Dear Zos, Solo Play?

bellanca6561n

GreySix wrote: »

As a counterpoint to the OP, name me one other AAA MMO that forces solo play in the main quest.

IMO, this game is a solo player's paradise, as grouping mechanics in this MMO is among the worst I've seen.

• Want to group in the main quest? Pound sand!
• Want to group for the Fighters Guild quests? Pound sand!
• Want to group for the Mages Guild quests? Pound sand!

Guess turn-about is fair play in the veteran levels, when players are all but forced to group. Its as though ZOS wanted to be equal-opportunity at irritating all types of players.

It would be a simple enough algorithm to scale instances to the number of players, facilitating choice for players who either wanted to solo or group. Plenty of other MMOs have pulled it off.

But we'll never see it here. /rant

Often said, but not better said.

I think everyone agrees that the term massively multiplayer either doesn't apply here or the genre is holding onto an acronym that no longer literally applies, much as the NAACP does.

But to answer the core question, what makes an online game last is the group play. This is why stand alone games come out in installments every few years offering 20-40 hours of play each, yet online games can last for over a dozen or more, continually offering hundreds of hours if not thousands.

And the finest online games created over the past 30 years had neither story nor quests nor levels except to teach the game perhaps. Sadly, though, these were not the most popular.

But popular they are and, thus, they keep getting made. And, like most stand alone games, when you're done with the prepared story, you're done as a solo player. The economics of refreshing your level 1-50 experience at a rate that would match your demand for them doesn't work out.

It's a pity really. I truly enjoyed my 1-50 experience, three times. I'd like to do that again with fresh quests. As an online game, though, I've found it less entertaining and see your point of view quite well.

WraithAzraiel

Psychobunni wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Where are these numbers that back up your claims of solo players being the largest group (irony) of players taking part in ESO?

Show me the numbers from a reputable source and I'll admit I'm wrong, publicly in this thread.

Every single poll done on these threads regarding why/how people play.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/133226/what-type-of-player-are-you-in-eso/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131291/which-aspect-of-the-game-do-you-mostly-play-pvp-or-pve#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132107/what-do-i-want/p1

Key word in my statement is REPUTABLE. A heavily skewed player driven poll to harp on a point they'd like to drive home is in NO way a reputable source.

The first poll's options are awful, basically asking if you're a roleplayer or not.

Your middle link can be thrown out entirely as it has nothing to do with solo vs group. If this were an argument for PvP vs PvE, I'd allow it.

The third poll is the only one in even in the vein of what we're discussing and it's not big enough.


Regardless, community driven polls aren't really a reputable source. It's biased at best.

How many people on the forums see a poll and flat out refuse to open the thread? How much of the player base avoids the toxicity of the forums like the plague?

However, if you were to link me a study done by ZOS market analysts or a third party, I'd take that. Forum polling isn't good numbers.

At most around 100 people voted in each of those polls. Not large enough of a sample size.

But good try.

WraithAzraiel

Psychobunni wrote: »

@‌magnusnet

Look you guys(mmo means group crowd) can argue that the sky is purple simply because you say so, all day, every day. You can ignore that every single time its brought up in the forums its proven that the sky is in fact blue no matter your screaming its purple until you have lost your voice. Reality is still Reality.

And at the moment that reality is there is no solo(non group or pvp) options from V10 to V14 in the games current set up, and until ESO actually brings it to the game instead of some vague announcement of "sometime in the future" people will complain for it in game. Especially so because this is a subscription game.

Edit: I would add that if every single content update since launch had been solo content, you would see just as many complaints in this forum in reverse.

So what you're pointing out is that people are going to [snip] no matter what. I agree with you there.

There does need to be a balance of solo and group content BUT who are we to dictate to ZOS when it should come out? They've got people for that and we ain't it.

