Templars in PVE are only suppose to be healers?

Shinra

Natjur wrote: »

We sometimes allow a templar DPS into trial runs as long as they cast Luminous Shards on the tank the whole time, this allows the templar healers to just do pure healing. But AA and Hel Ra runs are easy theses days, so the little less dps from having one templar dps is not a big issue, but if you had 12 templars......

We tried it with 12 templars, and guess what, it worked for both AA and Hel Ra.

Khivas_Carrick

Salacious wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Oh and one more thing, as some have said @Salacious‌, you may want to ditch the sword and board and aim for a staff or other melee weapon, as a tank's weapon in the hands of a DPS tend to make the tank very nervous.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard - one handed weapons with shield give me (IMO and Experience) faster Attack Speed. I refuse to use a staff because then im auto healer. F** That.

I would also consider using two handed weapons - but they require stam to get proper attacks out where as single handed with sheild allow me to have some way to attack when they get to close faster then two handed,

Well, I didn't know a destruction staff equated to heals. Pardon my lack of knowledge on such deep game mechanics. Not like I might know a thing or two about reaching 1k dps single target, or that sword and board in pve beings to tanks solely because if a tank dies, it's either the tank not being up to snuff, the healer not being up to snuff, or you're doing it wrong.

Keep in mind I'm trying to help you, so if you want to be snide and rude I'll just see myself out.

Khivas_Carrick

Shinra wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

We sometimes allow a templar DPS into trial runs as long as they cast Luminous Shards on the tank the whole time, this allows the templar healers to just do pure healing. But AA and Hel Ra runs are easy theses days, so the little less dps from having one templar dps is not a big issue, but if you had 12 templars......

We tried it with 12 templars, and guess what, it worked for both AA and Hel Ra.

Not surprising imho.

Shinra

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Salacious wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Oh and one more thing, as some have said @Salacious‌, you may want to ditch the sword and board and aim for a staff or other melee weapon, as a tank's weapon in the hands of a DPS tend to make the tank very nervous.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard - one handed weapons with shield give me (IMO and Experience) faster Attack Speed. I refuse to use a staff because then im auto healer. F** That.

I would also consider using two handed weapons - but they require stam to get proper attacks out where as single handed with sheild allow me to have some way to attack when they get to close faster then two handed,

Well, I didn't know a destruction staff equated to heals. Pardon my lack of knowledge on such deep game mechanics. Not like I might know a thing or two about reaching 1k dps single target, or that sword and board in pve beings to tanks solely because if a tank dies, it's either the tank not being up to snuff, the healer not being up to snuff, or you're doing it wrong.

Keep in mind I'm trying to help you, so if you want to be snide and rude I'll just see myself out.

Well, you could say that a templar with a destro staff is expected to have some healing ready to use. (Either Breath of Life on the bar, or a healing staff on the second bar)
Since he already has high mana and mana regen to cast his attack spells, it makes sence that the templar would use some healing in case things got messy (either the healer died, or is unavailable because of another reason, or there is just too much damage) And it makes sence, healing is a templars greatest strength after all.
I mean, not healing when it could well save a group "because I am a DD" is just selfish.

So, as I play a templar, doesn't matter if I am tanking or dealing damage, as long as I have a mana-type build that can support it I will always have my healing spells ready to go. (Trials are different, when you have to deal max damage and it is safe to say that healing is supported by another player/other players, you should go for max damage without considering healing, of course.)

timidobserver

Shinra wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

We sometimes allow a templar DPS into trial runs as long as they cast Luminous Shards on the tank the whole time, this allows the templar healers to just do pure healing. But AA and Hel Ra runs are easy theses days, so the little less dps from having one templar dps is not a big issue, but if you had 12 templars......

We tried it with 12 templars, and guess what, it worked for both AA and Hel Ra.

But what time did you get lol?

Any mix and match group can complete Hel-Ra and AA if they know what they are doing. The main thing that wipes trials groups just aiming for completion is mechanics, not lack of dps. However, I can't see a Templar only group managing to get a top time.

Natjur wrote: »

As a templar healer, I have restore staff on one bar and Sword and Board on the other. I switch to sword and board when almost out of mana and use Blazing Shield then Spell Symmetry (and maybe cast Absorbs Magic) to get mana without losing health (even if I am getting hit).

