Cherry Picking Rune farmers

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Proboscidea Elephantidae in the Antechamber: Enchanting is broke as hell.

I've been stuck at 33 FOREVER now. I have a $hit-ton of green/blue VR 5-7 glyphs in my inventory that I can't move for love or money.

Tried farming monumental glyphs, but they don't drop anywhere in Craglorn or Reaper's March that I can find. I'm Ebonheart Pact, by the way.

This thing is out of control.

Tarukmockto

I think the blind rune idea has a lot of merit. I would like to see it blind until it actually drops into your bag. The node simply says 'Rune', and after you gather it you can see what you got in your bag.

seanolan

LonePirate wrote: »

Calluna wrote: »

There are not separate nodes for aspect runes. At least I have never seen that and I farm a lot of runes.

I am not entirely convinced of this. The rune locations in Cyrodiil seem to be more static than the locations in the PVE zones. I will start paying more attention during my travels in Cyrodiil in the coming days.

Anyone with the harvest map add-on can tell you that you are 100% wrong. Any rune node can spawn any of the three types.

Pseudonym

I don't do enchanting on my main, and I don't have the storage space to hoard piles of runes for my alt, so I simply take either the ones I need or the ones that might sell for a decent amount.

That list includes Kuta. If I find any blues, purples or golds; I'll loot them. Everything else I leave for someone else.

Nestor

I am still picking up TA's as they can be used to grind some levels and use up some other runes that I don't need. However I will also leave some behind as someone else will need TA's to level their Enchanting. If they are hurt over this, then that is on them, not me.

And, if your coming across people who are farming ahead of you, then go another area and farm. It's not like Nodes are in only one place on the map.

Ourorboros

Thank you @Nestor and @Pseudonym for helping to make my point that there may be valid reasons for 'cherry picking' runes, or other nodes. Others may not like what you do, but that is their perception. As long as we play within ZOS code of conduct, everything is fair game. We are not playing "1984".

@milesrodneymcneely2_ESO, I don't know the zone progression for you since I'm DC, but Monumental glyphs will drop in only your very last/highest zone. For me, it is the Rift. However, Kude and Kura can be found in all of your last faction for sure, and I think maybe in all vet zones. Tips for advancing enchanting are posted in the forum, and web, but most important is get a trading partner. Trade those glyphs you can't sell.

Curragraigue

As others have said I'm happy to get any aspect rune. I will destroy something in my bag space to pick up any of them including ta.

I think like all of the other resources in the game the open PvE world includes an element of PvP competition it is first in first served. While it may annoy me if someone leaves a worm behind the fact is someone else got their first so I'll pick it up destroy it and keep looking for the next resource. Likewise with runes if someone else is farming an area and they get their first they get first dibs on whether they want something or not.

If it bothers you OP I would suggest going to another zone. I have picked up kuta on the starter island of my first alliance. All of the aspect runes are available in all of the zones so if the one you are in has too many 'cherry pickers' as you call them go to another zone.

Divinius

The point that so few people seem to get is that the problem is not that you only want to take the stuff you need (that's perfectly reasonable). The issue is that, because of the game's mechanics, by leaving the useless crap behind, you are also preventing the node from respawning into something useful. Basically, if everyone on the server did this, and only took the good stuff, eventually every node in existence would only have Tas and worms.

This isn't entirely the fault of the people leaving the garbage, as this could easily be prevented by a change in the game's mechanics as well. For example, if nodes despawned automatically a short time after being viewed by a player, they could respawn fresh.

People aren't asking others to clear a node because they want you to take things you don't want, they are asking them to clear the nodes so they can respawn fresh for others. Due to the (unfortunate) way the game works, taking only what you want becomes essentially "littering" the nodes. And like littering, if just one person does it, it's not horribly detrimental. But if everyone did it, we'd be knee-deep in garbage everywhere.

Leaving only the crap in nodes is understandable, but the game's mechanics cause an issue with that. Knowing this, and doing it anyway, is considered selfish by many people.

