Are V levels a little too easy now?

JinShepard01

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Yet another person who is deluded into thinking that this game has "1-50, and v1-v12" instead of reality, which is that its "1-61", and there is no difference between pre-and-post vet leveling.

tldr; Leveling is leveling. There doesn't need to be any "difference".

Sorry you mean 1-150.. well 160+ if you count Craglorn.

kieso

I still go in thinking about each engagement and I interrupt, dodge when I see red. I suppose I don't HAVE to but I still do because I find the dodging, blocking stuff to be fun. There's still good challenging fights with world bosses; I soloed the cave of memories yesterday which was fun and tough.

LariahHunding

kitsinni wrote: »

I felt the opposite I thought it was mind numbing before. Spending that much time on every group of three just to get through some boring quest that I had already done to get whoop-de-doo 10k xp! Is it still boring and tedius .. yes but at least it isn't boring, tedius and extremely slow!

If you want a challenge there is plenty of challenging stuff in this game I just don't get why it should be mid-level leveling.

Solo in Craglorn over world, solo craglorn public dungeons, do Vet CoH, do trials even some of the lower level Vet Dungeons are a challenge.

Yeah, if you want a challenge go take out some group of air and storm atronauchs with a couple of casters thrown, or go solo an anomaly or burial site.

LariahHunding

Hilgara wrote: »

Elad13 wrote: »

Your first sentence in this clearly shows you have not been in vet areas either the last 2 weeks or after 1.3 update. ...there is definitely more people in vet zones especially v9+

I was in I think v8 after the nerf. Stood waiting for someone to come along to do a dolmen. No one came so tried soloing it. Got it 2nd attempt. Wasn't expecting to get anywhere near to be honest but now I know they are possible I can prepare properly and solo any of them. If there are more people in vet then that's great for the game. The irony is that now you don't actually need more people for the content.

What puzzles me is ZOS have been very careful about addressing balance issues between class. Stating that they need to go very slowly so that they don't over do it. I whish they has used that same philosophy with vet. Little steps to find a good balance.

Don't know if was this patch, but soloed one in V7 and the spawn rate seems to be keyed to how many is at the dolmen, never noticed that before.

Hilgara

LariahHunding wrote: »

Yeah, if you want a challenge go take out some group of air and storm atronauchs with a couple of casters thrown, or go solo an anomaly or burial site.

The whole point of immersion is that you don't go looking for the danger. it comes looking for you

Hilgara

LariahHunding wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Elad13 wrote: »

Your first sentence in this clearly shows you have not been in vet areas either the last 2 weeks or after 1.3 update. ...there is definitely more people in vet zones especially v9+

I was in I think v8 after the nerf. Stood waiting for someone to come along to do a dolmen. No one came so tried soloing it. Got it 2nd attempt. Wasn't expecting to get anywhere near to be honest but now I know they are possible I can prepare properly and solo any of them. If there are more people in vet then that's great for the game. The irony is that now you don't actually need more people for the content.

What puzzles me is ZOS have been very careful about addressing balance issues between class. Stating that they need to go very slowly so that they don't over do it. I whish they has used that same philosophy with vet. Little steps to find a good balance.

Don't know if was this patch, but soloed one in V7 and the spawn rate seems to be keyed to how many is at the dolmen, never noticed that before.

It did the same before but it stepped up a certain numbers. I think the first step was at 4 people so 3 maning was easier than 4 maning. never been proven or acknowledged but just my impressions

Anastasia

Calrid wrote: »

I know why they made veteran levels easier, because people who don't like grouping and want to play there own way, blah, blah, blah and so on I am sure we all read the bumpf...

But has anyone noticed that it's now just a little too easy, I mean I have gone from thinking about first targets and strategy to just bundling in there like a numpty and hitting things 'til they die, and now I seem to have gone from very vulnerable to super human and immortal.

Ok you could of tweaked it a little but this change has just made it all a bit pedestrian which shouldn't be what Veteran is about. I play a Nightblade, pretty much pure stealth single strike dps set up, in medium armour, bow (for range and initiating combat particularly in the wilderness) and dual wield (for dungeons where room is limited and melee situations) btw, medium armour, yeah I know everyone says light is god at high levels which is another thing I have had issues with for a long time, but I posted a thread about this already, fix it it sucks and is just plain dumb and since it plays such an enormous part of the game do it soon. ('nuff said).

