Garrison / Housing for ESO ? (why is ESO so far behind the rest with player housing)

Phantax

Just watched a video for the upcoming World of Warcraft Garrison / Housing additions and have to say (despite it being WoW) it actually looked really interesting !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok7_F5_dRFI

The overall principal/mechanics of it I thought were great (think Skyrim housing... then take it a lot further) The fact they have managed to merge housing, daily missions, crafting and a host of other things into the whole thing is very clever.

We've been asking Zenimax for housing since beta and eventually we are going to get it (apparently.) BUT... looking at this just 'housing' is a little lame now. Looking at what RIFT did and more recently Wildstar and now WoW's Garrison expansion, Zenimax are going to have a hard time providing us with something this immersive and detailed. Even EVE Online has started down the path of player owned structures. If Zenimax don't do something sooner rather than later I feel they may be too late !

Back to the vid. OK, yes it's WoW, the graphics are cheap, the gameplay is questionable but obviously a lot of thought has gone into this garrison thing and it is going to add a whole new level of immersion into their game ! Zenimax / ESO need to do this, only better and with TES passion ! Just image all that but with ESO aesthetics !

Let the flaming, oops I mean discussion begin !.....

(Warning incoming barrage of childish, inflammatory, off topic comments)

ers101284b14_ESO

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Zarrae

I've been begging for housing (either personal or guild --- or better, both) since early Beta. I keep getting told how 'stupid' it is to 'waste resources' on this... but seriously, this could help with inventory management (house storage) and keep us 'housies' happy for hours - assuming it's done even semi-well.

The husband and I spent days decorating our respective houses in Vanguard and EQ2. I'd love to see every crafting skill involved in it...talk about stimulating the in-game market and crafting! Woodworkers and Blacksmiths for furniture, Clothiers and enchanters for decorations, provisioners for 'fake' food, drink, etc, and alchemists for glassware and the like.

The different racial (or at least 'regional') furnitures are already in the game for those with motifs.

It could work ^.^

Edit: I keep calling enchanters "artificers" ... I dunno why.

Phantax

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

Malpherian

Phantax wrote: »

Just watched a video for the upcoming World of Warcraft Garrison / Housing additions and have to say (despite it being WoW) it actually looked really interesting !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok7_F5_dRFI

The overall principal/mechanics of it I thought were great (think Skyrim housing... then take it a lot further) The fact they have managed to merge housing, daily missions, crafting and a host of other things into the whole thing is very clever.

We've been asking Zenimax for housing since beta and eventually we are going to get it (apparently.) BUT... looking at this just 'housing' is a little lame now. Looking at what RIFT did and more recently Wildstar and now WoW's Garrison expansion, Zenimax are going to have a hard time providing us with something this immersive and detailed. Even EVE Online has started down the path of player owned structures. If Zenimax don't do something sooner rather than later I feel they may be too late !

Back to the vid. OK, yes it's WoW, the graphics are cheap, the gameplay is questionable but obviously a lot of thought has gone into this garrison thing and it is going to add a whole new level of immersion into their game ! Zenimax / ESO need to do this, only better and with TES passion ! Just image all that but with ESO aesthetics !

Let the flaming, oops I mean discussion begin !.....

(Warning incoming barrage of childish, inflammatory, off topic comments)

You forgot SWTOR also, they are releasing Tattoine Homesteads (Same thing as wow garrisons) in the next release.

A game without Guild Housing, and personal housing, has no place in the future of MMORPG gaming. I am surprised that it wasn't initially included with ESO, since the last.... 3 TES games it's basically been a given.

Even Amalure, Kingdoms of Reckoning has player housing..... and that, though a decent game, is a skyrim knock off.

Tabbycat

WoW has had 4 expansions and are just now getting around to player housing. And it isn't even real housing. *sigh*

I certainly hope ESO doesn't follow in WoW's footsteps. I would actually like them to implement player housing sooner than that.

Phantax

Malpherian wrote: »

A game without Guild Housing, and personal housing, has no place in the future of MMORPG gaming. I am surprised that it wasn't initially included with ESO, since the last.... 3 TES games it's basically been a given.

Couldn't agree more +1

ers101284b14_ESO

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

7 years actually. And it's a different development team. What MMO does it right though? The last MMO I played was FF14 and trust me I would rather not have that fiasco again. They didn't actually have player housing but brought guild houses out after about 3 months, but because of the botters, RMT, and Auction house completely ruining the economy it was so over priced even the largest guilds couldn't afford it until 3 months after its release. FF14 is a perfect example of why I'm glad they are taking their time with housing, and why I'm glad there is no Auction house. Most MMO's don't have housing at launch. Wildstar is the only one I know that had housing at launch and from what I have heard it was not very good.

nerevarine1138

Phantax wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow has been out 10 years. With that being said it took them several years before they introduced player housing and garrisons. Zenimax has already talked about why they don't have housing at launch. They want to do it the right way and think they need to focus on it for long term development rather than just phoning it in just for the sake of doing it.

