Elder Wars 2 Volume 3 (The Perfect AOE cap video)

Xsorus

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2BqTrX8zVk&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

I can't think of a better video to show how bloody horrible AOE caps are for your game.

Cody

lovely. don't know what to think of the EP players doing it:/ oh. and btw, where did you get the awesome music???????

Cody

seriously though, that's pretty bad. no way those players should still be alive after all that crap yall threw at them. I hope something gets done at some point

Cody

that music though.... bout near the end... I heard it from something.. dynasty warriors maybe?

Trayyacakes

NookyZooky wrote: »

lovely. don't know what to think of the EP players doing it:/ oh. and btw, where did you get the awesome music???????

This isn't on those players. This is all on ZOS. The player base spoke out against the AOE caps months ago when we became aware of them, but our words fell on def ears. It has gone far enough. eliminate AOE caps and that group would have spread out before @xsorusb14_ESO‌ even arrived there from a small bomb group rushing them, and the healing springs spam and impulse spam would have stopped there.

I also see you are getting stuck and your bar is going grey after invasion too. Unfortunately I can't blame that on AOE caps as it has happened to me in PVE and PVP.

The shot at 5:07 is great too. You are clearly in a bat swarm, and taking 0 damage, and you all were even somewhat spread out.

ZOS did comment on this recently. Stating they would "look into" AOE caps with the pvp and game play teams. I hope they do the right thing.

Cody

I agree its on ZOS! PvP should not be "watch huge blobs not die". AOE caps needs to be took off, and you should only be allowed to use the heavy armor ultimate if you have 5 or more heavy pieces equipped. players should also be discouraged from doing this crap as much as possible.

Xsorus

@NookyZooky‌

Music was pulled from Newgrounds Music section, usually pretty good place to find random music for videos

But anyway, yeap...I don't blame players at all for doing it, ZOS set up the rules currently despite massive amounts of us saying don't do it, Namely because we saw what happened in Guild Wars 2. So Players are doing what they are based on the current rules.

But yes...Remove the AOE caps, and you'll get rid of that crap fairly quickly.

Samadhi

The sooner ZOS removes AoE caps, the better. For everyone everyone in PvP.

Morvul

and before someone starts with the argument: "well, if the siege equipment were not bugging out due to the zerg-balls lag, the zerg ball would be dead"
nope, it would not be - with non-bugged siege the zergball would have to run circles through the siege-operators to stay alive, instead of not moving at all, but nothing else would change

Xsorus

Yea pretty much that ball would just have to be moving and all siege would be useless against it

Attorneyatlawl

Trayyacakes wrote: »

ZOS did comment on this recently. Stating they would "look into" AOE caps with the pvp and game play teams. I hope they do the right thing.

Me too.... they really need to be out. They are bad for strategy and the health of the game, its gameplay (depth and substance), and skill-based organization.

quakedawg_ESO

That is pretty sad. Personally I've never experienced this issue but royally sucks even if it happens to just one person. Nice to finally have Dev respond. I did read somewhere that the Wabba server has a known issue that is causing problems.

For what it's worth, Dawnbreaker has its share of giant groups packed together but I never hear of it causing server issues.

Cody

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

That is pretty sad. Personally I've never experienced this issue but royally sucks even if it happens to just one person. Nice to finally have Dev respond. I did read somewhere that the Wabba server has a known issue that is causing problems.

For what it's worth, Dawnbreaker has its share of giant groups packed together but I never hear of it causing server issues.

should have seen it on wabba a few days ago. 60+ people would get together, and assault a keep, spamming all their heals and AOEs and all that nice stuff. server crashed 5 minutes later:/

TheBucket

Samadhi wrote: »

The sooner ZOS removes AoE caps, the better. For everyone everyone in PvP.

Removing caps isn't the answer. Never will be... It's not as simple as that.

Xsorus

I think it is

Saet

I dont see the reason for AOE caps to begin with. If I cast a big damn circle of flame and you step in it you should burn regardless of how many other people are also in the area burning. I do hate the zerg balls you see roaming around constantly casting their regeneration even when they are all full of health. Does this still build up ultimate?

Samadhi

TheBucket wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

The sooner ZOS removes AoE caps, the better. For everyone everyone in PvP.

Removing caps isn't the answer. Never will be... It's not as simple as that.

