Templars in PVE are only suppose to be healers?

Salacious

So I have been running some dungeons and exploring the world and enjoying my time in the game - But I every time I group and a player is being attacked, I get yelled at because I am carrying and wearing the wrong equipment.

According to the ESO Community (not every one, just the couple hundred I run across when I group, do group content or participate) I am a templar, this mean I need to have a staff, light armour, magic points and heal spells with some offence but mostly heal. If I see a player down - I need to heal them.

If I want to be DPS I need to play a different class.

Um ....

No.

How does that make sense - ok so templars have the majority of the healing spells - Sorc. is the most powerful class for casters (IMO) and are better for healing IMO. I a play ranged DPS mostly focusing on DOTS and I carry a sword and shield should you get close enough to me. I focus all my points into magic with a couple in stam. I also wear 3 peices of light, the rest heavy.

Yet I am constantly told, and I quote: You are doing it wrong - GTFO.

I am kicked from groups, guilds and yelled at in zone chat when "grouping" with other players. Even Sorc. yells at me.

Can some one tell me whats up with this community? Am I legitimately doing it wrong? or am I running into trolls?

timidobserver

Yes, people mostly want Templar to heal. There are a few really solid DPS specs out there for a Templar, but unless you are a guild leader and can do what you want, people are generally going to expect you to be a healer if you are just joining a random group of strangers.

In my experience the only people that will allow a Templar to dps without complaining are people that know them and are aware that they know how to dps properly on their Templar.

Salacious

I find this extremly unfair, while yes we have the most healing spells. it makes no sense that we are then given as many offensive spells as we are if our expected roll is healer. I refuse to be anything more then a DPS, I do cary a healing spell and it does heal all allies, but I don't focus on healing. I focus on killing and killing fast.

timidobserver

Salacious wrote: »

I find this extremly unfair, while yes we have the most healing spells. it makes no sense that we are then given as many offensive spells as we are if our expected roll is healer. I refuse to be anything more then a DPS, I do cary a healing spell and it does heal all allies, but I don't focus on healing. I focus on killing and killing fast.

Cool, one step you can take it letting your group know that you are dps well in advance of going into the dungeon or whatever it is you are doing. So, as soon as the group is formed, make sure that everyone knows and understands that you are not a healer.

Another step would be finding a good guild and focusing on running with them.

Aeratus

Templars can do good dps, but from what I've seen, only a select few are capable of such. Based on this general trend, people get suspicious when they see a random Templar who they do not know.

If the Templar is one I know who has proven to be good at dps, there is obviously no issue. In a four-man group, I can generally tell how much dps the other person is doing when I'm playing as the other dps.

Salacious

obviously nightblades are gonna do 6x more, same with DK and Sorc. But I would not discount the templar and their abilities, random or not.

Tripwyr

DK ~= Templar > NB >>> Sorc in Trial DPS.

The problem is that Templar DPS is very difficult to perform compared to other classes. Additionally, most strong Templar DPS builds are medium armor hybrids which is not well accepted in the current state of the game.

Remember: Sorcs are garbage.

Salacious

I watch sorcs come by me and obliterate everything in their path same with DK and nightblade and I can usually take down a five man group of enemies rather easily with my spells and ultimate. But sorcs seem to do one hit kill all damage

B11zzard

If I want to be DPS I need to play a different class.

This.

Salacious

I am not going to bow to the community telling me I am a failure at a class because I choose to play as a DPS. I think thats letting the trolls win.

I am trying to establish if Templars really and and truly can be DPS.

Tripwyr

This might help:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/crusader-templar-2h-pve-melee-dps-800-1400-single-target/

I really don't know why people think Sorcs are good for anything at all. They are outclassed in every regard for everything except hitting really hard with a projectile that takes forever to cast. They're also above average at running away.

If your goal is to deal PvE DPS, I recommend picking any class except Sorcerer.

Aeratus

Salacious wrote: »

I am not going to bow to the community telling me I am a failure at a class because I choose to play as a DPS. I think thats letting the trolls win.

I am trying to establish if Templars really and and truly can be DPS.

