So I logged in today, first time in two weeks...

ers101284b14_ESO

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Please don't mention people leaving the game around here.

Jimmies will be rustled.

It's not about people leaving the game. People leaving and joining is completely natural. Pushing your ideas that the game is dying and going F2P by using sources that have already been proven false is whats annoying. Like when people try to use VG Chartz even though it has been proven that they are not reliable. Or try to use guild numbers like no other MMO on the planet has ever had dead guilds. So far this game is functioning like any other Sub based MMO. People leave People join.

Guild numbers is a solid metric to use for one reason-Megaserver.

Except that you have multiple guilds you can join so say 500 people have 5 guilds. So it looks like 2500 people quit when only 500 quit. I have seen brand new people start and brand new guilds start everyday. Again not a metric to go by.

Kulthax

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Please don't mention people leaving the game around here.

Jimmies will be rustled.

It's not about people leaving the game. People leaving and joining is completely natural. Pushing your ideas that the game is dying and going F2P by using sources that have already been proven false is whats annoying. Like when people try to use VG Chartz even though it has been proven that they are not reliable. Or try to use guild numbers like no other MMO on the planet has ever had dead guilds. So far this game is functioning like any other Sub based MMO. People leave People join.

Guild numbers is a solid metric to use for one reason-Megaserver.

Except that you have multiple guilds you can join so say 500 people have 5 guilds. So it looks like 2500 people quit when only 500 quit. I have seen brand new people start and brand new guilds start everyday. Again not a metric to go by.

That is assuming that the 5 guilds you belong to all have the same members for each guild. So yeah..it is a good metric to go by.

ers101284b14_ESO

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Please don't mention people leaving the game around here.

Jimmies will be rustled.

It's not about people leaving the game. People leaving and joining is completely natural. Pushing your ideas that the game is dying and going F2P by using sources that have already been proven false is whats annoying. Like when people try to use VG Chartz even though it has been proven that they are not reliable. Or try to use guild numbers like no other MMO on the planet has ever had dead guilds. So far this game is functioning like any other Sub based MMO. People leave People join.

Guild numbers is a solid metric to use for one reason-Megaserver.

Except that you have multiple guilds you can join so say 500 people have 5 guilds. So it looks like 2500 people quit when only 500 quit. I have seen brand new people start and brand new guilds start everyday. Again not a metric to go by.

That is assuming that the 5 guilds you belong to all have the same members for each guild. So yeah..it is a good metric to go by.

Ok so going by guilds

FF11 could never find one because I could never find any one to play with -- been going Strong for 11 years

Everquest 2 Played for 2 months and went through 3 guilds that started and died

WoW played for 3 months and had 6 guilds die off

FF14-- played for 3 months went through 4 dead guilds

SWTOR played for 4 months had 1 guild that grew the entire time

Kulthax

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Please don't mention people leaving the game around here.

Jimmies will be rustled.

It's not about people leaving the game. People leaving and joining is completely natural. Pushing your ideas that the game is dying and going F2P by using sources that have already been proven false is whats annoying. Like when people try to use VG Chartz even though it has been proven that they are not reliable. Or try to use guild numbers like no other MMO on the planet has ever had dead guilds. So far this game is functioning like any other Sub based MMO. People leave People join.

Guild numbers is a solid metric to use for one reason-Megaserver.

Except that you have multiple guilds you can join so say 500 people have 5 guilds. So it looks like 2500 people quit when only 500 quit. I have seen brand new people start and brand new guilds start everyday. Again not a metric to go by.

That is assuming that the 5 guilds you belong to all have the same members for each guild. So yeah..it is a good metric to go by.

Ok so going by guilds

FF11 could never find one because I could never find any one to play with -- been going Strong for 11 years

Everquest 2 Played for 2 months and went through 3 guilds that started and died

WoW played for 3 months and had 6 guilds die off

FF14-- played for 3 months went through 4 dead guilds

SWTOR played for 4 months had 1 guild that grew the entire time

And none of those games had a megaserver and had to decrease the number of available servers or close the game completely, so back to my original point.

Megaserver + Guild Member reduction = concern for the game at the very least.

ers101284b14_ESO

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Please don't mention people leaving the game around here.

Jimmies will be rustled.

It's not about people leaving the game. People leaving and joining is completely natural. Pushing your ideas that the game is dying and going F2P by using sources that have already been proven false is whats annoying. Like when people try to use VG Chartz even though it has been proven that they are not reliable. Or try to use guild numbers like no other MMO on the planet has ever had dead guilds. So far this game is functioning like any other Sub based MMO. People leave People join.