Anyway I know I can only speak for v1-3 areas, but other people have been complaining in my guild and in genral. Did when they shifted this to pander to the casual gamer who hasn't got time or inclination to group, consider all the people who weren't complaining, or did the most vocal types who created the most noise become the sole concern, because I have seen more complaints about it being too easy by a factor of 10 than I ever did about it being too hard, so I think they might of overdone it by some considerable margin, and even v10-12s are saying this.

I realize my guild which is quite large 200+ members, regularly has 20 people on line, hardly represents the entire server, but does anyone else think they have gone from a considerate tactician to a blundering buffoon who doesn't really care about strategy- overnight? Or is it like the people who got this nerf implemented in the first place, just a vocal minority of the more social/antisocial style player?

What exactly was wrong with grouping anyway, and if you didn't you just had to play your character better, where was the beef? Dying is not the end of the world is it? Is it because it's hard to learn to play your character well and you just want an in and out breeze of a game you don't have to invest with much time? What was the actual issue, and why did they fix it? I realize at higher V levels you need to group more often, but why is that an issue, its an MMO if you want to play a lone wolf, play any of the other ES titles that cater to solo play exclusively, surely?

Why should people who want a more group and or community style MMO (which is after all what the whole genre is about) have to be punished for the views of a few players. Now I am not sure you have to take it back to the original difficulty, perhaps to keep the antisocial players happy we could just take it up a notch. Bam with the spice weasle, if you will. Then there could be a happy medium between not swanning around like Captain Amazing and actually dying a bit, not once in a blue moon. If I wanted to play like I was doing normal content again I'd play my low level characters, so I could feel smug about my mad skillz I haz picked up, incidentally, when the content was challenging. Which was kinda the point...

So long ramble short, anyone else think they went too far?

---

Hi Calrid -- Please refer to previous similarly titled threads over the past 10 days or so.
Also, shizz-storm incoming...

LariahHunding

Hilgara wrote: »

LariahHunding wrote: »

Yeah, if you want a challenge go take out some group of air and storm atronauchs with a couple of casters thrown, or go solo an anomaly or burial site.

The whole point of immersion is that you don't go looking for the danger. it comes looking for you

You could get yourself at job in Vegas as a contortionist.

Laura

hamon wrote: »

i think it depends what class you play. The horrifically unbalanced classes mean that DK and sorc are EZ-MODe templar and NB more difficult.

i levelled a templar to vet 12 . now i,m levelling a sorc. cos ive parked my templar.

and honestly playing with a sorc is so easy it's a joke. you just blow eveything to bits in seconds. If i die on my sorc its cos i,m being so careless that i virtually commited suicide.

its immpossible for zos to balance vet mode when they have failed so completely to balance the classes.

I said a million times that they need to address imbalance among the classes and weapon builds before they lowered the difficulty and that made me an elitist jerk then.

Its always been a stupid joke for sorcs and DKs with staves. The problem wasn't entirely with the difficulty but with balance... ZoS took the easy way out by making things easier without addressing the core issue of balance. It is quite literally night and day doing vet ranks with a sorc/dk compared to other classes.

I wonder if you have multiple people post under your name some times.

Anastasia

dolanjamieb16_ESO wrote: »

I too call BS on people complaining that its too easy i think its pretty much about where it should have been in the first place

You dont have to think too much but if your not thinking at all you will still be killed

Also there are now loads more ppl in the vet zones than before this too i think thie contributes to the overall feel because a lot of time now instead of been true solo with insane mobs the mobs are about right but u tend to get a hand from other people just like 1-50

**But this isn't levels 1 - 50, its Veteran Content...

---

Loads more people in the vet zones if that is different for your play times than before the nerf, means it should be awesome to be able to group up, yes? So now everyone is enjoying all kinds of grouping for the dungeons and dolmens etc eh?? Thats so outstanding. One could hope now that for whatever reason if there is a larger population, ZOS could readjust the general V+ 1- 10 mob difficulty back up a "tad" so there would be reason again to at least duo or trio up. Then they could hustle and get some interesting solo questing put in for those players who love that and have been asking for it.

