The Bow as a Sustained PvE End-Game Single-Target DPS weapon

Varicite

Why on earth would a bow suddenly be immune to stun, root, and snare while channeling an ability when none of the melee range weapons provide this?

That makes absolutely no sense...

PBpsy

Selodaoc wrote: »

Rapid Shot
30 Meter Range
Instant
Channeled

Fires multiple arrows that deal xxxx to xxxx damage over 3s. Grants immunity to Stun, Root, and Snare.
Applies snare/knockdown/increased dmg to target depending on morph.

That is the answer to the "How can we break pvp balance even more ?" question.

As if bow builds are not one of the most annoying, overused and cheap play styles in PVP.

Jaxom

PBpsy wrote: »

Selodaoc wrote: »

Rapid Shot
30 Meter Range
Instant
Channeled

Fires multiple arrows that deal xxxx to xxxx damage over 3s. Grants immunity to Stun, Root, and Snare.
Applies snare/knockdown/increased dmg to target depending on morph.

That is the answer to the "How can we break pvp balance even more ?" question.

As if bow builds are not one of the most annoying, overused and cheap play styles in PVP.

This wouldn't break PvP. You are essentially rooted for 3s while channeling. It could be interrupted and being in the same spot unloading would open you up for a counter attack since you can't move.

You know whats the most annoying, overused and cheap play styles? Fire Ring, Immovable, Streak, and Clouding Swarm.

Marsalla

I think we all agree that either:
1) The Poison Injection morph has to stack fairly high (which impacts PvP due to morph selection)
2) Focused Aim has to lose the deadzone AND gain a stacking buff or have its damage increased radically (same PvP impact and clunky in PvE), or
3) a Volley morph needs to become a single target sustained PvE DPS ability, which has no downside.

One thing I will say is that IF the Volley morph we're discussing is for sustained, single-target DPS then for balance purposes it can be interruptible and does not need to grant ANY bonus outside of damage.

Also, if anyone with a little green ring is reading, " At this point the solutions have been out there a good while, and if a fix doesn't go into this patch I have to wonder if it's a logical conclusion that some weapon skill lines are not designed to be PvE skill lines. I'd really like to see something official on it so we know whether or not we're wasting our efforts to help additional parts of ESO be enjoyable."

All responses are appreciated!

Thanks Again And Keep It Going,

Varicite

Jaxom wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Selodaoc wrote: »

Rapid Shot
30 Meter Range
Instant
Channeled

Fires multiple arrows that deal xxxx to xxxx damage over 3s. Grants immunity to Stun, Root, and Snare.
Applies snare/knockdown/increased dmg to target depending on morph.

That is the answer to the "How can we break pvp balance even more ?" question.

As if bow builds are not one of the most annoying, overused and cheap play styles in PVP.

This wouldn't break PvP. You are essentially rooted for 3s while channeling. It could be interrupted and being in the same spot unloading would open you up for a counter attack since you can't move.

You know whats the most annoying, overused and cheap play styles? Fire Ring, Immovable, Streak, and Clouding Swarm.

I don't mind the idea of a Rapid Shot-like ability, but just w/out the CC immunity or CC tied to morphs.

The bow already has plenty of CC attached to it, more than any other weapon in the game.

And there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that a ranged weapon should have CC immunity on its channeled ability while melee-range weapons, where you are actually in harm's way using them, do not. That's just silly.

Jaxom

Varicite wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Selodaoc wrote: »

Rapid Shot
30 Meter Range
Instant
Channeled

Fires multiple arrows that deal xxxx to xxxx damage over 3s. Grants immunity to Stun, Root, and Snare.
Applies snare/knockdown/increased dmg to target depending on morph.

That is the answer to the "How can we break pvp balance even more ?" question.

As if bow builds are not one of the most annoying, overused and cheap play styles in PVP.

This wouldn't break PvP. You are essentially rooted for 3s while channeling. It could be interrupted and being in the same spot unloading would open you up for a counter attack since you can't move.

You know whats the most annoying, overused and cheap play styles? Fire Ring, Immovable, Streak, and Clouding Swarm.

I don't mind the idea of a Rapid Shot-like ability, but just w/out the CC immunity or CC tied to morphs.

The bow already has plenty of CC attached to it, more than any other weapon in the game.

And there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that a ranged weapon should have CC immunity on its channeled ability while melee-range weapons, where you are actually in harm's way using them, do not. That's just silly.