Then you are likely asking the wrong question.

We are asking "how can we fix the zergball issue and the issues that come with it?"
In this case, removing AoE caps is the answer -- on the flip side, having AoE caps is the reason people do it.

Krinaman

This video was taken during a complete and total lag fest where you couldn't hurt each other.

I left this spot to chase a scroll and literally ran through AD entire group from the back all the way to the front where the scroll carrier was completely solo and none of them could touch me.

All this video shows is that they need to fix their broken lag fest game.

Xsorus

Krinaman wrote: »

This video was taken during a complete and total lag fest where you couldn't hurt each other.

I left this spot to chase a scroll and literally ran through AD entire group from the back all the way to the front where the scroll carrier was completely solo and none of them could touch me.

All this video shows is that they need to fix their broken lag fest game.

And what was causing that lag.....

Go on..I'll wait for those hamsters to get to work.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO

Krinaman wrote: »

This video was taken during a complete and total lag fest where you couldn't hurt each other.

I left this spot to chase a scroll and literally ran through AD entire group from the back all the way to the front where the scroll carrier was completely solo and none of them could touch me.

All this video shows is that they need to fix their broken lag fest game.

This happens when a zergball is around all the time for me since that patch. Now zergballing is becoming popular it just makes pvp unplayable.

Phaedrus

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5NV4K1RtBnY&feature=youtu.be

Here is the same video from the EP side.

I wasn't in the group and kinda just fell into the situation. I remember we got pushed back from the wall at Rayles and fell back to the Mill. A lot of us balled up at the flag and dropped oil.

I was set up for Solo PvP so my skill line was really not setup at all for this situation.

I didn't realize the seige wasn't working for DC, I kept looking around like "Man that seige should be owning us right now." Also it seems like the lag was worse outside the ball than inside? Not sure maybe just perception but inside it seemed like we were dealing damage taking damage healing etc, but your video has several moments when you are just stuck in shield charge or fighting and not dealing or receiving damage.

Not sure if seige started working at the end or if the main group just gave up healing/barries to go elsewhere.

Anyways just thought it would be cool to show both sides.

SBR_QuorTek

All this video show is that they need to fix the lag... I find it interesting that no one actually threw aoes into the blob... it is not like it was moving at all and there is a bunch of ranged aoes that could be used for it.

Removing AOE caps would not be the answer though.

Other small fixes would be better, such as rapid maneuver ONLY provide speed buff, to use immoveable only users that has 5 pieces of heavy armor equipped and much much more.

Removing AOE caps would cause a big problem because some classes do not have this or that AOE thing as it is and those people would be the victims, also if something break and become totally OP aoe wise it would just be the same thing as with AOE caps enabled.

As it is we do not live in happy land where everyone will behave.

krim

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Krinaman wrote: »

This video was taken during a complete and total lag fest where you couldn't hurt each other.

I left this spot to chase a scroll and literally ran through AD entire group from the back all the way to the front where the scroll carrier was completely solo and none of them could touch me.

All this video shows is that they need to fix their broken lag fest game.

And what was causing that lag.....

Go on..I'll wait for those hamsters to get to work.

Its obviously preventing a mechanical invulnerability and the optimum strategy that results from it is lag. Honestly i dont know but i thought this line from a post yesterday was hilarious so i stole it, and altered it a bit.

Xsorus

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

All this video show is that they need to fix the lag... I find it interesting that no one actually threw aoes into the blob... it is not like it was moving at all and there is a bunch of ranged aoes that could be used for it.

Removing AOE caps would not be the answer though.

Other small fixes would be better, such as rapid maneuver ONLY provide speed buff, to use immoveable only users that has 5 pieces of heavy armor equipped and much much more.

Removing AOE caps would cause a big problem because some classes do not have this or that AOE thing as it is and those people would be the victims, also if something break and become totally OP aoe wise it would just be the same thing as with AOE caps enabled.

As it is we do not live in happy land where everyone will behave.

People were throwing AOE's into the blob, However...When you have the blob standing there, You're not killing it with AOE damage because its randomly hitting 6 people. I mean..We've had entire threads pointing out how completely moronic that notion is, and how throwing AOE's into this clump doesn't work, But you keep repeating it over and over....

Rapid Maneuver and Immoveable also wouldn't do a damn thing there, Because they weren't moving.

