Let's clear up the whole stealth speed issue w/ vampires. HARD DATA and actual testing inside.

Nocturnalis

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Scroll up some, another poster answered your questions previously,

Also you answered why we were upset for yourself.

It was fun. So much fun.

Sorry, I just see "because... vampires". Yes, i get that it would seem fun, but that doesn't answer the question of weapon/ skill swap to quickly get useful combat stats back...

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Nocturnalis wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Scroll up some, another poster answered your questions previously,

Also you answered why we were upset for yourself.

It was fun. So much fun.

Sorry, I just see "because... vampires". Yes, i get that it would seem fun, but that doesn't answer the question of weapon/ skill swap to quickly get useful combat stats back...

so you're just not going to scroll up and read the post that directly addressed that?

Also, I never mentioned justification because of vampirism. I suspect you didn't actually read my post.

Kalann_Pander

Nocturnalis wrote: »

Sorry, I just see "because... vampires". Yes, i get that it would seem fun, but that doesn't answer the question of weapon/ skill swap to quickly get useful combat stats back...

Yes, you could weapon-swap, but not armor-swap, so you'd keep the Night's Silence set anyway.

LunaRae

So yea, I don't run fast anymore. I never used night silence as my main PvP gear, I only used it for travel. I definitely outran most players who were on horses, including 75%. I'm a vamp, night silence, concealed weapon, movespeed potion and retreating maneuver. 1.4 basically destroyed the movespeed bonus as I'm a vampire so I don't even use it anymore, guess it saves me the hassle of using wykkyd outfitter to swap sets out of combat. Still a bummer, running around fast was fun.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

LunaRae wrote: »

So yea, I don't run fast anymore. I never used night silence as my main PvP gear, I only used it for travel. I definitely outran most players who were on horses, including 75%. I'm a vamp, night silence, concealed weapon, movespeed potion and retreating maneuver. 1.4 basically destroyed the movespeed bonus as I'm a vampire so I don't even use it anymore, guess it saves me the hassle of using wykkyd outfitter to swap sets out of combat. Still a bummer, running around fast was fun.

No you didn't. I know because I tested it. Also, like I said, there's an entire post clearing this up with numbers to back it up.

Nocturnalis

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nocturnalis wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Scroll up some, another poster answered your questions previously,

Also you answered why we were upset for yourself.

It was fun. So much fun.

Sorry, I just see "because... vampires". Yes, i get that it would seem fun, but that doesn't answer the question of weapon/ skill swap to quickly get useful combat stats back...

so you're just not going to scroll up and read the post that directly addressed that?

Also, I never mentioned justification because of vampirism. I suspect you didn't actually read my post.

I just see your post about Twilight and reaction to the horse diary. I have looked through the thread twice. Not trying to be difficult, might have a technical snag - reading the forums on an iPad.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Nocturnalis wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nocturnalis wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Scroll up some, another poster answered your questions previously,

Also you answered why we were upset for yourself.

It was fun. So much fun.

Sorry, I just see "because... vampires". Yes, i get that it would seem fun, but that doesn't answer the question of weapon/ skill swap to quickly get useful combat stats back...

so you're just not going to scroll up and read the post that directly addressed that?

Also, I never mentioned justification because of vampirism. I suspect you didn't actually read my post.

I just see your post about Twilight and reaction to the horse diary. I have looked through the thread twice. Not trying to be difficult, might have a technical snag - reading the forums on an iPad.

I didn't post it, another poster did, as I posted in my original response to you.

GreyPilgrim

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

Lmao..all the data in the world doesnt make sneaking at ridiculous speeds acceptable.

Your numbers show that vamps could not sneak faster than the fastest horse in the game leveled up with +Speed every time WHILE it is sprinting. That doesnt mean that sneaking at NEARLY the speed of the fastest horse in the game makes it ok...

This topic is a dead horse (haha). Move on to more important things that are RUINING the game. Thanks.

Exactly. I really wish people would stop talking about this.

The facts are that you can stealth at the speed of a full sprint horse sprinting. Just think about this. You are crouching on the ground and moving at the same speed as a race horse. Are you people insane?

