and is earned while not earning experience with a Level 50 character.

What does it exactly do? Enlightenment grants you a boost to your next Champion Point. It varies from a little percentage of a Champion Point to a complete one [subject to change (ofc)], depending on when you last gained experience with a Level 50 character.

I.e. if you have a your Enlightenment charged up to 50%, you will, either Need a reduced amount of time for the next 50% of the Champion Point you are currently working on, or you will recieve the full 50% as soon as you gain experience with a Level 50 character.
I do not know which of the two is true since ZOS said: "It will give you a boost towards your next Champion Point." and this Statement can basically be interpreted in the two ways stated above.

How can I get it? Enlightenment automatically charges up whenever you are not gaining Champion Points. Whether your current character is Level 50 or not does not matter.

I.e. you will get Enlightenment whenever you play one of your non-Level 50 characters, or play your Level 50 character but are not gaining any experience (examples: crafting, roleplaying, harvesting nodes, etc.).
You can also get Enlightenment by being offline, which will however be not as effective as gaining experience on your Level 50 character. I'm however not sure how, being offline compares to being online but not getting experience on a Level 50 character.

Why are they going to implement Enlightenment?

This system makes it easier for less active or less grinding oriented players to keep pace with progressive players in terms of character strength. The less competitive players will still have to take some action to keep up but it is as though as without Enlightenment. On the contrary progressive players will still be rewarded for their efforts, but the player gap will still be controlable.

Be sure to check out @Dominoid‌'s post for some in depth Information:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/134810/champion-system-enlightenment-what-is-it-and-how-will-it-work#latest

-

@MissBizz‌ for me Scenario#1 is more or less and old dream of mine. This is because I'm a bit of a moody player in regards of classes and skills. My playstyle is always more or less the same but being able to progress all characters at once while actually only playing one is huge for me.

Yes it might feel a bit odd since your other alts will suddenly be much stronger if you haven't played them or a while but this is only in terms of raw statistics. For me the true challange of a game is not to be able to play each class, but to be able to play them well, while still having my own style.

And if we consider PvP, there is a whole new factor: by playing other classes you get to know the mechanics of each of them. This will make your next Encounter with a certain class much easier. And all this thanks to the Champion System.

Seriously, I'm hyped like a little kid which is looking forward to christmas. And sorry for the amount of text.

Dominoid · November 2014

Sublime wrote: »

@Kraven this is a very nice idea, but as they stated at the guild summit, they are able to track the exp a character has earned until the tim when the CS kicks in, even those beyond V14.

I.e. all earned Veteran exerience earned all across your account throughout your whole game time will be added up and used to calculate the amount of Champion Points you will get.

What does this mean?
That means you will in get exactly the same amount of Champion Points, no matter whether you do the quests now or after the release of the CS.
Additionally it doesn't matter on which character you earn the veteran experience points.
The only thing that will not be converted into Champion Points is experience earned at the Levels 1-49.

-

Something completely different that has not yet recieved a lot of recognition in this thread and seems rather important to me is "Enlightenment"

What is the heck is that? Enlightenment reduces the time needed to get the next Champion Point and is earned while not earning experience with a Level 50 character.

What does it exactly do? Enlightenment grants you a boost to your next Champion Point. It varies from a little percentage of a Champion Point to a complete one [subject to change (ofc)], depending on when you last gained experience with a Level 50 character.

I.e. if you have a your Enlightenment charged up to 50%, you will, either Need a reduced amount of time for the next 50% of the Champion Point you are currently working on, or you will recieve the full 50% as soon as you gain experience with a Level 50 character.
I do not know which of the two is true since ZOS said: "It will give you a boost towards your next Champion Point." and this Statement can basically be interpreted in the two ways stated above.

How can I get it? Enlightenment automatically charges up whenever you are not gaining Champion Points. Whether your current character is Level 50 or not does not matter.

I.e. you will get Enlightenment whenever you play one of your non-Level 50 characters, or play your Level 50 character but are not gaining any experience (examples: crafting, roleplaying, harvesting nodes, etc.).
You can also get Enlightenment by being offline, which will however be not as effective as gaining experience on your Level 50 character. I'm however not sure how, being offline compares to being online but not getting experience on a Level 50 character.

