How come 2h weapons don't count as 2 pieces of a set?

AreoHotah

It takes up 2 slots so...? Every time I switch from dual-wield to bow I loose precious weapon power from my 5 set Hunding's rage set. Wouldn't that make stamina builds more viable aswell??

Cheers.

Mondo

2 Weapons 2 Boni! 1 Weapon 1 Boni! 2 Weapons double the cost of mats thats the price and thats why i dont want other to have the same boni

Sharee

AreoHotah wrote: »

It takes up 2 slots so...? Every time I switch from dual-wield to bow I loose precious weapon power from my 5 set Hunding's rage set. Wouldn't that make stamina builds more viable aswell??

Cheers.

A side note - you should make your 5 set on items that are not swapped out. When i am making a combination of 2 sets, 5 pieces of set 1 go to armor, and 4(or 3) pieces of set 2 go to remaining armor and weapons. That way you never lose the 5-set bonus due to swapping.

Also, when possible, make sure the bonus you lose due to swapping is not a HP bonus, because then swapping back and forth essentially damages you for the value of that bonus(you are 2000/2000 with +100 bonus, swap, you are now 1900/1900 without bonus, swap back, now you are 1900/2000, essentially you took 100 damage).

AshySamurai

I dont think that it will make a really big change to stam builds, but if 2h weapons will provide 2 items bouns it will boost not only 2H and bow, but all staffs too. Do we need it or not - that is the question.

Rodario

I've been thinking about suggesting this recently.

If you have 2x 1h in your other bar, here's what I do:

Set 1 - 1 weapon / 4 armor
Set 2 - 2 weapon / 3 armor

Since my bars are for entirely different uses, so are the sets. Just so happens that the 3 and 4 piece set bonuses are more of a general nature, so they are still useful for the other bar.

Westnovote

An alternative would be to adopt a standard MMO approach to two-handed weapons, where stats are added to the weapon to compensate. LOTRO, for example, gave two-handed weapons considerable stat increases to retain parity between dual-wield and two-handed builds.

KhajitFurTrader

Westnovote wrote: »

An alternative would be to adopt a standard MMO approach to two-handed weapons, where stats are added to the weapon to compensate. LOTRO, for example, gave two-handed weapons considerable stat increases to retain parity between dual-wield and two-handed builds.

Lore-masters could dual-wield a 2H staff and a 1H sword when properly traited (in other words, no LM worth his salt left home without it, ever). Which is one of the reasons why in the LM forum other classes were only referred to as "Lore-master support classes", and rightly so.

But seriously, the "standard approach" might not work here, because in contrast to other MMOs, every class is free to choose what weapon to use in ESO.

Counting a 2H weapon as two pieces of a set would overpower them further, especially staves, adding even more to an already (too) high allure. If you want true equality, only one weapon out of a dual-wield set-up should count toward a set bonus. But then the users of those would feel penalized. So it's probably best to leave it as it is.

AreoHotah

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Westnovote wrote: »

An alternative would be to adopt a standard MMO approach to two-handed weapons, where stats are added to the weapon to compensate. LOTRO, for example, gave two-handed weapons considerable stat increases to retain parity between dual-wield and two-handed builds.

Lore-masters could dual-wield a 2H staff and a 1H sword when properly traited (in other words, no LM worth his salt left home without it, ever). Which is one of the reasons why in the LM forum other classes were only referred to as "Lore-master support classes", and rightly so.

But seriously, the "standard approach" might not work here, because in contrast to other MMOs, every class is free to choose what weapon to use in ESO.

Counting a 2H weapon as two pieces of a set would overpower them further, especially staves, adding even more to an already (too) high allure. If you want true equality, only one weapon out of a dual-wield set-up should count toward a set bonus. But then the users of those would feel penalized. So it's probably best to leave it as it is.

Well I already feel penalized. I have a 5 piece hunding and 4 piece ashen with the duall daggers and everything is great. When I switch to my bow thou..
Its not. And you look at the damage of a bow and one of a dagger, both same lvl, the damage is the same so its not really fair.
It makes you think twice about changing to the bow in a battle and I hate it.

MorHawk

Agreed, this is another obvious fix that stuns me they haven't implemented yet.

