If a player CURES full vampirism/lycanthropy, should it be a permanent decision on THAT character?

Ethromelb14_ESO

I mean curing the full condition, meaning they are a full fledged vampire and or werewolf. However, after being cured they can still contract the disease, but it only causes negatives to their stats rather than giving the opportunity to be turned again. This could also control the population of vamps and werewolves. It would add a sense of realism for many, and ultimately make a player want to be sure of their choice. I think it also will stress these are dark gifts not easily acquired and should be taken "seriously".

Varicite

In a MMO, permanent choices like this are impeded largely by changing game mechanics, which a player cannot foresee or control.

Thus, I vote no. : )

ers101284b14_ESO

Sometimes you feel like a vamp, sometimes you don't,

redspecter23

This is a game that will hopefully go on for years. Rebalancing will happen from time to time, You're suggesting that just because I started as a werewolf, then became a vampire, that I should never be allowed to become a werewolf again on that character? Even 4 years from now when werewolves are dominating (speculation)? So my option, if I wish to become a werewolf at that time is to abandon a 4 year old toon and start from scratch, pun intended.

That's a huge no. I really don't think you gave this much thought at all other than from a RP standpoint. In a game such as this, lore and RP can be a factor, but overall balance and player satisfaction should always drive design decisions first.

MornaBaine

I voted yes. I know a lot of people who get cured then come back...and it just makes no sense. The whole idea of vampirism and lycanthropy as being tragic curses is because the conditions are FOREVER. Irrevocable. Final DEATH is your "cure." The ease with which the game lets you flip flop back and forth really cheapens them in my view.

Ethromelb14_ESO

redspecter23 wrote: »

This is a game that will hopefully go on for years. Rebalancing will happen from time to time, You're suggesting that just because I started as a werewolf, then became a vampire, that I should never be allowed to become a werewolf again on that character? Even 4 years from now when werewolves are dominating (speculation)? So my option, if I wish to become a werewolf at that time is to abandon a 4 year old toon and start from scratch, pun intended.

That's a huge no. I really don't think you gave this much thought at all other than from a RP standpoint. In a game such as this, lore and RP can be a factor, but overall balance and player satisfaction should always drive design decisions first.

I'm actually not suggesting anything. I'm asking a question.

Ethromelb14_ESO

Yes I believe that there can afford to be a certain level of permanency in the game despite the possibility of future changes to the mechanics of the game, and especially since these are not natural classes similar to that of Dragon Knight and such. And if the decision were made permanent, I don't feel as though it would hurt the game in any way because people are making alts all the time.

timidobserver

Vampire and WW are a huge liability in some PVE content so no people should not be stuck with it.

Ethromelb14_ESO

If nothing else, the pole results reflect on a small scale just how much of the population don't really role-play and based on a real life perspective, don't want anything to be limited. And for anybody that couldn't understand why there are so many vampires and werewolves, you are witnessing it right now.

In MMOs and probably many other games, most people always want the "edge" before they'll stand their ground and hold their position. It means that people are always "dying" to be stronger even if that means they have to jump from the proverbial cliff of something they originally wanted, so that they can fall in to something they probably don't need, regardless of the impact.

AlexDougherty

I can't see why a cure woud make you immune to the condition.

MornaBaine

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

If nothing else, the pole results reflect on a small scale just how much of the population don't really role-play and based on a real life perspective, don't want anything to be limited. And for anybody that couldn't understand why there are so many vampires and werewolves, you are witnessing it right now.

In MMOs and probably many other games, most people always want the "edge" before they'll stand their ground and hold their position. It means that people are always "dying" to be stronger even if that means they have to jump from the proverbial cliff of something they originally wanted, so that they can fall in to something they probably don't need, regardless of the impact.

Some day they will make a game FOR roleplayers... Someday....
*insert sad, long suffering sigh here*

kitsinni

In a game that changes direction every month and skills change, combinations no longer work etc there is no way they should even think about making it permanent.