SBR_QuorTek

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

All this video show is that they need to fix the lag... I find it interesting that no one actually threw aoes into the blob... it is not like it was moving at all and there is a bunch of ranged aoes that could be used for it.

Removing AOE caps would not be the answer though.

Other small fixes would be better, such as rapid maneuver ONLY provide speed buff, to use immoveable only users that has 5 pieces of heavy armor equipped and much much more.

Removing AOE caps would cause a big problem because some classes do not have this or that AOE thing as it is and those people would be the victims, also if something break and become totally OP aoe wise it would just be the same thing as with AOE caps enabled.

As it is we do not live in happy land where everyone will behave.

People were throwing AOE's into the blob, However...When you have the blob standing there, You're not killing it with AOE damage because its randomly hitting 6 people. I mean..We've had entire threads pointing out how completely moronic that notion is, and how throwing AOE's into this clump doesn't work, But you keep repeating it over and over....

Rapid Maneuver and Immoveable also wouldn't do a damn thing there, Because they weren't moving.

But being able to hit all.. all the time no matter amount of People do not seem OP to you? Just asking out of curiousity.

Rather look into the tendency of what people use, so many wear light armor... does it not occur that half the problem rely into that... improving the other types of armor as well as making restrictions to bonusses, meaning one would have to wear at least 5 of the given type to benefit from this and that.

I do not defend the 1 hit button strategy, I think it is *** as well.. but I think the problem should be fixed in other ways and also in ways so it is not like.. 'that is how they did it in daoc' or whichever else game, it should come down to.. 'this is how we do it in teso'

Wishing for more creative ways of playing the game and not like 'I fight guuuut... me use cluuub' ways AOE without caps would not solve any of that other than either quicker fights or severe abuse of AOE still lol.

Trayyacakes

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

All this video show is that they need to fix the lag... I find it interesting that no one actually threw aoes into the blob... it is not like it was moving at all and there is a bunch of ranged aoes that could be used for it.

Removing AOE caps would not be the answer though.

Other small fixes would be better, such as rapid maneuver ONLY provide speed buff, to use immoveable only users that has 5 pieces of heavy armor equipped and much much more.

Removing AOE caps would cause a big problem because some classes do not have this or that AOE thing as it is and those people would be the victims, also if something break and become totally OP aoe wise it would just be the same thing as with AOE caps enabled.

As it is we do not live in happy land where everyone will behave.

People were throwing AOE's into the blob, However...When you have the blob standing there, You're not killing it with AOE damage because its randomly hitting 6 people. I mean..We've had entire threads pointing out how completely moronic that notion is, and how throwing AOE's into this clump doesn't work, But you keep repeating it over and over....

Rapid Maneuver and Immoveable also wouldn't do a damn thing there, Because they weren't moving.

But being able to hit all.. all the time no matter amount of People do not seem OP to you? Just asking out of curiousity.

Rather look into the tendency of what people use, so many wear light armor... does it not occur that half the problem rely into that... improving the other types of armor as well as making restrictions to bonusses, meaning one would have to wear at least 5 of the given type to benefit from this and that.

I do not defend the 1 hit button strategy, I think it is *** as well.. but I think the problem should be fixed in other ways and also in ways so it is not like.. 'that is how they did it in daoc' or whichever else game, it should come down to.. 'this is how we do it in teso'

Wishing for more creative ways of playing the game and not like 'I fight guuuut... me use cluuub' ways AOE without caps would not solve any of that other than either quicker fights or severe abuse of AOE still lol.

AOE without a cap is only as OP as your opposition allows it to be. If they ball up you will hit all of them. If they spread out, you know not stand in red like games are suppose to work, than it isn't really that OP is it?

Also with the upcoming changes to CC DKs wouldn't be able to just rush in and drop a standard while spamming talons and win because you can't get rooted during your dodge roll and after 1.3 you will have a short immunity to roots afterwards.

If you leave the caps the stacking will continue. Change immovable to require 5 pcs of heavy and you have only changed 2 things.
1. 6 random people will now be negated because they won't have immovable to stop it, so they will cc break out of it instead. Not a game changer.
2. A dk will be able to chain pull one of those members out of the zerg, and he may die if you have enough coordination to focus him through his barrier and through all the rapid regens flying out that he will still be in range of.

