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Will classes even matter after spell crafting?
DanteVFenris
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My biggest fear is what will happen to staves and mages guild. They seem totally useless compared to what this system is offering. While I'm all for this spell crafting it's going to be awsome. What's going to stop from everyone playing these abilities? Why should I be a night blade if I can get a list of illusion spells.
So it's a double edged sword, it frees up the classes but also might make classes not as valuable. Though there are some class abilities that will stand out. I'm mostly worried about the mages guild.
I also I want to hear what they have to make stamina abilities just as badass. They need a version for stamina builds. Like "disciple training" or something where you seek out masters in certain arms.
Though again on a side note I do think it's for the best.
So it's a double edged sword, it frees up the classes but also might make classes not as valuable. Though there are some class abilities that will stand out. I'm mostly worried about the mages guild.
I also I want to hear what they have to make stamina abilities just as badass. They need a version for stamina builds. Like "disciple training" or something where you seek out masters in certain arms.
Though again on a side note I do think it's for the best.
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Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Well the Devs have always stated that classes were just Templates and in the long run classes WONT matter you will just play as you want.
That being said it is NICE to have some starting abilities to help propel you through the game to help make that perfect character and mix and match abilities.
As for Stamina abilities the Devs are looking to add more Stamina abilities to the game and are still attempting to balance Stamina and Magicka.
Spellcrafting will add some MUCH needed longevity to the game with a touch of exploration to find all these components. You will even have to visist 1-50 favored zones again....though that will probably be short lived.10 -
Mondo✭✭✭✭Everybody wanted full free choice what they play- There is it !
I think Class spells will stay better because you can level them to 50Im not the Hero you need, im the Troll you deserve!
- Survived the WoW Pre LK Rogue Forum "Come at me Bro" -
L2P = Accept that DK is OP and stop complaining4 -
Logan9a✭✭✭The impression I got after reading up on it was through spell crafting, you make new ultimates.
That's about it.
Disappointing to me.
Personally, if they did away with the whole class system and went to a true 'play what you want' that would be great.7 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭Everybody wanted full free choice what they play- There is it !
I think Class spells will stay better because you can level them to 50
You can level the new ones, by school, to 50.
Also, you need to do a lot of stuff to learn the base spells to craft.
(or money to buy crafted spells from others).
Classes are still valid for starting out.5 -
Malpherian✭✭✭✭✭DanteVFenris wrote: »My biggest fear is what will happen to staves and mages guild. They seem totally useless compared to what this system is offering. While I'm all for this spell crafting it's going to be awsome. What's going to stop from everyone playing these abilities? Why should I be a night blade if I can get a list of illusion spells.
So it's a double edged sword, it frees up the classes but also might make classes not as valuable. Though there are some class abilities that will stand out. I'm mostly worried about the mages guild.
I also I want to hear what they have to make stamina abilities just as badass. They need a version for stamina builds. Like "disciple training" or something where you seek out masters in certain arms.
Though again on a side note I do think it's for the best.
Like I said, this is TES game, classes are not supposed to have "Value". They are simply something to give you a nudge in the direction you want to develop your character in, with some starting abilities, Nothing else.
Character development is a personal thing, and rather then most games where you pick a class and play that class and playing that class is "the game" and never goes beyond such.
With a TES game it's the opposite, the game is about "YOU" and "YOUR" journey to develop your character into whoever, or whatever you want them to be, pretty much without limit or restriction.
Hence the reason many TES fans refused to buy the game when it released with restricted clases, as we classified it as "just another wow clone". Now, once this has been implemented it wil become something far more, and greater then WoW could ever be.
And hey, maybe the TES fans will come back.
Edited by Malpherian on July 21, 2014 2:10PM11 -
kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was debating those same points after QuakeCon:- Will Spell Crafting make class skills obsolete after 1-50? If so, do we need to have them at all?
- The system looks amazing, but it's magicka focused. How do you balance stamina builds?
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I share the concern to some extent. It's a difficult balance to strike: if spell-crafted spells are better or even similar in efficiency to class spells then the only differentiating factor will be the class passives. So that could be seen as a negative
On the other hand, it will reduce the moaning about class balances. If everyone has:
* summon pet spells
* strong melee spells
* strong ranged spells
* reflective shields
* invisibility/teleportation spells
* self/group heal spells
etc. etc.
...then it'll all become a matter of choice about what to slot in your bar. You won't moan about a class having spell X when you can do some missions and acquire a similar spell.
