How to kill a dragon knight

Janna

Or you could just shield stack over and over again until they give up, or if you are a sorcerer you could troll them by wasting their time via shield stacking then just streak away when you get bored.

pmn100b16_ESO

Muizer wrote: »

astro74 wrote: »

I have never seen another class singlehanded take on a group of ten-twelve people unless they wanted to suicide, just the thing that he took on such a big group says something about the class. He was good I give him that and he must have been dressed in yellow because my SD is 129 unbuffed and my WD is a bit over the softcap when using surge and I was spamming crushing shock and crystalshard on proc on him while he was killing off my friends and his health were between 70-100% for god know how long. I did kill him in the end but then he already killed half our group.

DK abilities by themselves don't do much dps. What was he using to deal damage?

DK dps is maybe just about 2nd to NB. They have very good dps considering their survivability.

onlinegamer1

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Glass cannon NB's are troll builds made to 1-3 shot unsuspecting players in one sided battles.

When these builds get caught out in the open 1v1 they get destroyed.

I can open-engage a DK on my NB and beat them every time.

So can every class. All you need is 1 skill on your bar - Cleanse.

Tabbycat

astro74 wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

spoken like a DK!

Hahahhaha DK is the only class I don't play... I find it terribly boring.

Oo is it a playable class... I thought it was some sort of raidboss

I have heard that Dunmer DK Vampire Emperors are. Unfortunately they don't drop anything good.

Laggus

Problem us you need to stick around and fight rather than bolt escape half way across the map. Good Sorcerers destroy DKs and out attrition them. NBs have murdered my DK from ambush in 3 moves. Theres ways and means listed on this thread. Theres only a handfull of really good DKs, im not one of them but those guys are equally as good with other classes. They know the strenghts and weaknesses well.

Gillysan

Laggus wrote: »

Problem us you need to stick around and fight rather than bolt escape half way across the map. Good Sorcerers destroy DKs and out attrition them. NBs have murdered my DK from ambush in 3 moves. Theres ways and means listed on this thread. Theres only a handfull of really good DKs, im not one of them but those guys are equally as good with other classes. They know the strenghts and weaknesses well.

Spot on, it's called study your enemies ways.

CapuchinSeven

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Glass cannon NB's are troll builds made to 1-3 shot unsuspecting players in one sided battles.

When these builds get caught out in the open 1v1 they get destroyed.

Keep telling yourself that, good luck killing me 1v1 in the open when I can weapon swap to my resto staff and Crippling Grasp, Agony and Shade you until I decide I'm tired playing and either go hide again with full health thanks to heals because you can't get to me or kill you because I can generate full ultimate in seconds thanks to Cripple and Agony.

I only die to two things, zergs or other stealth attacks.

Damage bar and a control/minor heal bar is all a decent Nightblade needs to be useful solo and in a group.

Nightblades are bugged not underpowered.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

On Chillrend there is an EP DK named Patrick and he must know how Conner McCloud must feel.


Everyone goes around him and try to ignore him while attacking all his team mates instead.

He is fairly harmless if he attacks but if anyone attack him they die in seconds from reflections. So the key is simply to ignore him.

Now what is my point with all this? You see on Chillrend people more or less know who is who by now so the build don't work that well. But on Thorn he could easily obliverate groups that haven't learned to ignore DKs.

The key to DKs is simply that you ignore them. If they want to do offensive damage they cannot have the insane surviveability.

ThisOnePosts

As someone who has all classes leveled up, I can say with confidence that they all have pros and cons. The DK has more "tankish" abilities, the Sorc more ranged/aoe, Templar has healing and some nice buffs, NBs have crazy single target and can stealth attack like no other.

As you notice some people posting as a NB they can get the jump on other classes. NB is not meant head for head. Sure, if built properly they can go toe to toe with any, but a NB is most powerful when using stealth to its advantage.

They all have their pros and cons. The only thing is that NBs have had things not working properly, at all, or inconsistently for quite a long time. When one problem is "fixed" it pops up again or something new in its place. However there are workarounds so lets save that for another topic. But I do not think a DK is OP. A DK is built how it should be and is the best Tanking class in the game. The NB is a stealth/rogue class with the best single target damage in the game. Sorc has the best AOE damage in the game plus lots of range at their disposal, and Templars are the stars of healing with some really nice debuffs to cast on enemy players.

You can re-arrange abilities and sets in order to play ANY role and all have DPS built into it, however it's no secret that they all shine in a particular area.

