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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/

If a player CURES full vampirism/lycanthropy, should it be a permanent decision on THAT character?

  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    I can't see why a cure woud make you immune to the condition.

    There's some lore examples that do though. The Vampire cure in Morrowind leaves the player immune to future infections. I can't remember if the Oblivion cure was repeatable or not. I only ever had one vampire in that game. In Skyrim the easiest way to cure lycanthropy is to get Serana to munch on you and then cure your newfound vampirism.
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    Here is my explanation for my 'no' vote.
    If my fellow vampires (or our lycan counterparts) are seriously interested in controlling the population, then WHY do so many of us *** out the gifts of our Daedric tainted blood?!?! (and I say 'us' as a whole, not because I do this).

    It is an absolute DISGRACE that ANY vampire or lycan would bestow the Dark Gift or the Wolf's Bite to someone they do not even know....for PAY!!!

    Speaking purely from a vampire roleplayer perspective, this is [snip], and it turns the Shrine of Mother Lamae into a BROTHEL!!!

    So if you're seriously concerned about the number of vampires and werewolves in the game, and the cheapening of these Daedric gifts/curses.....IT IS TOO LATE!

    Pimps and *** have spread the disease far and wide on greased palms, giving our blessings to THE UNWORTHY!!!

    It sickens me as a player, and my characters as bretheren of the Black Blood, that other vampires are little more than prostitutes! And I know there are many prostitute lycans out there as well!

    Nothing wrong with being a prostitute. :S

    [Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]
    Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on September 22, 2014 3:12PM
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • Vuron
    Vuron
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    Unfortunately, my opinion doesn't matter on this issue.

    You're fighting a losing battle if you're trying to have "consequences" or "repercussions" for actions of this player base. Welcome to the "I want" or "It's not fair" crowd.
    Edited by Vuron on September 22, 2014 2:54PM
  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    BBSooner wrote: »
    Despite the bias I voted, vampirism can be contracted and cured an unlimited amount of times in the TES universe, why would ESO be different?

    Well lets not forget the ability to do so was in a game premise that solely revolved around you, and your decisions therein also ONLY affected you. In this case we are speaking of a situation where it is possible for there to be thousands of vampires.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

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  • Daraugh
    Daraugh
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    No. Death in a game isn't a "final cure." If you die as a WW or vamp and don't rez, then it would count as a cure as per the OP's RP opinion. Just start over from scratch! Or bite ;) Few people enjoy that kind of investment for an RP payoff, I certainly don't.
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  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    Another thing players/posting peers aren't considering, is that its for this very reason of the game being liable to go through future changes that some permanence needs to extend to these two classes. Lets say that in the future playing as a vampire truly becomes ***, what then? Making it easy for players to now flock to the nearest blood ritual shrine (with a friend), and cause an otherwise avoidable epidemic would be a bad move on the devs, is not cool at all, and will give cause for players to believe this game is just becoming a vamp/ww fest.

    Despite future changes..... If a player has already exhausted their opportunity to stay a paranormal by having taken the cure, just knowing that they would have to make a new character in order to experience and benefit from the new changes might deter them from even bothering, therefore the population of vamps/ww is more likely to stay reasonable. Of course its always possible players will choose the prerogative to make that new character, but there aren't many who would because the game is already big as it is, and steadily expanding.

    I think making curing permanent is not bad at all in high-sight. It would actually improve the experience.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    Another thing players/posting peers aren't considering, is that its for this very reason of the game being liable to go through future changes that some permanence needs to extend to these two classes. Lets say that in the future playing as a vampire truly becomes ***, what then? Making it easy for players to now flock to the nearest blood ritual shrine (with a friend), and cause an otherwise avoidable epidemic would be a bad move on the devs, is not cool at all, and will give cause for players to believe this game is just becoming a vamp/ww fest.

    Despite future changes..... If a player has already exhausted their opportunity to stay a paranormal by having taken the cure, just knowing that they would have to make a new character in order to experience and benefit from the new changes might deter them from even bothering, therefore the population of vamps/ww is more likely to stay reasonable. Of course its always possible players will choose the prerogative to make that new character, but there aren't many who would because the game is already big as it is, and steadily expanding.

