Bat Swarm should disable other attacks while active.

Attorneyatlawl

Obus wrote: »

There is a thing called roll dodge. If you spend your stamina on other things, is your problem.

That would take paying attention at all instead of mashing your IWIN button though. Dodgeroll and spread out in 2 seconds, vamp dead.

Attorneyatlawl

technohic wrote: »

I'm using vamp myself right now and I get a kick out of the "Get out of the way" argument. I just know that if I want you dead, Im going to charge at you to stay on top of you, and its going to stun you. You're not getting away.

Now; there are more effective ways to get a single target like that and bat swarm is wasted on a single target, but a lot of times the crowd has no idea whats going on behind them and other bads. Or the one guy trying to get away is moving in the same direction as everyone else providing a target to charge right at the lot of them.

That's a nice forum argument but in reality any decent player will just watch you kill the couple of zerglings then range you down . Good luck stunning me when I'm dodgerolling every time I see you trying.

kitsinni

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Obus wrote: »

There is a thing called roll dodge. If you spend your stamina on other things, is your problem.

That would take paying attention at all instead of mashing your IWIN button though. Dodgeroll and spread out in 2 seconds, vamp dead.

I find when it happens it is usually more than one DK doing it and they are spamming talons so much even when you dodge roll you are right back in talons.

Attorneyatlawl

kitsinni wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Obus wrote: »

There is a thing called roll dodge. If you spend your stamina on other things, is your problem.

That would take paying attention at all instead of mashing your IWIN button though. Dodgeroll and spread out in 2 seconds, vamp dead.

I find when it happens it is usually more than one DK doing it and they are spamming talons so much even when you dodge roll you are right back in talons.

Dodgeroll twice . Out of stam? Gonna die? Pop a tripot between rolls.

jrgray93

The Silver Bolts argument is no good either. Most vamps spamming this crap take steps to be CC immune, so it's just basically a 5% chance to deal significant damage, which is immediately negated by the bat heal or other damage shields, to say nothing of invisible vamps in the swarm. Not to mention, that's just a stamina dump.

Obus

jrgray93 wrote: »

The Silver Bolts argument is no good either. Most vamps spamming this crap take steps to be CC immune, so it's just basically a 5% chance to deal significant damage, which is immediately negated by the bat heal or other damage shields, to say nothing of invisible vamps in the swarm. Not to mention, that's just a stamina dump.

So then is vamp skill line fault? Or clever players that use immovable? . Swarm doesn't make you immune to nothing. Even if the vamp is invisible isn't immune...

kitsinni

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Obus wrote: »

There is a thing called roll dodge. If you spend your stamina on other things, is your problem.

That would take paying attention at all instead of mashing your IWIN button though. Dodgeroll and spread out in 2 seconds, vamp dead.

I find when it happens it is usually more than one DK doing it and they are spamming talons so much even when you dodge roll you are right back in talons.

Dodgeroll twice . Out of stam? Gonna die? Pop a tripot between rolls.

You dodgeroll twice and get talons a third time .. by the time you get 4-5 dodge rolls off you are dead. I just think it sound a lot easier than it is in practice because DK's swarm. On a siege it is very common for the enemy push to be multiple bats, multiple standards and 5+ people spamming talons.

Attorneyatlawl

kitsinni wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Obus wrote: »

There is a thing called roll dodge. If you spend your stamina on other things, is your problem.

That would take paying attention at all instead of mashing your IWIN button though. Dodgeroll and spread out in 2 seconds, vamp dead.

I find when it happens it is usually more than one DK doing it and they are spamming talons so much even when you dodge roll you are right back in talons.

Dodgeroll twice . Out of stam? Gonna die? Pop a tripot between rolls.

You dodgeroll twice and get talons a third time .. by the time you get 4-5 dodge rolls off you are dead. I just think it sound a lot easier than it is in practice because DK's swarm. On a siege it is very common for the enemy push to be multiple bats, multiple standards and 5+ people spamming talons.

