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Update 3 (v.1.3.3) Mac ESO Client - FEEDBACK

Moonraker
Moonraker
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Zenimax have confirmed that Update 3 (v.1.3.3) should go live tomorrow, Monday 4 August (US server, EU on Tuesday 5 August);
ZOS_GinaBrunoZOS_GinaBruno admin
August 1 Staff Post
We're happy to announce that Update 3 (patch v1.3.3) will be released next Monday, August 4th. :)
source

Hopefully there should be some new Mac item/s in this main Update, so it would be good to get Mac players feedback after the update 3 in live (as we only get it the day later in EU) especially for memory issue especially in PvP.

If you have the chance to play Update 3, in either PVE or PvP, and can test memory issue for any notable changes it would be useful if you could post it here. Or if you note any other changes/ problems/ improvements.

Thanks.
Edited by Moonraker on August 3, 2014 12:54PM
  • Moonraker
    Moonraker
    ✭✭✭✭
    Mac fix going into Update 3 (v.1.3.3.) confirmed in the Version 1.3.3 Patch Notes;
    Mac Client
    General
    Fixed a memory leak in the Mac client that would cause the game to crash or perform poorly over time.
    This is specific to the memory issue though exactly to what extent it will help or resolve the issue is not specified. However it may well be a more significant change than other previous smaller (but still progressive) memory fixes.

    All feedback from PVE and especially PvP play via updated Mac client appreciated. I wont get a chance to test it until it goes live on EU server tomorrow.

    Fingers crossed.
    Edited by Moonraker on August 4, 2014 3:07PM
  • Eucken
    Eucken
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    Yes I'm also hoping that NA Mac users will comment on the stability of the client
  • Kiljaz
    Kiljaz
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    Well, as usual, still crashing with the same frequency. Thanks for nothing in this department ZoS.
  • Moonraker
    Moonraker
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    Kiljaz wrote: »
    Well, as usual, still crashing with the same frequency. Thanks for nothing in this department ZoS.
    :( Thanks for feedback even if it's not what we hoped. Other experiences would be useful especially PvP.
  • _subjectnamehere_
    _subjectnamehere_
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    Stuck in Anchorage due to heavy fog in my area. As soon as I make it home and patch, I will test. Might not be for a day or two...
  • Yandros
    Yandros
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    I will test as soon as I get home tonight and let you know.... I am sooooo hoping this update works and I can actually PvP.
  • GFBStarWars
    GFBStarWars
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    will test when eu will get the patch with different graphic setting, hope in at least a much larger game time between crashes
  • shutterbugry
    shutterbugry
    Soul Shriven
    I wish I could say I'm happy about the update, but it's now almost unplayable for me. After updating, I now have to have graphics on Low to not lag like crazy. I used to have the settings on Ultra-High. I'm unsure if it is computer or software related. I tested on other games with graphics as high as they would go (Portal 2 and Left 4 Dead 2) and everything ran fine, which leads me to think it's a game issue. I'm on a 27" Late 2013 iMac, with 3.5 GHz i7, 8 GB RAM, and GTX 780M with 4GB of video RAM. I am running OS X 10.10 Yosemite DP 5, but as I said, other games are working properly, which means it shouldn't (not couldn't) be a graphics issue on my end.
  • Moonraker
    Moonraker
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    I wish I could say I'm happy about the update, but it's now almost unplayable for me. After updating, I now have to have graphics on Low to not lag like crazy. I used to have the settings on Ultra-High. I'm unsure if it is computer or software related. I tested on other games with graphics as high as they would go (Portal 2 and Left 4 Dead 2) and everything ran fine, which leads me to think it's a game issue. I'm on a 27" Late 2013 iMac, with 3.5 GHz i7, 8 GB RAM, and GTX 780M with 4GB of video RAM. I am running OS X 10.10 Yosemite DP 5, but as I said, other games are working properly, which means it shouldn't (not couldn't) be a graphics issue on my end.
    Thanks for the update. I have the same setup so can check tomorrow when we get the update 3 in Europe.

    I know that Apple have made Yosemite available as beta and that it seems to work fine. But it is adding another layer of potential issue when trying to diagnose issues. I would suggest installing to a separate partition or external drive for testing so that current 10.9.x is available if needed.