Sword and Board is not just for the tank. This also allows me to survive if the tank gets one shotted by something, as the block passives with the templar passives allows you to take a lot of damage and get the tank back up.

We sometimes allow a templar DPS into trial runs as long as they cast Luminous Shards on the tank the whole time, this allows the templar healers to just do pure healing. But AA and Hel Ra runs are easy theses days, so the little less dps from having one templar dps is not a big issue, but if you had 12 templars......

Forcing a Templar DPS to run Luminous shards is basically gimping their DPS massively. If you do this, then your opinion of Templar DPS is invalid because it is based on your experience with forcing a Templar DPS to run a bad build to support a bad tank. Blazing Spear(the other morph) provides significantly better dps. ATM, all viable Templar trials dps builds,known to me, use blazing spear to some extent. Good trials tanks don't need Luminous Shards, so if you have a tank that is reliant on Luminous Shards, there is a problem with his tanking.

Shinra

We were a pretty random templar group from quite a few different guilds, and we didn't really know beforehand how good every player was.
Additionally, there were actually 8 healers in our group, so many had to swap for DPS during our runs. (so the builds weren't nearly perfect and the gear wasn't made for max. DPS)
So nope, we didn't hurry, and a few players died during our runs, and I don't know how much time we needed, and we certainly didn't try a speed run. (We even had two vampires with us)

timidobserver wrote: »

Forcing a Templar DPS to run Luminous shards is basically gimping their DPS massively. If you do this, then your opinion of Templar DPS is invalid because it is based on your experience with forcing a Templar DPS to run a bad build to support a bad tank. Blazing Spear(the other morph) provides significantly better dps. Good trials tanks don't need Luminous Shards, so if you have a tank that is reliant on Luminous Shards, there is a problem with his tanking.

Wut? WUT? WUUUT??!???!!!?

There is no need to attack me like that, because I can get your point. And in my guild there isn't any tank who ever needed my shards. I, when I play as a healer, even have them on my bar (the blazing ones, and only because the slot is free) just in case a tank would ever ask for it, but nobody ever needed it.

As a templar mage there are basically two builds one could use. (one involving vampires bane, blazing spears and dark flare, the other one is a crushing shock build) And I never ever heard of anybody use luminous shards, really.
I do prefer the first build with the blazing spears, because it somewhat boosts the DPS of melee fighters, but Luminous Shards where never even considered in the theory crafting of our guild (and even my blazing spears where never a requirement for me to join the raids)

timidobserver

Shinra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Forcing a Templar DPS to run Luminous shards is basically gimping their DPS massively. If you do this, then your opinion of Templar DPS is invalid because it is based on your experience with forcing a Templar DPS to run a bad build to support a bad tank. Blazing Spear(the other morph) provides significantly better dps. Good trials tanks don't need Luminous Shards, so if you have a tank that is reliant on Luminous Shards, there is a problem with his tanking.

Wut? WUT? WUUUT??!???!!!?

There is no need to attack me like that, because I can get your point. And in my guild there isn't any tank who ever needed my shards. I, when I play as a healer, even have them on my bar (the blazing ones, and only because the slot is free) just in case a tank would ever ask for it, but nobody ever needed it.

As a templar mage there are basically two builds one could use. (one involving vampires bane, blazing spears and dark flare, the other one is a crushing shock build) And I never ever heard of anybody use luminous shards, really.
I do prefer the first build with the blazing spears, because it somewhat boosts the DPS of melee fighters, but Luminous Shards where never even considered in the theory crafting of our guild (and even my blazing spears where never a requirement for me to join the raids)

Sometimes you have to read carefully. There are two people quoted in my response. The first was you and the second to someone else. To you, I questioned your groups ability to get a top time running with all Templar.
I then responded to Natjur about the whole luminous shards thing.

In other words, what you quoted was not directed at you. Also, there were no attacks in anything I typed.

Shinra

timidobserver wrote: »

Shinra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Forcing a Templar DPS to run Luminous shards is basically gimping their DPS massively. If you do this, then your opinion of Templar DPS is invalid because it is based on your experience with forcing a Templar DPS to run a bad build to support a bad tank. Blazing Spear(the other morph) provides significantly better dps. Good trials tanks don't need Luminous Shards, so if you have a tank that is reliant on Luminous Shards, there is a problem with his tanking.

