Theme-Park Vs. Sand-Box

Korprok

MMORPGs, ever evolving- both the individual games and the industry in itself.

hypothetically.. you could “nudge” The Elder Scrolls Online in one way or the other, which direction would you advocate? - happy polling and “gods be praised!”

Nox_Aeterna

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

This game is already a theme park MMO , is too late to want it to be a sand box. With that said , they could eventually put some effort to have certain things working like we would expect a sand box , that would be nice.

AinGeal

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

This game is already a theme park MMO , is too late to want it to be a sand box. With that said , they could eventually put some effort to have certain things working like we would expect a sand box , that would be nice.

I saw this poll as more of a 'which do you prefer' instead of a 'in what direction would you like ESO to go'. With that being said, I agree that it's too late for ESO to be a full blown sand box.

Liquid_Time

As long as there is no cats around I want a sand box.

WhitePawPrints

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

I will risk a vast amount of trolling by just saying that I am risking it, and to ask for the OP to clarify the differences between "Theme-Park" MMO and "Sandbox" MMO. I have heard the terms used before, and know enough to place a vote, but I still feel as if I should be educated more on these MMO-specific terms.

AinGeal

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

Liquid_Time wrote: »

As long as there is no cats around I want a sand box.

May your feet find warm sands

Korprok

Sand-Park (Sand-Box foundation + Theme-Park features/mechanics/systems)

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I will risk a vast amount of trolling by just saying that I am risking it, and to ask for the OP to clarify the differences between "Theme-Park" MMO and "Sandbox" MMO. I have heard the terms used before, and know enough to place a vote, but I still feel as if I should be educated more on these MMO-specific terms.

there are numerous sources, I actually recommend to google it up, read articles from developers, studios, gaming-sites, reviewers etc. and of/c by players- loads of information on the subject

Dusty5

Sorry could not vote as there was no choice for the current state of the game. LITTERBOX.

drogon1

Sand-Park (Sand-Box foundation + Theme-Park features/mechanics/systems)

Will be interesting to see how the sub numbers hash out in a year. Archeage is apparently a bona fide "sandpark." Whereas ESO and Wildstar are themeparks (I might further narrow ESO into a special sub-category of "Questpark"). Interesting where the buld of the MMO crowd eventually lands.

Vis

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

I have never grown bored of the dynamic situations in Eve online, burned out but never bored.

Audigy

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

ESO is a theme park driven MMO with tiny Sandbox elements, so is Archeage and you can even count a few WS elements into that category.

WOW, SWTOR, GW are theme parks while Ultima, Albion, EVE and SWG are full Sandbox.

Personally I wouldn't mind more Sandbox elements at ESO, the crime system for instance could be one of those, so could the housing system and a further development of the crafting system.

Korprok

Sand-Park (Sand-Box foundation + Theme-Park features/mechanics/systems)

Audigy wrote: »

*snip* housing system and a further development of the crafting system.

I agree and think that is essential, core feature and mechanic of any game that aims to "sandbox" it.

Tabbycat

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

As fond as this one is of sandboxes (when they are changed regularly) she cannot help but notice that the only successful MMO that can be called a sandbox is EVE. And that is just a niche game.

This one remembers The Sims Online, do you? It was not that popular.

ItsMeToo

Theme-Park (purist theme-park)

More quests... more quests... and make it so that we can solo every part of this game with the same character. If I want to group up, I will, but don't force it on me.

Catman14

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

The best truly sandbox game was Ultima Online. No quests, player led economy, players banding together for protection. Minimum developer input.
And it worked.
But we didn't have ADD, x boxes, mobile phones and all the other distractions that interfere with today's gamer.

I really miss that model. I'm not sure Archeage is going to be a truly sandbox game either. You can't build your house just anywhere, they will open up new housing areas as the population grows for example. And there will still be quests to do.

Madval

Theme-Park (purist theme-park)

I love game with a road "directed" like The witcher or Dragon age and hate sand box like GTA and the like. But I love game like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim... In which categories you'll put thoses games ?

