Zerg Balling and Forward Camps...We've seen this before *grin*

MoeCoastie

imo, install caps and make aoe into pbaoe. Makes this type of tactic situational but still effective. AoE tactics should be deadly in tight quarters, not open field.

Columba

This video doesn't approach what we saw friday night on wabba. the 20+ players were literally in a solid clump moving as one. you couldnt even see individual players since they were no more than half a meter apart from each other. that is zerg balling.

Lowbei

im just glad you arent calling them bots anymore

MoeCoastie

some familiar daoc names on this page =P

Lava_Croft

Anyone who thinks that removing the AoE cap will magically remove these paintrains from the game really has no clue.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO

Durham wrote: »

How about drastically less APs for killing 1 player with a group of 20..... or 16 v 4

This is what daoc did and it worked great. If someone was worth 4k rp's and 1 player killed him you would get 4k in return, if you were in a group of 2 u would get 2k each etc.

If the duo was in the middle of killing that 4k guy but a Zerg of 20 turns up and leeches, the duo would still get 2k each and the Zerg would probably get 10rps each.

The reward for zerging is safety but not as rewarding as smaller groups in progression ( realm ranks ).

Lowbei

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that removing the AoE cap will magically remove these paintrains from the game really has no clue.

no, thats incorrect, since these rainbow trains never existed until the ae cap became a known issue, about a month after launch.

Krinaman

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

How about drastically less APs for killing 1 player with a group of 20..... or 16 v 4

This is what daoc did and it worked great. If someone was worth 4k rp's and 1 player killed him you would get 4k in return, if you were in a group of 2 u would get 2k each etc.

If the duo was in the middle of killing that 4k guy but a Zerg of 20 turns up and leeches, the duo would still get 2k each and the Zerg would probably get 10rps each.

The reward for zerging is safety but not as rewarding as smaller groups in progression ( realm ranks ).

Such a system would simply result in a large zerg of solo players all spamming aoe's to ensure they tag everything.

Krentar_RNX

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that removing the AoE cap will magically remove these paintrains from the game really has no clue.

They sure will think twice to move ALL the time like a ball after their full raid get killed by a single group.

Columba

Lowbei wrote: »

im just glad you arent calling them bots anymore

mods frown on that.

Lowbei

Columba wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

im just glad you arent calling them bots anymore

mods frown on that.

so do intelligent people

pitdemon_ESO

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

How about drastically less APs for killing 1 player with a group of 20..... or 16 v 4

This is what daoc did and it worked great. If someone was worth 4k rp's and 1 player killed him you would get 4k in return, if you were in a group of 2 u would get 2k each etc.

If the duo was in the middle of killing that 4k guy but a Zerg of 20 turns up and leeches, the duo would still get 2k each and the Zerg would probably get 10rps each.

The reward for zerging is safety but not as rewarding as smaller groups in progression ( realm ranks ).

That's actually the way it was a few months ago, but people complained that it wasn't group friendly

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/89306/alliance-point-accumulation-needs-to-be-re-evaluated/p1

Check out the first reply. That man is a prophet

Xsorus

DontBeAfraid wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

For those who don't know what Zerg Balling is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8Is9SVgy_M

how can u NOT morph dragon blood to green dragon blood.
other morph so incredible bad




but despites that i totally agree with your post.
current pvp gameplay and the resoluting tactics are far from fun.
gj matt

Hate to get off topic, but I have an answer for this

Because i usually run full Medium, and i'm overcapped on Stamina regen already, therefor Green Dragon Blood doesn't do much for me. While the other Dragon Blood Morph gives me Armor and Resist, and if i'm being hit at the time, Those are usually the two things I want.

Xsorus

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

How about drastically less APs for killing 1 player with a group of 20..... or 16 v 4

This is what daoc did and it worked great. If someone was worth 4k rp's and 1 player killed him you would get 4k in return, if you were in a group of 2 u would get 2k each etc.

If the duo was in the middle of killing that 4k guy but a Zerg of 20 turns up and leeches, the duo would still get 2k each and the Zerg would probably get 10rps each.