Ourorboros

I don't think the issue is about respawning nodes. That's a superficial excuse for trying to get other players to conform to certain expectations. And IMO it's based on a few issues of perception. Worms and certain runes are viewed as garbage, so leaving them in a node is "bad" behavior. Just because some people do not see the value in worms and Ta does not mean they have no value. Granted, Ta has less worth than Kuta, but it is not zero unless you choose it to be. If you are farming an area and don't clear the node, you deny yourself from the node respawning. The same is true of anyone who is farming an area. Any 'cherry-picker' who farms the same area is not a smart player. As far as nodes never respawning, I think the churn of logging in and out will reset the nodes, unless you can convince me that you always stay in the same area and never log out. Is it selfish to 'cherry-pick'? Maybe, but expecting others to conform to your ideal behavior is controlling, and I'll take selfish over controlling every time.

Divinius

I'm sorry, but the issue is entirely about node respawning (or the lack thereof). And no, logging in/out does nothing to crafting nodes. They don't work like containers do.

If someone goes through an area, and picks out everything except Tas, then all those Tas are going to sit there until someone else takes them, or they reboot the server (assuming that even resets them).

Once the nodes that did get picked respawn, if another person comes through and does the same thing, then all the previous Tas are still there, as well as all the new Tas that appeared during in the nodes that did respawn. So as I already explained, if everyone took the attitude of "I'm just going to leave all the Tas" then eventually every rune node will be a Ta.

And yes, some people may want the Tas. That's fine, except I'm sure that even those people don't want to get ONLY Tas every time they farm runes. Basically, the "cherry pickers" are relying on the other farmers that are willing to take their "garbage" to clean up after them. That's where it becomes selfish and rude.

Tarukmockto

This issue is really about common courtesy, much like holding the door for an elderly person at the bank. There's nobody waiting to arrest you if you don't hold the door. It's entirely up to you, hold the door or don't. Even if you choose to not hold the door, there's probably someone else who will anyway.

The same is true for the Ta's. If everyone in the game left Ta's we'd be at an impasse, but it won't happen. Someone else will take the Ta's anyway. It's just a courtesy if they do. No big deal either way.

Nightreaver

Ourorboros wrote: »

I don't think the issue is about respawning nodes. That's a superficial excuse for trying to get other players to conform to certain expectations. And IMO it's based on a few issues of perception. Worms and certain runes are viewed as garbage, so leaving them in a node is "bad" behavior. Just because some people do not see the value in worms and Ta does not mean they have no value. Granted, Ta has less worth than Kuta, but it is not zero unless you choose it to be.

Great idea, so all we have to do is convince the Cherry-Pickers to choose to give value to the garbage they leave so they won't leave them behind. But wait, wouldn't that just be an attempt to get other players to conform to your expectations? Stating that someone might find value in someone else's garbage is just a superficial attempt to excuse the bad behavior of the Cherry-Pickers.

Ourorboros wrote: »

If you are farming an area and don't clear the node, you deny yourself from the node respawning. The same is true of anyone who is farming an area. Any 'cherry-picker' who farms the same area is not a smart player.

True
However I believe most Cherry-Pickers are smart and don't stay to farm one area. They travel through an area, they see a node, if it's worth taking they keep it, if it isn't they move on. I think one of the reasons they leave garbage is because they won't be around for the respawn.

Ourorboros wrote: »

Is it selfish to 'cherry-pick'? Maybe, but expecting others to conform to your ideal behavior is controlling, and I'll take selfish over controlling every time.

So if someone is out on a killing spree I guess you would consider me selfish for being against that behavior saying that I am only against it because I don't want myself to be murdered.
And worse, I would be accused of trying to conform someone to my idea of ideal behavior.
A bit extreme? Perhaps, but the reasoning remains the same. Though some people may be leaving white runes and worms behind in the mistaken belief they are doing someone else a favor, you seem persistent in defending the actions of people who recognize them as garbage and still leave them behind for others.

Leaving Garbage
1) Most people do NOT want white runes and will probably just end up destroying the ones you leave behind anyway. And even the people taking white runes would prefer green, blue, purple or gold ones which they just might get if you had allowed the node to respawn.
2) Most people do NOT want worms or crawlers and will probably just end up destroying the ones you leave behind anyway. Yes, there are a very few people interested in worms but they are FAR outnumbered by the people harvesting those nodes for the actual item that the node represents. So in leaving the worms you are hoping for the very small chance that they will be harvested by someone who wants them vs. aggravating the much larger number of people who do not.
3) If you loot everything then the odds are good that it will respawn (hopefully with something more desired) before the next person comes along.
4) The ONLY aspect rune you will ever get from deconstructing a dropped Glyph is a white rune so there is already an overabundance of white runes in the market just from dropped Glyphs.

@milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
Do you have a guildmate that is also an Enchanter? If so you might ask if he/she would be willing to make you glyphs for decon if you provide the mats. You will get much better exp for leveling that way. That person will still get exp for making them and you will get much greater exp for deconstructing them than you do for making them.

@Nestor
Green Runes will give 4x the exp of white runes. If possible, I would avoid using white runes even for leveling. For me personally, I have found green runes to be the ideal choice for leveling.

Ourorboros

Everyone is paying to play this game, and as long as they maintain official code of conduct they are free to play however they see fit. If some players disapprove of another players legitimate actions, that is their own personal hang-up, even if a huge majority feels that way. People are also complaining about Bat Swarm and Bolt Escape being OP, but I'm sure the players using those skills feel they are within their rights (they are). I have no illusions I'm right about this, it's just my opinion, to which I'm entitled. I have been through both sides of the cherry-picking behavior, when it made me mad to run into it, when I did it myself, and now it's a zen thing for me. I can't change what others do, I can only adjust my attitude. But I refuse to allow others opinions to dictate my game play.

Rune_Relic

I am now at Vet 1.
I have been woodworking/clothier/smithy and collecting runes from day 1 as I wanted a crafting/fighting character.
My main aim has always been to get armour style motifs.
Do you know how many Ihave found ???
1

That's it ....my nord style + dunmer. Yes I see motifs offerered for 1000 gold.

I have tried the bank reclogging trick and all I get is racial stones...never ever racial motifs.

What does that say about the game as it is ?

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Divinius wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the issue is entirely about node respawning (or the lack thereof). And no, logging in/out does nothing to crafting nodes. They don't work like containers do.

If someone goes through an area, and picks out everything except Tas, then all those Tas are going to sit there until someone else takes them, or they reboot the server (assuming that even resets them).

Once the nodes that did get picked respawn, if another person comes through and does the same thing, then all the previous Tas are still there, as well as all the new Tas that appeared during in the nodes that did respawn. So as I already explained, if everyone took the attitude of "I'm just going to leave all the Tas" then eventually every rune node will be a Ta.

And yes, some people may want the Tas. That's fine, except I'm sure that even those people don't want to get ONLY Tas every time they farm runes. Basically, the "cherry pickers" are relying on the other farmers that are willing to take their "garbage" to clean up after them. That's where it becomes selfish and rude.

So let me get this straight everyone is gonna farm an area and think tad are worthless and not pick them up so no one will be able to get colored runes and taste will become the new Kuta thus increasing the value of talking runes again making them desired again and people will rush to farm all those aspect runes and get the ta. You fail to see that the cherry pickers don't profit from what they do either and eventually will be forced to take the ta or not get colored runes.

Curragraigue

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am now at Vet 1.
I have been woodworking/clothier/smithy and collecting runes from day 1 as I wanted a crafting/fighting character.
My main aim has always been to get armour style motifs.
Do you know how many Ihave found ???
1

That's it ....my nord style + dunmer. Yes I see motifs offerered for 1000 gold.

I have tried the bank reclogging trick and all I get is racial stones...never ever racial motifs.

What does that say about the game as it is ?

It says you are not checking every container to me.

I do a run of a city before logging off every time and I have found enough of the blue racial motifs that I have three characters with all of the racial motifs and I have 2-3 extras of each of them. The price on the blue motifs have dropped you shouldn't be paying more than 150-250 for them.

Or join a guild that has them for free in their guild bank.

springbound

Well I want to go back to the idea of blind picking ... I like the "pick it up and find out once it's in your pack. All runes one color ... then at least folks will have a chance to get to some of the better runes.

For those of us picking so we can have a re-pop... it takes time. We get back to the beginning and a cherry farmer has already come through. Since it is clear many think this acceptable .... (and some of them even sneak to do this to other farmers).

Just level the playing field - everyone picks and no one is left out.

Helen

I collect every aspect rune....often leave the worms due to no space and there ain't no way I'm making room for a worm. I'd say people don't realize how it works if they were to farm every node then they could come back and possibly find a decent one much sooner if they had a rune route mapped out. However while I want to get my enchanting up I am not gonna run around searching for runes all day I want to level my characters too. So I will be picky about which runes I go for....So Sorry! (Not really).

