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Armor Passives and Imbalance
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Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I think people are missing the point of the armors themselves. The armors are only supposed to give slight bonuses. The thing about the game is player skill means more than what your wearing.
IF your a skilled player you SHOULD be able to tank fine in Light Armor considering you geared yourself to at least reach the soft cap.
CAN Heavy armor do it better YES, but Heavy armor SHOULDNT be the only means of tanking.
Spell Casters CAN wear Heavy Armor as it will increase their survivability but it will also at the same time decrease their casting efficiency.
This all lends well to the theme of the game with is Play the Way You Want.
There is NOTHING wrong with armor in the game. Its the balance between Magicka and Stamina that's the real issue.
But again with Magicka/Stamina there is a bigger picture we are still missing. LOT of people are on the forums claiming they are able to play their Melee classes quite well even in Veteran Rank.
I replied to your post in the DPS thread earlier, you didn't reply back.
Face it, Medium and Heavy Armor is weaker than Light Armor.
There is a reason why majority of trial DPSers are using light armor and not medium and heavy armor. This is not only because magicka builds are stronger than stamina builds, light armor provides so much more for a damage dealer than medium and heavy are doing at the moment.
Its easy to see why people are using Light Armor over the other 2. Light Armor improves Magicka.
IF Stamina builds were equal to to Magicka then looking at the armor WHAT is exactly wrong with them.0 -
bugulu✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »
The fact that Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break uses Stamina actually makes a LOT of sense due to the fact that Melees ARE in range to use Block and Stun. Dodge and CC Break just adds to the already increased survivability of the 2.
This lends well to Magicka builds as they really DONT need increases in that same survivability since they get their comparable survivability from their Magicka. Magicka gets ranged knockbacks and knockdowns along with self heals.
Now this isn't to say that Stamina and Magicka DOESNT get to use the other resource as well its just they really don't rely on it AS much.
Now with that said to me it LOOKS like Stamina get the better of the deal as MANY Magicka abilities are useful TO Stamina regardless of points in Stamina.
So looking at that is it really fair to expect Stamina to preform the same as Magicka as they have already different standing pros and cons?
If stamina build users need to watch out for their stamina bar just to survive (whilst a magicka user does not need to watch their magicka bar to survive), shouldn't stamina users then do more damage than magicka users when it comes to static fights where no survivalbility measuers are necessary?
Why should stamina build users suffer from the added danger of standing close to a boss, looking at their resource meter and save a percentage of it just to survive while a magicka users doesn't need to do it? And if they do need to remove themselves from danger, they have a whole shiny stamina bar that they are not using to get out of that said danger.
Light Armor passives are too good compared to Medium and Heavy Armor passives.1 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »
Right here i can tell that either you dont do VR dungeons or you simply have only DPS'd. the simple fact after doing all the content in TESO is there is literally one role as a tank as a healer and as a dps. It is DPS that heals , DPS that CC's and AOE DPS that has a taunt and Sword and shield. All the roles are DPS. Teso is not this flexible wonderland. its actually the opposite in trying to break the mold they broke the game. the truth is nothing was wrong with the trinity and having defined rolls . the only thing that was wrong with it was it was hard to level the defined rolls solo andvery hard to balance for PVP. was very evident in games like EQ 2.since 2004 we have seeing a down hill slide of watering down of mechanics and collapsing of the roles. The Trinity needed to be expanded upon and true CC and support roles left in .Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I think people are missing the point of the armors themselves. The armors are only supposed to give slight bonuses. The thing about the game is player skill means more than what your wearing.
IF your a skilled player you SHOULD be able to tank fine in Light Armor considering you geared yourself to at least reach the soft cap.
CAN Heavy armor do it better YES, but Heavy armor SHOULDNT be the only means of tanking.
Spell Casters CAN wear Heavy Armor as it will increase their survivability but it will also at the same time decrease their casting efficiency.
This all lends well to the theme of the game with is Play the Way You Want.