I don't think I've *EVER* been re-rooted after 2 rolls unless I am in a bad position due to my own fault in the first place on a push. If pushing in with my group we pop retreating man. anyway

Decimus_Rex

This skill linked with the any AOE/ CC spammer player is to powerful

You will have those that hate these ideas because they cant spam other skills on top of BS for obvious reasons

Yeah,it's a lot of fun being able to clear out a zerg ball all by your ONEzies.

It's time for the UBER, I spam two buttons and kill 12 people as I run in circles to think and plan

Now they would have to pick and choose there targets not just blanket AOE some skills for a maximum killing field

technohic

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I'm using vamp myself right now and I get a kick out of the "Get out of the way" argument. I just know that if I want you dead, Im going to charge at you to stay on top of you, and its going to stun you. You're not getting away.

Now; there are more effective ways to get a single target like that and bat swarm is wasted on a single target, but a lot of times the crowd has no idea whats going on behind them and other bads. Or the one guy trying to get away is moving in the same direction as everyone else providing a target to charge right at the lot of them.

That's a nice forum argument but in reality any decent player will just watch you kill the couple of zerglings then range you down . Good luck stunning me when I'm dodgerolling every time I see you trying.

That's the thing. Don't have to even stun you. As long as I stay right on top of you.

And obviously you keep track of your surrounding to not be gunned down from range, unless you make a suicide run.

RedMiniStapler

How about this? Instead of nerf, when vamps enter cyrodiil, bat swarm automatically converts to butterfly swarm and it tickles you to death, and vampires can't move or use abilities while butterfly swarm is active . And once the vampires leave cyrodii, they get bat swarm back.

jrgray93

Obus wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

The Silver Bolts argument is no good either. Most vamps spamming this crap take steps to be CC immune, so it's just basically a 5% chance to deal significant damage, which is immediately negated by the bat heal or other damage shields, to say nothing of invisible vamps in the swarm. Not to mention, that's just a stamina dump.

So then is vamp skill line fault? Or clever players that use immovable? . Swarm doesn't make you immune to nothing. Even if the vamp is invisible isn't immune...

Nothing clever about it. Just another broken mechanic. Immovable should be restricted to people with mostly heavy armor. Most people use it with light armor. I'm just saying, stuns and such are unreliable. Different issue but it's a factor to consider

Maulkin

kitsinni wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Obus wrote: »

There is a thing called roll dodge. If you spend your stamina on other things, is your problem.

That would take paying attention at all instead of mashing your IWIN button though. Dodgeroll and spread out in 2 seconds, vamp dead.

I find when it happens it is usually more than one DK doing it and they are spamming talons so much even when you dodge roll you are right back in talons.

Dodgeroll twice . Out of stam? Gonna die? Pop a tripot between rolls.

You dodgeroll twice and get talons a third time .. by the time you get 4-5 dodge rolls off you are dead. I just think it sound a lot easier than it is in practice because DK's swarm. On a siege it is very common for the enemy push to be multiple bats, multiple standards and 5+ people spamming talons.

When you dodge roll you get 3 secs immunity. Also on my DK, I couldn't care less for the Vamp dmg. With Green Dragon Blood and holding block, I can soak up the AoE + Impulse from two players easily. 3 is a stretch, but then that's taking damage from 3 different ulties + player attacks so....

Anyhow, like I've said before the problem for me is the cost. The 128 ult on my sorc for a PBAoE ultie that makes me invisible and allows me to cast through it is I think too little. The only thing it needs is an increase to a 200-225 range.

The_Drexill

Just to address a few comments, I wont quote them directly:

I'm a vamp, keep that in mind.

The 50% fire damage is irrelevant. Use a jewel enchant, and I don't know the difference.

Moving out of bat swarm is nearly impossible. The move out of the AoE argument doesnt really work in ESO, since the person AoEing moves with you... there's no cast times.