I think initially the PvP focus was on large combats rather than 1v1. Hence some classes are better at 1v1, while others are better as part of a group. As Arena comes more into focus, spell-crafting will level the field thus removing a headache for ZOS.EU | PC | AD3 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭The impression I got after reading up on it was through spell crafting, you make new ultimates.
That's about it.
Disappointing to me.
Personally, if they did away with the whole class system and went to a true 'play what you want' that would be great.
Well it was stated you could have a hotbar full of crafted abilities.3 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I too fear this will become an albatross for ZOS, there's just so much scope for yet more PVP QQ about 'balance', which in turn will have the usual hugely negative effect on PVEers.ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »I long to be wrong but I foresee a trainwreck.
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Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »I share the concern to some extent. It's a difficult balance to strike: if spell-crafted spells are better or even similar in efficiency to class spells then the only differentiating factor will be the class passives. So that could be seen as a negative
On the other hand, it will reduce the moaning about class balances. If everyone has:
* summon pet spells
* strong melee spells
* strong ranged spells
* reflective shields
* invisibility/teleportation spells
* self/group heal spells
etc. etc.
...then it'll all become a matter of choice about what to slot in your bar. You won't moan about a class having spell X when you can do some missions and acquire a similar spell.
I think initially the PvP focus was on large combats rather than 1v1. Hence some classes are better at 1v1, while others are better as part of a group. As Arena comes more into focus, spell-crafting will level the field thus removing a headache for ZOS.
There are also different levels of spells to be learned IE tiers in the crafted abilities.0 -
Malpherian✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I too fear this will become an albatross for ZOS, there's just so much scope for yet more PVP QQ about 'balance', which in turn will have the usual hugely negative effect on PVEers.ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »I long to be wrong but I foresee a trainwreck.
"Albatrosses are good luck, Until some fool tries to kill it."2 -
kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Spellcrafting will add some MUCH needed longevity to the game with a touch of exploration to find all these components.
Glad you pointed this out. Happy to see the exploration element.1 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hope they dont personally.
I play a templar , so giving on my class was something i did after the first month.
The more i dont need to deppend at all on class skills , the better.Edited by Nox_Aeterna on July 21, 2014 2:21PM"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Don't worry, the bird will be flagged by the Justice system.Malpherian wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I too fear this will become an albatross for ZOS, there's just so much scope for yet more PVP QQ about 'balance', which in turn will have the usual hugely negative effect on PVEers.ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »I long to be wrong but I foresee a trainwreck.
"Albatrosses are good luck, Until some fool tries to kill it."
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Classes will still have unique passives and skills that synergize better or differently with each new spell. For example the DK passive that adds to dot fire damage may work better with a crafted fire DoT etc. so as long as passive abilities like are specific to classes, then they will always be unique.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭RequiemofMastema wrote: »
You know I WOUDLNT be surprised if they did add necromancy to learnable skills with a Necro pet to summon. This HAS been requested a LOT on the forums they would be dumb to over look. With the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild being added to the game I would like to see some Necromancy.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I too fear this will become an albatross for ZOS, there's just so much scope for yet more PVP QQ about 'balance', which in turn will have the usual hugely negative effect on PVEers.ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »I long to be wrong but I foresee a trainwreck.
Firstly, that's a very one-sided view from someone who obviously enjoys only one side of the game: in this case PvE.
Both PvP and PvE are a barometer for skill balancing. The PvEer's complaints about certain classes having much higher DPS during trials, or certain classes being easier for quest/dungeon soloing etc. have led to as many skills being adjusted as PvP complaints. But by the sound of it you don't PvP, so you don't observe the opposite effect of PvP being affected by PvE (Biting Jabs, Magma Armor, Siphon Spirit and overall ultie generation etc).
Secondly, the PvErs idea of "balance" is somewhat flawed. Having a skill that gives you a huge advantage over NPCs/Monsters is not balance, but of course noone complains on behalf of the monsters. It takes another player being on the receiving end of an OP skill/combo in order for the skill to be adjusted.
Thirdly and finally, I think it's unrealistic to expect that when new content is released to massive audience, that people will not try to poke holes in it and find combinations of things that are either OP or exploitable. The skill in question then gets adjusted and thus the cycle of development continues.
