ZoS will vampires and werewolves be addressed in the justice system? (SAGE'S RESPONSE ON PAGE 4)

MornaBaine

There has been a lot of speculation and suggestions as to what SHOULD happen to vampires (generally according to stages) in cities and towns and werewolves (who pop their Ult and are in werewolf form in cities and towns). Many folks in these various threads seem to feel there SHOULD be SOME sort of consequence involving the justice system for these characters. So, WILL THERE BE any sort of inclusion of vampire/werewolf specific consequences in the justice system? Will there be any NPCs who even RECOGNIZE that they are vampires or werewolves and react to them in ANY way? And will it be possible to feed, as a vampire, on NPC citizens with the possibility of NOT being forced to kill them? ANY light you can shed on this rather hotly debated subject would be appreciated. Thank you.

Thuster

The NPCs will recognize you as a Vampire or a Werewolf and will react to that. I think they answered it in a previous ESOlive

AlienSlof

I would like to know this also, as most of my characters are vampires. I WANT there to be consequences!

Aoife32001

There should be, but I seriously doubt there will be. Too many people would likely complain as it would force people who don't want to be part of the justice system to do so if they become vampires/werewolves.

WolffenBloodseeker

Just like in the previous Tes games when possible my character is a werewolf in secret, i want to have consequences if i transform in public or if i'm spoted by a friendly common npc while transforming, and be marked for the justice system while in beast form of course, choices should have consequences, i chose to become a monster to the eyes of the people of tamriel, i should face the consequences of my choice, just like vampires at stage 4 should also be flaged for te justice system, people want all the goodies whithout any consequences q

Iduyenn

1000% for it. But i didn`t dare to ask this question...
For example, if you transform in public, the guard will attack you. (And also the comments like "You smell like wet dogs". I loved this).
I would love to se some response from the game of you beeing a WW or a Vamp. For example, dogs recognizing you, or wolves not attacking you.

Runefell

Iduyenn wrote: »

(And also the comments like "You smell like wet dogs". I loved this).

I always thought it dumb when they said 'Is that... fur... growing out of your ears?'. This one is a Khajiit! Of course she has furry ears!

But yeah, I wouldn't mind some reactions to certain 'conditions'. Though, honestly, if Stage 4 Vampires become public enemies, then there really needs to be longer time periods before stages. And, in turn, I'd very much prefer staying at stage one have some sort of perks, like looking slightly more normal.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO

I do believe in the summit notes on the foundry they mentioned the user will have the ability to opt-out of the justice system when in towns to prevent things from happening accidentally. With that, I can see them implementing consequences for vampirism and lycanthropy since, if you didn't want that to happen, you'd be able to opt-out.

Inversus

Vampires should be able to feed on npcs, which results in a penalty - but just being a vampire shouldn't be penalised imo.
But feel free to kill the werewolves

AshySamurai

It would be nice to see consequences for being vamp/ww. But if you can just flag yourself for JS - it doesn't really matter(confirm that was mentioned on guild summit).

Iduyenn

Inversus wrote: »

Vampires should be able to feed on npcs, which results in a penalty - but just being a vampire shouldn't be penalised imo.
But feel free to kill the werewolves

Grrr, game on!



PS: But since you are either outlaw or enforcer you have to different abbilitytrees to follow.
I think its a nice idea, to be an enforcer, even if you are a werewolf. You should only be outlaw, if you act against law.
So if you enforce as a ww, is that a good thing, because you enforce the law, or is that a bad thing, because you are a ww and because of that an outlaw per se.

JamilaRaj

Inversus wrote: »

Vampires should be able to feed on npcs, which results in a penalty - but just being a vampire shouldn't be penalised imo.

Since they are all about being after our bodily fluids, they should be penalized even if they do not suck someone's blood at the moment.
Besides, it's not like they somehow accidentaly became bloodsuckers. It was their choice to run around yelling "WTB vamp bite", so they must stand just punishment.

Drazhar14

It would be epic turning into a werewolf in the middle of town, and having all the NPCs scream and run into their homes. Or having them point fingers at you as you walk around in stage 4 vampirism. More immersion = better rpg.