There is NOTHING wrong with armor in the game. Its the balance between Magicka and Stamina that's the real issue.
But again with Magicka/Stamina there is a bigger picture we are still missing. LOT of people are on the forums claiming they are able to play their Melee classes quite well even in Veteran Rank.
LOL...wait, you are you serious...O.o
The role you play should absolutely be determined by the gear you use.
All out tank? Heavy armor with sword and board.
Tanky with a little more dps? Heavy armor with two hander or duel wield.
All out melee DPS? Medium armor and 2 hander or duel wield.
All out healer? Light armor and resto staff.
etc.
It's the class skills that should give slight bonuses. A person's class should be about the gear combination they choose to go with. The class you pick at the start is just a launching point. Or it was suppose to be according the devs whenever they talked about the game while it was still in development.
Instead there is a massive imbalance where light armor and staffs are king and the class you choose and the active/passive skills it brings you makes a major impact from lvl 1 all the way to V12.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for player skill > game numbers but player/character role within a group should be based on the gear chosen > class chosen.
This is VERY serious other games are starting to adopt this type of thinking. Just because your wearing cloth doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to tank.
Yeah, it kinda does.
Before, when it came to the trinity, you chose one or the other. So you either picked the tank class, the dps class, or the healer class.
The trend is that MMOs are moving away from the all out one or the other and offering a blend. Think of character creation in this game. Think of that face triangle type slider. You can go all out soft, angled, or heroic. Or you can move that slider anywhere in between the three within the triangle. So instead of it being soft, angled, and heroic, it's tank, healer, dps and you move the slider anywhere you want. To accomplish this moving of the metaphorical slider, you pick the gear/class combination you want.
When it comes to soloable content, it shouldn't matter. You should be able to solo it. It's a trade off with the same ultimate result. Killing the enemy before they kill you.
So if you go all out tank, you don't deal much damage but you mitigate a lot of damage. The end result is that you kill the mobs before they kill you.
If you go all out dps, you deal lots of damage but you don't mitigate much damage. However, again, you kill the enemy before they kill you.
If you go healer, you are mitigating but in a different way than a tank. Rather than soaking the damage, you are healing back a portion of the damage. So similar to the tank, you mitigate lots of damage but put out a little. Again, you kill the enemy before they kill you.
This is for solo content. For group content it's different. You should need all three. The tank, although able to soak damage, doesn't do much damage. An enemy designed for a group will be able to kill a tank before the tank can kill it. So you need the combined work of a tank to soak the damage and a healer to heal the damage that gets through in order for the tank to survive. However, enemies designed for a group are strong in the dps and damage mitigation department. So this is where the dps comes in. To kill the enemy in a timely fashion or at all (if the enemy's mitigation is through self healing) you need the dps.This is how ZOS is achieving their "play as you want", by using few restrictions.
The only real issue with armor is peoples perception of them and the fact there is a current Magicka/Stamina issue.
Light Armor is not that amazing, Magicka builds are and Light Armor just makes them better.
Using the proper gear to fill the proper role has nothing to do with "play how you want". Sorry but no a pure healer should not be able to tank or dps. A tank should not be able to fill the roll of a pure healer or dps, etc., etc.
ZoS philosophy on 'play how you want' is the following...One of the core philosophies of The Elder Scrolls Online is to allow you to play the way you want. You’ve probably heard us say it or experienced it for yourself: equip any weapon, wear any armor, choose from a myriad of skills, pick your role, make choices in quests, ignore certain quests and just explore, etc. The idea is that these choices tie you more to your character, and respect that you might want to play differently from one day to the next. Many times, I’ve heard people discuss how they like to solo, others like to “raid,” and another group likes to PvP, so we know gamers never fit into neat categories.