That would set this all right and both groups of players would be enjoying themselves again: Solo folks would have some fun new stuff to do V+ 1- 10 and those looking for challenge would once again be looking at least at something to do for awhile before Craglorn (*which could also be 'slightly adjusted upward'!) so that ZOS could have the extra time they apparently need right now to work at the adjustments many players expect to be taken care of as relates to stamina builds, the stam/magic ratio, phasing and grouping glitches, and the rest of the lag issues.

Now THAT would be awesome for Phase II of the nerf to Vet Content. Guess we will see. I bet solo players are wondering if they are going continue to be looked at as a serious part of the population now that their voice has started to be heard going forward with Phase II, III and whatever else ZOS has planned for the Vet Content changes, yes?

kitsinni

Hilgara wrote: »

LariahHunding wrote: »

Yeah, if you want a challenge go take out some group of air and storm atronauchs with a couple of casters thrown, or go solo an anomaly or burial site.

The whole point of immersion is that you don't go looking for the danger. it comes looking for you

That pile of bull is so high I can smell it through my monitor. There is no need for mid level leveling to be really hard. You can go find something if you want to be an elitist. No reason to screw the majority of players in the game over because you think you are great at the game.

mumok

Are we still talking about this?

Lonestryder

Hilgara wrote: »

I enjoyed the risk. To me this is what immersive means. I never watched my bar while I was levelling. Clearing the zone was all I was focused on. Leaving a city limits should be dangerous in Tamriel. it should require a degree of skill and some preparation in exactly the same way it would do in the story. It amazes me how its the role layers who complained most but this it true role playing. Where in any lore does it say the villains are a *** so just brush em outta the way and off you go.

I strongly agree with all these points.

Audigy

kitsinni wrote: »

The beef was before this change there was no one to group with in the higher VR areas.

Again who cares is leveling is easier? I just can't for the life of me see what the big deal is.

First of all, VR was not leveling. This is what 1-50 was all about. Wanted to see the story, go play 1-50.

VR was the so called "Endgame" for non raiders, which implies Casuals, solo gamers and small guilds.

Its not the fault of the VR system that ZO messed up with Craglorn and their VR 12 raid and dungeon content. To put a raid based on an optional rank is silly and I guess ZO figured that out by now as well. This forced players to get to VR 12 to be able to do these dungeons and raids that came, making the once optional content mandatory...

You are also wrong, if you think the territories were empty. I saw a lot of players, yet again Craglorn ruined it - an area where mobs are faceroll and xp much higher than at VR 1-10.

The basic idea with VR was alright, it was one single patch that destroyed that idea sadly.

Anastasia

kewl wrote: »

The stated objective of VR was to increase group play. There will always be a percentage of people who don't want to group. But most of us will group to overcome challenges.

However, phasing and questing issues make grouping problematic. If VR difficulty was designed for groups and we couldn't group effectively? The changes make sense.

There are other reasons, but this is the biggest. It's not the optimal solution, but at least it will stop people from leaving the game when they reach VR.

---

Yep, it will stop people who specifically want to primarily solo in VR from leaving the game dissatisfied. Instead of providing solo content for an important part of this MMO's population - the Solo-ers, instead content was taken AWAY for another important part of this MMO's population -- those who looked forward to having a chunk of content with reason to group-play in prior to endgame.

In addition, what was taken away in the Vet+ 1-10 nerf was (while the grouping had some challenges), the grouping-encouraged content and level of mob difficulty/density was original design, put in there specifically to encourage grouping up and for practice so players could arrive in the higher endgame content prepped and good-to-go.

kitsinni

Audigy wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

The beef was before this change there was no one to group with in the higher VR areas.

Again who cares is leveling is easier? I just can't for the life of me see what the big deal is.

First of all, VR was not leveling. This is what 1-50 was all about. Wanted to see the story, go play 1-50.

VR was the so called "Endgame" for non raiders, which implies Casuals, solo gamers and small guilds.

