Garrison / Housing for ESO ? (why is ESO so far behind the rest with player housing)

Cogo

Thinking about it, I had a house in bards tale, 1984

Gix

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

No based on EQ2, Vanguard, Amalure, SWG, SWTOR, WoW, RIFT, Wildstar, Star Citizen, GW1, EVE Online (anybody see any I've missed please feel free to add them)

If you want to be accurate, might I suggest you remove GW1 from the list?

Because the Hall of Monument (if that's what you're referring to) is far, FAR from being player housing. It's a room with statues/trophies in it.

With that said, Final FantasyXIV:RR has guild housing at the moment. Individual guild members will be able to rent a room within that guild house sometime in the future.

You also forgot Ultima Online :P And I think Lineage II has something similar as well.

Mercurio

agreed. Housing is a very important thing to me. I want to try wildstar just for that, even though the rest of the game doesn't really appeal to me.

I stayed in EQ2 waaay too long because of housing. In fact, I returned to rift after years gone and paid for a sub (while it was F2P) because of the housing. I support games with the feature.

Mancuso

Yes, Ultima Online had it either at release, or very shortly afterwards.

Also, folks here are forgetting Dark Age of Camelot's (DAoC) fantastic implementation of housing. Full manipulation of interior and exterior within the confines of your property. You could buy crafting stations, merchants, you name it. It was amazing and ahead of its time... like much of DAoC.

ESO would do well to model their housing after DAoC's implementation, and I have a feeling they will.

Taz

bbowling1776b14_ESO wrote: »

Also, folks here are forgetting Dark Age of Camelot's (DAoC) fantastic implementation of housing. Full manipulation of interior and exterior within the confines of your property. You could buy crafting stations, merchants, you name it. It was amazing and ahead of its time... like much of DAoC.

ESO would do well to model their housing after DAoC's implementation, and I have a feeling they will.

That sounds awesome.

Since housing is inevitably going to be instanced, I hope they take the neighborhood approach and offer different instances in different locations with various plots of land, so you can physically see your neighbors, even have your friends buy the plot next to yours. A bit like LotRO, but with a lot more customization, of course.

I don't really want to see a 'you enter this instanced house along with everyone and their mother, but the inside is totally yours.'

Csub

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

I bet WoW was in development for quite a few years too. Yes, it will eventually come, yes people will say that it should had been there when the game released (Although same can be said about any past/future updates, people will still say it should had been included in the release version), it's just not their no. 1 priority and it is fine like that in my opinion.

Also, Zenimax doesn't have any experience with mmos. And I don't see how anything can be "too late", as you said, if housing will not be included in an update in the near future. What will be too late? Will everyone leave the game or they won't be able to include in a future patch or something else?

rudimentxb14_ESO

DCUO is only a few years old and has some of the best player housing I've seen since the days of Star Wars Galaxies. So it's do-able

Mr.Turtlesworth

OMFG!! give it TIME!!! This game has been out for 3 months. It's like telling a 3 month old baby that he should be talking and walking like the 10 year old kids!

SFBryan18

Glad I never played WoW. 20 seconds of that video looked awful.

tuckerpb2

Phantax wrote: »

Just watched a video for the upcoming World of Warcraft Garrison / Housing additions and have to say (despite it being WoW) it actually looked really interesting !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok7_F5_dRFI

The overall principal/mechanics of it I thought were great (think Skyrim housing... then take it a lot further) The fact they have managed to merge housing, daily missions, crafting and a host of other things into the whole thing is very clever.

We've been asking Zenimax for housing since beta and eventually we are going to get it (apparently.) BUT... looking at this just 'housing' is a little lame now. Looking at what RIFT did and more recently Wildstar and now WoW's Garrison expansion, Zenimax are going to have a hard time providing us with something this immersive and detailed. Even EVE Online has started down the path of player owned structures. If Zenimax don't do something sooner rather than later I feel they may be too late !