However, many people who have become attached to their character want to see how their character would perform in a variety of situations or game modes. This is part of the reason we don’t have PvP gear and PvE gear, and also the reason we embrace being able to pick and max out more than a handful of skills. We’ve tried to avoid the danger of compartmentalizing and labeling certain players by acknowledging that circumstances change for people day-to-day. On Monday you might feel like playing alone, and Tuesday you might feel like working with friends on a dungeon. Whatever your motivation, you should be able to go do the thing you want without a lot of barriers.
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/03/26/esos-veteran-content?ref=rss
The bold part is the part most relevant here. The question is "how do you choose your role?" and the answer is simple. You pick the right weapon, armor and skills. Note the underlined part of the quote above. The game allows you to mix and match any combination. This is what makes the choice between the trinity not so cut and dry but rather very much like that triangular facial slider in character creation. This does not mean you can pick the gear/skill combination to make yourself a pure dps and then group up with others and act as the tank in a group dungeon.
This is sort of the problem with a "slider" system in group content. People are too used to the predefined roles and even this game puts people into predefined roles. You use the group finder and you can select what you are (tank, dps, or healer). Sure it allows you to pick any combination of the three but people don't fully understand the trade off.
Take a group of jack-of-all. They picked gear/skill combinations to given them a little bit of everything but they didn't focus on any one thing. They think they can fill any role but they really can't. In such a situation, if one acted as a tank and another acted as a healer, the party will not survive. Since the person acting as a tank didn't focus on being a tank, and since the person acting as a healer didn't focus on being a healer, then the combined soaking + healing isn't enough to survive the enemies meant for a group.
So how would a group like that beat a group dungeon? By sharing the responsibility of each of the roles. So each takes a turn as tank until they are about to die then the next person takes over. They all put in a share of the healing and they all combine their dps efforts. If done right, by the time it comes back around to the first person to act as tank, they are back to full hp and ready to tank again.
Lemme guess, you relied on being a bard/chanter for groups?
Oh, as for "watering down", wow still has a trinity. You arent getting dps to tank content that matters, ie: you dont outgear it.
My dirge on EQ2? I tanked Drunder instances and raid bosses after the tank screwed up and died.
Nothing like recasting hate song on myself and spinning that thing around befote the tank finished saying "crap get me up".
Nope i was a shadow knight. and yes we are doing VR content VR dungeons with me sorc tanking so to speak in light though its not even really a tank its a DPS with a taunt because its pretty lame tactics By the way im only VR 3 clearing all the Vr dungeons.
We do get hung up here and there all of us under VR 6 . will dpened on how much sorc AOE we have lol
Ah, I didnt like SK tanks. Bad pugs. Bleh.
Everyone likes to blame wow for watering down mmos but relavent for your gear content isnt being cleared without the trinity.
Here its a bit harder to outgear dungeons but I dont recall anuthing saying they were getting rid of the trinity. I know gw2 said that but unsure here.
After doing all the content here i disagree. The trinity here is very murky and really borders GW2 too much. the roles here are DPS with a taunt and one CC, AOE DPS / ST DPS , and DPS with two heals. All wearing light armor and all using staves but the tank swapping from SNS to staff. Its extremely poor game play, poor design and ba implementation. sorry thats just the state of end game.0 -
bugulu✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I think people are missing the point of the armors themselves. The armors are only supposed to give slight bonuses. The thing about the game is player skill means more than what your wearing.
IF your a skilled player you SHOULD be able to tank fine in Light Armor considering you geared yourself to at least reach the soft cap.
CAN Heavy armor do it better YES, but Heavy armor SHOULDNT be the only means of tanking.
Spell Casters CAN wear Heavy Armor as it will increase their survivability but it will also at the same time decrease their casting efficiency.
This all lends well to the theme of the game with is Play the Way You Want.
There is NOTHING wrong with armor in the game. Its the balance between Magicka and Stamina that's the real issue.
But again with Magicka/Stamina there is a bigger picture we are still missing. LOT of people are on the forums claiming they are able to play their Melee classes quite well even in Veteran Rank.
I replied to your post in the DPS thread earlier, you didn't reply back.
