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Justice system. Immersive punishment.
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Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »There will be no NPCs and whole cities cleared of guards... Guilds will own entire towns and grief kills for days... sounds fun cant wait to start my grief guild!
Of course this won't be the case. They are going to make NPC's independent of each person's client. So, for example, if I go into town and kill all the NPC's then from that point on, those NPC's will not exist in my game.
This won't impact anybody else's game, as the NPC's will be "instanced" to each person's play through. No one will be able to grief anyone else by killing all of the NPC's, vendors, quest givers, guards, etc.
But, your personal bounty will be known to everyone else, and when it gets high enough, you will be flagged for execution. I think it's a fun system that adds a whole other layer of complexity to the game.
Well I don't know about that... I personally don't think that will happen. If it does happen it will ruin the whole thing for me.I r robot
hear me roar1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »There will be no NPCs and whole cities cleared of guards... Guilds will own entire towns and grief kills for days... sounds fun cant wait to start my grief guild!
Of course this won't be the case. They are going to make NPC's independent of each person's client. So, for example, if I go into town and kill all the NPC's then from that point on, those NPC's will not exist in my game.
This won't impact anybody else's game, as the NPC's will be "instanced" to each person's play through. No one will be able to grief anyone else by killing all of the NPC's, vendors, quest givers, guards, etc.
But, your personal bounty will be known to everyone else, and when it gets high enough, you will be flagged for execution. I think it's a fun system that adds a whole other layer of complexity to the game.
I hope this is the case.6 -
Svann✭✭✭Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »
They are gunna sort out the kinks. In the end, everyone will be happy.AlienDiplomat wrote: »isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »Just as long as pve provisioners/collectors don't get mixed up in this crap just because we want that purple motif marked "STEAL". I think I'll now level my DK's butt up to town-farm before the "justice system" is implemented.
can't do the time then don't do the crime.
But we'll be restricted to gathering only outside of town? That sucks, in an MMO computer game. One of the most boring things about WoW is that there is nothing to loot besides dead bodies. TI isn't much better, with their one-shot chests that give one crappy token that no one needs.
And what of folks with auto-loot on? I guess Auto-loot is now a thing of the past. Might as well get rid of it.
This crap should have been left to specially-tagged fluff/trash townie NPCs, don't include containers of any sort, except for those right by the killable/robbable NPC's feet.
Yeah, I am pretty much against the justice system as proposed.
It sounds like just another honey pot for people that like to grief others for attention, just like monkeys in the bank.
No thanks, ZOS.
Yea? Sounds a lot like a fairy tale.Edited by Svann on July 19, 2014 11:06PM5 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Depends how you look at it. Part of the fun is risk vs reward. When you die in the game there are penalties that are not "fun" but it keeps the game interesting. A few minutes in the stocks or some kind of mini game would just add to the fun imo. Remember choices had to be made to end up looking like a criminal in the first place.As if anyone would continue playing after their character gets locked out of movement. As much as I like immersion, remember that this is a game and players want to have fun.
When you die, there isn't a respawn timer so you completely missed the point. It doesn't matter what the player did, they will not be happy having to wait a few minutes to play again.
Besides that, the whole stocks idea fails due to the fact that in an MMO, their will be multiple players getting caught for stuff and they won't all fit in a limited number of stocks. The likely punishment for a crime would be a jail cell and the minigame would be to break out.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 19, 2014 11:14PM1 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭In response to the "auto-loot" argument:
You realize you have to actually click on the containers to open them before auto-loot takes everything inside, right? And when you target a container that belongs to an NPC, it'll say, in red letters, "Steal from" (watch the section from QuakeCon about the justice system if you don't believe me). You don't have to turn auto-loot off, just watch what you click on and you'll be fine.
It's not as if stealing gets you banned for life anyways, just pay the fine and you're good.Edited by emeraldbay on July 19, 2014 11:16PM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —2 -
Amsel_McKay wrote: »"They are going to make NPC's independent of each person's client." ROFL...
Not sure why you are rolling around on the floor...in case you haven't noticed, they already do this with quests. Have you ever been further along on a quest chain so that the NPC moves and when you go back to a location where the NPC was previously you'll see a bunch of people standing around nothing?
Same concept. If you elect to kill the NPC he'll be forever dead from your perspective. But a person who hasn't killed them will see the NPC.