No, we're playing a fantasy game. Fantasy. Game.

pupp3t

was not simply fun was a totally different lifestyle but now they reduced the game option to only suicide/camp spawn what is a bit sad for this game.

GreyPilgrim

Kalann_Pander wrote: »

Nocturnalis wrote: »

Sorry, I just see "because... vampires". Yes, i get that it would seem fun, but that doesn't answer the question of weapon/ skill swap to quickly get useful combat stats back...

Yes, you could weapon-swap, but not armor-swap, so you'd keep the Night's Silence set anyway.

Actually, if you were using either a dual wield or sword-n-board build, you could use the weapon swap to switch which set you had 5 piece bonus on, for example, to Night Mother's for the critical armor debuff. You would immediately slow down, but weapon swap is pretty fast.

The bottom line is that this ability made it possible to use close range single target DPS from stealth viably in a PvP context. Without it, it is extraordinarily slow and clunky to try and flank opponents for a stealth hit. Not impossible, just slow and clunky. Which means that while you are taking forever to try and get 1 kill, somebody else is running around spamming AoE's and getting way more hits, and contributing to way more kills, and therefore earning way more AP. Having these passives stack meant you could move in and flank opponents quickly enough to make a meaningful contribution to the battle using single target melee DPS.

So while it is possible to make NB builds that aren't aimed at Single target close range DPS, it is in fact what the central abilities of the class mostly focus around. Not exclusively, but mostly. So I think that much of the frustration and drama is that you have a class designed to be 'best' at a combat role (single target melee range DPS) that turns out to have little value in this game's pvp.

So while you can build for another role, you are left with the sneaking suspiscion that you would do better at that role with a different class. Yes, I could build my nightblade to run around and drop AoE's. But I suspect I'm never going to do it as effectively as a sorc, for example.

So, this is why it's mostly NB's who are upset about losing this stack, because it seems like its driven by people griping that ZOMG it's immersion breaking. In a game where I can have 10 siege weapons in my backpack, and call horses out of thin air.

So was it stupid that I could run faster than SOME horses? Yes. But not any more stupid than a whole lot of other things that are in this game for PLAY-ABILITY and BALANCE, but are completely ridiculous as soon as you think about them.

Edit: Oh, and ty to the OP for performing the testing and generating the data. I doubt we will see this reinstated, but it's good to know how things were actually stacking up.

kijima

Well said my friend.

Yusuf

i didn't see retreating maneuvers and 30-39%-speedpotions in your calculation

Probitas

It doesn't make logical sense that when sneaking and apparently attempting to be silent you move faster than someone running. I have yet to see a ring of silence anywhere in game. Maybe because it's a game people are willing to be blind to this obvious illogical behavior, but that's what it is. If you are trying to be careful and not make noise, you are not flitting down the road at high speed. You are moving slowly to avoid stepping on dry sticks, leaves, and other noise producing items.

To expect otherwise is munchkinism and yes, a desire to actually be OP.

eNumbra

Probitas wrote: »

It doesn't make logical sense that when sneaking and apparently attempting to be silent you move faster than someone running. I have yet to see a ring of silence anywhere in game.

Unless of course that's what the magical item set is doing. You know, silencing movement as to allow faster stealthing.

Probitas

That makes no sense. If you are magically silenced you have no need to sneak at all, cause they can't hear you. You ought to be able to run at full tilt then.

1sneak
verb \ˈsnēk\

: to move quietly and secretly in order to avoid being noticed

If you don't have to be quiet then you don't need to sneak. There is also that matter of VISION to content with. Peoples eyes are attracted to motion. If you move slowly, you are more likely to NOT attract attention.

I can only conclude that some people wish to be able to ignore logic in games.

Now if they are invisible and silent, then sure, no one should see them. Except maybe AOE damage, or spells like Mage Light. Or AOE snares. I don't care how invisible or silent you are, run through a field of caltrops, or have someone damage the area you are in or dispel your invis, then you are done. Invis and sneak are not a cloak of invulnerability and should not be expected to be.

eNumbra

I love that everyone against NS/DS has to be so vehemently obtuse in order to support their arguments.