ThisOnePosts

Obus wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

The Silver Bolts argument is no good either. Most vamps spamming this crap take steps to be CC immune, so it's just basically a 5% chance to deal significant damage, which is immediately negated by the bat heal or other damage shields, to say nothing of invisible vamps in the swarm. Not to mention, that's just a stamina dump.

So then is vamp skill line fault? Or clever players that use immovable? . Swarm doesn't make you immune to nothing. Even if the vamp is invisible isn't immune...

Exactly.

I really hate associating myself with PVPers since most are the whiniest bunch of ******* in the world of gaming. I mean I PVE ofc, but I PVP too and it's like Kleenex sends them out into the world of gaming in order to increase revenue and advertise.

In what situations are you getting constantly talon'd and batswarmed????? What about talon'd while his Temp buddy does Nova? Or NB buddy throws down veil? Or Sorc buddy summons a storm atro? Or uses Negate? Keep a stamina pot on hand if you constantly have problems with this or redistribute more points to stamina!!! Simple. I never, EVER run into this issue. I'll dodge roll out of Talons all day and I only have a few points put into stamina and 2 glyphs on one char, 0 glyphs on the other. This is a very simple mechanic... also Batswarm has an obvious look to it and if you don't see it.... since it is apparent some of you play with your monitors off so hopefully you are setup to still get sound, yes? So you should hear it no problem since that tell is a very obvious one.

So far reading through ,it seems most DO NOT agree with the OP. So L2P the rest of you, there are many skills available and ways to craft your character, if this is a constant problem for you amazingly and it is NOT for most others as you can read here, you are doing something wrong and time to go back to the drawing board.

Syndy

I am not going to go into detail about why it is OP, most that use it know it is OP. The rest are just trying to get a little more time with their faceroll FotM build.

You know something is imbalanced when 80% of the PvP population are vampires... I'll give a you hint, it's not because 80% of the people want their character to look like they have never seen the light of day with red eyes...

technohic

Syndy wrote: »

I am not going to go into detail about why it is OP, most that use it know it is OP. The rest are just trying to get a little more time with their faceroll FotM build.

You know something is imbalanced when 80% of the PvP population are vampires... I'll give a you hint, it's not because 80% of the people want their character to look like they have never seen the light of day with red eyes...

Well; OP or just better than my other options. As a templar, nova costs way more, then I have a casting heal, and a cheap melee attack that is lackluster to say the least.

I'm thinking maybe some other abilities could use a little love whether BS is OP or not.

kitsinni

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Obus wrote: »

There is a thing called roll dodge. If you spend your stamina on other things, is your problem.

That would take paying attention at all instead of mashing your IWIN button though. Dodgeroll and spread out in 2 seconds, vamp dead.

I find when it happens it is usually more than one DK doing it and they are spamming talons so much even when you dodge roll you are right back in talons.

Dodgeroll twice . Out of stam? Gonna die? Pop a tripot between rolls.

You dodgeroll twice and get talons a third time .. by the time you get 4-5 dodge rolls off you are dead. I just think it sound a lot easier than it is in practice because DK's swarm. On a siege it is very common for the enemy push to be multiple bats, multiple standards and 5+ people spamming talons.

When you dodge roll you get 3 secs immunity. Also on my DK, I couldn't care less for the Vamp dmg. With Green Dragon Blood and holding block, I can soak up the AoE + Impulse from two players easily. 3 is a stretch, but then that's taking damage from 3 different ulties + player attacks so....

Anyhow, like I've said before the problem for me is the cost. The 128 ult on my sorc for a PBAoE ultie that makes me invisible and allows me to cast through it is I think too little. The only thing it needs is an increase to a 200-225 range.

I thought you were supposed to get immunity but it doesn't seem to work. Is it just immunity from that player or from talons as a whole? What about the different morphs? I get the feeling you might get the immunity from one but the other half dozen DK's running out you don't get immunity from. I know I have rolled out just to be frozen in place then rolled again and stuck again instantly. Truth is you don't live passed that anyway.