    It would be useful to have any feedback on memory crash issue if possible.
    Edited by Moonraker on August 4, 2014 8:13PM
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Umm, usual caveats apply?
    • Update or, if not (yet) possible, disable/delete all add ons.
    • Backup, then delete ShaderCaches.cooked, so the game can generate a new one.
    • Backup/rename UserSettings.txt and start with a fresh one, to circumvent possible problematic graphic setting remnants, then adjust graphics to former level.
    Will test tomorrow, too, on a similar machine to that of @shutterbugry‌ and @Moonraker‌ (on 10.9.x).
  • Moonraker
    Moonraker
    ✭✭✭✭
    Umm, usual caveats apply?
    • Update or, if not (yet) possible, disable/delete all add ons.
    • Backup, then delete ShaderCaches.cooked, so the game can generate a new one.
    • Backup/rename UserSettings.txt and start with a fresh one, to circumvent possible problematic graphic setting remnants, then adjust graphics to former level.
    Will test tomorrow, too, on a similar machine to that of @shutterbugry‌ and @Moonraker‌ (on 10.9.x).
    All good advice as usual, especially addons after a major update.

  • shutterbugry
    shutterbugry
    Soul Shriven
    Umm, usual caveats apply?
    • Update or, if not (yet) possible, disable/delete all add ons.
    • Backup, then delete ShaderCaches.cooked, so the game can generate a new one.
    • Backup/rename UserSettings.txt and start with a fresh one, to circumvent possible problematic graphic setting remnants, then adjust graphics to former level.
    Will test tomorrow, too, on a similar machine to that of @shutterbugry‌ and @Moonraker‌ (on 10.9.x).

    Tried all of this, and I'm still getting a LOT of lag and have to play on low graphics setting, which makes all the cool new graphics they talked about meaningless. I knew what I was getting into when I started testing, but I got comfortable after the first DP and everything worked fine. :/ Oh well.

    UPDATE: I somehow fixed it. I switched everything to medium, and then turned on the elements that didn't require a reload on the UI, and then I brought those back one by one and now I'm running at high graphics with no issues. I'm stumped as to what it was, as it's still running well even with my add ons back in the mix. If it happens again, I'll be glad to try and pinpoint it more.
    Edited by shutterbugry on August 5, 2014 1:34AM
  • PrinceBoru
    PrinceBoru
    ✭✭✭✭
    I'm running ESO on my Mac and the performance has noticeably improved post patch.
    It ain't easy being green.
  • Cheesetooth
    Cheesetooth
    Soul Shriven
    UPDATE: I somehow fixed it. I switched everything to medium, and then turned on the elements that didn't require a reload on the UI, and then I brought those back one by one and now I'm running at high graphics with no issues. I'm stumped as to what it was, as it's still running well even with my add ons back in the mix. If it happens again, I'll be glad to try and pinpoint it more.

    I had a similar experience on the character selection screen. My character didn't look quite as shiny as normal so I selected the High setting on the graphics slider, but turned every setting to medium or off as I usually had them. Immediately the game had massive graphics lag. It must have been around 1-2 fps. So I turned off bloom, depth of field, distortion etc. and then turned them back on one at a time. Frame rates returned to normal after that. It must have been due to custom settings in the UserSettings.txt file I forgot to remove before running after the patch.
  • Stash
    Stash
    ✭✭
    I'm still crashing in PvP. late 2009 imac (old, I know). I tried all settings low or off, as well as turning them up a bit and still crashing with memory leak. I'm running activity monitor alongside ESO, client still crashing around 3.95GB of virtual memory. Also, there appears to be a new crash causing bug not related to memory leak, the client sometimes crashed with only 2GB or so of virtual memory used. I'm going to go try some PvE to see if that's any different.
  • Moonraker
    Moonraker
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    Stash wrote: »
    I'm still crashing in PvP. late 2009 imac (old, I know). I tried all settings low or off, as well as turning them up a bit and still crashing with memory leak. I'm running activity monitor alongside ESO, client still crashing around 3.95GB of virtual memory. Also, there appears to be a new crash causing bug not related to memory leak, the client sometimes crashed with only 2GB or so of virtual memory used. I'm going to go try some PvE to see if that's any different.
    Thanks for this feedback and for the others also.
  • Moonraker
    Moonraker
    ✭✭✭✭
    PrinceBoru wrote: »
    I'm running ESO on my Mac and the performance has noticeably improved post patch.
    Is this graphics performance or memory improvement i.e. less crashing due to memory issue? PVE and/ or PvP? Thanks.
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    UPDATE: I somehow fixed it. I switched everything to medium, and then turned on the elements that didn't require a reload on the UI, and then I brought those back one by one and now I'm running at high graphics with no issues. I'm stumped as to what it was, as it's still running well even with my add ons back in the mix. If it happens again, I'll be glad to try and pinpoint it more.

    There seems to be an issue with some internal graphics engine settings, which don't reset or reinitialize properly. But I'm stumped as to where they get saved, since all should be cleared when deleting the UserSettings.txt file. And deleting ShaderCaches.cooked should take care of any precompiled shaders.

    I've noticed in the past that from update to update, some default settings get changed for different graphic quality settings, like View Distance from 60 to 100 on Ultra High.