Back to the vid. OK, yes it's WoW, the graphics are cheap, the gameplay is questionable but obviously a lot of thought has gone into this garrison thing and it is going to add a whole new level of immersion into their game ! Zenimax / ESO need to do this, only better and with TES passion ! Just image all that but with ESO aesthetics !

Let the flaming, oops I mean discussion begin !.....

(Warning incoming barrage of childish, inflammatory, off topic comments)

you think that is cool check out wildstar housing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MyI75JzS0E

Phantax

tuckerpb2 wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Just watched a video for the upcoming World of Warcraft Garrison / Housing additions and have to say (despite it being WoW) it actually looked really interesting !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok7_F5_dRFI

The overall principal/mechanics of it I thought were great (think Skyrim housing... then take it a lot further) The fact they have managed to merge housing, daily missions, crafting and a host of other things into the whole thing is very clever.

We've been asking Zenimax for housing since beta and eventually we are going to get it (apparently.) BUT... looking at this just 'housing' is a little lame now. Looking at what RIFT did and more recently Wildstar and now WoW's Garrison expansion, Zenimax are going to have a hard time providing us with something this immersive and detailed. Even EVE Online has started down the path of player owned structures. If Zenimax don't do something sooner rather than later I feel they may be too late !

Back to the vid. OK, yes it's WoW, the graphics are cheap, the gameplay is questionable but obviously a lot of thought has gone into this garrison thing and it is going to add a whole new level of immersion into their game ! Zenimax / ESO need to do this, only better and with TES passion ! Just image all that but with ESO aesthetics !

Let the flaming, oops I mean discussion begin !.....

(Warning incoming barrage of childish, inflammatory, off topic comments)

you think that is cool check out wildstar housing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MyI75JzS0E

Already did a housing thread where I used Wildstar as a comparison, and agree conceptually it's very good (despite the graphics)
This thread is not so much about the housing but the fact that the 'garrison' concept also becomes a kind of personalised questing hub.

Mordria

Couldn't pay me to play WoW. Is this your subtle way of getting in advertizing for WoW on the Elder Scrolls forums?

Phantax

Mordria wrote: »

Couldn't pay me to play WoW. Is this your subtle way of getting in advertizing for WoW on the Elder Scrolls forums?

Yes I'm promoting WoW, that's why I made these comments on my OP...

Phantax wrote: »

Just watched a video for the upcoming World of Warcraft Garrison / Housing additions and have to say (despite it being WoW) it actually looked really interesting !

Back to the vid. OK, yes it's WoW, the graphics are cheap, the gameplay is questionable but obviously a lot of thought has gone into this garrison thing and it is going to add a whole new level of immersion into their game !

At least have the decency to properly read my OP before accusing me of something !

Mordria

Phantax wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

Couldn't pay me to play WoW. Is this your subtle way of getting in advertizing for WoW on the Elder Scrolls forums?

Yes I'm promoting WoW, that's why I made these comments on my OP...

Phantax wrote: »

Just watched a video for the upcoming World of Warcraft Garrison / Housing additions and have to say (despite it being WoW) it actually looked really interesting !

Back to the vid. OK, yes it's WoW, the graphics are cheap, the gameplay is questionable but obviously a lot of thought has gone into this garrison thing and it is going to add a whole new level of immersion into their game !

At least have the decency to properly read my OP before accusing me of something !

I know it wasn't intentional - but seriously that video was hard to look at. My eyes...

Phantax

Mordria wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

Couldn't pay me to play WoW. Is this your subtle way of getting in advertizing for WoW on the Elder Scrolls forums?

Yes I'm promoting WoW, that's why I made these comments on my OP...

Phantax wrote: »

Just watched a video for the upcoming World of Warcraft Garrison / Housing additions and have to say (despite it being WoW) it actually looked really interesting !

Back to the vid. OK, yes it's WoW, the graphics are cheap, the gameplay is questionable but obviously a lot of thought has gone into this garrison thing and it is going to add a whole new level of immersion into their game !

At least have the decency to properly read my OP before accusing me of something !