Although I see your point, Zenimax had ESO in development for 5 years, how much time do you need...lol
When you consider almost all the big existing MMO's and certainly all the new/up-and-coming MMOs have housing (or similar) its obviously something that todays MMO players like and enjoy. Player/guild housing (garrisons) are rapidly becoming part of the MMO genre, Surely a company of Zenimax's size and experience knew that?

Many MMOs have housing. Very few MMOs have good housing.

And yes, ESO has been in development for 5 years. WoW was in development for a long time before it was released, and they're still only getting around to housing now.

dennissomb16_ESO

I don't think I would classify ESO as being behind really. many games released without housing, and most of them took well over a year after release before adding housing. As pointed out WoW is coming up on 10 years without housing actually in the game yet. Sure a couple have started with housing such as wildstar, but a lot of the big names introduced housing well after release. 3 months in is not behind and 5 years in development is easily the same as most of the other big names

babylon

Hopefully we get a whole new crafting skill line with it, for furniture and decorations to go inside the home. Imagine Daedric or Barbaric furniture. Also Ancient Dwemer furniture, for when they add that motif into game. And of course add in trophies we can display dropped from dungeons and from fishing.

There's just so much they could do with this housing thing.

I'd like to see housing set up in instanced villages, with the ability to also run player shops in the same area so people can really have a lively village going on.

Obviously we'll need a bank guy in the villages, and also a general shop npc so we can sell and repair stuff there. Also there should be a lot of extra storage in our homes. And rather than "hooks" (like in LOTRO housing, where placement of items is very limited) I would like to see something more like RIFT's ability to place anything anywhere and be able to make things bigger and smaller, as well as rotate items in the three directions (ZOS you'd do well to check this system out - it works really nicely).

Also a real choice of housing types, from a little townhouse through to underground lairs, so people can set the tone for their particular character.

Phantax

Tabbycat wrote: »

WoW has had 4 expansions and are just now getting around to player housing. And it isn't even real housing. *sigh*

I certainly hope ESO doesn't follow in WoW's footsteps. I would actually like them to implement player housing sooner than that.

Agreed. Although to be slightly fair to Blizzard, player housing has only become such a big thing in the last few years. EQ2 and SWG I'd say really kick started the housing thing, now pretty much every MMO player expects it

phairdon

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

Malpherian

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't think I would classify ESO as being behind really. many games released without housing, and most of them took well over a year after release before adding housing. As pointed out WoW is coming up on 10 years without housing actually in the game yet. Sure a couple have started with housing such as wildstar, but a lot of the big names introduced housing well after release. 3 months in is not behind and 5 years in development is easily the same as most of the other big names

Honestly WoW, wasn't ever really the type of genre of game that needed Houseing.... Maybe it was just the way it plays, but I played WoW from beta to cata, and I never once desired personal houseing.

Maybe it's just that I never had enough stuff to desire it.. Who knows?

But a game like ESO player housing is Iconic, and so is "Guild Housing" as well. You don't think of a TES game, and not think about a personal home to put all your crap.... Same for a guild, if you have one, They are "Essential" for ESO, not only because of core game features, but simple because of storage issues and any other myriad of RP issues with both guilds and Players themselves.

Phantax

phairdon wrote: »

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

No based on EQ2, Vanguard, Amalure, SWG, SWTOR, WoW, RIFT, Wildstar, Star Citizen, GW1, EVE Online (anybody see any I've missed please feel free to add them)

Malpherian

Malpherian wrote: »

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't think I would classify ESO as being behind really. many games released without housing, and most of them took well over a year after release before adding housing. As pointed out WoW is coming up on 10 years without housing actually in the game yet. Sure a couple have started with housing such as wildstar, but a lot of the big names introduced housing well after release. 3 months in is not behind and 5 years in development is easily the same as most of the other big names

Honestly WoW, wasn't ever really the type of genre of game that needed Houseing.... Maybe it was just the way it plays, but I played WoW from beta to cata, and I never once desired personal houseing.

Maybe it's just that I never had enough stuff to desire it.. Who knows?

But a game like ESO player housing is Iconic, and so is "Guild Housing" as well. You don't think of a TES game, and not think about a personal home to put all your crap.... Same for a guild, if you have one, They are "Essential" for ESO, not only because of core game features, but simple because of storage issues and any other myriad of RP issues with both guilds and Players themselves.

phairdon

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

No based on EQ2, Vanguard, Amalure, SWG, SWTOR, WoW, RIFT, Wildstar, Star Citizen, GW1, EVE Online (anybody see any I've missed please feel free to add them)

Fair call!

Wonder why housing was not introduced into gw2 (which is my other mmo). Not that it concerns me.

pinstripesc

Ye, to be fair I have yet to play an MMO that had player housing, except AoC, which had a great guild city thing.

cracker81

Dang looks like a good set up but I am not going back. ESO plz be the MMO that we all know you are. You have all things in your previous games use what you got.

Malpherian

Easiest example would be, I have a vampire guild. It's an RP vampire guild. We don;t simply let anyone in, were secretive, and very selective in who we turn, as per actual Vampire RP.

