I fully support removing the AOE cap but I seriously doubt this will eliminate these coordinated guilds as shown in the vid. There are currently ways to easily counter them and some guilds have already adapted (mad props btw). The tools are there.
Do you guys really feel NOT having an AOE cap would all but make these coordinated trains vanish?
Daoc didn't have a cap but they had so much CC in that game 3 players could take out 200. Daoc was famous for trains be it melee or the pbaoe bomb variety. If I recall, Warhammer had no cap at launch and I can still hear the screams from those forums. Players raged they couldn't take a keep from only 2 Bright Wizards defending. They added in a cap later. In comparison, many feel the cap ruined GW2 PvP and I totally agree.
Removing the cap in ESO will not magically give players standing around holding hands situational awareness that a train is coming. You will still have coordinated guilds running on a dime wiping large groups of players albeit much quicker. AP would roll much faster that is for sure.
Just my .02. Good discussion. I need coffee ...
It wouldn't eliminate coordinated groups, It would however force them to spread out more, and probably rely on surprise attacks more.
I'll go through a few things, DAOC for example had a lot of CC, however what you also have to remember is you needed it in that game because you needed time to get on top of the targets to initiate the bomb...Esp with SpeedWarps coming into the game later on it made the opening hits a lot harder to pull off. The initial CC was also usually only in the first second of the bomb (unless it Midgard, but even then most purged instantly once hit by that stun). Now usually you didn't actually kill everyone in the initial bomb...All you did was thin the numbers, and afterwards single target spells were used to kill off the people left.
ESO doesn't have the CC that DAOC has for the opening hits, But what it does have is stealth, on every toon..My group was utilizing this to take out larger zergs before they fixed some of the abilities, Generally what we'd do (now we only had 6 players, not this large group) was take an objective, like the Lumbermill/Mine/Farm, then we'd go sit near the flag stealthed, The Farm for example was perfect for this because we could stealth in the barn, When the opposing zerg came to take it back, and stacked on the flag, we'd stealth up close enough then dive bomb into the group and blow it up. It basically did the same thing as Speed 6 and AOE CC in DAOC did.
Warhammer is also a funny subject.....Because they added a cap later on in that game because of complaints about AOE, however that was incredibly poor judgement on Mythics part....Because AOE wasn't overpowered in Warhammer Online. You yourself said players raged because 2 bright wizards were defending...And that's true..They did Rage, But that wasn't because AOE was overpowered..it was because Bright Wizard was the most overpowered class ever introduced into any game to date. You never see anyone ever whining about how an Engineer and a Shadow Warrior totally wrecked their zerg..nope, Its always Bright Wizard, Because it had a mechanic that was just atrocious in terms of Balance, For the small price of taking damage when you casted a spell, Which would be instantly healed by your groups Warrior Priest, You'd gain 35% chance to critical hit and a 100% critical damage bonus. There is no mechanic in any game that comes close to that level of a DPS increase.
So in Warhammer, When they got around to nerfing AOE's and adding the cap, They didn't really fix the problem, Because Bright Wizards still could kill people quite easily, Instead the only thing they managed to do is make the Engineer and Shadow Warrior worse.
As for removing the cap not fixing the situation, I think it'd go a long way...You have to remember, The reason they're able to stay up for that long is simple, multiple heals covering any damage someone takes, followed by multiple barriers (that doesn't have a cap)..You simply cannot do enough damage to with AOE's right now with the caps to counter that...Because every extra person they have, They gain a % chance to flat out not be hit by AOE damage.
Second you remove that cap, The second that damage because impossible to handle, I mean hell..Look at what happens when they run into groups of people in that video, They fall over dead...Because they're being hit by multiple AOE's at once and they're taking 100% of that damage.
One thing is certain , if ZOS don't address this then it will ruin PvP and people just won't bother.
Its ok saying move out of the way but what about when that "way" is defending the breach, do we just move out of the way whilst they insta-kill the flags and take the keep.
Its getting very boring at the moment running into these groups and trying to PvP against them.
I know in my guild people are getting very bored with it happening and starting to not bother.
Having now watched the video, it's annoying yes, but easily counterable with another organised guild. Done it plenty of times with zerg balls.
Unfortunately it seems like DC were randoms with no coordination on a large scale.
There is no Res penalty in this game....In fact the only thing dying will do is give the other side its Mana back.
A negate or two would've made all the difference.
Edit: Many negates
It's called AP farming and is popular amongst many of the highest scoring players - taking keeps doesn't give as much AP as repeatedly wiping an attacking group using fire ring and batswarm spam. For that style of player, the PvP experience is of lesser importance than AP. I wonder how long that can last though...? Can their enthusiasm for spamming the same skill over and over, day after day outlast the enthusiasm of other players who want a good battle and talk strategy and yet just get wiped by batswarming zergs?The Zerg ball like that really isn't accomplishing anything but being a nuisance.
They aren't taking any Keeps to help their team at all. Just stay away from them. If they actually 'try' to be useful and take a Keep with Siege...hit them then.