Wut? WUT? WUUUT??!???!!!?

There is no need to attack me like that, because I can get your point. And in my guild there isn't any tank who ever needed my shards. I, when I play as a healer, even have them on my bar (the blazing ones, and only because the slot is free) just in case a tank would ever ask for it, but nobody ever needed it.

As a templar mage there are basically two builds one could use. (one involving vampires bane, blazing spears and dark flare, the other one is a crushing shock build) And I never ever heard of anybody use luminous shards, really.
I do prefer the first build with the blazing spears, because it somewhat boosts the DPS of melee fighters, but Luminous Shards where never even considered in the theory crafting of our guild (and even my blazing spears where never a requirement for me to join the raids)

Sometimes you have to read carefully. There are two people quoted in my response. The first was you and the second to someone else. To you, I questioned your groups ability to get a top time running with all Templar.
I then responded to Natjur about the whole luminous shards thing.

In other words, what you quoted was not directed at you. Also, there were no attacks in anything I typed.

If I would have read carefully, I would have noticed

Still, I never heard of anybody ever using luminous shards...

Salacious

So I went and did a dungeon yesterday, I brought one heal and the rest was mostly DPS based spells with two weapons abilities (Im single weapons/shield) - and no one cared. I think dungeons are done like GW2 - zerg fest.

Averya_Teira

Salacious wrote: »

So I went and did a dungeon yesterday, I brought one heal and the rest was mostly DPS based spells with two weapons abilities (Im single weapons/shield) - and no one cared. I think dungeons are done like GW2 - zerg fest.

That's true for lvl 1-50 dungeons. Not for trials and VR dungeons. Far from it.

Salacious

Well I refuse to be a healer. I am either DPS or nothing - I wont be labeled.

Shinra

Veteran Dungeons and Trials are pretty hard. That's a truth.

But it's also true, that with a nice guild, you can play whatever you want in both Veteran Dungeons and Trials. With randoms, it will get hard to find a group which takes you.

Well, I always wanted to be the healer, so our opinions are probably pretty different.

But I already played as DPS, and as Tank as well. And that is my conclusion:


As Healers the templar is the best. duh.

Magicka-Type Tank (with light armor) is easy, as long as you have the health to get blazing shield stronger and the manabuild to support it, you won't even have to block. Of course, tanking isn't easy in this game at all, so practice and some add ons will help.

Stamina-Type Tank needs heavy armor, because there aren't much armor-buffs to use. And stamina regen can be increased with Radiant Aura or Repentence.

Magicka-Type pure DPS is so-so at best. I only use that one against the Whispmother in the Archive (because my guild normally takes two temp-healers for the archive, but one swaps for damage against that boss) You don't really have magicka-regen passives to support it, not the best spells to cast and no weapondamage buff like sorc or dragonknight either.

Magicka-Type Support-DPS hybrid while useless in most trials, is a wonderful thing to have in Veteran Dungeons. I normally use Vulcanic Runes and Blazing Spears as Anti-Mob-Skills, Dark Flare and again, Blazing Spears as Single-target, Mage Light for crit and Breath of Life for those situations when the healer dies, goes out of mana, gets turned into a sceleton, turned into a stone statue, sucked into a black hole or something similar.

Stamina-Type DPS I will admit it, I don't have much experience with that. I would go with dual wield, I guess against Mobs it's pretty good because of Blazing Shield and Repentence, but against Bosses it could get pretty hard because stamina builds are still weaker than magicka builds. And again, it lacks a decent weapondamage buff.

Dual-Type DPS That is still only a concept in my head. With the right legendary equipment and sets, and light armor, you should be able to get magicka, health and stamina up to nearly 2400 each. With the mana regen from light armor and the stamina regen from Repentence this could become a pretty viable build. Still, only a concept that I never tried out, and weapon damage, spell damage and critical chance through sets would go missing because I would use everything for the primary stats.

tathagatagarbha

no one beats a templar as a healing class in PvE, thats true
but it doesn't mean we are supposed to heal

you can reach pretty good single-target DPS as a templar in trials (power of the light + dark flare anyone?)

when not taking the role of the healer i would suggest tanking though, we got some pretty good skills for that: you can use blinding flashes for the trash and stuff like radiant aura for crazy stamina sustain while wearing light armor (use an armor-glyph on rings to reach 2k armor) to heal AND tank so the actual healer in the group can DPS for some time
this way we effectivly increase the DPS of the whole group

oh and while tanking you can spam blazing shield when no heal is needed, so you are let's say 1/2 DPS, full tank and a healer in 1 person...

i run a tank-build like this, its linked in the description of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhIr9V_pdNM

Salacious

I refuse to be any thing but DPS. Taking is boring and so is healing. I want to be dealing some damage. I did some craiglorn yesterday no one minded I was dps.