MornaBaine

Nocturnalis wrote: »

I don't get this... I am an atloholic that is slowly trudging his alts up the leveling ranks, so I don't have much experience in this matter other than seeing a few people zip around steathing in Cyrodiil.

I see that the "for" people state it has no combat usefulness, my question is: say you are speeding up to someone, wearing your night's silence set, vamp, concealed weapon - all that jazz... is it possible to swap your gear/ skillset (if needed) with an addon in a split second? In order to get the jump on someone with you back at full combat capability? Or is there a delay/ is this not possible to do?

Also why are people are people so pationate about this, yet they also say it is so gimped at the same time? If it is slower than horses than why not ride your horse instead? Is it just that you can be stealthed to avoid being jumped when you are travelling? - why avoid pvp?

This speed sounds fun, but also ridiculous. I am on the fence regarding it.

Thank you for the education, if anyone replies.

For me it was the one thing that made it actually feel as if I was playing a vampire. Vampires are just NOT done all that well in this game. We get over the top truly hideous Nosferatu looks within 30 minutes of feeding...that not a single NPC ever notices. Nope, not even other vampires are aware of the fact that we are vampires. Gone are the townies givin' us the stink eye and muttering about not liking OUR eyes, everybody is happy to do business with us even though we look like we're something out of their worst nightmares and about to tear their hearts out. And have you ever SEEN the animation for feeding? Your vampire sneaks up behind someone and, FROM A FEW FEET AWAY, sucks this freaking ridiculous giant streaming gout of blood out of them. Oh and this doesn't hurt them at all, it just stuns them. But then, of course, you HAVE to kill them because you've just initiated combat and it would NEVER occur to anyone to run the freaking hell AWAY from you. Let's see what else to vampires have going for them? Oh yeah, they can turn into mist! Of course, for reasons completely beyond my comprehension, they have to YELL at the top of their lungs every single time they do so. Yeah, THAT'S stealthy and TOTALLY what a vampire that has just dissolved into MIST would do! Oh and though our vampires are supposedly stronger at night they live in a world where the days are 6 hours long...and only TWO of those hours are nighttime. Gee, that's great. Let's see...what else? Oh well we have a cool drain spell that's pretty much exactly like the feeding thing except it actually causes damage. And then there's bat swarm, the only thing for vampires they actually managed to make look pretty cool.

So basically, vampires are pretty lame and play just like an ugly sorcerer...and not a vampire at all.

BUT... with the Night's Silence set we at least had celerity! Preternatural speed, one of the cornerstones of all vampire myth and legend! And even though it DID suck for combat we did it because...wait for it... it was actually FUN! You know, that crazy thing that actually makes us willing to shell out 15 bucks a month for being endless beta testers for this game!

I hope that helps you understand the widespread dismay a little better.

Probitas

Truly? Sneaking is what it is for that reason, remove the negatives and you remove the need for application. I could understand the implementation if it followed a logical progression, but it does not. You simply can't take advantage of something that would come from slow and stealthy movement and ignore those requirements simply because they interfere with a desire to move fast.

I have a NB, and it makes no sense to need to sneak if by definition I'm buffed to NOT need to sneak. Then all I have to do is avoid eye contact with a target, and frankly, the game doesn't really do a good job of that at all. I should not be able to sneak up on someone in broad daylight unless I'm coming from the rear and making no sound.

Why is it so hard for people to understand logical argumentation? Oh wait, it's a FORUM. My bad.

Heck, if you want to get downright annoying, I could also claim that in a game where vampires have the ability to turn invis and move fast while stealthed, the Mages and Fighter guilds would have magicked up a response for that, and it should be available in game to anyone that is a member of said guilds to use against Vamps for that very reason, and if it's not there, then the game is failing by allowing ONE group of players to game with impunity.

The scales have to be balanced, if THIS then THAT. Otherwise the contest is never even. And then what's the point of playing? Success needs to be achievable in parity for both sides. There should be a counter for all abilities in game.

MornaBaine

Allow me to further illustrate....

When we had Night's Silence Set that worked for vampires:


And now:

Shunravi

Probitas wrote: »

Truly? Sneaking is what it is for that reason, remove the negatives and you remove the need for application. I could understand the implementation if it followed a logical progression, but it does not. You simply can't take advantage of something that would come from slow and stealthy movement and ignore those requirements simply because they interfere with a desire to move fast.