With that said, I thought the original thread post is hysterical, although if they are being serious then really they'd need to L2P x 100.

Jacques Berge

Agreed^^^

okraus

First of all we are talking about PvP here! PvP guys! So stop mixing PvE issues like "bla bla is the best tank" and "blu blu has the best AoE" with stuff that is really relevant for PvP!
Second leveling a class does not make you an expert about this class and how effective this class will do in PvP! Only doing PvP makes you an expert! Doing a lot PvP that means. Trying out different builds, fine-tuning your playstyle, having lots of 1v1 situations or low-scale fighting situations makes you an expert.
Running with a big zerg and stomping over a few enemies does not tell you anything about the effecttiveness of your class in pvp.
Oh well... i have to admit that leveling in pvp is an exception - in that case leveling your character did actually make you an expert for pvp issues of this class. But all People i know who tried that gave up at one point and prefered a hircine grind or anyhing similar.

I am doing PvP with my sorc for quiet some time now. I enjoy the whole range PvP offers me in this. Sometimes i follow the main zerg to have some brainless Action often at the flanks of the main battly field or at the supply lines. I also do a lot of solo PvP or in small groups with 1-2 friends of mine. Ganking the gankers is what gives me the moste joy in this case.
I would say that with time i became a very good sorc and i am able to anticipate the different pvp situations you can face.
I can burst a lot of damage- killing very often very fast with it. I manage NB ambushes or sniping attacks. Of course i often use the flee capacities my class offers me only to turn back in the tide of battle in an always ongoing hit & run tactic.
At the moment there are only 2 enemies i really fear in pvp. These are good bowmen who can kill you mega-fast if you are not top alert all the time and then... well... myself.
If i do not watch out and have a close look where and how i put out my damage i often get myself in trouble (and sometimes killed) because of my own reflected spells. Dodging your own shards is really annoying.
Reflected spells has become the biggest problem in the recent past for me. And there are DKs who really mastered this so you cannot bring them in any greater Trouble. Besides this great defense capabilities (nearly being invulnerable) they still can deal some moderate damage.
I must admit that i got a little bit clueless what to do with those. What is actually not reflected? Channeling seems to work... in the end i stopped using any spells at all and only used the heavy attack from my lightning staff. That at least got not reflected. One time i had my ice staff still equipped from some PvE action before going to cyrodiil - not funny! Light and heavy attacks from the ice staff got reflected too... this sucks!
Well i could of course just leave the DK alone and move on but there must be a key to break through this defense. Which spells actually go through deflect?

astro74

I dont know any spells that go through deflect. All reflective skills are insanely OP. I remember in AO the soldier had a reflect shield.. could kill anything by just popping the shield

Kvasir Silverpaw

astro74 wrote: »

For this you need a well balanced group.
4 tanks with shield and heavy armour. They need to position around the DK. Each tank need 2 dedicated healers each that stand almost in maximum range from the tanks. Use 2 or 3 NB for DPS and then 5 archers and 4 mages that stand on maximum range. Mages need to rotate dps and regen (for them selves and the archers). Use a *** of pots, mana health, spelldamage.. anything you can think of.

After 3 or 4 minutes when the DK health moves under 30% everyone needs to start interrupt the DK to disrupt healing. For the execute phase keep interrupting with the tanks, sorcerers needs to set up ballistas and catapults while NB go Full dps.

If the gods favor you you might bring him down otherwise one of you need to sneak away and set up a forward camp because it will be a full whipe.

You can also try to coordinate with some other raidgroups and if you are 2-3 groups victory is easy. Have one group go full dps as a slight distraction while the other group bombard the DK with ballistas and trebuchets. Third group interrupt and save mana for the execute phase.

Today we were a small group of 12 that got charged by a dk. We were very lucky because after killing 5 of us he must have lost connection so we could finally bring him down.

new title: How to Complain Because I Cant Play my Class

Minsc

astro74 wrote: »

.....
Learn to play? Lightweaving and crushing shock is one of the best DPS a sorc can do, if he survives for 2-3 minutes when attacked like that it´s a tad...overpowered.

Hmm.... That sentence explains a lot

Tapio75

Odd... Nightblade stabbed me yesterday which resulted in death.. Must be cheting

Kvasir Silverpaw

you mean... Nightblade(s)

Wing

Minsc wrote: »

astro74 wrote: »

.....
Learn to play? Lightweaving and crushing shock is one of the best DPS a sorc can do, if he survives for 2-3 minutes when attacked like that it´s a tad...overpowered.