Natjur

I have one of each class at V14, and I normally use my templar for healing but sometimes tanking (if I don't want to play my Dragonknight)

I have seen sorcs tanking in 7 light armor and not using a shield. Sure its doable, but its not ideal.

Templars can do dps, its just not ideal. But who said ever group has to be ideal? I have done instances with 4 templar's and it was a lot of fun.

If a group is looking for one more dps and they get a reply from a templar for dps and also a reply from any other class, they will normally take the other class. That's the issue, but that does not mean a templar can't dps, it just means all other classes are better at it but not by much.

Since Patch 1.5 things are a little closer (no templar did not get a boost, the others got a nerf) But when a group is looking for healer and they get a reply from a templar, sorc and NB, they will always take the templar for healing.

The best thing about being a templar, I can mark myself in the LFG channel as tank, healer or dps and know I can do any of those roles without issues. All classes SHOULD be able to do that with ease, but ever seen a DK healing?

Qhival

Fruitmass wrote: »

Several times I've run in three and four man groups where all of us are temps and we come out smelling like a rose.

lol @ this. It's very very true. I've been in a bunch of templar only groups and everyone was so damn self sufficient. It is nice having a group where everyone can hold their own like that.

markfaithful123b16_ESO

I run a DD Templar and have been quite successful so far. Have not done trails, but in all vet dungeons have been at least pulling my own weight. Found a build on the internet but cant remember website.

Build is as follows:

Breton

All staff and light armour. Light armour with extra armour traits, 5 Seducer and 2 torugs pact. (My choices not builds)

Single target Bar:

Vampires Bane
Power of the Light
Dengeneration
Dark Flare
Inner Light
Ulti: Solar Prison

AoE Bar:

Blazing Spear
Elemental Wall (Build says Necrotic Orb, but haven't got it yet)
Blinding Flashes
Puncturing Strikes
Inner Light
Ulti: Solar Prison (I want Meteor for the knock back)

Might download a dps meter to see how it fares but not to bothered about it really.

I have a lot of fun with it and seem to do better than other dps when on my tank but meh each to there own.

Khivas_Carrick

Shinra wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Salacious wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Oh and one more thing, as some have said @Salacious‌, you may want to ditch the sword and board and aim for a staff or other melee weapon, as a tank's weapon in the hands of a DPS tend to make the tank very nervous.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard - one handed weapons with shield give me (IMO and Experience) faster Attack Speed. I refuse to use a staff because then im auto healer. F** That.

I would also consider using two handed weapons - but they require stam to get proper attacks out where as single handed with sheild allow me to have some way to attack when they get to close faster then two handed,

Well, I didn't know a destruction staff equated to heals. Pardon my lack of knowledge on such deep game mechanics. Not like I might know a thing or two about reaching 1k dps single target, or that sword and board in pve beings to tanks solely because if a tank dies, it's either the tank not being up to snuff, the healer not being up to snuff, or you're doing it wrong.

Keep in mind I'm trying to help you, so if you want to be snide and rude I'll just see myself out.

Well, you could say that a templar with a destro staff is expected to have some healing ready to use. (Either Breath of Life on the bar, or a healing staff on the second bar)
Since he already has high mana and mana regen to cast his attack spells, it makes sence that the templar would use some healing in case things got messy (either the healer died, or is unavailable because of another reason, or there is just too much damage) And it makes sence, healing is a templars greatest strength after all.
I mean, not healing when it could well save a group "because I am a DD" is just selfish.

So, as I play a templar, doesn't matter if I am tanking or dealing damage, as long as I have a mana-type build that can support it I will always have my healing spells ready to go. (Trials are different, when you have to deal max damage and it is safe to say that healing is supported by another player/other players, you should go for max damage without considering healing, of course.)