I have a NB, and it makes no sense to need to sneak if by definition I'm buffed to NOT need to sneak. Then all I have to do is avoid eye contact with a target, and frankly, the game doesn't really do a good job of that at all. I should not be able to sneak up on someone in broad daylight unless I'm coming from the rear and making no sound.

Why is it so hard for people to understand logical argumentation? Oh wait, it's a FORUM. My bad.

Heck, if you want to get downright annoying, I could also claim that in a game where vampires have the ability to turn invis and move fast while stealthed, the Mages and Fighter guilds would have magicked up a response for that, and it should be available in game to anyone that is a member of said guilds to use against Vamps for that very reason, and if it's not there, then the game is failing by allowing ONE group of players to game with impunity.

The scales have to be balanced, if THIS then THAT. Otherwise the contest is never even. And then what's the point of playing? Success needs to be achievable in parity for both sides. There should be a counter for all abilities in game.

Magelight
THE ENTIRE FIGHTERS GULD LINE

heck, if you want to get downright annoying, FIRE and DETECTION POTIONS

curlyqloub14_ESO

Probitas wrote: »

Why is it so hard for people to understand logical argumentation?

For such a proponent of logic, this should be easy for you to understand: we are playing a game. It is fantasy. Many millions of things in this game are not logical or realistic. For example:

- I can walk through portals into other time/space dimensions, and use little towers scattered through the land to travel vast distances across the world in the blink of an eye.
- I can see ghosts and commune with the dead. I can even help them out and change the past (or is it future?)
- And speaking of dead, how about all those zombies and skeletons walking around? Those are realistic. I kill them all the time. But really, logically - I shouldn't EVER be able to kill them, since they are already dead...and undead. Where's the logic in that?
- I never grow old, but I do die. However, when I die, I come back to life...at the same age...forever. That's a nice little enigma.
- I can carry full body armor, weapons, potions, food, tents, even catapults in my bag, and millions in gold... and never get weighed down at all (ah...Skyrim). You'd think that stuff would be heavy, but apparently it's not. I must have a copy of Hermoine's magic purse...but the upgraded invisible version. And it must have a fridge inside also, since my food never seems to go bad no matter how long it sits in there. Ya know what? I must be Santa. Where are my flying reindeer?
- And oh yeah, lets not forget the vampires. But, apparently those are real, since people seem to know SO much about how they should "realisitically" and "logically" function. They MUST be real, in the real world, otherwise how, logically, can you possibly know so firmly how they work?

But back to reality...
The notion that this game should follow rules of real life logic and reason is, in itself, a fallacy. Very little about this game is actually logical or realistic, so there is no grounds in any argument that anything in this game "should" be logical. The argument that sneaking "should" be slow because that's how sneaking really works is just completely baseless in this context. If you want sneaking to be realistic, you shouldn't ever be able to turn invisible when you sneak either. Right? I mean, that's how "real" sneaking works in the real world... people may not notice you, but you don't actually, ya know, vanish.

So to answer your original question that I quoted, it's NOT hard for people to understand logical argumentation, they understand it fine. But your argument is not logical in itself - because you are suggesting that a fantasy world (where no logic exists) should be logical. So people are ignoring your argumentation, because it is baseless.

GnatB

MornaBaine wrote: »

No, we are vampires. As such we are SUPPOSED to be preternaturally fast. And as our BEING preternaturally fast did not in any way wreck anyone else's gameplay there was ZERO excuse to do this.

First, ES vampires aren't preternaturally fast. A bit fater (in some versions) but not ridiculously faster. That said, they already have a short term ability that gives them a 45% across the board speed buff. Elusive mist. Heck, they could also change the passive to a 10% across the board (well, not when mounted) speed buff. Which would far more closely align with simply being "faster". And not the "ridiculously faster when and only when in stealth". That said, Vampires also (in ES) become ridiculously weak in daylight. Why should they have any of the benefits when they are still missing their most significant downside?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Why don't you explain how it is OP?