Its not the fault of the VR system that ZO messed up with Craglorn and their VR 12 raid and dungeon content. To put a raid based on an optional rank is silly and I guess ZO figured that out by now as well. This forced players to get to VR 12 to be able to do these dungeons and raids that came, making the once optional content mandatory...

You are also wrong, if you think the territories were empty. I saw a lot of players, yet again Craglorn ruined it - an area where mobs are faceroll and xp much higher than at VR 1-10.

The basic idea with VR was alright, it was one single patch that destroyed that idea sadly.

I disagree games change with updates. VR 1-10 is absolutely leveling and at this point in the game mid-level leveling. Craglorn is current Endgame and the expansion to Craglorn will be End Game when the next VR level is upped.

They have already said they plan to increase VR levels again, like every game in history when you up the level cap you make the road to bottom of that an easier road. You don't want VR15 or even VR20 and people taking months to get to VR10 or they just give up.

A lot of Craglorn can be done solo, probably most of it with a good two man group. Some of the quests require four so I don't see how that excludes all that many people and pretty much no small guilds.

When people say that the high VR zones were empty that was after craglorn, which is why it should have been made more easily accessible the game has progressed. You can stick your head in the sand but it is what it is.

LariahHunding

Anastasia wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

The stated objective of VR was to increase group play. There will always be a percentage of people who don't want to group. But most of us will group to overcome challenges.

However, phasing and questing issues make grouping problematic. If VR difficulty was designed for groups and we couldn't group effectively? The changes make sense.

There are other reasons, but this is the biggest. It's not the optimal solution, but at least it will stop people from leaving the game when they reach VR.

---

Yep, it will stop people who specifically want to primarily solo in VR from leaving the game dissatisfied. Instead of providing solo content for an important part of this MMO's population - the Solo-ers, instead content was taken AWAY for another important part of this MMO's population -- those who looked forward to having a chunk of content to play in prior to endgame.

In addition, what was taken away in the Vet+ 1-10 nerf was (while the grouping had some challenges), the grouping-encouraged content and level of mob difficulty/density was original design, put in there specifically to encourage grouping up and for practice so players could arrive in the higher endgame content prepped and good-to-go.

Two points

1. Their "PR" sucks. I had no idea that I was "supposed" to group until now.
2. They need to fix their damn grouping to make it easier.

You "suppose" to group, but we not gonna tell you, and if you do the grouping mechanism sucks.

Honestly, VR12, Tamriel Hero, here. VR was tedious as hell and a lot of it had to to with the overland trash mobs. And the whole time-shifting, dream-weaving reason for the journey was a bunch of illogical crap that made me not care.

Ok, I lied.

Three:

RIGHT NOW, endgame is groups, you learn groups by grouping, in structured dungeons. Want to prepare players for current endgame, force them to do group dungeons along the way. Grouping for questing DOES NOT prepare you for the current endgame.

Fighting overland, op'ed trash mobs in tedious VR content does not prepared one for the current endgame.

AND, probably, only 1% of the 1% are effective in the current endgame without being skirt and stick.

mustangnut001

No, I don't think they went to far.

Here are the reason why I don't like to group.

1) Other people tend to go slower than I do. I don't have all the time in the world to play, so my time is valuable.

2) I might need to get off unexpectedly for long periods at a time. That would be inconsiderate of me to be in a group and then expect them to wait around for me to come back.

3) There is usually one person in a group that is a jerk. Which is a complete waste of my time and energy listening to them whine about how much they think they are the standard by which all things ESO is measured.

So, making it easier not to be in a group is great.

Alphashado

Hilgara wrote: »

LariahHunding wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Elad13 wrote: »

Your first sentence in this clearly shows you have not been in vet areas either the last 2 weeks or after 1.3 update. ...there is definitely more people in vet zones especially v9+

I was in I think v8 after the nerf. Stood waiting for someone to come along to do a dolmen. No one came so tried soloing it. Got it 2nd attempt. Wasn't expecting to get anywhere near to be honest but now I know they are possible I can prepare properly and solo any of them. If there are more people in vet then that's great for the game. The irony is that now you don't actually need more people for the content.