It's not rocket science.
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Woolenthreads✭✭✭✭Are you crazy!? Then there'll a shortage of Stale Pies and Stale Radishes. They'll also have to add Rotten Tomatoes and Rotten Cabbages. What do you think they'd do? They'd add it to the container stock as part of the loot list.Edited by Woolenthreads on July 20, 2014 3:09AMOooh look, lot's of Butterflies! Wait! Butterflies? Get out of here Sheo, stop bugging me!
Having issues with Provisioning Writs? A list of problem Writs and people willing to help in game can be found in this Thread1 -
isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »Just as long as pve provisioners/collectors don't get mixed up in this crap just because we want that purple motif marked "STEAL". I think I'll now level my DK's butt up to town-farm before the "justice system" is implemented.
can't do the time then don't do the crime.
But we'll be restricted to gathering only outside of town? That sucks, in an MMO computer game. One of the most boring things about WoW is that there is nothing to loot besides dead bodies. TI isn't much better, with their one-shot chests that give one crappy token that no one needs.
And what of folks with auto-loot on? I guess Auto-loot is now a thing of the past. Might as well get rid of it.
This crap should have been left to specially-tagged fluff/trash townie NPCs, don't include containers of any sort, except for those right by the killable/robbable NPC's feet.
No. This is an elder scrolls game, and your actions should have meaningful consequences. Jail time is one of the few things an MMO can do in that respect.
Sanguine's Beta Tester1 -
Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭All of you Elder Scroll Experts, can you tell me how you "Joined" the guards in those other single player games?
In Morrowind I was able to do quests "For the guard" sort of... but not really join them... I could get in trouble with them, in fact I did a few times because I hit the wrong button... but I was never able to join them... and the meaningful consequences I always seemed to get was dead.Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...2 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Joining the guards is a new function in this game, as an attempt to get players more involved than just being either good citizens or criminals. Personally, I like the idea.All of you Elder Scroll Experts, can you tell me how you "Joined" the guards in those other single player games?
In Morrowind I was able to do quests "For the guard" sort of... but not really join them... I could get in trouble with them, in fact I did a few times because I hit the wrong button... but I was never able to join them... and the meaningful consequences I always seemed to get was dead.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —1 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭This looks so awesome, I am so excited.
No one can grief you unless you steal or kill, it's an opt in system. If you want to pvp you can play a guard or a thief/assassin. If you don't play either of those, you don't have to worry about it.
I am pumped for this.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.3 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »"They are going to make NPC's independent of each person's client." ROFL...
Yea Amsel, agreed. Just really wonder about some folks.
Imaginations are a wonderful thing though, eh.
This is not a per-item banquet. Just in case its not apparent yet...most of what is dished out in marketing thats 'coming up' is already being worked on/has already got its foundation in place and its highly unlikely ZOS is going to be making any major deviations from their basic presentation of the feature. Additionally, 'npc's independent of each person's client' ... *shakes head. Is believing that along the same lines of expecting real-time A.I.?
Now THATs the day MMO's will be addictive ;o)!
Edited by Anastasia on July 20, 2014 3:46AM0 -
GFBStarWars✭✭✭exacly, i hope they will just add merchant with price based on guild trader or something so that it does represent the game economy, and that stealing will be a easy way to acquire items but with a risk cost.
could be nice if there was a go to jail option where you will loose skill experience (a bit not tons and not the skill line only skills), you could even escape from jail by lock picking the door and going to look for your items or just click on the bed to "sleep" and lose those skill level and wake up at the end of the sentence
could be really interested to have a pay, i don't pay and a i don't pay but i go to prison options (with stole goods removed) 1 -
Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Joining the guards is a new function in this game, as an attempt to get players more involved than just being either good citizens or criminals. Personally, I like the idea.All of you Elder Scroll Experts, can you tell me how you "Joined" the guards in those other single player games?
In Morrowind I was able to do quests "For the guard" sort of... but not really join them... I could get in trouble with them, in fact I did a few times because I hit the wrong button... but I was never able to join them... and the meaningful consequences I always seemed to get was dead.