The reward for zerging is safety but not as rewarding as smaller groups in progression ( realm ranks ).

The game already works like this

DontBeAfraid

@all u guys yelling for "just use negate magic".

u realize that at all it takes to be immune to negate magic is use immovable every 8 seconds?

FENGRUSH

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that removing the AoE cap will magically remove these paintrains from the game really has no clue.

Dang defending zerg balls in this thread too. Pretty sure when any decent AOE strike will affect every single one of them, theyre going to incur more issues than those they fight.

Majority of fighting for that zerg ball they are hitting enemies strung out, split apart, and not all at once. If a 6 man group ambushed them mid fight together, theyre hitting with ults together and hitting split targets, 6 at a time. Meanwhile the 20 is still going to hit all of them.

Yet it wont change anything??? lol.

aksyong

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that removing the AoE cap will magically remove these paintrains from the game really has no clue.

You're the clueless guy. Prior to the implementation of AoE cap, I can wipe a group of 30 with just a sorc and a dk. Let the paintrains run to me and they will magically go back to their gates.

krim

Lowbei wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that removing the AoE cap will magically remove these paintrains from the game really has no clue.

no, thats incorrect, since these rainbow trains never existed until the ae cap became a known issue, about a month after launch.

Actually it was already being used on the PTS before the game even launched.

Lava_Croft

aksyong wrote: »

You're the clueless guy. Prior to the implementation of AoE cap, I can wipe a group of 30 with just a sorc and a dk.

It seems you don't realize that almost every single AoE ability in ESO already had a cap. The only thing that changed is that several overlooked abilities were brought in line with the already present AoE cap. Barely anything actually changed in regard to AoE caps. Talk about clueless...

It's not about 'defending' these paintrains, it's about people that, instead of actually changing their tactics when it comes to dealing with these groups rather spend their time on the forums whining about it.

aksyong

Lava_Croft wrote: »

aksyong wrote: »

You're the clueless guy. Prior to the implementation of AoE cap, I can wipe a group of 30 with just a sorc and a dk.

It seems you don't realize that almost every single AoE ability in ESO already had a cap. The only thing that changed is that several overlooked abilities were brought in line with the already present AoE cap.

Talk about clueless...

Prior to the implementation impulse was not limited.

Lava_Croft

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Changes/Pending Changes
With that explanation, here are the changes that are being made in version 1.1 (subject to testing).

• The following abilities had a higher max limit than six, and have been fixed to be in-line with all other area-of-effect abilities:
  • Consuming Darkness (Nightblade)
  • Dragonknight Standard (Dragonknight)
  • Negate Magic (Sorcerer)
  • Scalding Rune (Fire Rune Morph - Mages Guild)
  • Soul Shatter (Soul Magic)

Also, we are currently investigating Dark Talons, Blood Altar, and Rite of Passage, which may not be obeying the max target limit.

Hm?

Source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/89420/area-of-effect-abilities-maximum-target-cap-clarification/p1

Xsorus

Lava_Croft wrote: »

aksyong wrote: »

You're the clueless guy. Prior to the implementation of AoE cap, I can wipe a group of 30 with just a sorc and a dk.

It seems you don't realize that almost every single AoE ability in ESO already had a cap. The only thing that changed is that several overlooked abilities were brought in line with the already present AoE cap. Barely anything actually changed in regard to AoE caps. Talk about clueless...

It's not about 'defending' these paintrains, it's about people that, instead of actually changing their tactics when it comes to dealing with these groups rather spend their time on the forums whining about it.

Ummm..Standard and Dark Talons was 2 of the primary ways you were able to wipe large groups back then.

Fixing those abilities absolutely changed the ability to wipe large groups.

Poxheart

Lava_Croft wrote: »

aksyong wrote: »

It's not about 'defending' these paintrains, it's about people that, instead of actually changing their tactics when it comes to dealing with these groups rather spend their time on the forums whining about it.

I'm curious to see what kind of tictacs you think people should adopt instead of 'whinging' on the forums.