I use every aspect rune to craft except kutas (which I have saved since the beginning of the game and have 4 characters and only have accumulated 12) and decon everything I create....What I have a problem with is the very very low chance or extracting that aspect rune back after deconning despite having maxed the aspect extraction passives.

Also can glyphs other than normal ones drop?? I HAVE NEVER FOUND A GLYPH THAT WASN'T WHITE!!!

I get excited when I see an aspect rune because just maybe it will be something other than a Ta.

Divinius

Ourorboros wrote: »

Everyone is paying to play this game, and as long as they maintain official code of conduct they are free to play however they see fit. If some players disapprove of another players legitimate actions, that is their own personal hang-up, even if a huge majority feels that way.

I see. So you are the type of person that, if littering in real life wasn't actually illegal, you'd just be throwing your trash everywhere, because as long as you can't be punished for it, you don't care how your actions affect others.

That's cool, I get it. You are free to do that. I'm also free to consider people like you to be horribly selfish.

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

So let me get this straight everyone is gonna farm an area and think tad are worthless and not pick them up so no one will be able to get colored runes and taste will become the new Kuta thus increasing the value of talking runes again making them desired again and people will rush to farm all those aspect runes and get the ta. You fail to see that the cherry pickers don't profit from what they do either and eventually will be forced to take the ta or not get colored runes.

Maybe it's just me, but none of that made any sense whatsoever.

LonePirate

seanolan wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Calluna wrote: »

There are not separate nodes for aspect runes. At least I have never seen that and I farm a lot of runes.

I am not entirely convinced of this. The rune locations in Cyrodiil seem to be more static than the locations in the PVE zones. I will start paying more attention during my travels in Cyrodiil in the coming days.

Anyone with the harvest map add-on can tell you that you are 100% wrong. Any rune node can spawn any of the three types.

You would think so but there is a cave in Cyrodiil that always spawns Aspect runes every time I enter it - and there are at least 3-4 rune nodes in it. I have found several Kuta in there. Could it be pure luck? I suppose; but the chances of that occurring are so slim that it does seem like the rune types are static in that cave.

I will spend some time this week investigating this cave on the PTS in order to rule out cherry picking from other players. Cyrodiil operates under different rules in some regards (like treasure chests scaling to your level and not the zone). So there is a precedent of irregular behavior in this zone.

Now the runes in overland Cyrodiil definitely seem to be random as any of those nodes can spawn any type of rune.

Gillysan

I understand the idea of cherry pickers but I still don't see how this even remotely affects me. If I stay and work a zone for an hour or two I will be getting my own triggered respawns. The more people there are playing in an area, like on a weekend, whether they are questing while getting the odd resource node or actively gathering, the faster nodes will be cleared and start their respawn timers.

During slow times, see first note, I get my own triggered respawns.

I think two decent suggestions to take away here are (1) nodes despawn after a set amount of time (2) blind runes that aren't anything until it's looted into your inventory. However, the way loot works 2 seems like it will require extra work for ZOS to implement and it would end up behaving very different from how loot already works everywhere. Plus I would miss all those varied glowing colors, they would have to compensate for that hehe.

Bottom line is I don't see how cherry pickers remotely affect me. They have to travel a lot more and seem to be wasting their time being picky.

Ourorboros

Divinius wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Everyone is paying to play this game, and as long as they maintain official code of conduct they are free to play however they see fit. If some players disapprove of another players legitimate actions, that is their own personal hang-up, even if a huge majority feels that way.

I see. So you are the type of person that, if littering in real life wasn't actually illegal, you'd just be throwing your trash everywhere, because as long as you can't be punished for it, you don't care how your actions affect others.

That's cool, I get it. You are free to do that. I'm also free to consider people like you to be horribly selfish.

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

So let me get this straight everyone is gonna farm an area and think tad are worthless and not pick them up so no one will be able to get colored runes and taste will become the new Kuta thus increasing the value of talking runes again making them desired again and people will rush to farm all those aspect runes and get the ta. You fail to see that the cherry pickers don't profit from what they do either and eventually will be forced to take the ta or not get colored runes.

Maybe it's just me, but none of that made any sense whatsoever.