Mostly I was pointing out that it was not actually like the prior elder scroll games, it allows for both criminals and guards, thus the idea that this is like those other Elder Scrolls Games is not accurate. As for the idea, I for one will wait and see how it's implemented before I pass judgement on it.Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...1 -
Kronosphere✭✭✭✭guys, im pretty sure players can only hunt u when your bounty exceeds a certain threshhold which is a decent amount. its not like the combat flags on eve, where the second u touch something everyone in the entire game can kill you. take the motif, get caught, run for it with motif, then (and they stated you could do this) go find a theives guild dude and pay off the 5 gold of bounty. done.~House Indoril~
Submit to the three, the spirits and thy lords.1 -
Woolenthreads✭✭✭✭Kronosphere wrote: »It's not like the combat flags on eve, where the second u touch something everyone in the entire game can kill you.
When they first introduced that, I remember the Corp doing a Empire Mining Op. I had a Drone BS (Dom, for Eve players) and was the only one in Corp with the brand new, (at that time) Tractors. So I was tractoring the cans with the group and a griefer turned up to raid the cans.
I released the drones and as soon as he took the first ore out they greased him. He was unhappy and we were LOL'ing in local. Fun times .
Can't see that they can do anything even vaguely similar here. After a while I think regular players will know which houses have people inside and which don't. One hopes that they will have a system in place for warning that you are stealing in the open places if the containers have owners.Edited by Woolenthreads on July 20, 2014 1:32PMOooh look, lot's of Butterflies! Wait! Butterflies? Get out of here Sheo, stop bugging me!
Having issues with Provisioning Writs? A list of problem Writs and people willing to help in game can be found in this Thread0 -
Logan9a✭✭✭You have been caught stealing!
You have been marked PVP!
You have been killed by Spankdatazz!
Your equipment is damaged.
Yea!4 -
indytims_ESO✭✭✭✭daniangiub17_ESO wrote: »And for everyone complaining about the justice system... well, stop (or whatever) - this is elder scrolls, after all (or supposed to be, at least) so, actually, this should've been there from start... Don't come whining as if it was some change made against you.
Besides, everyone who played Ultima Online long ago (good times, like T2A) knows how fun this is going to be lol
A "Justice System" in TES games is going to be fundamentally different than a "Justice System" in ESO. If you are too blind to see that, then that's on you. Killing random NPCs in any of the TES games is one thing, because it affects no one but yourself. Killing NPCs in an MMO is drastically different. I don't care if 'consequences' exist - when you start $#@* with someone else's game, other people who are paying just as much as you to sub and enjoy the game, then things start to go downhill really quick.
Also - UO sucked. There is NOTHING for current MMO's to model off of that game.3 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭indytims_ESO wrote: »daniangiub17_ESO wrote: »And for everyone complaining about the justice system... well, stop (or whatever) - this is elder scrolls, after all (or supposed to be, at least) so, actually, this should've been there from start... Don't come whining as if it was some change made against you.
Besides, everyone who played Ultima Online long ago (good times, like T2A) knows how fun this is going to be lol
A "Justice System" in TES games is going to be fundamentally different than a "Justice System" in ESO. If you are too blind to see that, then that's on you. Killing random NPCs in any of the TES games is one thing, because it affects no one but yourself. Killing NPCs in an MMO is drastically different. I don't care if 'consequences' exist - when you start $#@* with someone else's game, other people who are paying just as much as you to sub and enjoy the game, then things start to go downhill really quick.
Also - UO sucked. There is NOTHING for current MMO's to model off of that game.
oh ffs get over yourself. No one is screwing with your game by killing NPCs. No more than it screws with my game that I can't kill you as well as NPCs.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.3 -
moxiesauce✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »
You'll get a bound on your head only if someone sees you, so just go in sneak mode and steal when the eye indicator is closed lol
There will be no NPCs and whole cities cleared of guards... Guilds will own entire towns and grief kills for days... sounds fun cant wait to start my grief guild!
You clearly missed the part where players can be guards, there will be guilds for them as well to protect towns.4 -
Apophiss✭✭✭
This is exactly what I see this update evolving into.Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAFdcsmJlKE
You'll get a bound on your head only if someone sees you, so just go in sneak mode and steal when the eye indicator is closed lol
There will be no NPCs and whole cities cleared of guards... Guilds will own entire towns and grief kills for days... sounds fun cant wait to start my grief guild!
I'm sure there will be some restrictions. Or they might make guards insanely tough. Plus tons of players ( me included ) will help out the guards.
This is just what the PVP crowd wants. You help the Guards, you get flagged too. They get their open world PVP.