Currently my RP guild consists of a Chat channel.......... (How am I supposed to even realistically gather a group together for rituals, initiations etc.... with just a chat channel, without a bunch of onlookers anyway,,,,

Guilds need housing so that I can drag my victim... Er... Initiate back to my Clans coven area, and do our thing to the unsuspecting Victim... Er.... Hopeful Initiate. Among other things...

But seriously.... I suppose the WW Rpers feel the same about their packs.

I mean really there is nothing to RP about or Immerse yourself with in this game and no functions to support it. And at end game whats their left to do but RP?

Phantax

phairdon wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

No based on EQ2, Vanguard, Amalure, SWG, SWTOR, WoW, RIFT, Wildstar, Star Citizen, GW1, EVE Online (anybody see any I've missed please feel free to add them)

Fair call!

Wonder why housing was not introduced into gw2 (which is my other mmo). Not that it concerns me.

They have said player housing and guild halls are coming, I may even re-vamp my old account when it does

goodexample

player owned structures are very important, and i`m sure zeni knows that. keeping in mind that bethesda released heartfire for skyrim. beth knew, zen will to. i have patience and will wait.. but not forever doh!.

Phantax

cracker81 wrote: »

Dang looks like a good set up but I am not going back. ESO plz be the MMO that we all know you are. You have all things in your previous games use what you got.

Agreed, don't think I could ever go back to WoW, 6 years, 3 running a mega guild was enough for me. Anyway, was single then, think the wife would kill me now If I put that many hours into my gaming...lol
And of course ESO looks fantastic visually

Cogo

Of course we gonna get housing. They said so, but wants to do it properly.
Where to put em? Cost? Build? etc...I dunno.
They didnt say a time, but 1 year away....or more isnt a bad guess.

I very much like a house to decorate, but I rather have MMO that works, without way to many parts in at once. :-)

Dark brotherdood!

CreepySpydre

Lotro was the first few games with personal and kin housing some 6 years ago, being that is 7 years old now, shows that it may take some time to place in the game. This WoW thing is a rip off from Age of Conan's guild cities, and Battle keeps.

phairdon

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

No based on EQ2, Vanguard, Amalure, SWG, SWTOR, WoW, RIFT, Wildstar, Star Citizen, GW1, EVE Online (anybody see any I've missed please feel free to add them)

Fair call!

Wonder why housing was not introduced into gw2 (which is my other mmo). Not that it concerns me.

They have said player housing and guild halls are coming, I may even re-vamp my old account when it does

Had heard player housing was going to be introduced in maybe a year or two. Either way its not a concern for me.

Phantax

CreepySpydre wrote: »

Lotro was the first few games with personal and kin housing some 6 years ago, being that is 7 years old now, shows that it may take some time to place in the game. This WoW thing is a rip off from Age of Conan's guild cities, and Battle keeps.

Yeah but most things in any MMO are partly a rip-off from some other MMO. And IMO if a company can do it well, maybe even add a touch of something new, then why not. If it keeps the players happy that's all that matters

Phantax

phairdon wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

No based on EQ2, Vanguard, Amalure, SWG, SWTOR, WoW, RIFT, Wildstar, Star Citizen, GW1, EVE Online (anybody see any I've missed please feel free to add them)

Fair call!

Wonder why housing was not introduced into gw2 (which is my other mmo). Not that it concerns me.

They have said player housing and guild halls are coming, I may even re-vamp my old account when it does

Had heard player housing was going to be introduced in maybe a year or two. Either way its not a concern for me.

In a year or two Zenimax won't just of missed the boat, it will have capsized and sunk...lol

phairdon

Phantax wrote: »

CreepySpydre wrote: »

Lotro was the first few games with personal and kin housing some 6 years ago, being that is 7 years old now, shows that it may take some time to place in the game. This WoW thing is a rip off from Age of Conan's guild cities, and Battle keeps.

Yeah but most things in any MMO are partly a rip-off from some other MMO. And IMO if a company can do it well, maybe even add a touch of something new, then why not. If it keeps the players happy that's all that matters

Agreed.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

No based on EQ2, Vanguard, Amalure, SWG, SWTOR, WoW, RIFT, Wildstar, Star Citizen, GW1, EVE Online (anybody see any I've missed please feel free to add them)

And apart from the current FoTM among attention-span challenged gamers, none of those launched with housing as far as I know.

As for your omissions: FFXI, which now has housing AND a garden. also LoTRO which had it at launch I *think* or maybe an early content update.

On the other hand, GW2 hasn't got it and doesn't seem to be any the worse for that.

Phantax

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Far behind the rest based on one game? My only other mmo does not have player or garrison housing.

No based on EQ2, Vanguard, Amalure, SWG, SWTOR, WoW, RIFT, Wildstar, Star Citizen, GW1, EVE Online (anybody see any I've missed please feel free to add them)

And apart from the current FoTM among attention-span challenged gamers, none of those launched with housing as far as I know.

As for your omissions: FFXI, which now has housing AND a garden. also LoTRO which had it at launch I *think* or maybe an early content update.

On the other hand, GW2 hasn't got it and doesn't seem to be any the worse for that.

Wildstar did, Star Citizen will and GW2 is getting



Oh and SWTOR did, although it was only your ship and kinda naff...lol