So far the options presented in this thread to counter zergballs have been:
1) avoid them
2) crouch and pick off stragglers
3) fight back with a zergball of your own

Of these three #2 is the only real interesting one; however from personal experience it is only marginally effective because a competent zergball will turn back and impulse spam their way back to their dead friendlies and revive. Good luck avoiding that while hidden unless you're a vampire or wearing shadow dancer armor.

suelothvar

No AE limit in Daoc was great, sure it made a bomb squad nasty as hell, but melle got its advantage of "if im hitting you, i'm pretty much interupting anything you try to cast" it gave melle and casters distinct uses... I soooooo miss Daoc (i'm sure my mates are all sick of me pointing out how every games pvp is great but lacks that magic somthing DaoC had)

seneferab16_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

They did Rage, But that wasn't because AOE was overpowered..it was because Bright Wizard was the most overpowered class ever introduced into any game to date. You never see anyone ever whining about how an Engineer and a Shadow Warrior totally wrecked their zerg..nope, Its always Bright Wizard, Because it had a mechanic that was just atrocious in terms of Balance, For the small price of taking damage when you casted a spell, Which would be instantly healed by your groups Warrior Priest, You'd gain 35% chance to critical hit and a 100% critical damage bonus. There is no mechanic in any game that comes close to that level of a DPS increase.

Don't forget how they could sit in complete safetly and dish out that insane damage from behind a wall.

Durham

Just some Ideas to change Elder Caster Scrolls

Some heavy tank love... large AOE knockback added to immovable and exclusively given to heavy users would be nice. This would make balling up very tuff to stay in... 90% Spell resist for 10 secs with a decrease in overall melee DPS by 50% only available in heavy armer...This would allow tanks to CC some of them .... Both of these ideas would allow for the other side to break the ball up and attack!

Exploading soul could also be granted an AOE Knockback ..

Using an AOE spell also reduces movement speed by 50% this would be an easy way to nerf the AOE ball groups.... This would be the same as blocking ... This would not stop AOE from being used in Choke points but would stop the ball groups...

Daunting

They need to add more ranged aoe cc to counter this. At this point, negate is the only way of truly dealing with this. A nb's aoe fear would work a whole lot better too if it actually hit the amount of targets equal to the aoe cap.

maxilaub17_ESO

My guild mates and I were talking about this new problem of being to place forward camps endlessly has caused. The best idea I heard was after you rez at a forward camp a timer starts if you die before the timer has finished you can't rez at another forward camp for x minutes, but you can still rez at keeps and starting areas.

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO

Making Immovable only usable by heavy users is useless.
They would all wear 1 heavy armor piece to get this skill.

My guild mates and I were talking about this new problem of being to place forward camps endlessly has caused. The best idea I heard was after you rez at a forward camp a timer starts if you die before the timer has finished you can't rez at another forward camp for x minutes, but you can still rez at keeps and starting areas.

That could be a possible fix for forward camps.

I still wonder why nobody commented on my "assist mechanic" (getting the softlock of your teamleader) suggestion.

Imho it's the perfect fix to counter zergs with small coordinated groups and would give single target skills more power.

A good group could kill half the zerg in a minute or less by spiking them one after another very fast.
There is still some skill involved as there is no hardlock in ESO.

Xsorus

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO wrote: »

Making Immovable only usable by heavy users is useless.
They would all wear 1 heavy armor piece to get this skill.

My guild mates and I were talking about this new problem of being to place forward camps endlessly has caused. The best idea I heard was after you rez at a forward camp a timer starts if you die before the timer has finished you can't rez at another forward camp for x minutes, but you can still rez at keeps and starting areas.

That could be a possible fix for forward camps.

I still wonder why nobody commented on my "assist mechanic" (getting the softlock of your teamleader) suggestion.

Imho it's the perfect fix to counter zergs with small coordinated groups and would give single target skills more power.

A good group could kill half the zerg in a minute or less by spiking them one after another very fast.
There is still some skill involved as there is no hardlock in ESO.

not really, you could fix the armor problems by simply requiring 5 pieces of armor to use the ability.