Guild numbers is a solid metric to use for one reason-Megaserver.

Except that you have multiple guilds you can join so say 500 people have 5 guilds. So it looks like 2500 people quit when only 500 quit. I have seen brand new people start and brand new guilds start everyday. Again not a metric to go by.

That is assuming that the 5 guilds you belong to all have the same members for each guild. So yeah..it is a good metric to go by.

Ok so going by guilds

FF11 could never find one because I could never find any one to play with -- been going Strong for 11 years

Everquest 2 Played for 2 months and went through 3 guilds that started and died

WoW played for 3 months and had 6 guilds die off

FF14-- played for 3 months went through 4 dead guilds

SWTOR played for 4 months had 1 guild that grew the entire time

And none of those games had a megaserver and had to decrease the number of available servers or close the game completely, so back to my original point.

Megaserver + Guild Member reduction = concern for the game at the very least.

The Megaserver does the exact same thing but without showing us. Those games you can see how many shards They where using where as this one you can't. So how shards did it start with compared to how many there are now? How many people do they put in each instance compared to how many instances there are? Numbers you don't have.

Seeing zones packed, some guilds starting and being successfull, the directors themselves say no its not dying off and made up numbers from unreliable sources= normal Sub based MMO. . The more popular you are the more people hate you.

Mud_Puppy

Didn't someone establish early in this thread that company ZoS is working with isn't the f2p dev? They have similar names but are not the same entity. Pretty sure someone in page one pointed this out.

Fuzzylumpkins

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Please don't mention people leaving the game around here.

Jimmies will be rustled.

It's not about people leaving the game. People leaving and joining is completely natural. Pushing your ideas that the game is dying and going F2P by using sources that have already been proven false is whats annoying. Like when people try to use VG Chartz even though it has been proven that they are not reliable. Or try to use guild numbers like no other MMO on the planet has ever had dead guilds. So far this game is functioning like any other Sub based MMO. People leave People join.

Guild numbers is a solid metric to use for one reason-Megaserver.

Except that you have multiple guilds you can join so say 500 people have 5 guilds. So it looks like 2500 people quit when only 500 quit. I have seen brand new people start and brand new guilds start everyday. Again not a metric to go by.

That is assuming that the 5 guilds you belong to all have the same members for each guild. So yeah..it is a good metric to go by.

Ok so going by guilds

FF11 could never find one because I could never find any one to play with -- been going Strong for 11 years

Everquest 2 Played for 2 months and went through 3 guilds that started and died

WoW played for 3 months and had 6 guilds die off

FF14-- played for 3 months went through 4 dead guilds

SWTOR played for 4 months had 1 guild that grew the entire time

Seemingly being hung up on comparing guild numbers in this game to games that lasted longer and had only 1 guild option is not only counter productive but defeating your own point.

It is natural players come and go in MMOs, it is not a good sign when it is this damned fast after release. Having the option of 5 guilds with varying directions that all deplete of active players (remaining filled with 400+ inactives due to even GMs leaving that no longer allows for new members or removal of cancelled subs) within months of release is an astonishing accurate way of seeing what is happening to a games population.

If we had no option for multiple guilds, I would not even look twice at dwindling active players as I would presume the players stopped or maybe some went elsewhere. Personally I did not belong to 5 like minded guilds. I picked a pvp focused, pve focused, farm guild and a few trade guilds. 2 AD only and 3 cross realm. It speaks volumes that the rosters are filled with players inactive now for 4-9 weeks.

Malpherian

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

Didn't someone establish early in this thread that company ZoS is working with isn't the f2p dev? They have similar names but are not the same entity. Pretty sure someone in page one pointed this out.

No, it is the exact same company, the only thing the ZOS person stated was that they had been working with SG since beta.

Again ZOS DID NOT state, that ESO was not going free to play, or that SG was NOT helping them form an F2P system.

What they DID STATE was that SG had been working with them with accounts since beta.

nerevarine1138

Malpherian wrote: »

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

Didn't someone establish early in this thread that company ZoS is working with isn't the f2p dev? They have similar names but are not the same entity. Pretty sure someone in page one pointed this out.

No, it is the exact same company, the only thing the ZOS person stated was that they had been working with SG since beta.

Again ZOS DID NOT state, that ESO was not going free to play, or that SG was NOT helping them form an F2P system.