Templar dps is kind of an enigma to me. Most people out there will tell you that they can't dps, and this seems to be the case in general, but I see some templars that seem to be ridiculously good at dps. I wish I could tell you more, but my Templar is too low level for me to understand the class.

kewl

Salacious wrote: »

I am not going to bow to the community telling me I am a failure at a class because I choose to play as a DPS. I think thats letting the trolls win.

I am trying to establish if Templars really and and truly can be DPS.

They can...all classes can DPS, tank or heal. But not all classes and/or builds are optimal for these roles. If you want to Templar DPS in trials, you'll have to run with a group that knows you.

Salacious

kewl wrote: »

Salacious wrote: »

I am not going to bow to the community telling me I am a failure at a class because I choose to play as a DPS. I think thats letting the trolls win.

I am trying to establish if Templars really and and truly can be DPS.

They can...all classes can DPS, tank or heal. But not all classes and/or builds are optimal for these roles. If you want to Templar DPS in trials, you'll have to run with a group that knows you.

well trials are out - I dont have friends that play this game.

tplink3r1

kewl wrote: »

Salacious wrote: »

I am not going to bow to the community telling me I am a failure at a class because I choose to play as a DPS. I think thats letting the trolls win.

I am trying to establish if Templars really and and truly can be DPS.

They can...all classes can DPS, tank or heal. But not all classes and/or builds are optimal for these roles. If you want to Templar DPS in trials, you'll have to run with a group that knows you.

every class can heal almost like us, can tank like us but we cant have half of their DPS.
theres something wrong there.

Salacious

apparently this is a typical MMO where you must have a healer, tank and DPS, but from the way its advertised, every one can be anything.

Tripwyr

tplink3r1 wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

Salacious wrote: »

I am not going to bow to the community telling me I am a failure at a class because I choose to play as a DPS. I think thats letting the trolls win.

I am trying to establish if Templars really and and truly can be DPS.

They can...all classes can DPS, tank or heal. But not all classes and/or builds are optimal for these roles. If you want to Templar DPS in trials, you'll have to run with a group that knows you.

every class can heal almost like us, can tank like us but we cant have half of their DPS.
theres something wrong there.

Templar DPS is competitive with NB and DK, and higher than Sorc (the worst DPS class). Just because you haven't figured it out doesn't mean it isn't possible.

tplink3r1

Tripwyr wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

Salacious wrote: »

I am not going to bow to the community telling me I am a failure at a class because I choose to play as a DPS. I think thats letting the trolls win.

I am trying to establish if Templars really and and truly can be DPS.

They can...all classes can DPS, tank or heal. But not all classes and/or builds are optimal for these roles. If you want to Templar DPS in trials, you'll have to run with a group that knows you.

every class can heal almost like us, can tank like us but we cant have half of their DPS.
theres something wrong there.

Templar DPS is competitive with NB and DK, and higher than Sorc (the worst DPS class). Just because you haven't figured it out doesn't mean it isn't possible.

please, show me a video of a templar dealing 2k DPS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGC5FMWGTVA = 2,8k dps DK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT9v1BEaYeg = 1.2k dps templar
note that he used a LOT of exploits do achieve 1.2k dps.

Salacious

I think 1.2k is pretty good.

Nox_Aeterna

Salacious wrote: »

apparently this is a typical MMO where you must have a healer, tank and DPS, but from the way its advertised, every one can be anything.

You can , when you are solo, but that is it.

When you start to play in a group then yes you must pick a role and better be good at it , the players will make the rules and most players dont care you want to play the way you want , atleast not in their PUG groups , ofc unless the way you want to play is proved to work just fine.

Play the way you want is a nice "idea" the devs came up with to get sales. It is neat , but in the end since it is not well balanced enough that all classes can perform the roles more or less with the same efficiency , ofc the playerbase itself starts to reject the idea.

Salacious

I still don't think regardless of the above poster - that templars should be restricted to healing only.

Jahoel

tplink3r1 wrote: »

note that he used a LOT of exploits do achieve 1.2k dps.

Such as Explosion causing 42% of the damage that I deal on a 6.2 second fight, with full PvP buffs?