Hmm.... That sentence explains a lot

lol, yup.

just because something is really good in one situation, does not mean its the best in all situations. this does look like a clear cut case of learn to play. and I don't mean that in a degrading sense.

Muizer

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

DK dps is maybe just about 2nd to NB. They have very good dps considering their survivability.

They give survivability, yes, but the DPS to wipe out half a group of 12 really has to come from somewhere else. I mean, what'd you suggest did it? Flame lash lol?

Wreuntzylla

Prepare for a DK nerf. MMOs want money, most players want to spam 1-2 buttons, it takes 3 buttons to kill a DK.

Bramir

$10 cyber bucks says the DK in question was also a vampire...and the problematic ultimate is getting nerfed big time with the next update.

DKs aren't the problem...vampire DKs are the problem and (hopefully) won't be much longer.

apostate9

okraus wrote: »

First of all we are talking about PvP here! PvP guys! So stop mixing PvE issues like "bla bla is the best tank" and "blu blu has the best AoE" with stuff that is really relevant for PvP!

Stopped reading here. If you don't think DPS and tanking is relevant in PVP you need to reassess some things. DKs are tankish in PVP too...they're tanking you. You just haven't figured that out yet.

ZeroTheCat

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Honestly they just nee to buff up the other classes so the dk is no longer zeni's master race. but then again the skellies on ad would be screwed then!

Well, in all fairness, bat swarm is partly to blame here...

ExiledKhallisi

Spottswoode wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Glass cannon NB's are troll builds made to 1-3 shot unsuspecting players in one sided battles.

If you are fighting in a fair fight, you're not fighting correctly. Learn from Genghis Khan. You fight to kill, not get mad and walk away. (Though if you are married and hope to stay that way, you will do the latter frequently.) Even in simulated war, it's a stupid idea to confront an enemy with fair odds.

That being said....

apostate9 wrote: »

Something does need to be done. You need to l2p.

Jacques Berge wrote: »

WTF!!! Use negate, vamp feed, NB fear, nova, DW through Stam... You and your friends getting put off guard by a good player is YOUR problem. These class aren't this ridiculous. You and your friends just got beat by a much better player.

Dk's have the deck overwhelmingly stacked in their favor. It's a fact. They can heal themselves with any ultimate, and immediately follow up with another heal and heavy single damage if they manage to land a stun or immobilize you. The only real weakness in the class skills is ranged combat and they laugh at that with Obsidian Shield and Reflective Scales. Knocking them down is practically the only way to beat them horrifically, and they'll just use Green Dragon Blood for that. Unless you approach them at least 3 to 1 at range, you're at a serious disadvantage. Doesn't mean it's impossible, but they very clearly have the odds in their favor.

This isnt real life.

ExiledKhallisi

1.5 will bring the end to DK's... Werewolves on PTS 1.5.1 have instant bleed DOT stacks on top of their light attacks that refreshes and applies isntantly (first tick) with each attack. Currently critting for me at 300-500 bleed ticks. On top of spammable fear, another dot, and a huge heal.

Bleeds cannot be blocked.

And good luck with talons spam against a target that can replenish half its 3000 stamina back with one heavy attack. 1.5 is going to be the best patch ever.

Spottswoode

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

This isnt real life.

Grasping for straws, are we? It's still a stupid idea. Not using an advantage to gain the upper hand puts you at a less than optimal position. If you are trying to win, this is stupid. Especially if you are fully aware of the advantage.
We can bring "player honor" or "rules of fair play" into account, but they are meaningless and a detraction if your primary goal is to win above all else.

astro74 wrote: »

I dont know any spells that go through deflect. All reflective skills are insanely OP. I remember in AO the soldier had a reflect shield.. could kill anything by just popping the shield

I actually made a list for that, for DoT's anyway. Any attacks that have a projectile (meaning a visible projectile) can be reflected by Reflective Scales. Eclipse, on the other hand, reflects all single target spells.

As Khallisi said, bleeds are also unblockable. (Battleaxe bleeds + carve = nice unblockable constant bleeding)((Also scales with weapon damage))

Durham

astro74 wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

WTF!!! Use negate, vamp feed, NB fear, nova, DW through Stam... You and your friends getting put off guard by a good player is YOUR problem. These class aren't this ridiculous. You and your friends just got beat by a much better player.

