Simple fix to 'refund' old crafting materials.

Kiljaz

Allow a one time morph of pre v1.3 crafted items to a new set of the same trait teir or lower. Morphed gear will retain the same quality, i.e. white/green/blue/purple/yellow.

This should be easy to implement and is completely fair.

Liquid_Time

There seems to be a lot of hope that something will be done regarding this.. However.. I doubt it.

Dominoid

That does not sound easy from a programming perspective at all.

Snit

Liquid_Time wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of hope that something will be done regarding this.. However.. I doubt it.

I agree. ZOS has had plenty of chances to make players whole when changes to the game affect their characters, as with skill changes. In most cases, they don't offer a respec, or even an acknowledgment that they're stepping on some faces as they walk the path toward their design goals.

Every once in a while, though, they seem to demonstrate awareness of player concerns. So anything is possible.

joram.somersb16_ESO

Dominoid wrote: »

That does not sound easy from a programming perspective at all.

Actually, I think it's quite feasible, it's like combining their current process for deconstructing and current process for crafting an item.

I mentioned it before in another thread. Of course, I think first of all we would need some official dev input on this whole issue.

Another option to not completely antagonize players that just spend all their money on a legendary set that is now useless would be to allow a new option in the crafting stations.

An option to change an item's current set bonus to the one that the crafting station provides.
It could work much like the deconstruct option. You select an item, but instead of just being deconstructed you get another item instead which is exactly the same regarding level, racial style, trait, armor weight and armor quality but the set bonus of the station.

It can even have a cost of basic, racial and trait crafting materials for that matter, as long as it doesnt cost upgrade materials.

Implementation wise i would think this will be a lesser effort for them to inplement compared to a barter vendor ( for which they have nothing likewise yet).

Dominoid

joram.somersb16_ESO wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

That does not sound easy from a programming perspective at all.

Actually, I think it's quite feasible, it's like combining their current process for deconstructing and current process for crafting an item.

I mentioned it before in another thread. Of course, I think first of all we would need some official dev input on this whole issue.

Another option to not completely antagonize players that just spend all their money on a legendary set that is now useless would be to allow a new option in the crafting stations.

An option to change an item's current set bonus to the one that the crafting station provides.
It could work much like the deconstruct option. You select an item, but instead of just being deconstructed you get another item instead which is exactly the same regarding level, racial style, trait, armor weight and armor quality but the set bonus of the station.

It can even have a cost of basic, racial and trait crafting materials for that matter, as long as it doesnt cost upgrade materials.

Implementation wise i would think this will be a lesser effort for them to inplement compared to a barter vendor ( for which they have nothing likewise yet).

As a programmer myself, what you propose is far from simple. That's my only point. There are a great many things that people ask me to "simply" do, that just shows they don't understand programming - which is fine. On the flip side, sometimes something that sounds complicated is easy to code.

Snit

There's no reason to insert additional coding requirements or development time. Any 'refund' process would do just that, and therefore delay 1.3.

The solution is simpler: Make the new sets suitable to the same role as the old sets. Don't change DPS gear to tanking gear. More specifically, don't change Spell Crit to Health Recovery -- change it to Spell Damage or Max Magicka.

It's still odd for an MMO to change gear players are already wearing. But with just a little thought, they could make it a much less objectionable process.

Attorneyatlawl

Posted the following in another thread:

Personally I have around 16 (give or take one) legendary-upgraded items and a huge huge number of epics (probably 30 more past the legendaries), so for me that would be at minimum (since some of the legendaries dropped as blue or purple already)...

- 128 gold upgrades
- ~160 purple upgrades
- ~120 blue upgrades
- ~70-80 green upgrades (not so important)


Tally that up at an average of 3k a gold upgrade, 1k a purple, 300g a blue, and 50g a green, and that's not an insignificant sum of gold potentially lost (as a handful of pieces will be re-usable still) to this patch, in fact that comes to upwards of 588,000 gold in market value upgrades lost to the patch for me alone, which is many times a simple 20-25,000 gold respec cost.

After thinking of it in those terms, it would be nice if they could implement a way that reverted items to their original dropped-or-crafted state (color quality/rarity) and gave you back the upgrade materials used and the enchantments applied, for this patch cycle only or similar, so people could get their cash out of items that may be radically different due to 1.3. I normally wouldn't advocate this at all, but this is actually a moderate content patch and not a major new tier or retail expansion resulting in this huge shuffle of items, so it would be a good thing(tm) if they could do some sort of system like that...

If they could implement a system like I describe in the last paragraph there, I think that'd be best all-around. Additionally I would say the original intents of sets should be retained such as 3pc warlock or 5pc hist bark, even if the procs are changed in some cases.

Hypertionb14_ESO

you really want to give a "refund"

just allow all Crafted set bonus items to be deconstructed for full materials for a few days... then hot fix the chances back to normal.

this will let everyone have the option to redo their set bonus gear with the changes.

rashkosh127ub17_ESO

tbh it should not be hard for ZOS to just allow 3-7 day period (such as the time between the launch of the patch and the weekly hotfix) when (if deconstructing a legendary piece of armor) 8 legendary mats are rewarded upon said deconstruct. Legendary gear does not drop in the game so I don't see any direct way that it can be exploited. I do realize the fact that some people might have used less than 8 legendary mats while improving their gear, but I would venture to say that there are far more people that opted for the 100% success rate anyway.