Easier time attacking from stealth due to less time for enemy detection.
Faster transportation far cheaper *and* w/o having to worry about hostiles as much. Faster questing. Faster harvesting. Faster tactical movement prior to combat.

How can you possibly think it *isn't* OP? There's a reason horses are expensive, speed, even out of combat speed, is useful.

Aoife32001

GnatB wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

No, we are vampires. As such we are SUPPOSED to be preternaturally fast. And as our BEING preternaturally fast did not in any way wreck anyone else's gameplay there was ZERO excuse to do this.

First, ES vampires aren't preternaturally fast. A bit fater (in some versions) but not ridiculously faster. That said, they already have a short term ability that gives them a 45% across the board speed buff. Elusive mist. Heck, they could also change the passive to a 10% across the board (well, not when mounted) speed buff. Which would far more closely align with simply being "faster". And not the "ridiculously faster when and only when in stealth". That said, Vampires also (in ES) become ridiculously weak in daylight. Why should they have any of the benefits when they are still missing their most significant downside?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Why don't you explain how it is OP?

Easier time attacking from stealth due to less time for enemy detection.
Faster transportation far cheaper *and* w/o having to worry about hostiles as much. Faster questing. Faster harvesting. Faster tactical movement prior to combat.

How can you possibly think it *isn't* OP? There's a reason horses are expensive, speed, even out of combat speed, is useful.

First of all, as GnatB and numerous others have pointed out, Elder Scrolls vampires are not particularly noted for being "preternaturally fast". Even in "real-world" vampire lore and legend, vampires aren't typically noted for being exceptionally fast, in the admittedly limited amount of reading I've done (mostly from Eastern European lore). Now, they are super fast in... Hollywood and Twilight, but I couldn't give two ***** about what pop culture has to say about vampires. The only vampire lore that concerns ESO is Elder Scrolls lore.

Now, if you want to bring "real life" lore into it, guess what else vampires are known for? They're known to be unable to resist obsessively counting every single grain of rice they come across. Corpses suspected of possibly becoming vampiric were buried with bags of rice just to keep them busy and in the grave at night. Villagers would sprinkle rice around house entrances. So (and I would not be opposed to this ), if you're so determined to bring "real world" lore into this, maybe my character should be able to throw a bag of rice at your vamp as he goes by at mach 2, and then do him in while he stops to obsessively count each grain.

MornaBaine

Aoife32001 wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

No, we are vampires. As such we are SUPPOSED to be preternaturally fast. And as our BEING preternaturally fast did not in any way wreck anyone else's gameplay there was ZERO excuse to do this.

First, ES vampires aren't preternaturally fast. A bit fater (in some versions) but not ridiculously faster. That said, they already have a short term ability that gives them a 45% across the board speed buff. Elusive mist. Heck, they could also change the passive to a 10% across the board (well, not when mounted) speed buff. Which would far more closely align with simply being "faster". And not the "ridiculously faster when and only when in stealth". That said, Vampires also (in ES) become ridiculously weak in daylight. Why should they have any of the benefits when they are still missing their most significant downside?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Why don't you explain how it is OP?

Easier time attacking from stealth due to less time for enemy detection.
Faster transportation far cheaper *and* w/o having to worry about hostiles as much. Faster questing. Faster harvesting. Faster tactical movement prior to combat.

How can you possibly think it *isn't* OP? There's a reason horses are expensive, speed, even out of combat speed, is useful.

First of all, as GnatB and numerous others have pointed out, Elder Scrolls vampires are not particularly noted for being "preternaturally fast". Even in "real-world" vampire lore and legend, vampires aren't typically noted for being exceptionally fast, in the admittedly limited amount of reading I've done (mostly from Eastern European lore). Now, they are super fast in... Hollywood and Twilight, but I couldn't give two ***** about what pop culture has to say about vampires. The only vampire lore that concerns ESO is Elder Scrolls lore.

Now, if you want to bring "real life" lore into it, guess what else vampires are known for? They're known to be unable to resist obsessively counting every single grain of rice they come across. Corpses suspected of possibly becoming vampiric were buried with bags of rice just to keep them busy and in the grave at night. Villagers would sprinkle rice around house entrances. So (and I would not be opposed to this ), if you're so determined to bring "real world" lore into this, maybe my character should be able to throw a bag of rice at your vamp as he goes by at mach 2, and then do him in while he stops to obsessively count each grain.