    Best course of action after an update seems to be to first reset the game's graphic quality setting to one of the defaults, in order to initialize every internal setting properly, and then rebuild the former customized quality from there.
  • Moonraker
    Moonraker
    ✭✭✭✭
    UPDATE: I somehow fixed it. I switched everything to medium, and then turned on the elements that didn't require a reload on the UI, and then I brought those back one by one and now I'm running at high graphics with no issues. I'm stumped as to what it was, as it's still running well even with my add ons back in the mix. If it happens again, I'll be glad to try and pinpoint it more.

    There seems to be an issue with some internal graphics engine settings, which don't reset or reinitialize properly. But I'm stumped as to where they get saved, since all should be cleared when deleting the UserSettings.txt file. And deleting ShaderCaches.cooked should take care of any precompiled shaders.

    I've noticed in the past that from update to update, some default settings get changed for different graphic quality settings, like View Distance from 60 to 100 on Ultra High.

    Best course of action after an update seems to be to first reset the game's graphic quality setting to one of the defaults, in order to initialize every internal setting properly, and then rebuild the former customized quality from there.
    The change from default 62 > 100 View Distance was a deliberate chance across clients a while back when they did the change to make the PC client work as true fullscreen. I said at the time it was a mistake as it does push fps down and increase memory load and I always set it back down from the default. This is in Ultra-High setting only.

    On how best to adjust settings the revised Known Issues sticky in this section says as much ;
    Performance hints:
    The general settings of high, medium, and low influence more than just the visible settings. They also influence the quality level of the shadows being used.
    It is generally better to start on high settings and turn off features then it is to go directly to medium settings.

    Again, this is not ideal that players should need to do changes in a certain order for them to actually function as one would expect (i.e. adjusting a setting via the options to reflect what one would expect) Or at least to be more implicit about the requirement on the actual settings panel.

    By setting to High (or Ultra-High depending on setup) you switch on all the higher features. Then by adjusting down it reduces those specific elements while having still enabled those features that would not otherwise be enabled if setting default first to Medium or lower.
    Edited by Moonraker on August 5, 2014 11:59AM
  • beng
    beng
    Same as usual. Can't reach 20 FPs in big battles and crash in about 10 minutes
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    iMac mid 2011 - 2,5 Ghz Intel Core i5 - RAM 12Go - AMD Radeon HD6750M 512Mo - OS X 10.10.2
  • Yandros
    Yandros
    ✭✭
    Tested last night... PVE was good for several hours with no issues and really liking the new gear and dyes. In PVP I still crashed after 20 mins like before. No lag issues in either PVE or PVP. just the crash. restarted client each time, Logged back in...., rezzed.... 20 mins later... repeat... :-(
  • PrinceBoru
    PrinceBoru
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    Moonraker wrote: »
    Is this graphics performance or memory improvement i.e. less crashing due to memory issue? PVE and/ or PvP? Thanks.

    Both. I just don't seem to have the problems others experience with PvE or PvP. I don't know why. While playing I keep Cocktail, a maintenance utility, running and it is set to purge inactive memory every fifteen minutes. Don't know if it makes a difference purging memory while the game is running, but hey, works for me.

    It ain't easy being green.
  • _subjectnamehere_
    _subjectnamehere_
    ✭✭✭
    My FPS is really bad. I am going to try the aformentioned steps above and see what happens. This is only in PvE, especially in combat. I have not done any PvP yet due to the ongoing issues with the Mac client...I just don't want to risk it until I am 100% sure they have solved the problems, and by reading these posts, I can tell they haven't.

    What is Cocktail? Is it worth running? Does it solve the memory leak issue?
  • Aranweh
    Aranweh
    Hello Guys. Here in EU i'm just trying to download the 1.3 patch…first step to… what? I post here because a few french speakers players are playing on Mac and the Mac support section forum is… dead.

    When i read your comments in this english speakers section, I'm really scared.
    The Mac client does not work better so in 1.3?
    5 months of waiting for what… i'll do myself the experience but really it so boring now…

    I love this game but I think that we have no choice except for playing with bootcamp with a windows 7.

    In 2014…. how can you still develop games in 32bit? Do you will reimburse all the game time to your mac pvp clients?
    Edited by Aranweh on August 5, 2014 3:45PM
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    PrinceBoru wrote: »
    Both. I just don't seem to have the problems others experience with PvE or PvP. I don't know why. While playing I keep Cocktail, a maintenance utility, running and it is set to purge inactive memory every fifteen minutes. Don't know if it makes a difference purging memory while the game is running, but hey, works for me.

    Most certainly it doesn't, since every process is responsible for its own memory management and garbage collection. Managing/altering another processes's memory resources would be a clear violation of the protected memory model and would lead to an exception raised by the OS, followed by a subsequent termination of the offending process. I haven't seen anything like it since ye olden DOS times. ;)

    Having looked at it, Cocktail is just one of many other "maintenance" tools like e.g. Onyx, which is free btw. All they ever do is to collect shell scripts, commands, and system calls, i.e. stuff that's already built in by default, and which the OS eventually does by itself, under a graphical UI for easy(er) access.