There's been only 4 updates. Everyone needs to just be patient.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments and on Cursing & Profanity]

Skizer78

It really is crazy how people keep calling this game an MMO when clearly the videos that they created before the game came out expressed that it was a single player online game with multiplayer capabilities. It is sad that they have seemed to stray from that concept when they brought out Craglorn and I am hoping that things change for the better, because the many times I have been in Craglorn I have been disappointed with how I will never get to enjoy the storyline that they have created there.

AlnilamE

What would you guys think of having a solo version of the group dungeons? You would have to tell the dungeon on entry that you are doing it solo and it would scale to the player's level (if the player is above the level of the mobs, otherwise it would be mob level). It would be tough and you would have to do it on your own.

Or maybe have a different quest line in those dungeons that can only be played solo?

Elvent

People seem to think that just because MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online, means it is only one play style and that's group content, you're wrong.

MMO really means many players in an online game, it doesn't mean required group content, it doesn't mean only grouping allowed to be able to progress.

There should be content for all play styles, if people want solo content then that's fine, that's how they like to play the game then why does that bother you?

Inb4 "play a single player game!" No, I like MMOs and I like solo content in MMOs, I also like meeting other players in MMOs but that doesn't mean I'm required to group with them either, I also like seeing worlds more lively with other players and I like seeing cities filled with people, something single player games don't give, not even Skyrim.

I like grouping when I feel like it. I mostly avoid group content because of all the rude in a rush type players, you can't even enjoy the game or take your time and explore because of these types of players, those types of players ruin the fun, I wanted to experience the rest of the dungeons and see what they were like but I guess I came into the game too late because all I get in these groups are the people I'm describing so I gave up and I will probably never experience the rest or see what they're like.

But these types of players will also tell us that we ruin their fun...lol, as if rushing and putting down other players is "fun", horrible people, I guess they would find that fun. So basically there's two different play styles and both need catering too. If they're only going to add hard mode group content then I plan on leaving, if they do add some more solo content then I'll stay and support the game.

I think this is one of the reasons WoW has millions of subscribers, they may have lost a few million but come on...they have around 6-7 million players at the moment? That's insane but I think the reasons WoW is so successful is because there's something for every play style, there's so much solo content to do, there's a lot of fun content, not to mention a lot of easy content too...scenerios? I love those and find them fun.

I meet people all the time in WoW that say they're solo players, I think people underestimate the size of solo players in MMOs. People also like to hate on WoW too, I guess because it's so popular and it's the cool thing to do these days. But I do admit I haven't played WoW in the past 4 months due to burn out of no new content and I have been playing ESO instead, doing the same thing over and over for months and months can get boring.

ESO is still new and they keep adding content so I'm hoping they'll eventually get there and add some end game solo content, I just hope they don't forget about us since they never talk about us...it's always some hard mode group content.

Grunim

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I might recommend giving Cyrodiil a try as there are almost 50 daily PVE quests there

Which are unusable if you loathe PVP and want nothing to do with it. For players like me there are no PVE dailies.

If you play on the NA megaserver and your alliance is AD, you can join a campaign like Haderus which AD completely dominates and do nothing but PvE content and never ever see an enemy player.

Nestor

Posting this from a closed thread:

Being in a group is a real pain and fun at the same time.

Pain because the group may want to move slower or faster than I do. Pain because I may forget something at the beginning of the dungeon and need to go back, but I feel bad about dragging everyone else along with me. Pain because I may not be in sync with what the others in the group want. Pain because after I finish a dungeon I may want to quit the game for a while, eat some dinner, then start to play again, the group is not going to wait around for me to do that. Pain because while I usually play around the same time each day, I don't want to have to view the game as an appointment I need to keep just to support the group.

Now, grouping can be a lot of fun. The best are the ones that just sort of happen, where a player comes along and we start to sync up our attacks and moves and things just work. I also like helping others in a battle, and I like getting help in some battles. Can have some nice chats with people in the group.