What they DID STATE was that SG had been working with them with accounts since beta.

They also didn't state that SG was NOT helping them develop a new recipe for fried chicken that will compete with the Colonel's 11 herbs and spices. They didn't say they're not doing it, so clearly, that means that it's a possibility. Right guys?

Now, everyone put on the provided tinfoil hats and sing "A Mighty Fortress is Our God".

Malpherian

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

Didn't someone establish early in this thread that company ZoS is working with isn't the f2p dev? They have similar names but are not the same entity. Pretty sure someone in page one pointed this out.

No, it is the exact same company, the only thing the ZOS person stated was that they had been working with SG since beta.

Again ZOS DID NOT state, that ESO was not going free to play, or that SG was NOT helping them form an F2P system.

What they DID STATE was that SG had been working with them with accounts since beta.

They also didn't state that SG was NOT helping them develop a new recipe for fried chicken that will compete with the Colonel's 11 herbs and spices. They didn't say they're not doing it, so clearly, that means that it's a possibility. Right guys?

Now, everyone put on the provided tinfoil hats and sing "A Mighty Fortress is Our God".

Well.. considering that would be trademark infringement they probably are not helping develop a new chicken recipe with.... (But I do love KFC)

Has nothing to do with tinfoil hats either. There are trends in a business, which say it is heading in a certain direction, whether the business knows it or not (usually they do). What they say to the public is another thing.

What I see in ESO, are the same trends I saw in the other games before they went F2P. Does this mean ESO will go F2P? No. Zenni is the largest and wealthiestt Gaming company in the US (Yes they have more money then Blizzard according to their investment portfolio). I am not sure where their income comes from exactly, but they are reported as having enough financial support to do whatever they want.

Does this mean they wont go F2P? Also No.

It really depends on how greedy they get or whether they think an F2P system will be more profitable, put more people on their servers, and be easier to manage.

Mud_Puppy

Malpherian wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

Didn't someone establish early in this thread that company ZoS is working with isn't the f2p dev? They have similar names but are not the same entity. Pretty sure someone in page one pointed this out.

No, it is the exact same company, the only thing the ZOS person stated was that they had been working with SG since beta.

Again ZOS DID NOT state, that ESO was not going free to play, or that SG was NOT helping them form an F2P system.

What they DID STATE was that SG had been working with them with accounts since beta.

They also didn't state that SG was NOT helping them develop a new recipe for fried chicken that will compete with the Colonel's 11 herbs and spices. They didn't say they're not doing it, so clearly, that means that it's a possibility. Right guys?

Now, everyone put on the provided tinfoil hats and sing "A Mighty Fortress is Our God".

Well.. considering that would be trademark infringement they probably are not helping develop a new chicken recipe with.... (But I do love KFC)

The next town over from my has a KFC - Tacobell combo and I think they are trying to take over the world. We should find out if they're working with ZoS.

tordr86b16_ESO

...

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

blah blah blah

Some miss completely that is summer. People go on holidays, they go out to the beach, on barbecues etc.

I have work colleagues, that are on the 3rd week of their holiday. Others ready to leave and come back to work in September.

Not many sit on their computers playing games when is that hot weather. Come September-October then we could see how many are back or not.

Just logic. Was always like that with MMOs, since started playing UO back in 1997.

There is something called LIFE, out there guys

blauschwinge

There is something called LIFE, out there guys

- That is just an urban legend! All the photos I ever saw were blurry or undoubtedly photoshopped.

- Currently I am logging in once or twice a day to collect Hireling Mails, feed the remaining Horses to 50 Carrying, Learn new Traits, micromanage my storage. I still like the game, and I enjoy playing with a friend and mopping up the final two Vet Areas I have open.

So far I like that ESO isn't as addictive and OCD creating as WoW, I can ejoy it whenever I feel like it and dont really care about the 13eu a month, but of course, I would also be pleased by a F2P Model that is not Pay to Win.

TRIP233

Yeah, and the worst part is: we can see how bad the population in this game really is, even if ZeinMax doesn't want to say anything. Most of the guilds I'm in have at least 5 people on during prime time and that's out of about 200 for the biggest guild I'm in.

Katkon

Malpherian wrote: »

Sleeping Giant is now working with ZOS apparently also, and their specialty is F2P marketing. So I guess ZOS is going F2P in the next 6 months to a year.

Classic case of unsubstantiated rumor-mongering.