That's fine. I was just spitballing ideas. The more I think about it, you are probably right. No need for it to have a cc as well. Someone else mentioned changing one of the Volley morphs to make it be single target. I think that is a great idea. Call it, Focused Volley or something like that.

Sasky

ArRashid wrote: »

Still, this game's biggest problem atm is ANIMATION CANCELING, because leaving it unfixed for so long made people just assume they SHOULD do that (and assume everyone who refuses to use it is a noob who shouldn't even attempt endgame).
I mean, really.. I wish they made some debuff that makes your weapon unequip (or otherwise paralyze you, such as -100% light attack damage) if you cancel animation more than once a several seconds, unless you're wearing a shield (since tanks kinda have to cancel animations to survive, if they are caught swinging weapons when boss attacks them).

Perhaps have a percent chance to hit based on the percent of the time you let the animation run. There are some dodge mechanics in-game, so it could piggy-back off of those. This way you can still clip (tanks to get block, healers to cancel out into heal) but it's not viable for a normal way of increasing damage. It also doesn't punitively punish someone for animation canceling unless they clip skills with block. (Side effect: no casting through block in PvP.)

At the same time, though, since so much of DPS is reliant on animation canceling, the actual damage from skills should be increased to compensate at least partially. (They could take this opportunity to do a stealth nerf as well by boosting the under-performing class and weapon skills more than those that currently do well.)

Marsalla

After continued testing I'm still holding out hope that we'll see a volley morph similar to flurry that will allow the bow to bring enough dps. Anyone had any luck? I don't want to give up until this patch goes live.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

I think the main problem comes from the lack of an ability like "Spell Symetry" .

I don't wanna derail the thread, but from PvP I know, that Bow can create an insane burst, so if players here are reporting that they aren't able to sustain more than 650 DPS at most, not the Dmg of the skills is the problem, but the sustainability of Stamina.

Thejollygreenone

In the newest patch notes the Morag Tong (poison damage buff) set is getting changed to include bows, I have some high hopes about it for my PvE bow build. (Just thought I'd throw that out there)

Rune_Relic

BOW = light attack + magnum shot.

Run to player with light attacks
magnum shot to stun and gap.
rinse repeat.

DPS probably isnt that high...but weaving the stun/gap with light attack maintains the stamina levels quite well.
You can eat the stamina if you dont maximise the stun time before firing off the next stun.
[stun/knockback just before you enter melee range and the PVE put the range weapons away]
Sorcs you keep close with knockbacks.
Melee you draw them in and knockback.

Doesnt work on everything. Some stuff is immune to the stun...and some to the knockback.

Opening with snipe can do a lot of the work for you and also stun...givign you time to close the gap .....just dont light attack until you are in range or you break the stun.

Melee combat and physical ranged combat for stamina build rely heavily on stun to be effective at all.

Poison arrow is good on resources too as said.

Marsalla

Just to prevent derailing, this thread is to discuss "The Bow as a Sustained PvE End-Game Single-Target DPS weapon". Specifically, this means trials bosses. The Morag Tong change is definitely worthy of note. Honestly, though, without the changes suggested previously I don't see the bow making it. If anyone has any experience to the contrary, I'd love to hear it. Quite a bit disappointed that we're this far in (and this close to console) without what from all accounts is a very much required bow skill modification for sustained, single target PvE viability (i.e. bosses)

Voodoo

the title says "The Bow as a Sustained PvE End-Game Single-Target DPS weapon".

Start your own threads about pvp..

Haelm

Poison arrow needs a boost, it should be noticeably better than a light given its using a resource. I would like to see something in the 20-25% mark on the initial hit. DoT stacking would be nice too,particularly for Trial DPS where you could combine it with some poison debuff.
The only advantage a bow has in PvP, Stealth heavy hit from behind, is almost unusable in Trials and no help to sustained dps anyway. Notably this is more useful in PvP than Venom Arrow interrupt as well. Venom seems better suited to PvE situation interrupt.
While your fixing Poison Arrow, fix the DoT breaking our hide.

Tamanous

I've been playing bow for a while now and I must agree that this skill set screams for some sort of short channel rapid shot ability. Bow isn't that bad to be honest and works well with another melee weapon for close ranged backup but it lacks ranged options for sustained dps.

There is a reason why many other games that have bow (or their equivalent non-magic ranged class) have a similar rapid shot "filler" ability. It is required for sustained dps AND stops this game from further having yet another weaving spam exploit weapon.