We were attacking a keep and out comes a single DK that charge us so we were not off guard. It was a PUG so I dunno bout the others but Im atleast a decent PvP:er (not the best but not the worst either). I have never seen another class singlehanded take on a group of ten-twelve people unless they wanted to suicide, just the thing that he took on such a big group says something about the class. He was good I give him that and he must have been dressed in yellow because my SD is 129 unbuffed and my WD is a bit over the softcap when using surge and I was spamming crushing shock and crystalshard on proc on him while he was killing off my friends and his health were between 70-100% for god know how long. I did kill him in the end but then he already killed half our group.

Learn to play? Lightweaving and crushing shock is one of the best DPS a sorc can do, if he survives for 2-3 minutes when attacked like that it´s

Skilled player always trumps class in this game....

Elvikun

You take them out on a date and just as you are finishing the food and the mood is getting friendlier, stab them to the eye with fork.

Out of curiosity is there even a class or a skill that is not "OMG SO OP L2P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111!"?

Don't take me wrong, there are balance issues, it's just that people rarely use the right tools and the perceive it as the game's fault.
You know, like when the rogue with small butter knife thinks they totally should be winning that 1v1 with the clad-in-iron warrior with rogue-sized sword. Just think about it, you know?

astro74

Minsc wrote: »

astro74 wrote: »

.....
Learn to play? Lightweaving and crushing shock is one of the best DPS a sorc can do, if he survives for 2-3 minutes when attacked like that it´s a tad...overpowered.

Hmm.... That sentence explains a lot

As I said.. ONE of the best DPS... I know there are other combos aswell but for a high sustained DPS this is pretty good (with my specific build anyway).
I know there are better combos for PvP.

I think part of my specific problem is as ppl already pointed out that im a vamp and they do lots of firedamage.. However I think if i get the drop on a DK (long range) and he is fighting someone else I should be able to kill him. I buy that he will kill me in 0 range, I have no problem with that.

astro74

Ok I'm getting reports about full wipes so it is time to revise the advice. I also created a thread where people could teach me how to play and I got tons of good advice there.

So the initial tactic was flawed, here is how you kill the DK in the best way:
Stack up on camps, food and pots.

Skip the archers since they will only pierce themselves on deflected arrows and perhaps half of the raid with them.

Sorcerers shall shieldstack atleast 3 shields and stand ready to hit the teleport button to work as a distraction.

Rest must bash the DK and then immediatly use some sort of block ability that reflects back the reflected damage (apparently it can ounly bounce 2 times so it will end up hitting the DK (rumour says Zenimax is looking into this to allow it to bounce one more time).

The other raidgroup shall NOT use trecuchets or ballistas since those counts as projectiles and will be reflected instantly whiping raidgroup 2 and 3 and half the server with it. Instead the raidgroup needs to hide and sneak up behind the DK and pour burning oil on him since that doesnt count as a projectile. Zenimax acknowledged this vournability and will implement a hotfix for it but the 1337 xploit guild on PTS confirmed you can go around this by hiding the second raidgroup in a 6m high tree. Your tanks needs to be pro though and lure the DK under the tree. Zenimax will add full fire resistance fot the DK (together with the spell immunity and dragonskin to prevent slashdamage) in patch 6 though so xploit while you can.

The third raidgroup will totally avoid the DK not to trigger reflections but instead be focusing on setting up forward camps and run for more oil.

Now this is cruicial: while engaging the DK call your Russian hackerfriends to perform a DoS attack on the computer running the DK and once he disconnects send in the NBs to finish him off.

After patch 6 you simply have to keep the DK occupied and wait for Zenimax to go bankrupt, as they are uninstalling the serverside there might be a glitch you can exploit. Until then bring a *** of soulgems and forward camps.


(No I didnt try the new advice and no Im not pissed...)

Palidon

I will tell you the best way to beat a DK as a NB using Dual Wield/Bow. Simply avoid the contact. Even if using sneak attacks if the DK is wearing imprenable armor your efforts are wasted and you will be devastated. The Dual Wield/Bow NB build is too underpowered to take on a DK in PvP. This is were I totally disagree with ZOS on attack damage especially using stealth and sneak attacks. If you are using stealth and sneaking up on an opponent the damage output of those attacks should be high DPS yet for a NB they are not because of ZOS's mindset to nerf the NB still line time and time again. Most recent example was when in a patch did away with the stack of Haste and Rapid Strikes which was giving out some nice sustained DPS as a NB Dual Wielder. Was that really important to change in light of all the other more serious issues in this game that are still not fixed or just ignored?