Elf_Boy

I am not so sure there are not now consequences...

No doubt a bug in the game but..... Yesterday before bed I decided to catch up on some crafting. Get research going and all that.

As random or not so random change would play out my two primary crafter's are a female Dunmer Sorc Vampire and a male Bosmer NB WW.

I was also stage 4 on the vampire when I logged on. I could not get any guild vendor - including at the bank - to sell me anything. Hitting "D" resulted in a blank page no matter what/where.

Some of my kind guildies sent me a few items in mail to get me going and I started working on my WW. Same city. Same Faction (imperial ed) pretty much same anything.

My NB WW had no problems using the stores. The exact same NPC's were willing and able to sell to him.

Did my business and decided to check out changing my stage on me Sorc.

Switched back, went into the world and had a few Wormies and Maomer for lunch and dinner, walked back into the same town and could not use the vendors on my vampire.

I would chime in and say it takes, what 2 1/2 hours to get from full stage 1 to stage 4? I could see some populations being ascared of vampires and WW.

Seems to me a lot of the Bosmer population is tacitly ok with WW-Hunters so long as they are socially responsible in town and defend the forest from all who would invade (and eat flowers).

Based on past games (Morrowind in particular) I could see where some Telvani towns and some mage guild facilities are quite ok with socially responsible vampires.

I would like to have vampire quest-lines and stories as well as ones for people with the gift of Hurcine.

I could even see some factions and areas being willing to issue "permits" though the fighters guild and mages guild where one swears to only use your affliction for the good of the Dominion/Covenent/Pact. Like programs where convicted criminals can serve in the army.

Of course being stage 4 in public or transforming in the city limits is going to get you arrested and you going to have to have your day in court to show you are a friends of the queen/king/tribunal/etc and the permit is not fake.

If one just can not behave and just has to follow that NPC who just told you the only thing worse then High Elves (the milk drinkers they are) is Orcs just as you walk by, well just dont get caught - wait till night and be very stealthy. Let him think that mark on his neck is from a lust wench (or at least that is what he will tell people) buy you and he will know he'd been paid back. Well if your going to be like that - you should be able and there should be justice even for drunk nords.

Inversus

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

Vampires should be able to feed on npcs, which results in a penalty - but just being a vampire shouldn't be penalised imo.

Since they are all about being after our bodily fluids, they should be penalized even if they do not suck someone's blood at the moment.
Besides, it's not like they somehow accidentaly became bloodsuckers. It was their choice to run around yelling "WTB vamp bite", so they must stand just punishment.

No rule against liking blood as long as you don't take it, of course
There was that vamp in rivenspire who was doing pretty well...

Also bear in mind that if there are other players hunting us werewolves/vamps it's going to be really annoying since they'll of course be coming equipped with silver bolts and fire...

Nox_Aeterna

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

I do believe in the summit notes on the foundry they mentioned the user will have the ability to opt-out of the justice system when in towns to prevent things from happening accidentally. With that, I can see them implementing consequences for vampirism and lycanthropy since, if you didn't want that to happen, you'd be able to opt-out.

If you can opt out , then i agree this would be a good idea for those that want it. More options is usually good.

But if you cant opt out , then i remain against this idea. Being forced into PvP because you are vamp would be quite annoying.

Elf_Boy

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

Vampires should be able to feed on npcs, which results in a penalty - but just being a vampire shouldn't be penalised imo.

Since they are all about being after our bodily fluids, they should be penalized even if they do not suck someone's blood at the moment.
Besides, it's not like they somehow accidentally became bloodsuckers. It was their choice to run around yelling "WTB vamp bite", so they must stand just punishment.

I can assure you, with all sincerity and complete and total honesty. Neither of my two vampire or my so far single werewolf have nor will any of my other charters put anything in zone chat - or else where - asking for a financial transaction to acquire the, er, gift.

I suspect before all 8/16 of my characters are all 50+ I will have caught the blessed disease naturally for at least one more Vamp and WW.