Face it, Medium and Heavy Armor is weaker than Light Armor.
There is a reason why majority of trial DPSers are using light armor and not medium and heavy armor. This is not only because magicka builds are stronger than stamina builds, light armor provides so much more for a damage dealer than medium and heavy are doing at the moment.
Its easy to see why people are using Light Armor over the other 2. Light Armor improves Magicka.
IF Stamina builds were equal to to Magicka then looking at the armor WHAT is exactly wrong with them.
There is plenty of wrong things with the medium and heavy armor compared to light armor.
Light Armor:
Reduce magicka cost of abilities by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase magicka recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Increase spell resistance by 8% for each armor piece.
10% extra critical chance when wearing a five set light armor.
Ignore 6% spell resistance for each armor piece.
Medium Armor:
Increase Critical Strike chance by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase stamina recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Detection area 5%, sneak 7% less cost for each armor piece.
Increase Attack speed by 10% when wearing a five set medium armor.
Increase Sprint speed by 3% and reduce dodge cost by 4% for each armor piece.
Heavy Armor:
Increase Armor and spell resistance by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase Health Recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Increase weapon damage with melee attacks by 1% for each armor piece.
Decrease block cost by 20% when wearing a five set heavy armor.
Increase healing received by 1% for each armor piece.
All five passives for Light Armor are good abilities that boosts their playstyle.
For Medium Armor, you end up having two passives (third and fifth ability) that are essentially worthless in PvE. Critical Strike Chance is better than that 10% Attack speed.
Heavy Armor shouldn't be used as dps, the passives barely boost DPS (except the weapon damage). It is a tree primary used for tanking.
And yet the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor when it comes to tanking is that heavy is only slightly better than Light Armor.
Heavy in the other hand is much worse than Light Armor when it comes to DPS.
Now, how in earth is that fair?
Add in the fact that magicka users have access to Spell Symmetry which restores your magicka enabling you never go OOM whilst there is no equivalent for stamina users for that ability.Edited by bugulu on June 20, 2014 3:27PM2 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I think people are missing the point of the armors themselves. The armors are only supposed to give slight bonuses. The thing about the game is player skill means more than what your wearing.
IF your a skilled player you SHOULD be able to tank fine in Light Armor considering you geared yourself to at least reach the soft cap.
CAN Heavy armor do it better YES, but Heavy armor SHOULDNT be the only means of tanking.
Spell Casters CAN wear Heavy Armor as it will increase their survivability but it will also at the same time decrease their casting efficiency.
This all lends well to the theme of the game with is Play the Way You Want.
There is NOTHING wrong with armor in the game. Its the balance between Magicka and Stamina that's the real issue.
But again with Magicka/Stamina there is a bigger picture we are still missing. LOT of people are on the forums claiming they are able to play their Melee classes quite well even in Veteran Rank.
I replied to your post in the DPS thread earlier, you didn't reply back.
Face it, Medium and Heavy Armor is weaker than Light Armor.
There is a reason why majority of trial DPSers are using light armor and not medium and heavy armor. This is not only because magicka builds are stronger than stamina builds, light armor provides so much more for a damage dealer than medium and heavy are doing at the moment.
Its easy to see why people are using Light Armor over the other 2. Light Armor improves Magicka.
IF Stamina builds were equal to to Magicka then looking at the armor WHAT is exactly wrong with them.
There is plenty of wrong things with the medium and heavy armor compared to light armor.
Light Armor:
Reduce magicka cost of abilities by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase magicka recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Increase spell resistance by 8% for each armor piece.
10% extra critical chance when wearing a five set light armor.
Ignore 6% spell resistance for each armor piece.
Medium Armor:
Increase Critical Strike chance by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase stamina recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Detection area 5%, sneak 7% less cost for each armor piece.
Increase Attack speed by 10% when wearing a five set medium armor.
Increase Sprint speed by 3% and reduce dodge cost by 4% for each armor piece.