Tannakaobi

Sand-Park (Sand-Box foundation + Theme-Park features/mechanics/systems)

drogon1 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how the sub numbers hash out in a year. Archeage is apparently a bona fide "sandpark." Whereas ESO and Wildstar are themeparks (I might further narrow ESO into a special sub-category of "Questpark"). Interesting where the buld of the MMO crowd eventually lands.

I think the post promising is EverQuest Next, largely due to the Landmark project. But after being so disappointed in ESO I'm not holding my breath. I think I may take time out from MMO's. Maybe they will catch up with other forms of games in time.

Personally I would like a game bang in the middle. I like deep meaningful crafting systems, I like the idea of no levels. I like building and even making my own quests. I like mechanics that make the world feel real, like boats that actually move rather than magic portal loading screens, as well as other forms of travel. I like growing my own plants, all sandbox elements.

But I also like a decent story with well made dungeons and maps.

One of eso biggest downfalls for me is the connect the dots map/quest system a stark contrast to TES games. If you deviate from the path set out for you then it all goes wrong and you will miss things. This is why VR content is so dull, it's a continuation of the connect the dots.

For a TES MMO to be even more linear than the other competitive mmo's is laughable. Using the word 'linear' to describe eso is like using the word damp to describe something that has been deep in an ocean for twenty thousand years. Unbelievable design for a TES game, I'm genuinely shocked.

The only thing that makes ESO good is the combat system. Even that is questionable due to the everyone for all PVP zones. Putting level 10's with VR12's is one of the worst designs in MMO history.

madangrypally

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

Keep level 1-50 like it currently is, but drastically change how Vet Content is. Make all Vet Content sandbox content.

Istyar

Theme-Park (purist theme-park)

Liquid_Time wrote: »

As long as there is no cats around I want a sand box.

What about Khajiit?

AlexDougherty

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I will risk a vast amount of trolling by just saying that I am risking it, and to ask for the OP to clarify the differences between "Theme-Park" MMO and "Sandbox" MMO. I have heard the terms used before, and know enough to place a vote, but I still feel as if I should be educated more on these MMO-specific terms.

Themepark MMOs are linear, missions are never randomly generated, and the story will always be the same, this means that you can look up help for any mission easily. Problem is one play through for each story is enough, it will never change. Thus this game has three stories, and swtor has eight stories (one per class).

Sandbox MMOs tend to lack restrictions, missions might be randomly generated, stories take a back seat, and players tend to explore more.

Both types have advantages and disadvantages, basically if the story is a major attraction for you, then it will probably be a themepark MMO, if you aren't interested in the story, then go for a Sandbox MMO.

seaef

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

Some sandbox features are great, but never a true sandbox. In fact, I don't think there are any true sandbox MMOs. Eve has a lot of sandbox elements and is probably the closest example, but still not a true sandbox game. I really don't think it could even work with MMOs.

The only multiplayer game I can think of that is a full-on sandbox is Rust. You start naked with a rock, take 5 steps and die. You start again naked with a rock, take 10 steps and die. Start again naked with a rock and maybe get to the point of building a shack and you die. Your killers then destroy your shack. No NPCs. No goals. No quests. Just people running around killing each other and destroying their stuff.

People here have a meltdown because they can't change their hair or unfeed their horses. Holy crap. It would be a disaster.

DanteYoda

Sand-Park (Sand-Box foundation + Theme-Park features/mechanics/systems)

I need some themepark Sand box just bores me after a while, i tend to just get lost and get bored..

KhajitFurTrader

Theme-Park (purist theme-park)

Istyar wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

As long as there is no cats around I want a sand box.

What about Khajiit?

Yes, what about these ones? These ones prefer rather large sandboxes, what with these ones living in a desert and all. But not as their playgrounds, no. Tending to dig up too much excrements while playing.

Laura

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

purist sandbox mmos suck. There are plenty of them out there, try them out for yourselves.

I agree ESO needs a lot more sandbox to it but pure sandbox games are just a mess.

Sakiri

Catman14 wrote: »

The best truly sandbox game was Ultima Online. No quests, player led economy, players banding together for protection. Minimum developer input.
And it worked.
But we didn't have ADD, x boxes, mobile phones and all the other distractions that interfere with today's gamer.