First, Sleepy Giant is not a marketing company per se, nor do they specialize in F2P. They're a tech consulting/development arm that actually builds stuff. Their primary "engine" goes by the name of fofofum. They DO own a small financing arm that can help small independent studios get funded (and here they also offer some marketing etc. support), but with ZeniMax's deep pockets, and backing by Bethesda, this unlikely to apply to ESO.

Second, if you take a look at their website you'll see they've been supporting ZeniMax from the beginning with - and I quote - "custom web development and account management services."

I do agree that your claims are a lot more exciting, but I'm afraid they're simply unfounded.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

LrdRahvin wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Cyanhide wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

What does SG do?:

* Cash Shop Purchases
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

Every game that has went F2P has denied they were going F2P until the system was already in place, and ready to go. It's just marketing policy they want to milk your subs until the very last moment.

^ This. Trion even went so far as to still be peddling year long subs only a month before the KNEW they'd be going f2p with Rift. Developers can pull some SERIOUSLY shady stuff.

Preachin to the choir here. I bought one of those year subs a month before they went f2p. Trion is the shadiest, most disgusting game company to date. Even worse then EA imo. Holy crap do I loathe them. If ESO goes F2P I'm gone for sure.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Kulthax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Please don't mention people leaving the game around here.

Jimmies will be rustled.

It's not about people leaving the game. People leaving and joining is completely natural. Pushing your ideas that the game is dying and going F2P by using sources that have already been proven false is whats annoying. Like when people try to use VG Chartz even though it has been proven that they are not reliable. Or try to use guild numbers like no other MMO on the planet has ever had dead guilds. So far this game is functioning like any other Sub based MMO. People leave People join.

Guild numbers is a solid metric to use for one reason-Megaserver.

No it isn't, since you can join 5 guilds they are pretty deluded no matter what metric you use. Guild hopping happens.

Therefore you are completely off-base and wrong with a capital W.

Snit

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Wow, this thread is like a poster child for how bad rumors get started.

Someone speculates that F2P is around the corner because...

Yep. Confirmation Bias is a helluva drug

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Cyhawk wrote: »

murklor007neb18_ESO wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

But in all honesty if ZOS would just remove classes, then 1.5 Million TES fans would come die hard running back. (As that's the reason they didn't buy the game or sub at release after beta).

Really? You think out of all the things wrong with the game, broken PvP, no competition with lack of guild tags, no roleplayer aids, no EU server, plethora of bugs, broken guild stores, boring gameplay, boring veteran levels, forced group endgame, 5+ hours maintenances, etc etc etc... It was the class division that made 1.5 million TES fans run away?

Removing the classes isnt going to make the game any more fun. All it would do is create a build meta and then you'd have 100% vampire insert-FOTM-here instead of just 25% now. The skill system in ESO is not nearly enough varied to allow for the removal of classes. You cant be whatever you want, all you do is gimp yourself.

you really think that? Guess you haven't been exposed to many games in your life then. There is another MMO, pretty popular. Been going on for longer than even WoW has that has no major restrictions on what a player can be. Sure there are FOTMs, but then people counteract that with anti-builds. Support is always needed and is always played. Overall, there is always a balance in the game, even when things get out of hand and end up getting a nerf. I'm talking about Eve, the only MMO to ONLY increase its userbase over the years.

We'd have to have free-ish skill resets to make this happen, but its entirely within the realm of possibility. Then again ZoS probably won't do it. I also agree there aren't enough skill lines to do this just yet, but it'd be a start.

There is no way in hell that getting rid of classes would help population. It would hinder it. There would be too many people that couldn't figure it out. I've seen plenty of posts that were saying they needed more structure.

Also, classes have been in TES for a long time. Stop thinking Skyrim is TES. It is less TES then this game is by far. It's just the one all the noobs loved. I couldn't stand it longer then 10min at a pop. It's like watching paint dry.

Vahrokh

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Guild numbers is a solid metric to use for one reason-Megaserver.

No it isn't, since you can join 5 guilds they are pretty deluded no matter what metric you use. Guild hopping happens.

Therefore you are completely off-base and wrong with a capital W.[/quote]

Could you please explain me why the server (VR zones) looks WAY more desert than Age Of Conan or Warhammer Online (two classic failures, profit speaking) 2 months into the game?

Could you please explain why they still are, after the VR neutering?

Could you please explain why other MMOs (citing WOW and EvE Online just as example) show a summer drop of 30-35% of players, while here it looks like 95%?

poodlemasterb16_ESO

mutharex wrote: »

Another "make this game like I want it or the game dies" thread masked as a concern one, how original...