Oh, that was the DK. I, the Templar you are claiming to have 'exploited' on a simple mammoth demonstration kill, had no Explosion procs on a ~14 second fight with 0 Cyrodiil buffs.

Explosion is not an exploit, but I think anyone who knows what it is and how it works understands what I'm saying here.

In a burst fight with a competent raid group, I am rarely more than 200 DPS behind any DK numbers I have ever seen (excluding, of course, pre-standard-nerf DKs)

In a sustained fight, there is even less variation - I am typically within 100 DPS of some of the best Dragon Knights.

We are not taking into account that I am not the best Templar player. I have run with, and seen, Templar who are parsing 100 more DPS than me on average. With an assortment of builds, weapons, and armor types.

I'm not interested in this non-stop, insubstantial argument; we are all entitled to our own opinions about the classes, and are all subject to differing experiences in regards to DPS balance. But please cite the 'exploits' that I am using if you are going to make the claim. Hold it down, @Tripwyr. You speak mostly truth here.

Aeratus

Such as Explosion causing 42% of the damage that I deal on a 6.2 second fight

That explosion (random super-proc) in the DK video is ridiculous.

But you won't see that in any normal encounter, since that proc isn't possible on anything that doesn't have a fire weakness attribute.

tplink3r1

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

Salacious wrote: »

I am not going to bow to the community telling me I am a failure at a class because I choose to play as a DPS. I think thats letting the trolls win.

I am trying to establish if Templars really and and truly can be DPS.

They can...all classes can DPS, tank or heal. But not all classes and/or builds are optimal for these roles. If you want to Templar DPS in trials, you'll have to run with a group that knows you.

every class can heal almost like us, can tank like us but we cant have half of their DPS.
theres something wrong there.

Templar DPS is competitive with NB and DK, and higher than Sorc (the worst DPS class). Just because you haven't figured it out doesn't mean it isn't possible.

please, show me a video of a templar dealing 2k DPS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGC5FMWGTVA = 2,8k dps DK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT9v1BEaYeg = 1.2k dps templar

Jahoel wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

note that he used a LOT of exploits do achieve 1.2k dps.

Such as Explosion causing 42% of the damage that I deal on a 6.2 second fight, with full PvP buffs?

Oh, that was the DK. I, the Templar you are claiming to have 'exploited' on a simple mammoth demonstration kill, had no Explosion procs on a ~14 second fight with 0 Cyrodiil buffs.

Explosion is not an exploit, but I think anyone who knows what it is and how it works understands what I'm saying here.

In a burst fight with a competent raid group, I am rarely more than 200 DPS behind any DK numbers I have ever seen (excluding, of course, pre-standard-nerf DKs)

In a sustained fight, there is even less variation - I am typically within 100 DPS of some of the best Dragon Knights.

We are not taking into account that I am not the best Templar player. I have run with, and seen, Templar who are parsing 100 more DPS than me on average. With an assortment of builds, weapons, and armor types.

I'm not interested in this non-stop, insubstantial argument; we are all entitled to our own opinions about the classes, and are all subject to differing experiences in regards to DPS balance. But please cite the 'exploits' that I am using if you are going to make the claim. Hold it down, @Tripwyr. You speak mostly truth here.

i was talking about the cancel cast/animation cancel,

timidobserver

Tripwyr wrote: »

This might help:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/crusader-templar-2h-pve-melee-dps-800-1400-single-target/

I really don't know why people think Sorcs are good for anything at all. They are outclassed in every regard for everything except hitting really hard with a projectile that takes forever to cast. They're also above average at running away.

If your goal is to deal PvE DPS, I recommend picking any class except Sorcerer.

Maybe, but Sorcs are pretty much essential due to negate and NBs are essential due to veil. Negate and Veil can compensate for average or poor dps. On the other hand, there is really no good reason to bring a Templar DPS unless you know them and know that they are really good at it. They don't really bring anything to the group with regard to Hel Ra and AA.

Voodoo

nope.

AngryNord

Salacious wrote: »

Can some one tell me whats up with this community? Am I legitimately doing it wrong? or am I running into trolls?