Heavy Armor:
Increase Armor and spell resistance by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase Health Recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Increase weapon damage with melee attacks by 1% for each armor piece.
Decrease block cost by 20% when wearing a five set heavy armor.
Increase healing received by 1% for each armor piece.
All five passives for Light Armor are good abilities that boosts their playstyle.
For Medium Armor, you end up having two passives (third and fifth ability) that are essentially worthless in PvE. Critical Strike Chance is better than that 10% Attack speed.
Heavy Armor shouldn't be used as dps, the passives barely boost DPS (except the weapon damage). It is a tree primary used for tanking.
And yet the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor when it comes to tanking is that heavy is only slightly better than Light Armor.
Heavy in the other hand is much worse than Light Armor when it comes to DPS.
Now, how in earth is that fair?
Add in the fact that magicka users have access to Spell Symmetry which restores your magicka enabling you never go OOM whilst there is no equivalent for stamina users for that ability.
I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.0 -
bugulu✭✭✭Shaun, the fault that you are making is theorycrafting that magicka users when running out of magicka will be useless. This is wrong.
1. Restoration heavy attacks restore magicka.
2. Spell Symmetry restores their magicka for a HP exchange.
Spell Symmetry by itself is enough to keep yourself up without fearing to run out of magicka. Restoration heavy attacks is probably very rarely used since that breaks animation cancelling enabling you to reach highest possible DPS.0 -
bugulu✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.Edited by bugulu on June 20, 2014 3:43PM2 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I think people are missing the point of the armors themselves. The armors are only supposed to give slight bonuses. The thing about the game is player skill means more than what your wearing.
IF your a skilled player you SHOULD be able to tank fine in Light Armor considering you geared yourself to at least reach the soft cap.
CAN Heavy armor do it better YES, but Heavy armor SHOULDNT be the only means of tanking.
Spell Casters CAN wear Heavy Armor as it will increase their survivability but it will also at the same time decrease their casting efficiency.
This all lends well to the theme of the game with is Play the Way You Want.
There is NOTHING wrong with armor in the game. Its the balance between Magicka and Stamina that's the real issue.
But again with Magicka/Stamina there is a bigger picture we are still missing. LOT of people are on the forums claiming they are able to play their Melee classes quite well even in Veteran Rank.
I replied to your post in the DPS thread earlier, you didn't reply back.
Face it, Medium and Heavy Armor is weaker than Light Armor.
There is a reason why majority of trial DPSers are using light armor and not medium and heavy armor. This is not only because magicka builds are stronger than stamina builds, light armor provides so much more for a damage dealer than medium and heavy are doing at the moment.
Its easy to see why people are using Light Armor over the other 2. Light Armor improves Magicka.
IF Stamina builds were equal to to Magicka then looking at the armor WHAT is exactly wrong with them.
There is plenty of wrong things with the medium and heavy armor compared to light armor.
Light Armor:
Reduce magicka cost of abilities by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase magicka recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Increase spell resistance by 8% for each armor piece.
10% extra critical chance when wearing a five set light armor.
Ignore 6% spell resistance for each armor piece.
Medium Armor:
Increase Critical Strike chance by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase stamina recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Detection area 5%, sneak 7% less cost for each armor piece.
Increase Attack speed by 10% when wearing a five set medium armor.
Increase Sprint speed by 3% and reduce dodge cost by 4% for each armor piece.
Heavy Armor:
Increase Armor and spell resistance by 3% for each armor piece.
Increase Health Recovery by 4% for each armor piece.
Increase weapon damage with melee attacks by 1% for each armor piece.
Decrease block cost by 20% when wearing a five set heavy armor.
Increase healing received by 1% for each armor piece.
All five passives for Light Armor are good abilities that boosts their playstyle.
For Medium Armor, you end up having two passives (third and fifth ability) that are essentially worthless in PvE. Critical Strike Chance is better than that 10% Attack speed.