Illumous

Batswarm costs far too little for all the things it does. It has some nice AoE damage, follows the players location, and allows the player to use skills with it up. No only that, the morphs either make the user invisible (so only hittable by AoE) or gives them health return that is by all accounts way too much when hitting a large group. Now its not a super amazing kills instantly ultimate, but it has been used to a level that makes it seem less like an ultimate and just a regular skill. One or two bat swarms is fine (I can handle that easy), but I am usually seeing three to four at once using immovable and streaking all around. Normally I just get out of the way, but there are so many of them its kinda impossible to get away even with Turn Undead on my bar. Its better than Nova, Veil, Corrosive Armor, and Standard, all costing much more ultimate and being much less flexible skills.

It should cost way more if you are going to be able to use skills with it active or it should be "channeled" and canceled once the player uses another skill. There is no excuse for how cheap this ultimate is.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

kitsinni wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Or better yet make it so that it doesn't hurt stationary targets at all. That way players that don't know to gtfo of AOE's will stop complaining,

How exactly do you gtfo of AOE's when it goes knockdown/stun > talons > talons > talons > talons > talons? Why even waste the stamina trying to get out when you have another one spammed before you can roll?

You do know that after you roll out of talons you're immune to it for a bit ya? I don't think you play the game.

Syndy

technohic wrote: »

Syndy wrote: »

I am not going to go into detail about why it is OP, most that use it know it is OP. The rest are just trying to get a little more time with their faceroll FotM build.

You know something is imbalanced when 80% of the PvP population are vampires... I'll give a you hint, it's not because 80% of the people want their character to look like they have never seen the light of day with red eyes...

Well; OP or just better than my other options. As a templar, nova costs way more, then I have a casting heal, and a cheap melee attack that is lackluster to say the least.

I'm thinking maybe some other abilities could use a little love whether BS is OP or not.

I will agree with you, Nova needs a cost decrease... and BS needs a major Increase.

The problem is it is better than just about all ults atm, I am not worried at all about it. ZoS will do something about it...

Regardless of what I think, or what anyone else thinks. They have statistics, they are aware of what percentage of the population is using what in cyrodiil. They know that if a vast majority of the population is using 1 ultimate over all others something must be wrong with all the other ults, or this one ult is superior and something must be done to balance it.

Soloeus

Decimus_Rex wrote: »

This skill linked with the any AOE/ CC spammer player is to powerful

You will have those that hate these ideas because they cant spam other skills on top of BS for obvious reasons

Yeah,it's a lot of fun being able to clear out a zerg ball all by your ONEzies.

It's time for the UBER, I spam two buttons and kill 12 people as I run in circles to think and plan

Now they would have to pick and choose there targets not just blanket AOE some skills for a maximum killing field

This guy gets it.

The Synch between AOE Spam and Bat Swarm is what needs to end.

Obscure

Leave bat swarm alone. Create stronger counter play elements. For example, Dawnbreaker.

Buff Dawnbreaker to:
•Damage type changed from magic to fire. Damage dealt to undead and daedra is unresistable.
•Damage against undead and daedra increased from +60% to +75%.
•Undead and Deadra killed by Dawnbreaker are always turned to ash.

Buff Flawless Dawnbreaker to:
•Increases damage with weapon attacks by 13% and an additional 17% against undead and daedra while slotted.

Buff Dawnbreaker of Smiting to:
•Undead and daedra hit below 25% health take an additional 25% damage.


Additionally I'd just recommend they change the Skilled Tracker fighter's guild passive, it bothers me. Werewolves are hounds of Hircine, a daedric prince, they have daedric blood in their veins and therefore should already be included in being affected by anything else that effects daedra in the fighter's guild skill line.

Change Skilled Tracker to:
•Detection radius increased by 7m against undead and daedra.


Counter play. Counter play. Counter play. Counter play.

Did I mention they should leave skills alone and just implement counter play? Because I think they should just add counter play.