Iorail

Doing the full decon on gear idea would not be possible because how is the game going to know:

People that use full booster due to not having points set to improvement.

People that did have 3/3 on improvement but use the 90% change instead to 100% change and got lucky.

People that upgraded their gear using duped items from the bank bug exploit thus not carring on the amount they used.

Getting the materials is not hard at all, may not be instant but is more than possible, ZOS doesn't have to refund anything to anyone, as most know the sets that got change were the FOTM sets and everyone knew it wasn't going to last.

Maverick827

Iorail wrote: »

Doing the full decon on gear idea would not be possible because how is the game going to know:

People that use full booster due to not having points set to improvement.

People that did have 3/3 on improvement but use the 90% change instead to 100% change and got lucky.

People that upgraded their gear using duped items from the bank bug exploit thus not carring on the amount they used.

Getting the materials is not hard at all, may not be instant but is more than possible, ZOS doesn't have to refund anything to anyone, as most know the sets that got change were the FOTM sets and everyone knew it wasn't going to last.

Only returning the 8 materials would be fine.

What? There was no indication that sets were going to change. In fact, they were already changed once before, though not nearly to this degree. The notion that people should have "expected" this change is asinine.

Snit

Simpler solution: Map bonuses to something more sensible. Don't map Spell Crit (current) to Health Recovery (new). Map it to Max Magicka or Spell Damage instead.

That way, sets keep the same 'flavor,' and at least remain role-appropriate for people currently wearing them.

Maverick827

Snit wrote: »

Simpler solution: Map bonuses to something more sensible. Don't map Spell Crit (current) to Health Recovery (new). Map it to Max Magicka or Spell Damage instead.

That way, sets keep the same 'flavor,' and at least remain role-appropriate for people currently wearing them.

This would be less bad, but it's still pretty annoying for min/maxers who will have to re-gear for anything short of what will be the new most optimal spell DPS 5 + 3 set combination.

Snit

Maverick827 wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Simpler solution: Map bonuses to something more sensible. Don't map Spell Crit (current) to Health Recovery (new). Map it to Max Magicka or Spell Damage instead.

That way, sets keep the same 'flavor,' and at least remain role-appropriate for people currently wearing them.

This would be less bad, but it's still pretty annoying for min/maxers who will have to re-gear for anything short of what will be the new most optimal spell DPS 5 + 3 set combination.

Annoying, yes -- but your gear would at least remain viable, if not optimal. You'll still have to replace it eventually, but not the moment the big patch hits live.

I'm pessimistic about ZOS spending development resources on a 'refund' system. That seems unlikely for what should be a one-time problem. Also, I think it just makes sense to have sets retain relevance for the roles for which players currently use them.

Inco

Well - either way it's a problem ZOS needs to address / resolve before it goes live. They already have issues with keeping people playing this game and adding a giant "F-U" to the mix isn't likely to help PR very much.
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If they DO refund the MATS - I hope that Enchantment RUNES are included as those Yellow Kuta's are just as pricey at 3k+ a pop.

Knee jerk changes of this size are generally not appreciated. Some of the Set Bonus gear seems to have gotten a decent boost, but some are not so hot.

Hypertionb14_ESO

here is another idea..


Leave already crafted items with the current set bonuses... simply adding the new effects to newly crafted gear.

This way people can get the new improved set bonuses, and still have their previous set bonuses....

monden1980b16_ESO

Thinks it was obvious that changes would be made (it happens regularly in every MMO, especially if its just a few months old).

If someone upgraded their gear to gold... what should I say... you benefited from it and you risked to have useless items after some patches.

If they'd increase the level cap (in this case VR cap), it would be useless as well and everyone would have to craft something new.

Demanding a full refund of upgrade materials is demanding too much I think...

Maverick827

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Thinks it was obvious that changes would be made (it happens regularly in every MMO, especially if its just a few months old).

I don't know of any MMO that has altered expensive end-game gear to such a degree.

If someone upgraded their gear to gold... what should I say... you benefited from it and you risked to have useless items after some patches.

So crafting and advancing your character is considered "taking a risk?"

If they'd increase the level cap (in this case VR cap), it would be useless as well and everyone would have to craft something new.

No, they could still use their gear. They would not be losing any stats. They would just have the option to gain more should they wish. This change will actively cause people to lose stats.

Demanding a full refund of upgrade materials is demanding too much I think...

Why? How does it affect you?

Inco

Demanding a refund is reasonable. It takes a max'd crafter 8 Dreugh Wax to upgrade a single piece of gear to legendary. Not everyone has gold gear, but those that do worked hard to get them. They did so based on the playstyle they chose and the set bonus system in place.