Why are they going to implement Enlightenment?

This system makes it easier for less active or less grinding oriented players to keep pace with progressive players in terms of character strength. The less competitive players will still have to take some action to keep up but it is as though as without Enlightenment. On the contrary progressive players will still be rewarded for their efforts, but the player gap will still be controlable.

-

@MissBizz‌ for me Scenario#1 is more or less and old dream of mine. This is because I'm a bit of a moody player in regards of classes and skills. My playstyle is always more or less the same but being able to progress all characters at once while actually only playing one is huge for me.

Yes it might feel a bit odd since your other alts will suddenly be much stronger if you haven't played them or a while but this is only in terms of raw statistics. For me the true challange of a game is not to be able to play each class, but to be able to play them well, while still having my own style.

And if we consider PvP, there is a whole new factor: by playing other classes you get to know the mechanics of each of them. This will make your next Encounter with a certain class much easier. And all this thanks to the Champion System.

Seriously, I'm hyped like a little kid which is looking forward to christmas. And sorry for the amount of text.

Great post. Here's my month old enlightenment post that got no love. Lol

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/134810/champion-system-enlightenment-what-is-it-and-how-will-it-work#latest

wolfydog · November 2014

Anyone else just like play the game and not really worry about this sort of stuff? I just kinda play and what happens on patch day happens.

Sublime · November 2014

Thanks for the remark @Dominoid‌, and I'm sorry that your post did not get the Attention it should have, since it's much more informative than mine and also contains more Information.I think most people are not yet aware of the Problem that Enlightenment will solve so they don't really care yet.

wolfydog wrote: »

Anyone else just like play the game and not really worry about this sort of stuff? I just kinda play and what happens on patch day happens.

This is one of the big points for Zenimax. They want you to be able to play their game without having to pay too much attention on actual numbers. Thanks to the new pie System this will be the case since the intuitive trade-offs you are going to make will actually be represented in your characters statistics.

On the other side those who like to minmax/theorycraft will still have the option to do so. In the end the game will be playable no matter if you are casual, hardcore or something in between, while everybody gets rewarded corresponding to the amount of effort they put in. And all this without creating a large player gap.

Rune_Relic · November 2014

AdeusObsidiusCorvus wrote: »

My understanding is that your alts wont get the champion points from your main unless your alts are also level 50? Those champion points earned by a main will be held in reserve until your alt hits 50 when those champion points earned by your main will become available to be used by the alt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcIaOzyOUL0
43:20
Once champion system is unlocked with a 50+ character..... 50 points can be spent on your level 50 "or your level 32 character"

Emeliana · November 2014

All the numbers I read in this thread gives me a headache. Unless I've totally misunderstood the whole concept, the CS will conform ESO to the Holy Trinity as seen in many other mmo's. Hope I'm wrong there.

What hasn't been declared is what will happen to levels of weapons, armor, food/ingredients, potions/alchemy solvents, crafting materials, runes, glyphs, trinkets etc, and also mob and map-levels.

At present they are all basen on levels 1-50 and Veteran 1-14.

Since I'm mainly a crafter in this game my bank and the inventories of my two crafting-chars are pretty loaded with mats/items. So.... everything will stop at level 50 and the materials/items we've so far found in Vet-areas will cease to exist?? Geez the hours I've spent collecting those things...

I'd be greatful if someone can explain this briefly.

Dominoid · November 2014

Emeliana wrote: »

All the numbers I read in this thread gives me a headache. Unless I've totally misunderstood the whole concept, the CS will conform ESO to the Holy Trinity as seen in many other mmo's. Hope I'm wrong there.

What hasn't been declared is what will happen to levels of weapons, armor, food/ingredients, potions/alchemy solvents, crafting materials, runes, glyphs, trinkets etc, and also mob and map-levels.

At present they are all basen on levels 1-50 and Veteran 1-14.

Since I'm mainly a crafter in this game my bank and the inventories of my two crafting-chars are pretty loaded with mats/items. So.... everything will stop at level 50 and the materials/items we've so far found in Vet-areas will cease to exist?? Geez the hours I've spent collecting those things...