Merlin13KAGL

AreoHotah wrote: »

It takes up 2 slots so...? Every time I switch from dual-wield to bow I loose precious weapon power from my 5 set Hunding's rage set. Wouldn't that make stamina builds more viable aswell??

Cheers.

For the same reason you cannot use 2H passives/skills on your two handed Bow/Staff...?

It's not even considered a 2H weapon that way...just a weapon that requires 2H. figure that one out.

You should be able to get double set piece bonus and double enchantment/trait bonus, as well.

AngryNord

Why? It is still only one weapon

MorHawk

AngryNord wrote: »

Why? It is still only one weapon

Doy. Thanks for explaining the painfully obvious reality. The point is that 2H weapons are being handicapped for no reason other than the apparent challenge of coding them to count as two slots.

Arsenic_Touch

While it would be great for 2h melee weapons and bows, it would make staves more OP. They don't need any more set bonuses for stave users. I would support the idea if there wasn't already a disparity between staves and other weapons.

MorHawk

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

While it would be great for 2h melee weapons and bows, it would make staves more OP. They don't need any more set bonuses for stave users. I would support the idea if there wasn't already a disparity between staves and other weapons.

Just as with any other examples though (stamina DPS skills, Reflective Scale etc), the presence of one problem should not prevent the resolution of another.

Gillysan

7 armor slots
1 or 2 hand slots
3 Jewelry slots

Put 5 set bonus on the armor
With what is left you either get 3/5 or 4/5. You don't miss much at all.

You can get another 5/5 if you go dropped sets with the jewelry. Which I never will do because I craft every craftable slot. Maybe other people prefer the dropped sets bonuses.

I think just a small tweak to a 2H base damage is all that is needed. Maybe also a set's bonus percent increase of 20% when using a 2H would be fair. (1/5 = 20%) This would have to be tested so that it doesn't become OP.

The other slightly unfair design is that a shield gives a normal (full) enchant bonus. This is to armor enchants though, not weapon. Leave the weapon enchant as is or you gimp S&B too much. Slightly boost the 2H weapon enchant effect or allow 2H weapon to slot an armor+weapon enchant.

Ultimately the real fix will be to introduce jewelry making and allow crafters to complete sets that way.

Selodaoc

Agreed.
Weapons that takes up 2 slots should have twice the setbonuses and statbonuses

Gillysan

Selodaoc wrote: »

Agreed.
Weapons that takes up 2 slots should have twice the setbonuses and statbonuses

Twice the set bonuses? - I most certainly do not agree with that part. Sets have 5 effects and each piece that adds to the set unlocks another effect. Thus DW gets 2/5 towards unlocking a sets full potential. A 2H is 1/5th a full set. The difference between DW and 2H is 1/5th, which is no where close to "twice".

Twice stats? x2 is probably too much, this would require testing. The enchant is a different animal though.

MorHawk

Gillysan wrote: »

Twice stats? x2 is probably too much, this would require testing. The enchant is a different animal though.

Why, exactly? a 1H weapon in each of the two weapon slots would yield two set bonuses. Why then is it fair that a 2H weapon, dealing comparable damage to those two 1Hers, should be penalized one of those two set bonuses simply because of their choice of weapon?

Dagoth_Rac

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You should be able to get double set piece bonus and double enchantment/trait bonus, as well.

Agree about 2H weapon counting as two items toward a set bonus, and that 2H weapon should get bigger enchantment. However, I think traits *are* doubled on 2H weapons. At least, I have 1H + S as primary and Resto Staff as secondary, with Sharpened on both. The Sharpened trait is like 10% on the staff but only 5% on the sword. Or maybe it is 6% on the sword? Anyway, the traits do seem to scale up for 2H versus 1H.

Gillysan

MorHawk wrote: »

Gillysan wrote: »

Twice stats? x2 is probably too much, this would require testing. The enchant is a different animal though.

Why, exactly? a 1H weapon in each of the two weapon slots would yield two set bonuses. Why then is it fair that a 2H weapon, dealing comparable damage to those two 1Hers, should be penalized one of those two set bonuses simply because of their choice of weapon?