I really miss that model. I'm not sure Archeage is going to be a truly sandbox game either. You can't build your house just anywhere, they will open up new housing areas as the population grows for example. And there will still be quests to do.

I dont.

I dont like my game time running at the whim of others wanting to do what I want to do.

I dont like having to spend a large part of my time online trying to sell things to other players.

I dont like having to rely on others for my crafting.

Once EQ2 and WoW released, I was finally free pf the real life simulator that sandbox games are. Sure I could do stuff with people, but no longer was I forced to play a certain class if I wanted to do things in a reasonable amount of time when friends/guildies werent on.

No longer did I have to sit on my thumbs lfg while praying for a group.

Im convinced that most folks that want that back have rose colored glasses on.

Ill never play another sandbox again.

Sakiri

And finding out EQN is going sandbox pretty much says "Saki is not playing this" because "sandbox" means "no solo, must ble glued to others' hips, and thus no fun".

AlexDougherty

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

Sakiri wrote: »

Im convinced that most folks that want that back have rose colored glasses on.

Common problem, and not just for MMOs, people tend to forget the bad side of things they used to do, like the saying that "school days were the best days of my life".

Best days my backside, I hated school, homework took up my entire night, since British teachers assigned a hours worth of homework, and every teacher would assign homework. Six hours later I still had more homework to do, and it was bedtime. I am now forty and still shudder at the memories of homework and school.

Anyway, the past was rarely as good as we remember, I've replayed old games, and while some are still fun (super mario games for example) most are tedious and I forgot how repetitive the mechanisms were.

Sakiri

You reminded me of how bad my school days were. Different reasons of course. I remember them being boring and beneath me because I already knew most of what they were teaching. I had a ravenous appetite for raw knowledge and would spend hours reading encyclopedias. My textbooks were read cover to cover the days after the year started and the wotk was so easy it was boring.

Boring enoigh for me to start causing mischief. ><

Catman14

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

Well of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. :-)

But I strongly believe their is a market (a small one but a market nonetheless) for a good sandbox game. You are right about the rose tinted specs but if modern MMOs are so bang on explain why you aren't all still playing WoW.
I'm not playing UO because it's graphically in the stone age and so easy to hack and cheat but it's still going.

Modern MMOs try to be all thing to all players and fail to deliver to anyone. ESO is a solo game where you see other players from time to time. It's not even an rpg because there's no consequences to your in game actions. But the world is nicely drawn and well designed.

ForTheRealm

Sand-Park (Sand-Box foundation + Theme-Park features/mechanics/systems)

...because I love Elder Scrolls lore, but I would like to be able to change the world more permanently by the actions I and other players take, e.g. destroy a city, burn the forest, build a keep in the place I want etc. etc.

zgrssd

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

The first time I heard those terms was in this Youtube Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-aHuXLa3uI
I can agree with those two seperations.

That this game is a theme park basis has been set in stone. It is a design choice and not something you can just flip around.
That does not mean they cannot add Sandbox elements too it. Specifically: a player mission editor.

City of Heroes, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter Online all had/have one thing in common:
Players can (within limits) create content. Missions, instances. They can define goals, mobs and similar stuff of the quest. Other players can play throgh those quests.
This effectively implements Web 2.0 features into the world of MMO. In addition to the developer content (Craglorn and what is currently on PTS) there is player created content. There are some really nice written, multi-part stories on STO and NWO.
They also have an incentive to play those (Dilithium/Astral Diamodn rewards). And as such there is also a sub-class of "minimal duration" missions for those that just want to grind thier resources.

And the whole concept kinda belongs into the Elder Scrolls games since Morrowind, as do Nord, Dunmer, Deadra and Mundus Stones.
Due to the competitive nature of MMO with PvP those editors cannot be quite as free as in the single player games (think more along the lines of Addons instead of mods). For example full controll over the loot cannot be given to the writer.
Plus without Synchronsiation the converastions would be a bit lacking (a decent speech synthesizer might help here).
But even with those limits it is a worthy longterm goal.