I'd be greatful if someone can explain this briefly.

You can still play any class as any roll and while you'll be viable as a jack of all trades you won't be optimal (min/maxers).

They are exploring several options for getting rid of veteran ranks, but haven't said much more. Although all VR items will be reverted to level 50 items, the strength of the item will still be dependent on what it's made of so your stockpile will still be valuable. Exactly how that works is to be determined.

Rune_Relic · November 2014

Was there any more details on how much attribute points in particular would effect the pies ?

Iduyenn · November 2014

Hmm, so with 3 vet 14 twinks i can give my main a solid Cp headstart?

But i am a Templar and Need to Switch from Heal to tank. I will Need Double the time to have the effectivness parity for both roles on one charakter.

Sublime · November 2014

Iduyenn wrote: »

Hmm, so with 3 vet 14 twinks i can give my main a solid Cp headstart?

But i am a Templar and Need to Switch from Heal to tank. I will Need Double the time to have the effectivness parity for both roles on one charakter.

1. The more V14 chars you have the more CPS you will get when the CS is launched, so yes. But you will get the same amount of CPS if you play one V14 for the entire time until launch instead of leveling three V14 alts, because ZOS will include the exp earned past V14 into the calculation of how many CSP each account gets.

2. Yes if you want to spec for two different roles it will take you twice as long, except if ZOS enables you to have different sets of CPS expenditures between which you would be able to Switch, similar to gear. But I doubt that.

Hybris6 · November 2014

My guess: how to keep players occupied:
Today req VR (1-14) somewhere around 46M (very very rough approx)
Tomorrow req (didnt i read somewhere it was like 700 points in 3 different area - 2100 points and 100/k exp per point -> 210M

I might be totally wrong though :O

Iduyenn · November 2014

Sublime wrote: »

1. The more V14 chars you have the more CPS you will get, so yes. But you will get the same amount of CPS if you Play one V14 for the entire time instead of leveling three V14 alts, because ZOS will include the exp earned past V14.

2. Yes if you want to spec for two different roles it will take you twice as long, except if ZOS enables you to have different sets of CPS expenditures between which you would be able to Switch, similar to gear. But I doubt that.

Yea, but i guess if you grinded your alts, that is worth more xp, than doing one or two quests a day with your main in the same time.

The Problem is, that Min-Maxers are going for 700 CP straight.
So you can say, that even with other hardcaps etc, you will get certain advantages, if you grind(after the implementation of CP) your ass away.

And with several characters on Vet 14 you have some more advantages: For example every time you have 100% Inspiration, you could do a CP with half the time.

Sublime · November 2014

Iduyenn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sublime wrote: »

1. The more V14 chars you have the more CPS you will get, so yes. But you will get the same amount of CPS if you Play one V14 for the entire time instead of leveling three V14 alts, because ZOS will include the exp earned past V14.

2. Yes if you want to spec for two different roles it will take you twice as long, except if ZOS enables you to have different sets of CPS expenditures between which you would be able to Switch, similar to gear. But I doubt that.

Yea, but i guess if you grinded your alts, that is worth more xp, than doing one or two quests a day with your main in the same time.

The Problem is, that Min-Maxers are going for 700 CP straight.
So you can say, that even with other hardcaps etc, you will get certain advantages, if you grind(after the implementation of CP) your ass away.

And with several characters on Vet 14 you have some more advantages: For example every time you have 100% Inspiration, you could do a CP with half the time.

I basically agree with you on the first two Points but I have to say that it will take a really long time to get all CSP (far longer than it takes to get AvA rank 50). Second each additional point spent into the same passive will yield a diminising return so that the imbalance will not be as high, but grinders will still have an edge as you said.

For the third point I don't really get what you are trying to say. What is this Inspiration you are talking about? Once a CSP is gained all Enlightenment on the whole account will be lost (if that is what you are refering to). Please correct me if I misunderstood.

Leeric · November 2014

Sticks and skirts have been heavily nerfed making this whole thread pointless please close

Sublime · November 2014

Leeric wrote: »

Sticks and skirts have been heavily nerfed making this whole thread pointless please close

You know that this thread is not about stick/skirt? If not, please read the opening post again.