However, making content that is only grouped or only solo is not the answer. Make it so that if a group enters the dungeon, then it's scaled to a group instance. If someone enters the dungeon by themselves, then it's a public dungeon where anyone can enter the same instance and fight with, or along side of, or completely away from others that are in there. Just like it is now for most PvE dungeons.

olsborg

Agree with OP. I want more solo content

Voodoo

ok for sake of argument lets just say you have no problem grouping most of the time for endgame stuff but decide you're tired of always needing to group at VR12-14 and want to solo (specially if you want to level solo VR 12 and up) what can you do to level solo at VR12?

I am not there yet but I dont have the time for raids/groups I want to log on and level for a hour and log off. Is there anyway I can do that solo at VR12-14? ...and I dont want to just farm one mob over and over.

This is all this OP is asking. A option to do endgame content alone. (Because we dont always want to have to be grouped to gain levels)

Khami

21 out of 22 PvE zones are designed for solo play. The only zone that's PvE that designed for grouping is Craglorn. That's a lot of solo play.

Nox_Aeterna

Khami wrote: »

21 out of 22 PvE zones are designed for solo play. The only zone that's PvE that designed for grouping is Craglorn. That's a lot of solo play.

:P people lvl , that simple.

The reason MMOs have endgame is exactly because they know people will reach max lvl but they want those players to still remain playing so they give them something to repeat and chase.

ESO solo gameplay ends at VR10 , that means outside the fact the games already lacks that kind of carrot on a stick for solo players even if they were vr14 , ZEN manages to be so good at design that they fail to even get their solo players to max lvl.

Ofc one can say they want to focus on players that like all content (can only be it since they force solo lvling and force groups on endgame lols , they manage to *** both groups) , but that also means to bleed all the players that mostly want only part of your content.

Which is what they are doing now and they are going to even more and more with time :P.

That solo endgame zone will take its time to arrive like everything else zen does and the more it takes , the more solo playrs who will just give up on the game because there is nothing to do and zen doesnt even care to get their players to max lvl lols.

LonePirate

Khami wrote: »

21 out of 22 PvE zones are designed for solo play. The only zone that's PvE that designed for grouping is Craglorn. That's a lot of solo play.

And the one PVE zone designed for group play contains hours and hours of questing and delve content which is largely ignored by group players as they devote their time to the Arena and Trials. What's the point of creating group content if the player base won't play it? Should ZOS create more of this group content that won't be played or should they create content for the solo/duo players who are eagerly awaiting more content.

Psychobunni

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

So what you're pointing out is that people are going to [snip] no matter what. I agree with you there.

There does need to be a balance of solo and group content BUT who are we to dictate to ZOS when it should come out? They've got people for that and we ain't it.

There's been only 4 updates. Everyone needs to just be patient.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments and on Cursing & Profanity]

Haha, yes to pre-snip (or what I assume it said). That is reality, especially when people are paying for the game. Which by no means is a go F2P argument either (before someone implies).

It really gains nothing everytime someone posts an OP regarding solo play for the more hardcore group enthusiasts to attempt to shame by "go play Skyrim, its an MMO and that means Group or die, etc"....that behavior itself is part of what turns people off from grouping to begin with....... I mean we are all here together PVP-PVE-GRP, no matter our individual reasons. We should allow each other the benefit of voicing our frustrations without having I'm right, you're wrong arguments all the time. That includes myself and will endeavor to do so in the future.

Khami

LonePirate wrote: »

Khami wrote: »

21 out of 22 PvE zones are designed for solo play. The only zone that's PvE that designed for grouping is Craglorn. That's a lot of solo play.

And the one PVE zone designed for group play contains hours and hours of questing and delve content which is largely ignored by group players as they devote their time to the Arena and Trials. What's the point of creating group content if the player base won't play it? Should ZOS create more of this group content that won't be played or should they create content for the solo/duo players who are eagerly awaiting more content.

One of the next zones is designed for solo play.

Since update 4 more people are questing in Craglorn. Most still do one of the boring grinds, but more and more people in zone chat are grouping up to do quests. You have to finish the lower story before finishing the upper.