I see from your posts that you are the type of person to assume things. I suppose in real life you might convict someone because circumstances and a prosecutor say it's the right thing, even if neither were actually true. For the record, I find littering appalling, and it has nothing to do with the legality of it. That includes smokers who think the world is their ashtray. BUT.....this has NOTHING to do with a GAME. There is nothing anyone can do to control cherry-pickers in the game. Feel free to whine about it here, but if it was a real issue, surely we would have heard something, anything, about it from ZOS, who remains silent on the topic. If your CHOICE to let cherry-picking gets under your skin so bad, might I suggest you find a game where everyone follows common courtesy-good luck finding one. In the meantime, you should really limit your comments and assumptions about other posters to the game, cuz you don't know CRAP about my real world. you (expletive deleted).

Digiman

Aenra wrote: »

- this results in people being (self censored) selfish and picky. They loot the cloth, leave the worm that came with it for the next to find, effing him over doubly as a) they get nothing, b) this way the node won't respawn its content.

The majority of those problems if from this problem alone. Because of the nature of the loot system its very hard to keep space for items you think you will need and ones you actually need. Honestly its the programs fault. I can't understand why the developers thought that throwing in an item that won't be useful but take up space on node and prevent it from respawning was considered a good idea.

At the very least the plant should be gone if there is only garbage left. Honestly they need to remove those items from those nodes and place them else where with a different one.

Like a node looking like mud if your trying to find worms. Throwing in garbage you can't sell to a vendor only motivates those to leave said garbage and move on.

It's not the "cherry pickers" fault if there is nothing but trash they are forced to take because of stupid game designers decision. It also certainly is immersion breaking when item left is worms or garbage but the node icon remains enticingly full.

Gillysan

The problem Digiman is that this scenario rarely exists if it comes up at all. When have you gone out harvesting for 2 hours and all you got for those 2 hours were worms?

It does bring up an interesting notion that nodes should randomly(?) periodically(?) refresh as that would be good design practice. However, this cherry picking phenomenon is only alleged and I don't see it having any effect on me to date.

Plus, you get up to 100+ bag space and it's pretty easy to go out harvesting only or adventuring only without any inventory problems.

Divinius

Ourorboros wrote: »

I see from your posts that you are the type of person to assume things. I suppose in real life you might convict someone because circumstances and a prosecutor say it's the right thing, even if neither were actually true. For the record, I find littering appalling, and it has nothing to do with the legality of it. That includes smokers who think the world is their ashtray. BUT.....this has NOTHING to do with a GAME. There is nothing anyone can do to control cherry-pickers in the game. Feel free to whine about it here, but if it was a real issue, surely we would have heard something, anything, about it from ZOS, who remains silent on the topic. If your CHOICE to let cherry-picking gets under your skin so bad, might I suggest you find a game where everyone follows common courtesy-good luck finding one. In the meantime, you should really limit your comments and assumptions about other posters to the game, cuz you don't know CRAP about my real world. you (expletive deleted).

My apologies. I probably should have worded my post better to simply imply a correlation. I didn't intend to accuse.

Also, just for the record, I haven't personally seen a major problem with "cherry-pickers" in the game, therefore the issue itself doesn't get under my skin at all. My point was simply that (much like littering) if everyone were to do it, the results would be very noticeable. Justifying something with "well it's not really a problem yet, so I'll continue to do it" only works until enough people take that attitude that it does become a problem.

However, you are very correct in saying that we can't ever assume that everyone will always play fair or be considerate, especially on the internet. Common courtesy in a video game is indeed a very ludicrous thing to expect from every player.

If you look back to my first posts in this thread, you'll see that my comments on the topic started out simply stating that the only way to prevent this issue would be a change to the mechanics of the game. I'm well aware of the impossibility of changing the behaviors of people on the internet.

[Edited for typos.]

Woolenthreads

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am now at Vet 1.
I have been woodworking/clothier/smithy and collecting runes from day 1 as I wanted a crafting/fighting character.
My main aim has always been to get armour style motifs.
Do you know how many Ihave found ???
1

That's it ....my nord style + dunmer. Yes I see motifs offerered for 1000 gold.

I have tried the bank reclogging trick and all I get is racial stones...never ever racial motifs.

What does that say about the game as it is ?

That the God of RNG doesn't like you?

I have all of the non-VR motifs on one of my Alts and the rest of my NA alts average 70% completion of the racial motifs. I've had to sell 2 nord motifs recently because every alt has one. What the RNG God does not favour me with is with a single green dragon-sap recipe.