What puzzles me is ZOS have been very careful about addressing balance issues between class. Stating that they need to go very slowly so that they don't over do it. I whish they has used that same philosophy with vet. Little steps to find a good balance.

Don't know if was this patch, but soloed one in V7 and the spawn rate seems to be keyed to how many is at the dolmen, never noticed that before.

It did the same before but it stepped up a certain numbers. I think the first step was at 4 people so 3 maning was easier than 4 maning. never been proven or acknowledged but just my impressions

I remember reading somewhere that dolmen scale with the number of players. In fact it was a developed interview now that I think about it. Also I'm curious how many people soloing dolmen are doing it with NBs. I know that your vet is a NB. Seems to me that a NB could roll in, burst a elite down from stealth while popping all their mitigation CDs to absorb dmg from adds. Then vanish, rinse and repeat. I haven't tried to solo one the same VR as my Templar yet, but I suspect it would be much harder because there is no way to vanish and instantly ditch agro in order to start fresh. So a Templar would simply run out of magicka and then die.

hamon

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

i think it depends what class you play. The horrifically unbalanced classes mean that DK and sorc are EZ-MODe templar and NB more difficult.

i levelled a templar to vet 12 . now i,m levelling a sorc. cos ive parked my templar.

and honestly playing with a sorc is so easy it's a joke. you just blow eveything to bits in seconds. If i die on my sorc its cos i,m being so careless that i virtually commited suicide.

its immpossible for zos to balance vet mode when they have failed so completely to balance the classes.

Honestly some of it is based on build as well. I cant see any halfway decent templar build using their healing spear pokey ability having any trouble at all in VR content now.

Yeah i said healing spear pokey ability!

that isnt true. i went to vet 10 reapers the other day to test it post patch. i had a fight with 2 elite boss mobs at same time. it ended in a draw. one of them was a healer. i simply couldnt kill her fast enough before she healed again. However with jab spam they couldnt kill me either.. it was just stupid.

Laura wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

i think it depends what class you play. The horrifically unbalanced classes mean that DK and sorc are EZ-MODe templar and NB more difficult.

i levelled a templar to vet 12 . now i,m levelling a sorc. cos ive parked my templar.

and honestly playing with a sorc is so easy it's a joke. you just blow eveything to bits in seconds. If i die on my sorc its cos i,m being so careless that i virtually commited suicide.

its immpossible for zos to balance vet mode when they have failed so completely to balance the classes.

I said a million times that they need to address imbalance among the classes and weapon builds before they lowered the difficulty and that made me an elitist jerk then.

Its always been a stupid joke for sorcs and DKs with staves. The problem wasn't entirely with the difficulty but with balance... ZoS took the easy way out by making things easier without addressing the core issue of balance. It is quite literally night and day doing vet ranks with a sorc/dk compared to other classes.

I wonder if you have multiple people post under your name some times.

no i have always realised that due to the complete lack of class balance the difficulty you experience is vastly diffrent depending what class you play. However even acknowledging this i have argued for months that it needs re-balanced.

those who find it hard due to class choice have but one option to make it easier , re-roll ez-mode classes. while those who find it ez simply make it harder by using imagination.
where you and i differ is in that i can extend my decision and opinions further than simply personal experience based on my class.
This has been the problem with the debate. So many sorcs and dk's think they are super elite players cos they find it easy. This in many cases is utter delusion which would have became apparent if htey had to use a templar at high vet levels.

hamon

Audigy wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

The beef was before this change there was no one to group with in the higher VR areas.

Again who cares is leveling is easier? I just can't for the life of me see what the big deal is.

First of all, VR was not leveling. This is what 1-50 was all about. Wanted to see the story, go play 1-50.

.

jesus man ive explained to you in as simple terms possible how utterly wrong this statement is.
what part of levelling = every level till you can level no more do you find immpossible to grasp? should i draw you some diagrams or something?

every level till you hit v12 is levelling. then if they add more LEVELS v12 will also be included in the "still levelling " part of the game.

you keep repeating this nonsense.

aleister

After this change, I went back to work on Cadwell's instead of grinding for some variety and generally, yes, it does seem to be pretty easy now, but some fights seem about right. The trash mobs still seem like they are harder than the quest-series end bosses, though and to me that was always the biggest problem, not the overall difficulty.