The health of this game requires the reduction of simply picking the best skills to abuse weaving and an increase is strategic choices. Bow already is one of weapons that slows or stops movement and is why it actually feels like a real weapon choice instead of weave spam. Frankly magic needs far more slows, cast times and channels as well. ZoS apparently missed the Basic RPG Balance 101 class when it comes to archetype design. If magic builds are to be so powerful they need counter balances. ESO has zero counterbalances right now for magicka builds.

SienneYviete

Just wanted to throw into this topic atm I have been working on a sustained single target bow build on my DK of which I have completed speed runs on AA with, currently its putting out smack bang on 1k dps on trial bosses and up to 5k burst over 2 seconds. Gear i'm using is 5 piece hundings rage 2 piece quick serpent 2 piece berserking warrior and 2 piece eagle eye with my bow and medium armor passives bringing my base crit up to 73% I have the shadow mundus (with thief your crit goes up to 80%) basically i keep weapon damage crit and stamina pots refreshed, green dragon blood and igneous weapons up at all times but instead of weaving LA and venom arrow I use poison injection for the dot and weave LA and magnum shot once I am knocked back I run back in weaving light attacks, let off fiery breath and just refresh the poison dot with poison injection evil hunter is also kept most of the time depending on the boss.

manny254

SienneYviete wrote: »

Just wanted to throw into this topic atm I have been working on a sustained single target bow build on my DK of which I have completed speed runs on AA with, currently its putting out smack bang on 1k dps on trial bosses and up to 5k burst over 2 seconds. Gear i'm using is 5 piece hundings rage 2 piece quick serpent 2 piece berserking warrior and 2 piece eagle eye with my bow and medium armor passives bringing my base crit up to 73% I have the shadow mundus (with thief your crit goes up to 80%) basically i keep weapon damage crit and stamina pots refreshed, green dragon blood and igneous weapons up at all times but instead of weaving LA and venom arrow I use poison injection for the dot and weave LA and magnum shot once I am knocked back I run back in weaving light attacks, let off fiery breath and just refresh the poison dot with poison injection evil hunter is also kept most of the time depending on the boss.

I have a stamina DK that I made for fun, and I am curious what you would recommend for sets for someone who doesn't have any of the trials sets. Also what enchants do you recommend?

SienneYviete

manny254 wrote: »

SienneYviete wrote: »

Just wanted to throw into this topic atm I have been working on a sustained single target bow build on my DK of which I have completed speed runs on AA with, currently its putting out smack bang on 1k dps on trial bosses and up to 5k burst over 2 seconds. Gear i'm using is 5 piece hundings rage 2 piece quick serpent 2 piece berserking warrior and 2 piece eagle eye with my bow and medium armor passives bringing my base crit up to 73% I have the shadow mundus (with thief your crit goes up to 80%) basically i keep weapon damage crit and stamina pots refreshed, green dragon blood and igneous weapons up at all times but instead of weaving LA and venom arrow I use poison injection for the dot and weave LA and magnum shot once I am knocked back I run back in weaving light attacks, let off fiery breath and just refresh the poison dot with poison injection evil hunter is also kept most of the time depending on the boss.

I have a stamina DK that I made for fun, and I am curious what you would recommend for sets for someone who doesn't have any of the trials sets. Also what enchants do you recommend?

Without the trial sets honestly i'm not too sure, but im running my three main pieces with stamina enchants, health on the smaller pieces and divines trait on all armor, there is definitely room to move here as i'm not using thief and honestly i'm not too sure how much extra damage i'm getting from the shadow stone but i'm assuming probably not too much, impenetrable could probably do a whole lot for this build in pvp as I'm pretty much a glass cannon If I don't get that insta death I either have to vanish with a potion or try and fight which usually ends up in my death pretty quick. 1 key piece of the stam regen on a DK bow build is earthen heart abilities as these proc the helping hands passive, trick is not letting yourself get to 0 stamina because your dps will just insta drop so throwing in igneous weapons or fragmented shield every now and then really helps. In set choice really all I was looking for was to maximize weapon crit, weapon damage and have as big a stamina pool as I can and these sets offered me this, still working on this build so hopefully with VR14 and some new sets to be found this DPS can increase.

Marsalla

Greetings, Sienne!

Thank you so very much for coming out here
Is there any chance you could pose a breakdown from FTC or recount? Mostly just curious what the ability % looks like. A SS of a trial kill's FTC breakdown would be best, if you wouldn't mind too much! Either way thanks for contributing.

Marsalla

So...AOEs and snipe...This feels like another entire month of failure to support this skill line to me. Any other opinions or data otherwise before I abandon this?