For a sense of realism the way being a vampire or werewolf works can't keep changing they have to have some consistency.

Ethromelb14_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

I voted yes. I know a lot of people who get cured then come back...and it just makes no sense. The whole idea of vampirism and lycanthropy as being tragic curses is because the conditions are FOREVER. Irrevocable. Final DEATH is your "cure." The ease with which the game lets you flip flop back and forth really cheapens them in my view.

Perfectly said.... I agree. Yeah it is silly to today feel like being a vamp/wolf, and then tomorrow be like "I feel like being human today."

Aett_Thorn

As for a role-play reason, both the condition and the cure are sort of "divine" conditions. And much like you can change religions in real life if you want to, you could choose to side with Hircine, realize that you were wrong, get cured, and then years later, go back and seek his embrace again. Why wouldn't he welcome you back?

BBSooner

Despite the bias I voted, vampirism can be contracted and cured an unlimited amount of times in the TES universe, why would ESO be different?

kitsinni

I'm curious what does the lore say about a vampire abilities that the "gods" feel is too powerful and just change or the werewolf lore say about werewolf abilities that are dog poo (pardon the pun) then later become more powerful magically because the "gods" decided to add something to them?

Sorry this isn't Twilight or a vampire movie it is a game that changes constantly. Even though this is an "elder scrolls" game it hates RP. You just have to kind of be ok with that. You can't make permanent decisions when everything about the decision is going to change drastically.

Ethromelb14_ESO

redspecter23 wrote: »

This is a game that will hopefully go on for years. Rebalancing will happen from time to time, You're suggesting that just because I started as a werewolf, then became a vampire, that I should never be allowed to become a werewolf again on that character? Even 4 years from now when werewolves are dominating (speculation)? So my option, if I wish to become a werewolf at that time is to abandon a 4 year old toon and start from scratch, pun intended.

That's a huge no. I really don't think you gave this much thought at all other than from a RP standpoint. In a game such as this, lore and RP can be a factor, but overall balance and player satisfaction should always drive design decisions first.

Not necessarily. In order to make a game fun it needs to first be considered from a RP standpoint. The problem that many developers fail to incorporate in their games is how other players DECISIONS, not just actions such as in combat will also affect their peers. For example I know there are many players out there that hate it when other players name themselves something stupid like Mr. Giggles in an MMO with a medieval atmosphere. And it has been proven that ZoS understands this to an extent by not allowing players to make all types of weird shades of color with the new dye system. Why? Because seeing someone in all hot pink armor (whether their a female or not) just looks stupid and out of place. And if ES is going to allow itself to be considered the pinnacle of medieval RPGs, well then they have to take themselves seriously to a certain extent too. And they can start by making people have to except and deal with their choices in certain things.

Realism with the hint of fantasy to be more than you are in real life is the key to a successful game; not having the option to flip-flop between decisions every chance that's gotten. People will always complain about something, but that doesn't mean developers should just roll over and make everything easy for them, because even with curing being the way it currently is people are still complaining.

Whisper292

There's no black and white, even in the real world, and especially in roleplay. I'm in one guild where a group of radical priests of Arkay are trying to force cures. It has been speculated that if a cure was forced on one of us, that someone else in the clan could just turn them again. Switching back and forth by choice might be cause for other considerations, but you never know what will come up with game mechanics and roleplay. I vote no.

Ethromelb14_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

If nothing else, the pole results reflect on a small scale just how much of the population don't really role-play and based on a real life perspective, don't want anything to be limited. And for anybody that couldn't understand why there are so many vampires and werewolves, you are witnessing it right now.

In MMOs and probably many other games, most people always want the "edge" before they'll stand their ground and hold their position. It means that people are always "dying" to be stronger even if that means they have to jump from the proverbial cliff of something they originally wanted, so that they can fall in to something they probably don't need, regardless of the impact.