    I think making curing permanent is not bad at all in high-sight. It would actually improve the experience.

    Why do we care what the pop of wws and vamps is? It's not like they actually prowl the countryside feeding off of people and murdering them. lol
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    This is a game that will hopefully go on for years. Rebalancing will happen from time to time, You're suggesting that just because I started as a werewolf, then became a vampire, that I should never be allowed to become a werewolf again on that character? Even 4 years from now when werewolves are dominating (speculation)? So my option, if I wish to become a werewolf at that time is to abandon a 4 year old toon and start from scratch, pun intended.

    That's a huge no. I really don't think you gave this much thought at all other than from a RP standpoint. In a game such as this, lore and RP can be a factor, but overall balance and player satisfaction should always drive design decisions first.

    I'm actually not suggesting anything. I'm asking a question.

    It's a legitimate answer though. Right now, werewolves are underwhelming. I find them a lot of fun, but I can certainly see where, for some players, they're just not enjoyable.

    With vampires, you're taking on some very specific build choices by getting infected. If you ever change your mind, especially because a nerf or meta shift screws you, your choices would be to assume things would never get better or shelve that character until the game was fixed.

    So, no. It's not a good idea at all.

    What would you do if being, say, a Templar was an unenjoyable class? You'd have to deal right? Or at the very least submit a report or forum post addressing the issue of that particular class being sub-par or broken, but ZoS is not all of a sudden going to allow you to pick an entirely new class. This is no different, except that ZoS is not treating them (vamps and ww) like actual classes, but they should.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    Another thing players/posting peers aren't considering, is that its for this very reason of the game being liable to go through future changes that some permanence needs to extend to these two classes. Lets say that in the future playing as a vampire truly becomes ***, what then? Making it easy for players to now flock to the nearest blood ritual shrine (with a friend), and cause an otherwise avoidable epidemic would be a bad move on the devs, is not cool at all, and will give cause for players to believe this game is just becoming a vamp/ww fest.

    Despite future changes..... If a player has already exhausted their opportunity to stay a paranormal by having taken the cure, just knowing that they would have to make a new character in order to experience and benefit from the new changes might deter them from even bothering, therefore the population of vamps/ww is more likely to stay reasonable. Of course its always possible players will choose the prerogative to make that new character, but there aren't many who would because the game is already big as it is, and steadily expanding.

    I think making curing permanent is not bad at all in high-sight. It would actually improve the experience.

    Why do we care what the pop of wws and vamps is? It's not like they actually prowl the countryside feeding off of people and murdering them. lol

    I actually agree with what you said, but this post was inspired by those that are concerned with the vamp/ww population, believing that its ruining their game experience or think it makes pvp unfair in some way. So this is more so for them.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    Vuron wrote: »
    Unfortunately, my opinion doesn't matter on this issue.

    You're fighting a losing battle if you're trying to have "consequences" or "repercussions" for actions of this player base. Welcome to the "I want" or "It's not fair" crowd.

    You might be right, but it doesn't hurt to try.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • heavy_artillery
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    I'm torn. I don't care from a player's perspective what others do as far as switching back and forth, but from an immersion pov, does it make sense someone could go from infected to cured to infected with one or the other or both? Maybe? It doesn't sit well with me lore-wise
    @Bluenotebacker in-game, NA Server
  • Kreetar
    Kreetar
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    the idea you propose seems somewhat restrictive, and if there's anything people don't want in games like these, it's restriction.
    dip me in the blood of mortals and throw me to the Dremora

  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    Kreetar wrote: »
    the idea you propose seems somewhat restrictive, and if there's anything people don't want in games like these, it's restriction.

    That's why the games like these end up very unbalanced.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • starkerealm
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    Actually it is a class, do your homework.

    Man, I would freakin' love that. Three vampire skill lines? Three werewolf skill lines? Seperate progression so you can define what kind of a 9ft tall snarling deathbeast you are? That sounds amazing.