To be clear, I am in a very good guild and getting blessed is something one politely asks for and as soon as anyone's 'bite' is up one is dragged before the appropriate alter and consumed by the transformation.

While on Vamp/WW topics. Who else would like to have our blessed ones be able to go back to the area where we quested? It seems like those areas should be accessible to the 'Kin' from then on.

Seravi

Having a few vamps I think it would be interesting if you are say level four vamp that when you go into town you are treated as an enemy. Same for WW just like in Skyrim. I always loved turning into a WW and having the town freak out! To me it just seems right to have this balance in the game. If you are going to be a vamp or WW then there should be a down side to it, not just in passives or skills but in the game world itself.

MornaBaine

Okay ZoS it's Monday...feel free to jump in here and answer this.

naatokb14_ESO

They'd better be part of the justice system. At least stage 4 vampires better be!

Cherryblossom

As the game already has Vampires in the Storylines living normal lives, I do not see an issue.
If said Vampire feeds on an inocent and gets spotted I would assume the Justice system will kick in.
A werewolf running round town should probably be attacked purely on the basis that they choose werewolf (what were they thinking!)

Merlin13KAGL

Shouldn't have to be a choice to enforce or rebel.

Bring back fame/infamy rating. Let character decisions be reflected in your character's character. Think alignment, for the D&D types out there.

It's also the difference between presence and action. Feeding is a lot different than just being there.

I'm quite ok with it, either way, but if we're going to have guards 'respond' to environmental cues, brandishing a weapon or summoning a familiar should have the same consequence for non-gifted types.

(Did I say 'non-gifted?' What I really meant was 'You're special too...')

After all, I don't want my meal to taste funny.

Ragefist

Unfortunately ZOS seems to follow "convenience over immersion" on this.

My werewolf did save fort attacked by werewolves and manage even to peacefully talk to NPCs all IN WEREWOLF FORM

Why is that? We can already switch off werewolf form on demand, but damn lets make it a bit easier for players. All the coolnes in, no brainwork necessary, enjoy the ESO werewolf

starkerealm

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

I do believe in the summit notes on the foundry they mentioned the user will have the ability to opt-out of the justice system when in towns to prevent things from happening accidentally. With that, I can see them implementing consequences for vampirism and lycanthropy since, if you didn't want that to happen, you'd be able to opt-out.

If you can opt out , then i agree this would be a good idea for those that want it. More options is usually good.

But if you cant opt out , then i remain against this idea. Being forced into PvP because you are vamp would be quite annoying.

If you can opt out, something like the Dawnguard, or maybe actually the Dawnguard itself (since we don't have a hard and fast timeline for when it was established) would be a pretty great open world PvP mechanic. You have players actively hunting participating vampires, while you have vampires actively hunting Dawnguard players.

Not necessarily as an extension of the justice system, but as a parallel intersecting system.

If the vampires have a way to conceal their nature, and Dawnguard players are left trying to sort out who is or isn't a Vampire, with the option to try to "out" players they think are vampires. If it is a vampire, but isn't flagged for PvP, no harm no foul, if it's a vampire, the Dawnguard player can enter them into a... book of grudges back at their base, which lets Dawnguard members update their PvP opponents list. But if it's not, then the Dawnguard player looses standing (somehow).

Meanwhile, vampires are free to hunt the Dawnguard players. With the knowledge that if their victim survives and gets away, they'll be exposed.

Ragefist

Sounds great. Tho I would suggest rather a joint operation between dawnguard and silver hand. Or simply expanding fighters guild since they are already involved

BBSooner

I really hope it's added. There currently is a built in choice already to exempt yourself from flagging yourself: cure you're affliction. This is coming from a person with characters with both vampirism and hircine's gift. These are optional skill trees, nothing wrong with them having specific rules for the upcoming systems, especially when it makes sense and has precedent in the previous TES.

Give a "criminal underground" wayshrine/banking/crafting in each capitol city to provide a safe alternative and make everywhere else fair game. As of now, in pve especially, the vulnerability to fire is mostly a "are you bad and can't dodge red circles" check - there should be more of a reason for me to not make the rest of my characters vampire. Having to actually feed and manage interactions is a preferred (and appreciated) trade off instead off instead of blanket vulnerabilities.