Jaxom

Obscure wrote: »

Counter play. Counter play. Counter play. Counter play.

Did I mention they should leave skills alone and just implement counter play? Because I think they should just add counter play.

So what you are saying is to counter the play of others? But I want to continue doing what I'm doing and expect to win every time. So you are saying I can't do this?

Korinth

Jeeze.... first everyone QQ about Dragon Standard being OP < nerf>. Then everyone QQ about Talons being OP (too many snared, no way to break out) <nerf> (and this one ticks me off as it was very useful in Vet content to manage mobs..now it sucks as it MAY snare maybe 3, most of the time 1 or 2). Now we are talking about Bat Swarm (my NB is a Vamp) being OP <nerf>

I understand all the gripes with the way the skills work in PvP.... I have been caught more than once in Standard and Broken Talons in PvP pre-nerf and it just about wiped my whole group. But the nerfing for PvP really made PvE skills like Talons useless.

With weakness to fire, less health regen, if you nerf it (yes I said nerf) as stated....it will be yet another skill made useless for PvE.

kitsinni

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Or better yet make it so that it doesn't hurt stationary targets at all. That way players that don't know to gtfo of AOE's will stop complaining,

How exactly do you gtfo of AOE's when it goes knockdown/stun > talons > talons > talons > talons > talons? Why even waste the stamina trying to get out when you have another one spammed before you can roll?

You do know that after you roll out of talons you're immune to it for a bit ya? I don't think you play the game.

Until the DK next to him uses talons

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Animus0724 wrote: »

How about no, try using the skill yourself before you call it OP. The damage is mediocre at best and is easily avoidable if you just walk the other way. Wanna know what is more OP than bat swarm? Veil of blades, but no one *** about that now do they...

Vamp are already squishy as is, thats the whole point of being a vamp, you sacrifice survivability for power, vamps are balanced as is, nerfing one of their most useful skills will tip that balance, making vamps more unplayable.

And if I'm not mistaken, bat swarm has already been nerfed in both duration, size of AoE, and max amount of enemies affected. Please stop calling for nerfs and just work on your gameplay.

lol, VoB is stationary, and NBs lack the ability to one shot knock you down. Their cc is weak. Maybe you'd like to rethink that.

I switched from VoB to batswarm and the difference is massive.

Obscure

Jaxom wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Counter play. Counter play. Counter play. Counter play.

Did I mention they should leave skills alone and just implement counter play? Because I think they should just add counter play.

So what you are saying is to counter the play of others? But I want to continue doing what I'm doing and expect to win every time. So you are saying I can't do this?

Indeed! And for the low low price of an ultimate slot you should be just as nasty to a vampire as those diseased, body fluid swallowing, animated corpses are for the price of theirs.

CapuchinSeven

xChewtoyx wrote: »

Nova Sky wrote: »

Yet another proposed PvP nerf that could inadvertently affect PvE players in a negative manner.

This.

Why should your inability to deal with this in PVP affect my PVE?

Why should all PVEers pretend that because mobs can't come to forums to complain mean that something isn't pretty damn crazy powerful in all aspects of the game?

It's an ultimate that lets you do over 1k of AOE damage... and you can continue to keep using your other abilities at the same time... how anyone can defend that it's okay to keep using your other abilities is just crazy.

Nox_Aeterna

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

xChewtoyx wrote: »

Nova Sky wrote: »

Yet another proposed PvP nerf that could inadvertently affect PvE players in a negative manner.

This.

Why should your inability to deal with this in PVP affect my PVE?

Why should all PVEers pretend that because mobs can't come to forums to complain mean that something isn't pretty damn crazy powerful in all aspects of the game?

It's an ultimate that lets you do over 1k of AOE damage... and you can continue to keep using your other abilities at the same time... how anyone can defend that it's okay to keep using your other abilities is just crazy.

Ok then , time to nerf DKs standard and the sorcs storm astro ult guys , clearly something is wrong there :P.