    ...oh... Roar and Pounce... uh... yay? :(
  • Elf_Boy
    Elf_Boy
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    If nothing else, the pole results reflect on a small scale just how much of the population don't really role-play and based on a real life perspective, don't want anything to be limited. And for anybody that couldn't understand why there are so many vampires and werewolves, you are witnessing it right now. :wink:

    In MMOs and probably many other games, most people always want the "edge" before they'll stand their ground and hold their position. It means that people are always "dying" to be stronger even if that means they have to jump from the proverbial cliff of something they originally wanted, so that they can fall in to something they probably don't need, regardless of the impact.

    Some day they will make a game FOR roleplayers... Someday....
    *insert sad, long suffering sigh here* :(

    NcSoft closed it two years ago.
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  • Elf_Boy
    Elf_Boy
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    Just because OTHER people go get cured does not mean YOU can/should/will get cured.

    You are free to role play with in the system.

    I know of no pen and paper game system where a good gm would not allow a player to become cured - or functional - after a vamp/lycan bite - to be cured, and infected again if that is going to help the player of sad character enjoy the game.

    I know some people want more permanence.

    http://wizardryonline.wikia.com/wiki/Wizardry_Online_Wiki

    Little too permanent for me.

    Well - I guess they were a little too hard core -- out of business this year.
    Edited by Elf_Boy on September 22, 2014 5:11PM
    ** Asus Crosshair VI Hero, Ryzen 1800x, 64GB DDR4 @ 3000, GTX 1080 ti, 4K Samsung 3d Display m.2 Sata 3 Boot Drive, m.2 x4 nvme Game Drive **
  • AlexDougherty
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    I can't see why a cure woud make you immune to the condition.

    There's some lore examples that do though. The Vampire cure in Morrowind leaves the player immune to future infections. I can't remember if the Oblivion cure was repeatable or not. I only ever had one vampire in that game. In Skyrim the easiest way to cure lycanthropy is to get Serana to munch on you and then cure your newfound vampirism.

    The Oblivion cure was repeatable, but Ok for the Morrowind cure.
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  • FreedomDude
    FreedomDude
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    I mean curing the full condition, meaning they are a full fledged vampire and or werewolf. However, after being cured they can still contract the disease, but it only causes negatives to their stats rather than giving the opportunity to be turned again. This could also control the population of vamps and werewolves. It would add a sense of realism for many, and ultimately make a player want to be sure of their choice. I think it also will stress these are dark gifts not easily acquired and should be taken "seriously".

    @Ethromelb14_ESO‌, if you offered more choices, you might get more poll results, even adding a simple 'Yes' or 'No.'

    On that, I vote 'No.' There are many factors involved here. I expect, at some point, they will expand the line. Being unable to foresee that, people should not be banned from the option later. Perhaps a more difficult quest to reacquire and 'Prove your worth," etc.

    If it is to be the way your suggest, then longevity should produce more power (a fairly normal benefit in vamp related lore.) Generally, the longer you've had the gift, the worse your negative become, but the greater your benefits.

    And I'm not talking short term regarding Stages or L1-10.

    A vamp of two weeks was to be feared. A vamp of 100 years was a force to be reckoned with, respected by the greatest monster hunters that would dare tread nearby, and normally given a very wide berth.


    And yet I annihilated Harkon when I was just a fledgling.

    Harkon was a joke, he just jumps around then hides in some red bubble... XD
    Here is my explanation for my 'no' vote.
    If my fellow vampires (or our lycan counterparts) are seriously interested in controlling the population, then WHY do so many of us [snip] out the gifts of our Daedric tainted blood?!?! (and I say 'us' as a whole, not because I do this. I most certainly do not).

    It is an absolute DISGRACE that ANY vampire or lycan would bestow the Dark Gift or the Wolf's Bite to someone they do not even know....for PAY!!!

    Speaking purely from a vampire roleplayer perspective, this is [snip], and it turns the Shrine of Mother Lamae into a BROTHEL!!!