I explained it already /facepalms
2 weapons = 2/5th of a set
1 weapon = 1/5th of a set

2/5 - 1/5 = 1/5th, the difference between DW and 2H

Jackets_Fan

If they ever come out with a very large set (9-10+) I would have to side with OP and say that it should count as more than 1. But it's not needed at this point.

redspecter23

They could add a passive to the 2h line that reads something like "when you have a 2 handed weapon equipped, it counts as 2 items for purposes of set bonuses"

In this way, it doesn't effect staves at all, there is at least some cost for gaining the ability, and you don't need to dabble in the whole doubling everything aspect of the weapon.

As far as I know, some bonuses are doubled on all weapons which require both hands such as training. You get double the bonus.

MorHawk

Gillysan wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

Gillysan wrote: »

Twice stats? x2 is probably too much, this would require testing. The enchant is a different animal though.

Why, exactly? A 1H weapon in each of the two weapon slots would yield two set bonuses. Why then is it fair that a 2H weapon, dealing comparable damage to those two 1Hers, should be penalized one of those two set bonuses simply because of their choice of weapon?

I explained it already /facepalms
2 weapons = 2/5th of a set
1 weapon = 1/5th of a set

2/5 - 1/5 = 1/5th, the difference between DW and 2H

Yes. Oy. Painful. I get that. Again, thank you for explaining the painfully obvious reality. That does not however answer my question. How is it fair that DW gets an extra set bonus?

Gillysan

You mean 1/5th of a set bonus and 1 - 4 are small generalist effects and it's the 5th one that is the real difference maker. My view is that it's not that big of a difference. I'm also still assuming they will eventually release jewel crafting. You can still get a 2nd complete 5 set bonus if you use dropped items. In any scenario right now you will never get three complete 5-set bonuses.

Going into more detail, I just don't think it's as simple to fix. How would you craft a 2nd sets characteristics into the same weapon? I don't know if that would be all that easy for them to pull off. Also I like things not to be so linear. I prefer they introduce more complexity into deciding what gear to use, there should be pluses to a decision but also minuses. Usually in games DW is higher dps, 2H is better aoe, S&B is more survivability.

Currently if you go two 2H, that is only two purple quality items. DW you might need 4 purple items.

Could go on but I think it deviates from the main discussion. So I go back to all you are losing is 1 generalist effect, not much more at this time. A little tweaking to make it fair, which the devs may think they have already addressed.

MorHawk

Gillysan wrote: »

<snip>

That's a whole lot of words for "I don't think it's that important".

Merlin13KAGL

Leave it as it is...

But offer quarter-staves which give half the damage but get the benefits of both lines (and the 2 pieces of set as a side effect).

I know...I know. Staves rule the world already and all Sorcs are OP.

(There, saved you the trouble.)

DW, at present, can effectively have four different elemental or enchantment attacks via two weapons, and that's before the set bonuses.

Get crit chances for all four, as well.

delarb14_ESO

I would like to try a ice staff tank warden but having 2nd handed staves count as only 1 item for item sets makes this not practical. I would like to see 2hd weapons count as two items for set count purposes.

Stovahkiin

delarb14_ESO wrote: »

I would like to try a ice staff tank warden but having 2nd handed staves count as only 1 item for item sets makes this not practical. I would like to see 2hd weapons count as two items for set count purposes.

Dude.. this thread was from 2014

Sigtric

Stovahkiin wrote: »

delarb14_ESO wrote: »

I would like to try a ice staff tank warden but having 2nd handed staves count as only 1 item for item sets makes this not practical. I would like to see 2hd weapons count as two items for set count purposes.

Dude.. this thread was from 2014

This guy has necro'd about 5 of these threads in the last 10 minutes.

Tryxus

delarb14_ESO wrote: »

I would like to try a ice staff tank warden but having 2nd handed staves count as only 1 item for item sets makes this not practical. I would like to see 2hd weapons count as two items for set count purposes.

Stovahkiin

Sigtric wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

delarb14_ESO wrote: »

I would like to try a ice staff tank warden but having 2nd handed staves count as only 1 item for item sets makes this not practical. I would like to see 2hd weapons count as two items for set count purposes.

Dude.. this thread was from 2014

This guy has necro'd about 5 of these threads in the last 10 minutes.

Yeah I just noticed it's the same dude. All he's accomplishing is giving the mods more threads to lock