It won't Make Volcanic rune suddenly awesome. They will have enough stam for break free sense they aren't spending it on immovable. The only thing it may change is they may require there templars slot Radiant Aura for more stam regen for more "Break Frees"

Take away AOE caps and you force these groups to spread out. The larger force will still win most of the time. Most of us, I won't say all because there is always a few, aren't asking for the removal of AOE caps, so we can defeat 50+ with 8 people. We want more diverse gameplay. Make the zerg spread out. Make people actually fear choke points. Give small stealth groups a chance to chip away at the zerg.

Zerg balling being the best response to AOE abilities is just dumb. It isn't logical. Why does anyone want a game that has those mechanics?

SBR_QuorTek

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Take away AOE caps and you force these groups to spread out. The larger force will still win most of the time. Most of us, I won't say all because there is always a few, aren't asking for the removal of AOE caps, so we can defeat 50+ with 8 people. We want more diverse gameplay. Make the zerg spread out. Make people actually fear choke points. Give small stealth groups a chance to chip away at the zerg.

Ok so how would make sure that 7 people that clever enough just the right composition... sneak in... and murder a group of 80 people who are rallying up for a big battle... eg. with using spies.. or being there at the right time.

You know it would be possible to do such, though probably 'rare' (certainly would not mind to wipe 80 people or the most of them myself could be fun lol)

Columba

no aoe caps just allows a few elitists to troll the crap out of people. no thanks. i've seen the impact of this, and it's annoying as hell.

FENGRUSH

Apparently having fewer people kill more is trolling. Shouldnt you add exploiting to the list too?

Trayyacakes

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Take away AOE caps and you force these groups to spread out. The larger force will still win most of the time. Most of us, I won't say all because there is always a few, aren't asking for the removal of AOE caps, so we can defeat 50+ with 8 people. We want more diverse gameplay. Make the zerg spread out. Make people actually fear choke points. Give small stealth groups a chance to chip away at the zerg.

Ok so how would make sure that 7 people that clever enough just the right composition... sneak in... and murder a group of 80 people who are rallying up for a big battle... eg. with using spies.. or being there at the right time.

You know it would be possible to do such, though probably 'rare' (certainly would not mind to wipe 80 people or the most of them myself could be fun lol)

Surely someone in that group of 80 is running magelight yes? Surely they are also stealthed while they group to buff as well.

Also you put diminishing returns on the AOE. See this thread. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/121403/suggestion-ways-to-balance-aoe-abilities-without-an-arbitrary-target-caphttp://

It was written by @frosth.darkomenb16_ESO‌ not me, but he has gone through the trouble of listing a few ways have no caps, and still balance AOE.

SBR_QuorTek

Trayyacakes wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Take away AOE caps and you force these groups to spread out. The larger force will still win most of the time. Most of us, I won't say all because there is always a few, aren't asking for the removal of AOE caps, so we can defeat 50+ with 8 people. We want more diverse gameplay. Make the zerg spread out. Make people actually fear choke points. Give small stealth groups a chance to chip away at the zerg.

Ok so how would make sure that 7 people that clever enough just the right composition... sneak in... and murder a group of 80 people who are rallying up for a big battle... eg. with using spies.. or being there at the right time.

You know it would be possible to do such, though probably 'rare' (certainly would not mind to wipe 80 people or the most of them myself could be fun lol)

Surely someone in that group of 80 is running magelight yes? Surely they are also stealthed while they group to buff as well.

Also you put diminishing returns on the AOE. See this thread. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/121403/suggestion-ways-to-balance-aoe-abilities-without-an-arbitrary-target-caphttp://

It was written by @frosth.darkomenb16_ESO‌ not me, but he has gone through the trouble of listing a few ways have no caps, and still balance AOE.

Mage light is like 12 meters? and add the spy to the scenario... all the person has to do is to 'accidently' pop out of stealth as a beacon.... with 80 people around no one would probably notice that either... could pop stealth potions per 30 seconds though for being able to see more far out.. but eventually one will run out of pots as well.

I think the solution remain in other things, fix a bunch of small things which people probably would refere to nerfs, which it is not, for an instance all other weapon types and armor other than light armor having a severe buff up to it could do wonders for diversity.

Lower the cap of groups instead to 8 or 12 people only could be another actually better solution.