I'm in no doubt that when spell-crafting is released someone will find something to exploit. What it comes down to is how quickly ZOS address the issue. If they address it within a few days from discovery then it's all good. If they allow it to fester for a month like the did with the stacking of Vampire 0 cost ultie, then it'll drive people away.Edited by Maulkin on July 21, 2014 2:37PMEU | PC | AD2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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It would also be HUGELY lore-breaking considering the point in time this game is taking place.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »RequiemofMastema wrote: »
You know I WOUDLNT be surprised if they did add necromancy to learnable skills with a Necro pet to summon. This HAS been requested a LOT on the forums they would be dumb to over look. With the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild being added to the game I would like to see some Necromancy.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
It would also be HUGELY lore-breaking considering the point in time this game is taking place.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »RequiemofMastema wrote: »
You know I WOUDLNT be surprised if they did add necromancy to learnable skills with a Necro pet to summon. This HAS been requested a LOT on the forums they would be dumb to over look. With the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild being added to the game I would like to see some Necromancy.
Isnt the summoning of Daedric pets HUGELY lore-breaking for this point in the game as well?0 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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First, my comment is based on cause and effect, my views of the two aspects of the game don't come into it. I won't deny your observation of my position is wrong, but my comment is easily seen to be true simply by reading the forums over time and seeing what ZOS do: the nerf to the DK 'pull' skill being merely one of hundreds where PVE play was negatively affected by PVP QQing.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I too fear this will become an albatross for ZOS, there's just so much scope for yet more PVP QQ about 'balance', which in turn will have the usual hugely negative effect on PVEers.ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »I long to be wrong but I foresee a trainwreck.
Firstly, that's a very one-sided view from someone who obviously enjoys only one side of the game: in this case PvE.
Both PvP and PvE are a barometer for skill balancing. The PvEer's complaints about certain classes having much higher DPS during trials, or certain classes being easier for quest/dungeon soloing etc. have led to as many skills being adjusted as PvP complaints. But by the sound of it you don't PvP, so you don't observe the opposite effect of PvP being affected by PvE (Biting Jabs, Magma Armor, Siphon Spirit and overall ultie generation etc).
Secondly, the PvErs idea of "balance" is somewhat flawed. Having a skill that gives you a huge advantage over NPCs/Monsters is not balance, but of course noone complains on behalf of the monsters. It takes another player being on the receiving end of an OP skill/combo in order for the skill to be adjusted..
Second, I never see PVE balance discussed in terms of PC vs. mob, it's in terms of class X being unwanted (in group content) because class Y is better or, in the case of the VR debate some classes could easily solo their way through while others couldn't progress beyond VR3 or so.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 21, 2014 2:45PM0 -
eol✭✭✭I was at QuakeCon, and while this sounds creative and fun, IMO it has the potential to be hugely unbalancing. The guy that discussed this seems aware of that, but still, thousands of players have a way to find combinations and uses that a few developers never contemplated. IMO it sounds like more trouble than its worth.1
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Logan9a✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
It would also be HUGELY lore-breaking considering the point in time this game is taking place.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »RequiemofMastema wrote: »
You know I WOUDLNT be surprised if they did add necromancy to learnable skills with a Necro pet to summon. This HAS been requested a LOT on the forums they would be dumb to over look. With the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild being added to the game I would like to see some Necromancy.
Curious, how so? (Lore-breaking)
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Durham✭✭✭✭✭
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who cares right now....... so far off........ IMO probally will change a ton.... PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables0 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭There comes a point when new skills, dungeons, quests become burdens for players.
Do we really need to be constantly learning new spells, completing more dungeons and quests?
To me, it sounds like they have nothing else for players to do other than fight, fight, and more fight. Like build a house, like establish a political faction, like participate in political affairs, etc.
Let's see how it is implemented.1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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At the point in the TES historical time-line ESO is set, Necromancy was rarely practiced and very largely condemned. It was usually a secretive affair, for example I think it is mentioned in the game Veran got Mannimarco expelled from a guild due to some of his practices.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
It would also be HUGELY lore-breaking considering the point in time this game is taking place.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »RequiemofMastema wrote: »
You know I WOUDLNT be surprised if they did add necromancy to learnable skills with a Necro pet to summon. This HAS been requested a LOT on the forums they would be dumb to over look. With the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild being added to the game I would like to see some Necromancy.
Curious, how so? (Lore-breaking)
So, hundreds of PCs running about a zone as Necromancers would fly in the face of Tamriel at the time this game is taking place.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 21, 2014 2:51PM0