Too many people in this game are refusing to group. That's part of the problem. They won't make everything in the future for solo play only. They can't. It will upset those wanting to group and raid.

Evandus

Khami wrote: »

21 out of 22 PvE zones are designed for solo play. The only zone that's PvE that designed for grouping is Craglorn. That's a lot of solo play.

I'm not sure that's completely accurate. For example, you seem to be leaving out Group Dungeons ( Public and Instanced), World Bosses, etc. Granted, much if not all of it can be done solo. Yet this isn't how the playerbase approaches this by and large. Or soloing that content being something that the majority of players can accomplish with their preferred builds.

The problem with Craglorn to me is when you combine it with level cap raises, trials, and now Arena - the content is largely ignored. Most groups I've been aware of that run any of the content are ones farming xp. Hircine being a good example. So you have a ton of content that doesn't get played save guilds and lucky pick up groups. The content itself has some pretty significant barriers that thwart soloing for I'd guess the overwhelming majority of the playerbase. This, without even factoring in known lock out mechanisms that require 4 players to be there (on the same quest stage simultaneously) to advance.

R1ckyDaMan

Instances = forced grouping , Open World = Casual grouping.

The way it should be.

Lorgend

Lizelle wrote: »

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. MMOs are for grouping. If you have to be able to leave at any time play a game you can pause, E.G. a single player game

i agree with you mate. i love grouping and this is why a game is called mmo. But what happens when i hit vr14 the day the update 4 goes out and i STILL havent found a group to make trials? yes i am vr14 since update 4 and still haven't done even 1 trial. is it cuz i dont want? no its because the community these days have a bad habit of asking for achievements in chat before they invite you to group. and the few times i found a group for trials i got kicked when i told them guys this is my first time in trials. so i am sorry mate but solo content is necessary when the community in this game is so so bad and antisocial...

Soloeus

This thread is full of trolls insulting "Solo Players" and this also reveals the Zenimax stance.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/133638/solo-players-youre-telling-me/p2
^
This thread, in which Solo Players return our own arguments. It was closed. This thread, which mostly consists of Anti-Solo Players bashing Solo Players was left opened.

WraithAzraiel

Psychobunni wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

So what you're pointing out is that people are going to [snip] no matter what. I agree with you there.

There does need to be a balance of solo and group content BUT who are we to dictate to ZOS when it should come out? They've got people for that and we ain't it.

There's been only 4 updates. Everyone needs to just be patient.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments and on Cursing & Profanity]

Haha, yes to pre-snip (or what I assume it said). That is reality, especially when people are paying for the game. Which by no means is a go F2P argument either (before someone implies).

It really gains nothing everytime someone posts an OP regarding solo play for the more hardcore group enthusiasts to attempt to shame by "go play Skyrim, its an MMO and that means Group or die, etc"....that behavior itself is part of what turns people off from grouping to begin with....... I mean we are all here together PVP-PVE-GRP, no matter our individual reasons. We should allow each other the benefit of voicing our frustrations without having I'm right, you're wrong arguments all the time. That includes myself and will endeavor to do so in the future.

Oh absolutely, I agree - telling people to go pound sand brings nothing to the debate whatsoever. Which is why I will forever tell people to just be patient.

I agree with solo'ers, you guys haven't gotten much in the way of content, but it is coming - just not as swiftly as anyone would like.

Soloeus

The problem is not a "lack" of Solo Play.

The problem is that Solo Play stops yielding rewards at V10 but Group Content gives rewards all the way up to V14.

The solution is Solo Content with V11-V14 monsters which drop Loot within that level range.

theyancey

Solo PvE players have been told to go elsewhere. Therefore on 11-8 I will.

Aoife32001

Lizelle wrote: »

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. MMOs are for grouping. If you have to be able to leave at any time play a game you can pause, E.G. a single player game

You fail to take into account that this is also an Elder Scrolls game, and, in that vein, attracts a large number of solo players. If ZoS doesn't also pay attention to them, ESO will lose a large player base.

