Theme-Park Vs. Sand-Box

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Laura wrote: »

purist sandbox mmos suck. There are plenty of them out there, try them out for yourselves.

Few survive, for a reason.

AlexDougherty

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

Catman14 wrote: »

Well of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. :-)

But I strongly believe their is a market (a small one but a market nonetheless) for a good sandbox game. You are right about the rose tinted specs but if modern MMOs are so bang on explain why you aren't all still playing WoW.

Yes, there is a marlet for sand-box MMOs, mind you there is a market for just about anything, including third rate rip-offs of goat simulator.

And I must say I have never played WoW, ever. My first and only other MMO was Swtor, and I stopped playing that because the class stories ended. I played all eight, didn't really like trooper, loved the others, and if the stories had continued onto Makeb and beyond, I would still be playing.

Catman14

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

So you stopped playing swtor because your class stories ended. That meant the game was effectively dead to you once you had completed content so you found another game to play.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that but it could be argued that any game that relies on developer content to keep the player base playing isn't really a MMO in the traditional sense of the word. These games are now just single player games with the option of playing with friends. And that's not a bad thing.

I'm all for people playing whatever they want and the developers can't be wrong by producing these clones otherwise they would go bust and their games go free to play.

Wouldn't they?

Be interesting to see how successful a true sandbox game with quality graphics and environments might fare though.

Enjoy playing ESO, I know I am.

stumpy999

Sand-Park (Sand-Box foundation + Theme-Park features/mechanics/systems)

mmm, what do you mean by the terms?

I ask as my mmo experience is limited to EVE online and everybody can shoot everybody else there etc.

So what do you mean by sandbox? I run quests with other, ranom dudes, wandering about my manor etc. I do dungeons and see waves of folk wandering about etc.

To address the base question, I need to understand what you guys think a sandbox is, etc?

SFBryan18

You know, it would be helpful if the OP gave a full definition of both to help us understand the difference. Didn't vote.

AlexDougherty

Theme-Box (Theme-Park foundation + Sand-Box features/mechanics/systems)

According to Wikipedia (not the best source I know) a Sandbox MMO is one that places few or no limits on players, allowing them to go anywhere and theoretically attempt anything.

A themepark MMO is one where your adventure is linear, you do missions is an approximate order, and have to reach certain levels/stages in main quest before you can go to the next stage.

Catman14

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

I think a sandbox is a game where the world has been created for you, populated by monsters or whatever and you get plonked into it.

Using whatever you can find, steal or craft you set about surviving and then flourishing in the world. Making guilds/clubs/friends makes life easier but there should be room for scouts, hermits and anti social people to do their thing too.

The economy is driven by players making stuff for people who want stuff. And there really ought to be a big element of risk. Thieving, banditry and corpse looting should be allowed. Perhaps the latter could be a special rule set you use on a particular server so that people who really must have those purple pixels don't lose them. Housing would be a must and preferably not instanced.

A sandbox shouldn't have quests, at least developer led ones. Player quests were in Star Wars Galaxies and they worked pretty well. I can see sense in players asking others to kill the trash around their guild house for example.

I suppose my view of a sandbox is that there are no limitations on how you play, your imagination is the limit.

steveb16_ESO46

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

drogon1 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how the sub numbers hash out in a year. Archeage is apparently a bona fide "sandpark." Whereas ESO and Wildstar are themeparks (I might further narrow ESO into a special sub-category of "Questpark"). Interesting where the buld of the MMO crowd eventually lands.

Yes. For better or worse ESO is a very focused quest driven, combat-heavy game (and nothing wrong with that). It's not really much of a theme park unless you start stretching dictionary entries.

ArcheAge is pretty sand-box and I'm a big fan. But it doesn't come close to competing with ESO on ESO's turf. You want a good plot-driven adventure with plenty of combat then it's ESO all the way.

You want to build a boat and then join up with your Guild fleet to make risky but profitable trade runs then it's ArcheAge. But building a fleet will take a ton of time and effort.

steveb16_ESO46

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

zgrssd wrote: »

City of Heroes, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter Online all had/have one thing in common:
Players can (within limits) create content. Missions, instances. They can define goals, mobs and similar stuff of the quest. Other players can play throgh those quests.
This effectively implements Web 2.0 features into the world of MMO. In addition to the developer content (Craglorn and what is currently on PTS) there is player created content. There are some really nice written, multi-part stories on STO and NWO.

Agreed. There's some great Foundry content in STO. Much better than the main plots. Fantastic feature that I'd love to see in ESO.

Sakiri

Catman14 wrote: »

Well of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. :-)

But I strongly believe their is a market (a small one but a market nonetheless) for a good sandbox game. You are right about the rose tinted specs but if modern MMOs are so bang on explain why you aren't all still playing WoW.
I'm not playing UO because it's graphically in the stone age and so easy to hack and cheat but it's still going.

Modern MMOs try to be all thing to all players and fail to deliver to anyone. ESO is a solo game where you see other players from time to time. It's not even an rpg because there's no consequences to your in game actions. But the world is nicely drawn and well designed.

Why Im not playing WoW? Lets see here...

10 years playing it.
Burnout.

Nothing more.

Got anything else?

Sakiri

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

...because I love Elder Scrolls lore, but I would like to be able to change the world more permanently by the actions I and other players take, e.g. destroy a city, burn the forest, build a keep in the place I want etc. etc.

Im incredibly leery about allowing permanent alteration of the game world.

Building something up just to have some jackass burn it to the ground? No thanks.

Missing quests in a town because the guild first to level cap destroyed hubs to slow down the competition? No thanks.

Other people are what make me hate people. Jerks like that are why I hate mmo communities, and people wonder why I dont deal with randoms.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I'll take whichever one doesn't have me either sitting in one spot or running in a circle killing monsters over and over and over and over and over for days on end for 1 level.

Catman14

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

I having nothing more for you Sakiri. I feel the vibes.

badmojo

Theme-Park (purist theme-park)

Improve the existing theme park, no need to destroy the game because some people think a sandbox would be more fun to play in. Go find a sandbox that was built from the ground up.

Sakiri

Catman14 wrote: »

I having nothing more for you Sakiri. I feel the vibes.

One can only do the same thing so long.

InvictoNZ

Sand-Park (Sand-Box foundation + Theme-Park features/mechanics/systems)

I want Eve Online in ESO.

That is, when you die, someone else can loot ALL your items. You have to go buy new gear from the guild store (or from bank / guild bank) and run back into battle.

Sounds painful... but it forces you to create a real economy and resupply.

Everything you do becomes meaningful when there are consequences for every action.

AinGeal

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

InvictoNZ wrote: »

I want Eve Online in ESO.

That is, when you die, someone else can loot ALL your items. You have to go buy new gear from the guild store (or from bank / guild bank) and run back into battle.

Sounds painful... but it forces you to create a real economy and resupply.

Everything you do becomes meaningful when there are consequences for every action.

No, no, it's more like 75% of your stuff is permanently destroyed and 25% is lootable

Sakiri

AinGeal wrote: »

InvictoNZ wrote: »

I want Eve Online in ESO.

That is, when you die, someone else can loot ALL your items. You have to go buy new gear from the guild store (or from bank / guild bank) and run back into battle.

Sounds painful... but it forces you to create a real economy and resupply.

Everything you do becomes meaningful when there are consequences for every action.

No, no, it's more like 75% of your stuff is permanently destroyed and 25% is lootable

Neither sound like fun to me.

Mordria

Sand-Box (purist sand-box)

It's very much theme park atm. I would like to see it as a sand box once you hit max level and just accumulate more skills/weapons/trades