I know it wasn't intentional - but seriously that video was hard to look at. My eyes...

God yes, WoW is not the most visually appealing game, even after it was out 5 years it looked out-dated...lol But in as far as innovation is concerned Blizzard have had many good ideas (or at least improved on ones they copied from other MMos....lol)

Wolfshead

Phantax wrote: »

Just watched a video for the upcoming World of Warcraft Garrison / Housing additions and have to say (despite it being WoW) it actually looked really interesting !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok7_F5_dRFI

The overall principal/mechanics of it I thought were great (think Skyrim housing... then take it a lot further) The fact they have managed to merge housing, daily missions, crafting and a host of other things into the whole thing is very clever.

We've been asking Zenimax for housing since beta and eventually we are going to get it (apparently.) BUT... looking at this just 'housing' is a little lame now. Looking at what RIFT did and more recently Wildstar and now WoW's Garrison expansion, Zenimax are going to have a hard time providing us with something this immersive and detailed. Even EVE Online has started down the path of player owned structures. If Zenimax don't do something sooner rather than later I feel they may be too late !

Back to the vid. OK, yes it's WoW, the graphics are cheap, the gameplay is questionable but obviously a lot of thought has gone into this garrison thing and it is going to add a whole new level of immersion into their game ! Zenimax / ESO need to do this, only better and with TES passion ! Just image all that but with ESO aesthetics !

Let the flaming, oops I mean discussion begin !.....

(Warning incoming barrage of childish, inflammatory, off topic comments)

You do know that Blizzard and WoW is like 6 - 9 years behind everyone else as well it have take Blizzard this long to add Garrison / Housing to WoW so ESO is not so fair long after Blizzard and WoW

Fairydragon3

basically what I'm getting from this thread is that most think that this should have been implemented in the beginning.

This is a very time consuming feature and IMO to do it right would take sever additional years added to the development

In other words if they did add this, none of us would be playing for another few years unless they took out another big feature

The scope of that project is almost as big as cyrodil

Fissh

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

7 years actually. And it's a different development team. What MMO does it right though? The last MMO I played was FF14 and trust me I would rather not have that fiasco again. They didn't actually have player housing but brought guild houses out after about 3 months, but because of the botters, RMT, and Auction house completely ruining the economy it was so over priced even the largest guilds couldn't afford it until 3 months after its release. FF14 is a perfect example of why I'm glad they are taking their time with housing, and why I'm glad there is no Auction house. Most MMO's don't have housing at launch. Wildstar is the only one I know that had housing at launch and from what I have heard it was not very good.

This!!! People who expect such degrees from launch know nothing of development....at all. WoW: years and years to get to it. SWTOR: 2(3?) years to get to it. Wildstar: launch and and its crap. See the pattern? Want want want at launch alllll the thingsssss, this is how spoiled children act who don't understand what a 'process' is....

Phantax

Fairydragon3 wrote: »

basically what I'm getting from this thread is that most think that this should have been implemented in the beginning.

This is a very time consuming feature and IMO to do it right would take sever additional years added to the development

In other words if they did add this, none of us would be playing for another few years unless they took out another big feature

The scope of that project is almost as big as cyrodil

Well the OP was mine, and although I don't think something like this should have been in from the start, I think we do 'need' something like this AND sooner rather than much later.
The idea of an almost 'personalised' quest hub I find very interesting. RIFT touched on something like this with their personalised crafting quests. (random for each player and specific to your crafting choices)
I'm also a very big fan od modular type stuff in games, especially MMOs. The chance to build/develop something over time, especially if it adds some longevity and personalisation !

Audigy

Fissh wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

7 years actually. And it's a different development team. What MMO does it right though? The last MMO I played was FF14 and trust me I would rather not have that fiasco again. They didn't actually have player housing but brought guild houses out after about 3 months, but because of the botters, RMT, and Auction house completely ruining the economy it was so over priced even the largest guilds couldn't afford it until 3 months after its release. FF14 is a perfect example of why I'm glad they are taking their time with housing, and why I'm glad there is no Auction house. Most MMO's don't have housing at launch. Wildstar is the only one I know that had housing at launch and from what I have heard it was not very good.