It is full of elitist pricks, unfortunately. I'd say report each and every one of them in-game for harassment.Then, if you're on the EU server, send me a PM with your in-game account name and I'll send you an invite to the guild I'm in.

Fruitmass

OP don't get discouraged. I've run plenty of groups with dps tmplars and more often than not they do just fine. Several times I've run in three and four man groups where all of us are temps and we come out smelling like a rose.

Sometimes people are looking for a specific class/role/ect, for the sake of clearing achievements and such so sadly your going to be passed up from time to time. However most players are fairly open minded and excepting and if your really trying to do your part in a group you likely wont catch any flak.

Unfortunately much to all our eternal consternation there are people who are simply unreasonable. They demand a level of perfection that is well nigh unreachable by most mortals. And they get right buggery when they don't get it.

Magdalina

The answer to the question in the topic of the thread is no, templars also make great, awesome, absolutely immortal tanks:P But worse dps than other classes, or at least harder-to-manage dps from what I've seen - very few (good) templar dps out there.
I used to think it extremely unfair(I'm a sorc), but if you actually think about it...I tried tanking on my sorc, and it's really hard. Not impossible, but hard. I have virtually no self heals(aside from Crit surge but it relies on me attacking AND critting which is not smth I can do much while tanking), unlike, say, my favourite templar tank which can survive literally without any heals on my part AND do some off heals in a pinch.

So if you think about it that way...they take away from your dps but add to your healing/tanking. They take away from sorc tanking but add to dps. That actually sounds kind of fair, even my templar tank agrees with that.

Oh, and much as it pains me to admit it, good templar heals is always better than equally good sorc heals because, mainly and mostly, Breath of Life. You have a non aoe targeted heal which can pull people out from pretty much death to full health. I don't have anything remotedly close to that.

That said, no matter what you do, people you run with do sound rude, I'd never say something like that. I might've politely advised you to try full scale tanking though, especially if you already use s&b, since you'd probably feel much more comfortable in that role as a templar.

Woolenthreads

One skill line of Healing is not all the healing in the game, but there are a lot of people who see the fact that the other classes can only have one skill-line of healing via the staff as opposed to the Templars two skill-lines, including a staff, as "proof" that Templars are healers. It's a POV, based on the idea that the DK support SL is Defense, the Sorc support SL is utility and CC, the Night blades support SL is Buff/Debuff and the Templars have two support SL with CC and Healing.

Truth be told here, I actually prefer running the Argonian Templar Healer to any of my other characters ATM because I've been winning the main PVE fights with less raging on my part (For instance that moment when you have the NPC down to 5% of its health and it somehow kills you when you were on 30+% of your health). My Sorcerer, DK and Nightblade all struggled with the Castle of Worms where the Templar simply went in and got Tharn out (The sorcerer struggled because I didn't know about Silver Bolts at the time).

Personally I don't see quite what they have an issue with, it's not about what you play in this game so much as how well you play. I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't be happy with my Templar Healer build because I haven't set it up for group healing, it's in the PvE zones and group healing would make it harder to play.

# Edit: About the only place I can practice group healing are in the Public/Group Dungeons or at the Dolmens.

TehMagnus

You can do very nice DPS on a Templar, and sorry but it does require a staff because 2H hybrid build is very nice and all, but when you're in a ranged or moving fight: it's crap.

With a staff I've seen Templars pulling more than 1K DPS on most AA bosses (1,8k on first boss) and ~900 on last boss (which is still nice DPS and prolly superior to most DKs & NBs out there who don't know what they are doing), but, at equal skill, you have less potential for max DPS than a NB or a DK and are less useful than a sorc since he's gonna DPS & Off heal to use Negate while you can't reload Nova as fast while DPSing.

People looking for optimization won't want to play with you as a DPS since templars are more optimized for healing and not DPSing (and Breath of Life is op in many situations so other classes can't heal as well).

I know I don't want to go in a dungeon with a Templar DPS period and I don't want to do trial speed runs with a Templar DPS if I have an equally good NB or DK available.