MornaBaine

So, a question about the justice system... will it involve only players (ergo, PvP) or will there also be NPC involvement (PvE) such as guards attacking "criminals" and negative reasctions from other NPCs like townies and vendors?

Nox_Aeterna

MornaBaine wrote: »

So, a question about the justice system... will it involve only players (ergo, PvP) or will there also be NPC involvement (PvE) such as guards attacking "criminals" and negative reasctions from other NPCs like townies and vendors?

If nothing changed, then at first you should have to deal with PvE guards for a while until eventually your bounty gets high enough and players enter with pvP to kill you.

I was happy when he said you can just chose to not take part at all on the system , but since i didnt see those news myself , im not sure that is how they intend to make it. (even if i had seen it , considering it is zen and they like to change their minds about stuff , i would believe when i see it ingame)

starkerealm

MornaBaine wrote: »

So, a question about the justice system... will it involve only players (ergo, PvP) or will there also be NPC involvement (PvE) such as guards attacking "criminals" and negative reasctions from other NPCs like townies and vendors?

There's a PvE element for both sides. Criminals have the ability to snuff most NPCs, and steal things from people. When they do that they'll have to get past the town guards.

Enforcers will have special PvE dungeons they have access to, where they'll raid smuggler's dens, and recover stolen goods. Which they can then hand over to their order for goodies. The systems are, however, primarily PvP ones.

MAOofDC

Elf_Boy wrote: »

I am not so sure there are not now consequences...

No doubt a bug in the game but..... Yesterday before bed I decided to catch up on some crafting. Get research going and all that.

As random or not so random change would play out my two primary crafter's are a female Dunmer Sorc Vampire and a male Bosmer NB WW.

I was also stage 4 on the vampire when I logged on. I could not get any guild vendor - including at the bank - to sell me anything. Hitting "D" resulted in a blank page no matter what/where.

Some of my kind guildies sent me a few items in mail to get me going and I started working on my WW. Same city. Same Faction (imperial ed) pretty much same anything.

My NB WW had no problems using the stores. The exact same NPC's were willing and able to sell to him.

Did my business and decided to check out changing my stage on me Sorc.

Switched back, went into the world and had a few Wormies and Maomer for lunch and dinner, walked back into the same town and could not use the vendors on my vampire.

I would chime in and say it takes, what 2 1/2 hours to get from full stage 1 to stage 4? I could see some populations being ascared of vampires and WW.

Seems to me a lot of the Bosmer population is tacitly ok with WW-Hunters so long as they are socially responsible in town and defend the forest from all who would invade (and eat flowers).

Based on past games (Morrowind in particular) I could see where some Telvani towns and some mage guild facilities are quite ok with socially responsible vampires.

I would like to have vampire quest-lines and stories as well as ones for people with the gift of Hurcine.

I could even see some factions and areas being willing to issue "permits" though the fighters guild and mages guild where one swears to only use your affliction for the good of the Dominion/Covenent/Pact. Like programs where convicted criminals can serve in the army.

Of course being stage 4 in public or transforming in the city limits is going to get you arrested and you going to have to have your day in court to show you are a friends of the queen/king/tribunal/etc and the permit is not fake.

If one just can not behave and just has to follow that NPC who just told you the only thing worse then High Elves (the milk drinkers they are) is Orcs just as you walk by, well just dont get caught - wait till night and be very stealthy. Let him think that mark on his neck is from a lust wench (or at least that is what he will tell people) buy you and he will know he'd been paid back. Well if your going to be like that - you should be able and there should be justice even for drunk nords.

I think this may be the answer. The JS will most likely be a money sink like it was in the other TES games.

MornaBaine

Okay now I'm annoyed. This question is showing as "answered" when I have NOT accepted any of the answers here. ZoS staff, PLEASE fix this!

MornaBaine

ZoS, PLEASE fix this so it no longer shows as "answered" when it is not.