Fast forward... Update 3 Drops... everyone has to REMAKE new set bonus gear if they want to play somewhat close to the same. (I Heal for example and now two of my sets are a tad useless to me now w/o Spell Crit - Only reason I got them to help heals)

Cost factor? Well a Kuta, Dreugh Wax go for about 3k each roughly in todays market. Want to venture how much they will go for when update 3 hits? Yea... most likely 5k+ - which only those that do gold farm runs will have. Those that used exploits in the game will obviously be sitting on an even bigger pile of gold if they managed to keep of the BAN radar screen this long.

Caph

I too will be losing tons of gold to this update but hey, the game is developing and I really don't mind it at all. This is a great way to deal the "problems" they had before where legendary materials were way to easy to obtain.

Now everyone needs to start somewhat fresh which gives it a much more fair perspective. I have saved up gold and materials for a long time knowing that something like this would happen. So this does not come as a surprise and even if my legendary armor and weps will now be completely worthless (willows path and Twilight set), I'm happy to see some changes.

Wanthang

Caph wrote: »

I too will be losing tons of gold to this update but hey, the game is developing and I really don't mind it at all. This is a great way to deal the "problems" they had before where legendary materials were way to easy to obtain.

Now everyone needs to start somewhat fresh which gives it a much more fair perspective. I have saved up gold and materials for a long time knowing that something like this would happen. So this does not come as a surprise and even if my legendary armor and weps will now be completely worthless (willows path and Twilight set), I'm happy to see some changes.

Ok dude, first, i dont see where legendary material was so easy to obtain and maybe you have tons of time to farm gold and materials, that is good for you but not for everyone

Artemiisia

I seriously also doubt it, the game is a progression, and you wont stay vr12 for the rest of the game.

So it surprises me, that so many gets this reaction.

Now gonna tell you a big secret:

The next set of legendary gear you make, hold on to your seat, its a life changer !!

Will go OUT OF DATE, as well



when thats said, I know it sucks for sure, but be thankful that you had legendary gear for how long you had, and think about how you go about making the next set

Maverick827

Artemiisia wrote: »

I seriously also doubt it, the game is a progression, and you wont stay vr12 for the rest of the game.

So it surprises me, that so many gets this reaction.

Now gonna tell you a big secret:

The next set of legendary gear you make, hold on to your seat, its a life changer !!

Will go OUT OF DATE, as well



when thats said, I know it sucks for sure, but be thankful that you had legendary gear for how long you had, and think about how you go about making the next set

Why is it so difficult to understand the difference between needing to acquire new gear because new content has been released and needing to acquire new gear because your old gear was arbitrarily made unusable?

Jaxom

Maverick827 wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

I seriously also doubt it, the game is a progression, and you wont stay vr12 for the rest of the game.

So it surprises me, that so many gets this reaction.

Now gonna tell you a big secret:

The next set of legendary gear you make, hold on to your seat, its a life changer !!

Will go OUT OF DATE, as well



when thats said, I know it sucks for sure, but be thankful that you had legendary gear for how long you had, and think about how you go about making the next set

Why is it so difficult to understand the difference between needing to acquire new gear because new content has been released and needing to acquire new gear because your old gear was arbitrarily made unusable?

They have blinders on. The excuse of "new gear in MMO's is true", they are just applying it incorrectly. New gear in MMOs' is about progression not about having the current top end gear compeltely changed. Apples and Oranges. Artemiisia clearly isnt grasping this concept.

There may be groans if they increased the VR cap again and our gear goes outdated, BUT (here is the key), you can still use the legendary gear you made for the purpose you made it. Changing Spell Crit to Health and Magicka recovery.....yeah....not even close.

Artemiisia

I do grasp that concept, but heres the thing, the game is new, of course there will be lots of changes to it from the start, when suddenly the servers get full of people, that will do about anything to get a head start, grinding or what ever, this will result in new or changes to

Balance
Gear/Bonus
Quests
Trails
Pvp

and so on, so if you have seen other mmos games from the start you would know this, and would probably not had been in such a hurry to do things so fast.

Artemiisia

and hey I use willows and twilight as well as warlock.

Nothing in 1.3 from my gear will work, its sucks yes, but ill adapt to it

Jaxom

I get there will be changes. There always are. What I dont understand is why they would change the fundamental stats of existing gear so dramatically. You are going from a highly sought out stat (crit), to the least sought out stat (regen). If you understand that concept, how can you say it's the same thing as new content. It's just not.

Progression and balance, I'm all for. Changing the most used gear to something completely different is not OK in my book. I'm not asking for material back, I'd like to understand from Zenimax why they felt the need to change it the way they did.

Artemiisia

they changing it for the simple reason, to make stamina user more valued, and because they probably didnt see the fact we found a way to stack our crtis to over 50% combining those sets.

Still I get where you coming from, im in the same boat.

Matuzes

Snit

This isn't the usual gear-obsolescence cycle in MMO's, via expansions or increases in the level cap. This is limited to a select group of players. If you're wearing legendary gear in the few item sets that went from DPS gear to Tanking/ Sustain kit, you're screwed.

Naturally, most players don't care, as it doesn't effect them.