PBpsy

Today was the first time I played some PVE in some time. I managed to completely solo a Craglorn Delve with my NB. Two in fact Chiselshriek Mine and Buried Sands. I know they are the easier ones but still. I will try for a solo Hircine's later. The nerf is really damn obvious and kind of stupid.

Svann

I honestly think they are a little stronger than medium setting in Skyrim was at this level (close to end game level).

Alphashado

PBpsy wrote: »

Today was the first time I played some PVE in some time. I managed to completely solo a Craglorn Delve with my NB. Two in fact Chiselshriek Mine and Buried Sands. I know they are the easier ones but still. I will try for a solo Hircine's later. The nerf is really damn obvious and kind of stupid.

Interesting considering that Craglorn wasn't included in the nerf.

Orchish

Depends on your role. It was never hard for me as a tank, but it was very grindy for me as a tank. I have very little dps, thus even trash mobs started to feel like mini bosses. As i said, i made it to vet 8 before the change with my current tank and never found any of the content too hard, just found it very tedious. I quickly became bored of the vet zones and started to only PvP every day. Since the change i have been finishing off the vet zones at a much more enjoyable pace. Currently half way to vet 11.

So i have to say i like these recent changes.

PBpsy

Alphashado wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Today was the first time I played some PVE in some time. I managed to completely solo a Craglorn Delve with my NB. Two in fact Chiselshriek Mine and Buried Sands. I know they are the easier ones but still. I will try for a solo Hircine's later. The nerf is really damn obvious and kind of stupid.

Interesting considering that Craglorn wasn't included in the nerf.

Well I guess I got 30% better in one week of not playing. Maybe that's why I don't need to drop a Veil Of blades In fights that required it before. In the mean time I also learned how to shrug off those Taking Aim! arrows that usually meant death if I didn't interrupt them and now are barely worth the change of rhythm to try to interrupt. Craglorn not touched my ass.

DeLindsay

VR Zones are the same difficulty since Monday's change that they were pre1.2 (Craglorn), and I'm not talking about the 3-4 day bug where VR enemies had god mode turned on. Yes VR zones are certainly easier than they were before Monday but aren't any easier than from launch until 1.2. That said, VR certainly aren't "hard" by any means but they are still a little more difficult than 1-50 zones are. The day of the change I watched a player at level in a VR5 zone where I was finishing up some quests for the zone achievement die to 3 enemies. I guess he thought ZoS nerfed it into the ground and found out differently lol.

You can still die if you stand in stupid, even after the change so I'm not too worried about it.

Alphashado

PBpsy wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Today was the first time I played some PVE in some time. I managed to completely solo a Craglorn Delve with my NB. Two in fact Chiselshriek Mine and Buried Sands. I know they are the easier ones but still. I will try for a solo Hircine's later. The nerf is really damn obvious and kind of stupid.

Interesting considering that Craglorn wasn't included in the nerf.

Well I guess I got 30% better in one week of not playing. Maybe that's why I don't need to drop a Veil Of blades In fights that required it before. In the mean time I also learned how to shrug off those Taking Aim! arrows that usually meant death if I didn't interrupt them and now are barely worth the change of rhythm to try to interrupt. Craglorn not touched my ass.

Craglorn mobs never were as tough as VR 9-10 mobs. Before the nerf a 3 pack in VR 9 zones were more clallenging than a 5 pack in Craglorn. Some of them I mean. Depending on the mob. With all due respect, you are mistaken. Craglorn wasn't nerfed.

Hilgara

kitsinni wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

LariahHunding wrote: »

Yeah, if you want a challenge go take out some group of air and storm atronauchs with a couple of casters thrown, or go solo an anomaly or burial site.

The whole point of immersion is that you don't go looking for the danger. it comes looking for you

That pile of bull is so high I can smell it through my monitor. There is no need for mid level leveling to be really hard. You can go find something if you want to be an elitist. No reason to screw the majority of players in the game over because you think you are great at the game.

You really need to chill a bit. All that hate and frustration cant be doing you any good. Every time I see one of your replies to my posts I see this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0NXvmnpDlg