^^^

Vahrokh

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Another "make this game like I want it or the game dies" thread masked as a concern one, how original...

^^^

35 minutes waiting at Green's Marrow Dolmen (Greenshade), not a single person showed up. At Saturday 9pm which the past weeks was the most poulated hour of the most populated day.

I REALLY love this game (expecially when it was somewhat challenging) but thinking it's going fine... well... it's really stretching it a lot.

Tandor

Vahrokh wrote: »

Could you please explain me why the server (VR zones) looks WAY more desert than Age Of Conan or Warhammer Online (two classic failures, profit speaking) 2 months into the game?

Could you please explain why they still are, after the VR neutering?

Could you please explain why other MMOs (citing WOW and EvE Online just as example) show a summer drop of 30-35% of players, while here it looks like 95%?

On the first point, the fact that the VR zones (and concept) are unpopular doesn't mean people aren't playing the game. The analysis of those zones as being deserted is in any event just your subjective view.

On the second point, both sets of figures are completely unsubstantiated. Again, they are just your subjective view.

I don't doubt that the numbers are down, they usually are in a new MMO two or three months after launch, and in this case there have clearly been some issues especially for PvP'ers. To suggest, however, that they are down by 95% spoils your argument.

Artemiisia

well in one of my guilds of around 101 people, we had 49 people online today at the same time.

many starting guilds from day one, dies because everyone felt they wanted one and thought no work would be into maintaining it.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Malpherian wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

We even told them they were going to lose a huge majority of TES fans because of it's restrictions.

Any REAL Elder Scrolls fan (i.e. someone who didn't just become a "fan" due to Skyrim) know that classes have been in all Elder Scrolls games except Redguard.

I think your confusing "Races" with "Classes". and yes Classes have been in TES games all along, but only in ESO do they force you to play a certain way and restrict what other "skills" and "spells" you can learn.

I think it's actually you that's confused. Pretty sure that was a reference to the TES redguard game. He wasn't saying that all races but redguard have been in the game, especially since I'm 99% sure redguards have always been there.

Vahrokh

Tandor wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Could you please explain me why the server (VR zones) looks WAY more desert than Age Of Conan or Warhammer Online (two classic failures, profit speaking) 2 months into the game?

Could you please explain why they still are, after the VR neutering?

Could you please explain why other MMOs (citing WOW and EvE Online just as example) show a summer drop of 30-35% of players, while here it looks like 95%?

On the first point, the fact that the VR zones (and concept) are unpopular doesn't mean people aren't playing the game. The analysis of those zones as being deserted is in any event just your subjective view.

In my subjective view, I had to participate to 5 x Wilderking Court and 5 x Green's Marrow Dolmens plus about 2 times per each outworld boss otherwise people would still be there asking for somebody to help them.

Call it subjective, considering this is the second "situation" of this kind I see under my eyes and the first on a Saturday prime time, I consider it quite tangible.

Tandor wrote: »

On the second point, both sets of figures are completely unsubstantiated. Again, they are just your subjective view.

EvE Online figures (and WoW, even if indirectly) are publicly available for everyone to see.

dcincali

When Tera went FtP its population about tripled, yes there are alot of stupid players that should not have a computer, but I spent more in the cash shop then on the monthly sub by far... So if ZOS wants to make money and have a population, F2P is the way to go.

Dayel

I have five randomly chosen guilds, each has a high population and a large number of people popping in and out each day. I can not believe I accidentally selected the only five guilds in ESO that are flourishing.

joeyfromspace

The subscription model is one of diminishing returns. The subscriber base ALWAYS is shrinking unless there is a proactive effort by the publisher to bring in more subscribers via incentives. Usually lowering the barrier for entry by reducing the buy-in cost (or eliminating it altogether). Alternatively, bringing in major new content, or just aggressive advertising.

ZOS isn't doing any of these things, so if you expect the subscriber base to grow or sustain itself ex nihilo...I'm sorry, but that's not how math works.

I work in digital ecommerce marketing, and interviewed to help transition an existing sub game to f2p at a major publisher. What the product manager of the game in question told me was that they had intended for their game to go f2p all along, but had planned to use box sales and the first 6 months of subs to recoup dev costs and make the bigwigs happy, so they'd have more room to do cool stuff and push new content when they went f2p.

I'm sure ESO is no different. It would have been very hard for ZOS to get the game funded otherwise, since it's pretty clear sub games can't flourish in this day and age.