Some day they will make a game FOR roleplayers... Someday....
*insert sad, long suffering sigh here*

I know right? One day..... *sigh*

Ethromelb14_ESO

Whisper292 wrote: »

There's no black and white, even in the real world, and especially in roleplay. I'm in one guild where a group of radical priests of Arkay are trying to force cures. It has been speculated that if a cure was forced on one of us, that someone else in the clan could just turn them again. Switching back and forth by choice might be cause for other considerations, but you never know what will come up with game mechanics and roleplay. I vote no.

I understand what you're saying, but once again I stress that this reflects the wish -wash approach taken by most gamers, since many only want what will put them closest to God mode. Veteran MMO players like myself know that there is nothing perfect in the game outright and with the right leveling style, just about anything can be made powerful. And whether or not things will change in the future for this game, it DOESN'T change the fact that it's the wish-wash approach that contributes to ruining the supposed balance in any game.

Also its a fact that being a vamp and ww are classes just like the others, but you can not go back and change your class from NB to a DK or Sorcerer. So why should you be able to do it with these paranormal ones? No one thinks that that's lopsided?

Ethromelb14_ESO

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I can't see why a cure woud make you immune to the condition.

It's because from a RP aspect the cure would be coursing through your character's veins, making it impossible to ever become a full blown vamp/ww again, but you can still become sick from the disease.

Aett_Thorn

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I can't see why a cure woud make you immune to the condition.

It's because from a RP aspect the cure would be coursing through your character's veins, making it impossible to ever become a full blown vamp/ww again, but you can still become sick from the disease.

But this is YOUR RP interpretation of the cure. There is absolutely nothing stopping anybody else from coming up with an RP reason for going back and forth every week.

Heck, a WW could say that his condition really does track with the moon, and during the new moon, he doesn't have the condition at all (cures himself completely), but as it approaches a full moon, his condition reappears (gets bitten again).

RP can do many wonderful things, and allows people to come up with all sorts of reasons for in-game changes.

Divinius

Varicite wrote: »

In a MMO, permanent choices like this are impeded largely by changing game mechanics, which a player cannot foresee or control.

Thus, I vote no. : )

This thread was basically over after this first post.

You can't force permanent decisions in a game where the rules can change at any time, thus rendering those choices sub-optimal.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Whisper292 wrote: »

There's no black and white, even in the real world, and especially in roleplay. I'm in one guild where a group of radical priests of Arkay are trying to force cures. It has been speculated that if a cure was forced on one of us, that someone else in the clan could just turn them again. Switching back and forth by choice might be cause for other considerations, but you never know what will come up with game mechanics and roleplay. I vote no.

wut?

Game mechanics > roleplay every time. That shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Roleplay that they become lesser versions or something like that.

this is coming from someone who played 6 years on an rp mandatory MUD, (3 years player, 3 years admin.)

Roleplay is all about working with what you have, and improvising. do that.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Not necessarily. In order to make a game fun it needs to first be considered from a RP standpoint.

No. This may be true for single player, rp heavy games, but this is a mainstream mmo and those always favor mechanics over rp.

Merlin13KAGL

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I mean curing the full condition, meaning they are a full fledged vampire and or werewolf. However, after being cured they can still contract the disease, but it only causes negatives to their stats rather than giving the opportunity to be turned again. This could also control the population of vamps and werewolves. It would add a sense of realism for many, and ultimately make a player want to be sure of their choice. I think it also will stress these are dark gifts not easily acquired and should be taken "seriously".

@Ethromelb14_ESO‌, if you offered more choices, you might get more poll results, even adding a simple 'Yes' or 'No.'

On that, I vote 'No.' There are many factors involved here. I expect, at some point, they will expand the line. Being unable to foresee that, people should not be banned from the option later. Perhaps a more difficult quest to reacquire and 'Prove your worth," etc.

If it is to be the way your suggest, then longevity should produce more power (a fairly normal benefit in vamp related lore.) Generally, the longer you've had the gift, the worse your negative become, but the greater your benefits.