    E.g. Cocktails advertised feature, "Purge inactive memory and optimize virtual memory usage" is just the command
    purge (8)
    
    (which, in and by itself, is pretty useless, unless you're a developer who wants to test their software's behavior under certain conditions, e.g. how buffer initialization behaves. Every modern OS is pretty capable of effectively allotting processes the memory resources they need.)
    Edited by KhajitFurTrader on August 5, 2014 4:01PM
  • _subjectnamehere_
    _subjectnamehere_
    ✭✭✭
    PrinceBoru wrote: »
    Both. I just don't seem to have the problems others experience with PvE or PvP. I don't know why. While playing I keep Cocktail, a maintenance utility, running and it is set to purge inactive memory every fifteen minutes. Don't know if it makes a difference purging memory while the game is running, but hey, works for me.

    Most certainly it doesn't, since every process is responsible for its own memory management and garbage collection. Managing/altering another processes's memory resources would be a clear violation of the protected memory model and would lead to an exception raised by the OS, followed by a subsequent termination of the offending process. I haven't seen anything like it since ye olden DOS times. ;)

    Having looked at it, Cocktail is just one of many other "maintenance" tools like e.g. Onyx, which is free btw. All they ever do is to collect shell scripts, commands, and system calls, i.e. stuff that's already built in by default, and which the OS eventually does by itself, under a graphical UI for easy(er) access.

    E.g. Cocktails advertised feature, "Purge inactive memory and optimize virtual memory usage" is just the command
    purge (8)
    
    (which, in and by itself, is pretty useless, unless you're a developer who wants to test their software's behavior under certain conditions, e.g. how buffer initialization behaves. Every modern OS is pretty capable of effectively allotting processes the memory resources they need.)

    I see.

    Well...I guess the only solution then is to wait and see if ZOS fixes it the next time they roll out a patch.

    *sigh*
  • viktorcodeneb18_ESO
    Here’s what I found:

    1. VM crash when running out of address space is still present. TBH I haven’t thought it will be fixed in this patch. Best bet is 64-bit client. And I understand all of you who thought that fixed memory leak will prevent all the crashes, and ended up frustrated. Please, understand developers too. Fixed memory leak is always better than the one left out. And fixing almost uncontrollable virtual memory space consumption is a very hard task, because only part of that memory is used by the game, the other part is used by the OS services, which you can’t control, at least directly. So… let’s wait for 64 bits.

    2. New fullscreen windowed mode! Thank you for this one, now I can play fullscreen with VSYNC turned on without terrible performance drop! But here’s the thing, which looks like a bug: this mode was enabled for me by default, and with VSYNC off out of the box it was lagging like hell right on the characters screen. Turning VSYNC on actually increased performance in that mode. Few people in this thread mentioned FPS drop — check your video mode, guys. Also, don’t forget to quit the game after changing settings! Why? Because when game crashes they won’t be saved.
  • Deimos
    Deimos
    Here’s what I found:
    2. New fullscreen windowed mode! Thank you for this one, now I can play fullscreen with VSYNC turned on without terrible performance drop! But here’s the thing, which looks like a bug: this mode was enabled for me by default, and with VSYNC off out of the box it was lagging like hell right on the characters screen. Turning VSYNC on actually increased performance in that mode. Few people in this thread mentioned FPS drop — check your video mode, guys. Also, don’t forget to quit the game after changing settings! Why? Because when game crashes they won’t be saved.

    Can confirm, enabling VSYNC fixed terrible lag in character selection screen and stuttering in game for me.
  • _subjectnamehere_
    _subjectnamehere_
    ✭✭✭
    2. New fullscreen windowed mode! Thank you for this one, now I can play fullscreen with VSYNC turned on without terrible performance drop! But here’s the thing, which looks like a bug: this mode was enabled for me by default, and with VSYNC off out of the box it was lagging like hell right on the characters screen. Turning VSYNC on actually increased performance in that mode. Few people in this thread mentioned FPS drop — check your video mode, guys. Also, don’t forget to quit the game after changing settings! Why? Because when game crashes they won’t be saved.

    I am getting terrible FPS issues everywhere....people or no people. I am not in this mode that you mentioned (checked it) and my VSYNC on or off does not change anything.
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    I've just quested for 3+ hours in Alik'r. No crashes, no lags, no stuttering, no low FPS rates, no low res textures. Playing on Fullscreen, native 27" 2560x1440 resolution on Ultra High quality setting (no custom changes), VSYNC is off. With VSYNC on, frame rates drop to half and below.
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