    So if you're seriously concerned about the number of vampires and werewolves in the game, and the cheapening of these Daedric gifts/curses.....IT IS TOO LATE!

    Pimps and *** have spread the disease far and wide on greased palms, giving our blessings to THE UNWORTHY!!!

    It sickens me as a player, and my characters as bretheren of the Black Blood, that other vampires are little more than prostitutes! And I know there are many prostitute lycans out there as well!

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

    I don't think those players selling their bites care...

    But we were all bitten by a feral, or someone who was also bitten by a feral. Except for me, somehow I ended up with Vampirism in Coldharbour (I'm not making that up, lol).
    Edited by FreedomDude on September 23, 2014 11:17AM
  • Nox_Aeterna
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    Im usually against any permanent choice in a MMO.

    When you make a game that you want people to play for years , it is usually a bad idea to not allow them to change their character.

    The day they become bored of their char , it is the day you lose a player.
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
    -Hanlon's razor
  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    Anything with its own Ultimate Ability is either a class or sub class, but make no mistake, it is a class of some type.

    Vampires/Werewolves - The world/sub class that is acquired in the open world, and available to all playable races.
    - Vampirism/Sanies Lupinus - The name of the contracted disease to become the class.
    - Vampire/Werewolf - The name of the skill line for the world sub-classes.
    - Vampirism/Lycanthropy - The terms used to identify the conditions being cured.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    I mean curing the full condition, meaning they are a full fledged vampire and or werewolf. However, after being cured they can still contract the disease, but it only causes negatives to their stats rather than giving the opportunity to be turned again. This could also control the population of vamps and werewolves. It would add a sense of realism for many, and ultimately make a player want to be sure of their choice. I think it also will stress these are dark gifts not easily acquired and should be taken "seriously".

    @Ethromelb14_ESO‌, if you offered more choices, you might get more poll results, even adding a simple 'Yes' or 'No.'

    On that, I vote 'No.' There are many factors involved here. I expect, at some point, they will expand the line. Being unable to foresee that, people should not be banned from the option later. Perhaps a more difficult quest to reacquire and 'Prove your worth," etc.

    If it is to be the way your suggest, then longevity should produce more power (a fairly normal benefit in vamp related lore.) Generally, the longer you've had the gift, the worse your negative become, but the greater your benefits.

    And I'm not talking short term regarding Stages or L1-10.

    A vamp of two weeks was to be feared. A vamp of 100 years was a force to be reckoned with, respected by the greatest monster hunters that would dare tread nearby, and normally given a very wide berth.


    What other choices would you suggest? I honestly thought I covered everything? I'm open to choice suggestions.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    ...
    It sickens me as a player, and my characters as bretheren of the Black Blood, that other vampires are little more than prostitutes! And I know there are many prostitute lycans out there as well!

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

    Prostitutes as individuals that provide infectious disease in exchange for pay.

    Seems about right.

    I am fine with players being able to be reinfected.
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • LunaRae
    LunaRae
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    If this was a static game then sure. But preventing any change on a character in a living, breathing world that is full of bugs and gets changed / updated would be ridiculous. Like when the werewolf changes get published, there will be a huge influx of players who actually want to try werewolf again. Seems like this suggestion only benefits RP'ers, huge impact on game-play though.
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  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    LunaRae wrote: »
    If this was a static game then sure. But preventing any change on a character in a living, breathing world that is full of bugs and gets changed / updated would be ridiculous. Like when the werewolf changes get published, there will be a huge influx of players who actually want to try werewolf again. Seems like this suggestion only benefits RP'ers, huge impact on game-play though.

    In a way I wanted to see just how much of the community were RPG-ers. Apparently not many lol.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • helediron
    helediron
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    No because things change - FoTM. The new Arena burns. It's so hot there on the last wave that as a rehabilited x-vamp, i wear my fire resist ring.
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • Aett_Thorn
    Aett_Thorn
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    LunaRae wrote: »
    If this was a static game then sure. But preventing any change on a character in a living, breathing world that is full of bugs and gets changed / updated would be ridiculous. Like when the werewolf changes get published, there will be a huge influx of players who actually want to try werewolf again. Seems like this suggestion only benefits RP'ers, huge impact on game-play though.