This!!! People who expect such degrees from launch know nothing of development....at all. WoW: years and years to get to it. SWTOR: 2(3?) years to get to it. Wildstar: launch and and its crap. See the pattern? Want want want at launch alllll the thingsssss, this is how spoiled children act who don't understand what a 'process' is....

Excuse me?

Housing has been an essential feature at every MMO in the past. Yes WOW didn't have it and its clones also, but that doesn't mean that because of WOW´s "tradition" housing should no longer be a part of MMOs at release.

Phantax

Fissh wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

7 years actually. And it's a different development team. What MMO does it right though? The last MMO I played was FF14 and trust me I would rather not have that fiasco again. They didn't actually have player housing but brought guild houses out after about 3 months, but because of the botters, RMT, and Auction house completely ruining the economy it was so over priced even the largest guilds couldn't afford it until 3 months after its release. FF14 is a perfect example of why I'm glad they are taking their time with housing, and why I'm glad there is no Auction house. Most MMO's don't have housing at launch. Wildstar is the only one I know that had housing at launch and from what I have heard it was not very good.

This!!! People who expect such degrees from launch know nothing of development....at all. WoW: years and years to get to it. SWTOR: 2(3?) years to get to it. Wildstar: launch and and its crap. See the pattern? Want want want at launch alllll the thingsssss, this is how spoiled children act who don't understand what a 'process' is....

Yep ! and you may even have a point if it wasn't for the fact the housing has been an integral part of the TES franchise ! You buy/play an Elder Scrolls game and you expect there to be housing, ESO fell at that point !

xaraan

Seems odd to say ESO is behind everyone in housing then use an example of a game that's been out forever getting housing. That being said, I think housing in ESO would be cool to see eventually, but it's not the end-all, be-all for me. They could probably use another gold sink in the game and hopefully, aside from maybe storing things like trophies, it doesn't just become another place to hoard inventory (since inventory management is about where it should be, where you can keep everything you need but still need to make some choices about pack-ratting everything).

Fissh

Audigy wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

7 years actually. And it's a different development team. What MMO does it right though? The last MMO I played was FF14 and trust me I would rather not have that fiasco again. They didn't actually have player housing but brought guild houses out after about 3 months, but because of the botters, RMT, and Auction house completely ruining the economy it was so over priced even the largest guilds couldn't afford it until 3 months after its release. FF14 is a perfect example of why I'm glad they are taking their time with housing, and why I'm glad there is no Auction house. Most MMO's don't have housing at launch. Wildstar is the only one I know that had housing at launch and from what I have heard it was not very good.

This!!! People who expect such degrees from launch know nothing of development....at all. WoW: years and years to get to it. SWTOR: 2(3?) years to get to it. Wildstar: launch and and its crap. See the pattern? Want want want at launch alllll the thingsssss, this is how spoiled children act who don't understand what a 'process' is....

Excuse me?

Housing has been an essential feature at every MMO in the past. Yes WOW didn't have it and its clones also, but that doesn't mean that because of WOW´s "tradition" housing should no longer be a part of MMOs at release.

I did not say housing wasn't essential feature for MMO. Here is the thing, it took 5 years to get what we have now. How much time would you want to wait for release so that launch has a polished housing system? Because, me personally, would rather start playing the game and enjoying while they finish up cosmetic/luxuries kind of content in the back ground rather then have it part of the corporation rushed launch content. I suppose it is a matter of perception to most, but housing development prior to launch only makes for longer development which holds back game (and revenue for ZoS). To have such a strong opinion about having 'luxuries' in game at launch shows lack of development understandings.....
Wildstar is cookie cutter, wow clone, and generic cartoon animations. So there housing doesn't even have a place in the argument...I mean...do you want to go play in gardens for a day? If so...go play WS all you want..... I will have that virtue called patience that rewards me with better content.