This system will be the PVP players dream update."Just when I think you have said the stupidest thing possible, you keep talking."
-Hank Hill3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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Ah so I'm going to guess you haven't done any questing in ESO yet. Since it's OBVIOUS that the quest NPC's are independent of each person's client. Also, ALL lootable items like crates, barrels, nightstands, etc are instanced to each person's client. ALL Dungeons are instanced to the 1-4 players in that space. ALL Trials are instanced to the 1-12 players in that space. I could keep going on but it seems reality has run over your comment.Amsel_McKay wrote: »"They are going to make NPC's independent of each person's client." ROFL...
Yea Amsel, agreed. Just really wonder about some folks.
Imaginations are a wonderful thing though, eh.
This is not a per-item banquet. Just in case its not apparent yet...most of what is dished out in marketing thats 'coming up' is already being worked on/has already got its foundation in place and its highly unlikely ZOS is going to be making any major deviations from their basic presentation of the feature. Additionally, 'npc's independent of each person's client' ... *shakes head. Is believing that along the same lines of expecting real-time A.I.? Now THATs the day MMO's will be addictive ;o)!4 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Some people seem to want a completely risk free RP game, where they can merrily prance about in a fairy tail land avoiding anything that might lead to them having to think or respond to a threat in a skilful way.
That's not immersive. If I enter a house and the family is all sitting down having lunch I shouldn't be able to rifle though their cupboards and closets steeling their belongings with them right there in the same room.
If I decide to do it anyway even if they resist then there should be consequences. And if I manage to evade those AI consequences then I better be ready for them to escalate just as they would in real life.
Edited by Hilgara on July 21, 2014 7:20AM4 -
Anex✭✭✭isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »Just as long as pve provisioners/collectors don't get mixed up in this crap just because we want that purple motif marked "STEAL". I think I'll now level my DK's butt up to town-farm before the "justice system" is implemented.
You only get a bounty if you get CAUGHT
(as far as I know). I used to steal in Skyrim all the time, I just never got caught
I think even killing was a thing that you could get away with, but honestly I can't remember.
As I said though, you didn't get bounty for stealing if no one saw you do it. Just the items you got could only be sold on a fence and IF you did get caught for something else, those other items marked stolen in your inventory would be taken away as well.
Edited by Anex on July 21, 2014 7:34AM0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »Just as long as pve provisioners/collectors don't get mixed up in this crap just because we want that purple motif marked "STEAL". I think I'll now level my DK's butt up to town-farm before the "justice system" is implemented.
You only get a bounty if you get CAUGHT (as far as I know). I used to steal in Skyrim all the time, I just never got caught
I suspect getting high level thieves guild abilities and passives will make you a master thief virtually impossible to detect during a crime2 -
GFBStarWars✭✭✭isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »Just as long as pve provisioners/collectors don't get mixed up in this crap just because we want that purple motif marked "STEAL". I think I'll now level my DK's butt up to town-farm before the "justice system" is implemented.
You only get a bounty if you get CAUGHT (as far as I know). I used to steal in Skyrim all the time, I just never got caught
I suspect getting high level thieves guild abilities and passives will make you a master thief virtually impossible to detect during a crime
i really hope not, may be easier but u should be killed by guard the same as level 12 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Too many assumptions. I mean, the whole marked for PvP idea... Will they be able to fight back, and then what would stop them from committing a crime just to attack other players minding their own business? Seems like everyone is just guessing at this point so I wouldn't believe anything until I see it.3 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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This seems to be a massive case of wishful thinking.lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »There will be no NPCs and whole cities cleared of guards... Guilds will own entire towns and grief kills for days... sounds fun cant wait to start my grief guild!
Of course this won't be the case. They are going to make NPC's independent of each person's client.
Citation/link please to anything ZOS have said that remotely implies this is their plan.
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Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »"They are going to make NPC's independent of each person's client." ROFL...
Not sure why you are rolling around on the floor...in case you haven't noticed, they already do this with quests. Have you ever been further along on a quest chain so that the NPC moves and when you go back to a location where the NPC was previously you'll see a bunch of people standing around nothing?
Same concept. If you elect to kill the NPC he'll be forever dead from your perspective. But a person who hasn't killed them will see the NPC.
It's not rocket science.
There's no way each NPC in each town will be instanced to each player.2