Again no, not necessary. Templars gimmick is to provide support, and that support can come in more forms than just Healing. I provide it via Spear Shards and CC. In fact, I submitted a build to the Battlemaster's corner but ten to one it won't get picked since my pics were......meh.

But aside from that, I'll give you a quick run down of what's what for DPSing as a Stamina Based, Imperial Templar.

1) Be an Imperial or other Stamina Friendly race, such as Redguard or even Bosmer.

2) Weapons of choice aer 2H and Bow, 2H with Poison Enchant, Bow with Fire.

3) 31 Health 31 Stamina for attributes.

4) All Stamina enchants, and all jewelry needs weapon damage enchants with Robust traits.

Basics out the way, the skill bar for the 2H resembles something like this:

Blazing Spear (Since Tanks and other Stamina Builds need Stamina, here goes both your DPS and your support)

Rally, to bolster your 2H DPS and heal yourself, taking stress off the healer a little.

Reverse Slice, since Executioner simply caps out early and frankly when it's crunch time you're spamming your execute anyway, so no need for a boost to weapon abilities during that time frame. Plus it's AoE is nice now.

Vampire's Bane, because FIRE (and a nice DoT).

Wrecking Blow, because attacking weaving with Light and Heavy is AMAZING.

Flawless Dawnbreaker for ultimate, again to make your weapon damage more amazing and for an easily spammable attack, during AoE replace Vamp's bane for Carve and start spamming it with Flawless Dawnbreaker.

The Bow is more like this!:

Blazing Spear and Vampire's Bane, same reasons as before, but now you rock Venom Arrow for long range interrupts on things you can't use Unstable Core on, which btw is amazing for Mage Adds in DSA and Dungeons alike, excellent way to take them down. The main bread and butter of this of course is Lethal Arrow, which adds the Poison Debuff and decreases healing, making it an all around good skill to use.


Templars can be Support DPS in more than one way, don't forget that.

Sorcrater

I'm coming into this kinda late, but Templar DPS is perfectly viable whether you are melee or ranged. Our AoE is pretty much the best out of all the classes and our survivability lets us keep the damage rolling without having to worry about, um, death. If you want single target damage, DK or NB is a little better, but groups of enemies charging at you while you've got Blazing shield and Blazing Spear equipped will pretty much be a murder party...in your favor. Go forth proud Templar!

Koensol

I have to agree with the OP. Tempars can dps just fine, IF played well (which is challenging). What I don't believe is that sorc is a better healer. Simply because templars put out much more healing, with spells like breath of life paired with extended ritual. Sorc might be more sustained, but templar are more potent imo because of their capability to heal through HUGE spike damage.

Salacious

Koensol wrote: »

I have to agree with the OP. Tempars can dps just fine, IF played well (which is challenging). What I don't believe is that sorc is a better healer. Simply because templars put out much more healing, with spells like breath of life paired with extended ritual. Sorc might be more sustained, but templar are more potent imo because of their capability to heal through HUGE spike damage.

It is not challenging to play well, you've played for 50 levels as one. Possibly an additional 14. You should know it backwards and forwards.

yodased

If you are AD NA you are more than welcome to come kill things with my gang and myself. We welcome any class combo

Salacious

I am DF NA sorry - but thanks

Koensol

Salacious wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

I have to agree with the OP. Tempars can dps just fine, IF played well (which is challenging). What I don't believe is that sorc is a better healer. Simply because templars put out much more healing, with spells like breath of life paired with extended ritual. Sorc might be more sustained, but templar are more potent imo because of their capability to heal through HUGE spike damage.

It is not challenging to play well, you've played for 50 levels as one. Possibly an additional 14. You should know it backwards and forwards.

It IS easier to do high dps on a NB or DK, than on a Templar. Templar requires a bit more skill than the easymode DKs. Thats all.

Leon119

As a very experianced templar i can say they can do everything:
Best healers in game
2nd best tanks ( 2nd to DKs )
Magicka dps is high ( i can easily do 1k )
Stamina as well is pretty good didnt test after new patch though.
That being said i would rather the templar be a healer so if i want to dps ill just go with my nb.
as for max dps output i saw from my friends top is DK followed by NB and sorcs ( yes they are equal if u think sorc is the worst then u are doing something wrong ) then templars. That being said all classes can surpass 1k dps so meh pick 1 of each for group utility.