Phantax

xaraan wrote: »

Seems odd to say ESO is behind everyone in housing then use an example of a game that's been out forever getting housing. That being said, I think housing in ESO would be cool to see eventually, but it's not the end-all, be-all for me. They could probably use another gold sink in the game and hopefully, aside from maybe storing things like trophies, it doesn't just become another place to hoard inventory (since inventory management is about where it should be, where you can keep everything you need but still need to make some choices about pack-ratting everything).

I used the WoW example because the Garrison thing I found very interesting and in some ways innovative. The other point to look at that even Blizzard with their 6+ million players and 10 year heritage now realise that player housing is becoming a vital and integral part of modern day MMOs and something the players are now coming to expect.
Blizzard are in a position where if they wanted they can pretty well do as they wish, ESO is still new and Zenimax don't have that luxury !

Audigy

Fissh wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

7 years actually. And it's a different development team. What MMO does it right though? The last MMO I played was FF14 and trust me I would rather not have that fiasco again. They didn't actually have player housing but brought guild houses out after about 3 months, but because of the botters, RMT, and Auction house completely ruining the economy it was so over priced even the largest guilds couldn't afford it until 3 months after its release. FF14 is a perfect example of why I'm glad they are taking their time with housing, and why I'm glad there is no Auction house. Most MMO's don't have housing at launch. Wildstar is the only one I know that had housing at launch and from what I have heard it was not very good.

This!!! People who expect such degrees from launch know nothing of development....at all. WoW: years and years to get to it. SWTOR: 2(3?) years to get to it. Wildstar: launch and and its crap. See the pattern? Want want want at launch alllll the thingsssss, this is how spoiled children act who don't understand what a 'process' is....

Excuse me?

Housing has been an essential feature at every MMO in the past. Yes WOW didn't have it and its clones also, but that doesn't mean that because of WOW´s "tradition" housing should no longer be a part of MMOs at release.

I did not say housing wasn't essential feature for MMO. Here is the thing, it took 5 years to get what we have now. How much time would you want to wait for release so that launch has a polished housing system? Because, me personally, would rather start playing the game and enjoying while they finish up cosmetic/luxuries kind of content in the back ground rather then have it part of the corporation rushed launch content. I suppose it is a matter of perception to most, but housing development prior to launch only makes for longer development which holds back game (and revenue for ZoS). To have such a strong opinion about having 'luxuries' in game at launch shows lack of development understandings.....
Wildstar is cookie cutter, wow clone, and generic cartoon animations. So there housing doesn't even have a place in the argument...I mean...do you want to go play in gardens for a day? If so...go play WS all you want..... I will have that virtue called patience that rewards me with better content.

You are right about one thing, its a matter of perception.

I would had loved it to kick out Craglorn and all these dungeons and trials currently in development for a good housing system. Sadly, since WOW many MMOs do focus on Dungeons and Raids and not the real MMO content from back in the days and unfortunately ESO does same.

Maybe raids and dungeons are easier to sell especially to younger audiences with a small attention span that don't understand the complexity behind a good housing system and other social features. Sad however is, that a lot of the older guys here are left alone by the lack of these features.

They could probably use another gold sink in the game and hopefully, aside from maybe storing things like trophies, it doesn't just become another place to hoard inventory (since inventory management is about where it should be, where you can keep everything you need but still need to make some choices about pack-ratting everything).

Housing is more than an inventory.

At a good housing system you will be able to craft & design armors, social equipment and decoration. You will also have your own shop where you can sell items without the need to spamming chat channels or joining unsocial trade guilds.

You can invite other players over for a meeting, you can place specific trophy´s in your house that show your progress in the game, you could even pvp with your house against neighbors.

Last but not least, housing offers the chance to build whole player cities, with specific laws and taxes and a selected representative who is responsible for building things in that city. Just imagine, you could build a dungeon in your city, a graveyard for deletes or dead Chars. a Hall of fame, plants for food...