I am EXTREMELY familiar with Eastern European vampire lore so yes, I am familiar with everything you say above. But as you also point out, this is ES lore and it doesn't have to correlate with anything coming from real world lore. Literature and movies also deviate from real world vampire myth and legend a great deal as well. ES vampires actually CONFORM more to real world lore than movie vampires do and more than MOST vampires from literature do. Because in folklore vampires do NOT burst into flame if exposed to sunlight. They are merely weaker during the day and, as such, are nocturnal by nature rather than necessity.

All that said, there are things that just say "vampire" to most modern people and most of us like it if some of these tropes are honored. So we're not too keen on vampires NOT biting victims on the neck, NOT having preternatural speed, not sleeping in crypts, NOT at least avoiding direct sunlight... and so ESO vampires DON'T feel much like vampires at all. Zenimax needs to work on this. And there's no reason they can't add things players have requested and make it lore-friendly in the process since there are strains we don't even know about and no reason they can't add abilities and simply say gaining them is a result of your vampire mastering more of their skills. Or any other number of reasonable, within the lore, explanations.

LunaRae

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

LunaRae wrote: »

So yea, I don't run fast anymore. I never used night silence as my main PvP gear, I only used it for travel. I definitely outran most players who were on horses, including 75%. I'm a vamp, night silence, concealed weapon, movespeed potion and retreating maneuver. 1.4 basically destroyed the movespeed bonus as I'm a vampire so I don't even use it anymore, guess it saves me the hassle of using wykkyd outfitter to swap sets out of combat. Still a bummer, running around fast was fun.

No you didn't. I know because I tested it. Also, like I said, there's an entire post clearing this up with numbers to back it up.

Argue you all you want bro, but I did. Maybe it was a bug, but honestly it doesn't matter anymore.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

LunaRae wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

LunaRae wrote: »

So yea, I don't run fast anymore. I never used night silence as my main PvP gear, I only used it for travel. I definitely outran most players who were on horses, including 75%. I'm a vamp, night silence, concealed weapon, movespeed potion and retreating maneuver. 1.4 basically destroyed the movespeed bonus as I'm a vampire so I don't even use it anymore, guess it saves me the hassle of using wykkyd outfitter to swap sets out of combat. Still a bummer, running around fast was fun.

No you didn't. I know because I tested it. Also, like I said, there's an entire post clearing this up with numbers to back it up.

Argue you all you want bro, but I did. Maybe it was a bug, but honestly it doesn't matter anymore.

Yes, apparently you were bugged. You and not anyone else, because that is not how it worked and you are wrong.

So let's go with that and you stop posting false information, mmkay?

Everyone needs to stop with the lore and real life lore stuff all around.

Different bloodline. Any lore about any other vampire bloodline is somewhat irrelevant.

Real life is irrelevant, vampires aren't even real. And there's 100 different myths about them.

This bloodline has a passive to move especially fast. That is all that is relevant. This bloodline is in fact, per implementation, fast at sneaking.

Preky19

The Night Silence set bonus before the update was: "Increase speed while Sneaking by 60%", and the Dark Stalker was: "Ignore movement speed penalty when Sneaking". This are completely two different things, so of course they will stack.

They didn't change the "tooltip", they changed the whole bonus and the meaning of it.

It was working as intended, but since ppl start complaining, they removed it. So whats next, removing BE, Talons, Bat Swarm...

Preky19

If you want it back, vote:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132748/night-silence-set-dark-stalker-bring-back-the-old-bonuses-and-stacking#latest

Attorneyatlawl

Preky19 wrote: »

If you want it back, vote:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132748/night-silence-set-dark-stalker-bring-back-the-old-bonuses-and-stacking#latest

Seeing this topic come up again lately, too. I felt it was wrong to have it nerfed way back when, and I still do now:

Most recently, this one: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196450/so-why-did-they-stop-night-silence-5set-stacking-with-dark-stalker