    In a way I wanted to see just how much of the community were RPG-ers. Apparently not many lol.

    No, you wanted to see how many people wanted to RP it JUST the way that you did. Other people don't need your arbitrary restrictions in order to RP. I can RP many ways around the current system.
  • BBSooner
    BBSooner
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    BBSooner wrote: »
    Despite the bias I voted, vampirism can be contracted and cured an unlimited amount of times in the TES universe, why would ESO be different?

    Well lets not forget the ability to do so was in a game premise that solely revolved around you, and your decisions therein also ONLY affected you. In this case we are speaking of a situation where it is possible for there to be thousands of vampires.

    That doesn't change the lore surrounding the disease. Precedent is set that there isn't an existing immunity (unless you're already afflicted with the opposite disease) so by lore there is no reason for this to not happen.
    Edited by BBSooner on September 23, 2014 1:38AM
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    I mean curing the full condition, meaning they are a full fledged vampire and or werewolf. However, after being cured they can still contract the disease, but it only causes negatives to their stats rather than giving the opportunity to be turned again. This could also control the population of vamps and werewolves. It would add a sense of realism for many, and ultimately make a player want to be sure of their choice. I think it also will stress these are dark gifts not easily acquired and should be taken "seriously".

    @Ethromelb14_ESO‌, if you offered more choices, you might get more poll results, even adding a simple 'Yes' or 'No.'

    On that, I vote 'No.' There are many factors involved here. I expect, at some point, they will expand the line. Being unable to foresee that, people should not be banned from the option later. Perhaps a more difficult quest to reacquire and 'Prove your worth," etc.

    If it is to be the way your suggest, then longevity should produce more power (a fairly normal benefit in vamp related lore.) Generally, the longer you've had the gift, the worse your negative become, but the greater your benefits.

    And I'm not talking short term regarding Stages or L1-10.

    A vamp of two weeks was to be feared. A vamp of 100 years was a force to be reckoned with, respected by the greatest monster hunters that would dare tread nearby, and normally given a very wide berth.


    And yet I annihilated Harkon when I was just a fledgling.

    To be fair, the Dragonborn is a demigod in Skyrim. Maybe in the lore across the board, but in Skyrim specifically the player can do things that would flat out slay mortal characters, like playing with Keening.
  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
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    BBSooner wrote: »
    BBSooner wrote: »
    Despite the bias I voted, vampirism can be contracted and cured an unlimited amount of times in the TES universe, why would ESO be different?

    Well lets not forget the ability to do so was in a game premise that solely revolved around you, and your decisions therein also ONLY affected you. In this case we are speaking of a situation where it is possible for there to be thousands of vampires.

    That doesn't change the lore surrounding the disease. Precedent is set that there isn't an existing immunity (unless you're already afflicted with the opposite disease) so by lore there is no reason for this to not happen.

    I suppose you're right. I can agree to that point.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
  • Ethromelb14_ESO
    Ethromelb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aett_Thorn wrote: »
    LunaRae wrote: »
    If this was a static game then sure. But preventing any change on a character in a living, breathing world that is full of bugs and gets changed / updated would be ridiculous. Like when the werewolf changes get published, there will be a huge influx of players who actually want to try werewolf again. Seems like this suggestion only benefits RP'ers, huge impact on game-play though.

    In a way I wanted to see just how much of the community were RPG-ers. Apparently not many lol.

    No, you wanted to see how many people wanted to RP it JUST the way that you did. Other people don't need your arbitrary restrictions in order to RP. I can RP many ways around the current system.

    No, I said it the way I meant it. I have no reason to lie. Spare me your criticism; I brought none your way. Practice respect, so you don't have to be disrespected.
    Motto: Make deceivers believers.

    Strength of character is not a physical thing. -E
    Walking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E

    An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E

    The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E

    I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.
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