Housing at Skyrim was very limited, SWG and Ultima did define housing.

Fissh

Audigy wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

7 years actually. And it's a different development team. What MMO does it right though? The last MMO I played was FF14 and trust me I would rather not have that fiasco again. They didn't actually have player housing but brought guild houses out after about 3 months, but because of the botters, RMT, and Auction house completely ruining the economy it was so over priced even the largest guilds couldn't afford it until 3 months after its release. FF14 is a perfect example of why I'm glad they are taking their time with housing, and why I'm glad there is no Auction house. Most MMO's don't have housing at launch. Wildstar is the only one I know that had housing at launch and from what I have heard it was not very good.

This!!! People who expect such degrees from launch know nothing of development....at all. WoW: years and years to get to it. SWTOR: 2(3?) years to get to it. Wildstar: launch and and its crap. See the pattern? Want want want at launch alllll the thingsssss, this is how spoiled children act who don't understand what a 'process' is....

Excuse me?

Housing has been an essential feature at every MMO in the past. Yes WOW didn't have it and its clones also, but that doesn't mean that because of WOW´s "tradition" housing should no longer be a part of MMOs at release.

I did not say housing wasn't essential feature for MMO. Here is the thing, it took 5 years to get what we have now. How much time would you want to wait for release so that launch has a polished housing system? Because, me personally, would rather start playing the game and enjoying while they finish up cosmetic/luxuries kind of content in the back ground rather then have it part of the corporation rushed launch content. I suppose it is a matter of perception to most, but housing development prior to launch only makes for longer development which holds back game (and revenue for ZoS). To have such a strong opinion about having 'luxuries' in game at launch shows lack of development understandings.....
Wildstar is cookie cutter, wow clone, and generic cartoon animations. So there housing doesn't even have a place in the argument...I mean...do you want to go play in gardens for a day? If so...go play WS all you want..... I will have that virtue called patience that rewards me with better content.

You are right about one thing, its a matter of perception.

I would had loved it to kick out Craglorn and all these dungeons and trials currently in development for a good housing system. Sadly, since WOW many MMOs do focus on Dungeons and Raids and not the real MMO content from back in the days and unfortunately ESO does same.

Maybe raids and dungeons are easier to sell especially to younger audiences with a small attention span that don't understand the complexity behind a good housing system and other social features. Sad however is, that a lot of the older guys here are left alone by the lack of these features.

They could probably use another gold sink in the game and hopefully, aside from maybe storing things like trophies, it doesn't just become another place to hoard inventory (since inventory management is about where it should be, where you can keep everything you need but still need to make some choices about pack-ratting everything).

Housing is more than an inventory.

At a good housing system you will be able to craft & design armors, social equipment and decoration. You will also have your own shop where you can sell items without the need to spamming chat channels or joining unsocial trade guilds.

You can invite other players over for a meeting, you can place specific trophy´s in your house that show your progress in the game, you could even pvp with your house against neighbors.

Last but not least, housing offers the chance to build whole player cities, with specific laws and taxes and a selected representative who is responsible for building things in that city. Just imagine, you could build a dungeon in your city, a graveyard for deletes or dead Chars. a Hall of fame, plants for food...

Housing at Skyrim was very limited, SWG and Ultima did define housing.

Raids(Trials) are essential to the end-game community and cannot wait or sub base will drop drastically. Housing can wait and those that drop sub because they have to wait on a luxury carry a certain amount of ignorance.... so yeah...perception.

Fissh

ps: to @Audigy I am an "old guy" too, I certainly dont play games these days to play around in a house, I play to be challenged...i.e. dungeons and raids. This young guy vs old guy argument you present is a bit silly...yeah?

Demira

I would like to see where the players can go visit at each others houses. My guild mates been threating that if it comes to pass that they was going to re-arrange my trophy's when they find my home! And they are hoping to take one to hold it hostage until i discover which one it was that was missing!

Think they want to tease their guild leader (Me)??
You betcha! LOL