And I'm not talking short term regarding Stages or L1-10.

A vamp of two weeks was to be feared. A vamp of 100 years was a force to be reckoned with, respected by the greatest monster hunters that would dare tread nearby, and normally given a very wide berth.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I mean curing the full condition, meaning they are a full fledged vampire and or werewolf. However, after being cured they can still contract the disease, but it only causes negatives to their stats rather than giving the opportunity to be turned again. This could also control the population of vamps and werewolves. It would add a sense of realism for many, and ultimately make a player want to be sure of their choice. I think it also will stress these are dark gifts not easily acquired and should be taken "seriously".

@Ethromelb14_ESO‌, if you offered more choices, you might get more poll results, even adding a simple 'Yes' or 'No.'

On that, I vote 'No.' There are many factors involved here. I expect, at some point, they will expand the line. Being unable to foresee that, people should not be banned from the option later. Perhaps a more difficult quest to reacquire and 'Prove your worth," etc.

If it is to be the way your suggest, then longevity should produce more power (a fairly normal benefit in vamp related lore.) Generally, the longer you've had the gift, the worse your negative become, but the greater your benefits.

And I'm not talking short term regarding Stages or L1-10.

A vamp of two weeks was to be feared. A vamp of 100 years was a force to be reckoned with, respected by the greatest monster hunters that would dare tread nearby, and normally given a very wide berth.

And yet I annihilated Harkon when I was just a fledgling.

TRIP233

I want my achievements for both then I'm going back to being a vamp. If I want to change my build then I want that option. If for some reason it is changed then I was Achievements to be account wide not character bound.

starkerealm

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

This is a game that will hopefully go on for years. Rebalancing will happen from time to time, You're suggesting that just because I started as a werewolf, then became a vampire, that I should never be allowed to become a werewolf again on that character? Even 4 years from now when werewolves are dominating (speculation)? So my option, if I wish to become a werewolf at that time is to abandon a 4 year old toon and start from scratch, pun intended.

That's a huge no. I really don't think you gave this much thought at all other than from a RP standpoint. In a game such as this, lore and RP can be a factor, but overall balance and player satisfaction should always drive design decisions first.

I'm actually not suggesting anything. I'm asking a question.

It's a legitimate answer though. Right now, werewolves are underwhelming. I find them a lot of fun, but I can certainly see where, for some players, they're just not enjoyable.

With vampires, you're taking on some very specific build choices by getting infected. If you ever change your mind, especially because a nerf or meta shift screws you, your choices would be to assume things would never get better or shelve that character until the game was fixed.

So, no. It's not a good idea at all.

MornaBaine

TRIP233 wrote: »

I want my achievements for both then I'm going back to being a vamp. If I want to change my build then I want that option. If for some reason it is changed then I was Achievements to be account wide not character bound.

I'm fairly certain that achievements ARE account wide. I only have one vampire character yet ALL my characters can wear both the black and white dyes tied to having a vampire.

naatokb14_ESO

Here is my explanation for my 'no' vote.
If my fellow vampires (or our lycan counterparts) are seriously interested in controlling the population, then WHY do so many of us [snip] out the gifts of our Daedric tainted blood?!?! (and I say 'us' as a whole, not because I do this. I most certainly do not).

It is an absolute DISGRACE that ANY vampire or lycan would bestow the Dark Gift or the Wolf's Bite to someone they do not even know....for PAY!!!

Speaking purely from a vampire roleplayer perspective, this is [snip], and it turns the Shrine of Mother Lamae into a BROTHEL!!!

So if you're seriously concerned about the number of vampires and werewolves in the game, and the cheapening of these Daedric gifts/curses.....IT IS TOO LATE!

Pimps and *** have spread the disease far and wide on greased palms, giving our blessings to THE UNWORTHY!!!

It sickens me as a player, and my characters as bretheren of the Black Blood, that other vampires are little more than prostitutes! And I know there are many prostitute lycans out there as well!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]