Dayel

The group content in this game is so far out of proportion to the players who wish to play in groups that it is a shame. Believe it or not most of us like to do things on our own. A MMORPG is a massive game but nowhere in that description is there anything about having to group. The idea that you have to group is erroneous. And complaining about the amount of group content versus solo is perfectly valid.

Stratti

While it is good to be innovative ZOS tried to reinvent the MMO wheel and really messed there game up.

After 10 years of WoW I have watched what a real MMO does . Put it simply it caters to the masses while still keeping content for the hardcore . It allows for solo play but reserves the best gear for group and raid.

Update 4 is a disappointment . We were promised a new upper craglorn which is more like a new valley and a village. No new vet dungeons . 1 trial that to be honest is looking like it is too hard for most - our group I think has had enough of it already. I see others hitting up AA and HC instead. Then we get confirmation that veteran arena drops V13 as well with the occasional v14. Veteran Arena is super fun but the replayability is hardly there.

So brings me back to me. 5 days left and will I stay or will I go. Really nothing much to do. Not heaps of people around and even guildies have dropped off so maybe not. Maybe a return to WoW for warlords (but I sold my account and will have to start again) or maybe no more MMO . Certainly I can't see this improving any time soon.

Khami

Aoife32001 wrote: »

Lizelle wrote: »

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. MMOs are for grouping. If you have to be able to leave at any time play a game you can pause, E.G. a single player game

You fail to take into account that this is also an Elder Scrolls game, and, in that vein, attracts a large number of solo players. If ZoS doesn't also pay attention to them, ESO will lose a large player base.

ZoS took the biggest nerf sledgehammer they could find and nerf the crap out of the VR zones because they were too hard to solo.

Now, I can round out several groups of mobs and mow then down without too much problem. There is zero challenge to a solo player.

Does every solo player want to face-roll everything? I know I don't.

Vahrokh

Khami wrote: »

21 out of 22 PvE zones are designed for solo play. The only zone that's PvE that designed for grouping is Craglorn. That's a lot of solo play.

Never mind those 21 zones are meant to last 1 month, the last one for the rest of the lifetime...

Theosis

I don't care about steamrolling.. I don't care how easy the solo play is I just want to be able to play without looking for a group.

I'm reading so much hate for the solo player playing an MMO. What is wrong with wanting to be able to reach max level without running around in huge groups killing bosses.

I want to quest, not kill the same boss 14 times in an hour.

Zorrashi

Khami wrote: »

Aoife32001 wrote: »

Lizelle wrote: »

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. MMOs are for grouping. If you have to be able to leave at any time play a game you can pause, E.G. a single player game

You fail to take into account that this is also an Elder Scrolls game, and, in that vein, attracts a large number of solo players. If ZoS doesn't also pay attention to them, ESO will lose a large player base.

ZoS took the biggest nerf sledgehammer they could find and nerf the crap out of the VR zones because they were too hard to solo.

Now, I can round out several groups of mobs and mow then down without too much problem. There is zero challenge to a solo player.

Does every solo player want to face-roll everything? I know I don't.

Now, now don't derail the thread. This is about solo players and their apparent willingness to participate in ESO. Enough of them are apparently around that Zenni feels the need to give them what they want half of the time.

I say, the more they can keep both soloers and groupers, the better. After all, that means more subs right?

Stratti

Anyone who hates on someone wanting solo play in an MMO is frankly misguided and a little confused.

MMO has nothing to do with being grouped all of the time . In fact a big reason why many people are leaving is outside of Arena and Trials there is nothing now to do. Arena isnt cutting the mustard and Trials is just tuned too hard with lazy kill whole raid and tank mechanics that is back to the stack and burn except its stack and heal

MMO needs good group play, good pvp , good 'raid' but we cannot be grouped all the time - so we need something to do when Solo

We told ZoS this many times over the last 6 months. Sad to see they ignored us

Ignore your fan base at your peril maybe thats why this game never cracked the 1million sub mark making it below some pretty niche games