Heavy Armor shouldn't be used as dps, the passives barely boost DPS (except the weapon damage). It is a tree primary used for tanking.
And yet the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor when it comes to tanking is that heavy is only slightly better than Light Armor.
Heavy in the other hand is much worse than Light Armor when it comes to DPS.
Now, how in earth is that fair?
Add in the fact that magicka users have access to Spell Symmetry which restores your magicka enabling you never go OOM whilst there is no equivalent for stamina users for that ability.
I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Partner its why every single class has a Armor buff. sorry but if the reality is you can tank naked and if heavy supposed to only slightly better for tanking then they utterly failed because it is extremely worse. you max out at a 3 % additionl healing while light gives 28 to 40 % in its passives0 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »What people must also understand is that , while the passives are umbalanced , so are the active skills.
There is no question immovable is by far the best one of them all and may alone make worth using heavy armor on itself if they added a requirement of 5 pieces.
Now i dont support this idea , i would rather be able to use any skill on any set , but i wish more people making these threads also had ideas when it came to balancing the current active skills , because they are in no any better balanced than the passives.
You're very right, there is an imbalance in active skills as well. However part of that imbalance can be attributed to the imbalances in armor passives. Now to really achieve balance you can't just change everything all at once, because then you wont know if you really fixed the problem or just created a whole set of new issues.
Another issue with active skills at the moment is that all class skills use magicka at the moment and the number of magicka:stamina skills is more than 2:1 right now. This needs to change as well so that "true" stamina builds can actually exist. I personally think that half of every class's class skills should use stamina instead of magicka and the ratio should be 8:7 - magicka:stamina. At the same time all utility functions (block, sprint, etc.) need to pull resources from a completely sperate resource pool. This in my opinion is one of the only real ways to reach an actual balance between magicka vs stamina builds, however fixing armor passives would be a good start!
I think part of the issue is Magicka and Stamina comparisons is like comparing Apples and Oranges. You cant expect the same things from the 2 based on their current design.
The fact that Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break uses Stamina actually makes a LOT of sense due to the fact that Melees ARE in range to use Block and Stun. Dodge and CC Break just adds to the already increased survivability of the 2.
This lends well to Magicka builds as they really DONT need increases in that same survivability since they get their comparable survivability from their Magicka. Magicka gets ranged knockbacks and knockdowns along with self heals.
Now this isn't to say that Stamina and Magicka DOESNT get to use the other resource as well its just they really don't rely on it AS much.
Now with that said to me it LOOKS like Stamina get the better of the deal as MANY Magicka abilities are useful TO Stamina regardless of points in Stamina.
So looking at that is it really fair to expect Stamina to preform the same as Magicka as they have already different standing pros and cons?
Thats where a huge part of the imbalance comes from between magicka and stamina builds though...for stamina builds you need to use your main resource to perform your main role and to survive, whereas with a magicka build you use your main resource to perform your primary role and then you has a completely seperate (and un-used) bar for your survivability.
This is an inherent imbalance in the design of the game and one the many reasons why magicka is much more powerful than stamina."Only the dead have seen the end of war."1 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun, the fault that you are making is theorycrafting that magicka users when running out of magicka will be useless. This is wrong.
1. Restoration heavy attacks restore magicka.
2. Spell Symmetry restores their magicka for a HP exchange.
Spell Symmetry by itself is enough to keep yourself up without fearing to run out of magicka. Restoration heavy attacks is probably very rarely used since that breaks animation cancelling enabling you to reach highest possible DPS.
Actually your point IS correct in one aspect. Magicka builds HAVE to use certain things to achieve what they are. What happends when those toys point 1. and 2. are taken away? What happens is a clear balance that was always intended to begin with.
You are supposed to manage the resources. MANAGE not gain back just as fast as you spend it.
So when I make that statement I look at what ZOS has done. Took away Templars Magicka GAIN. Nerfed in upcoming patch 1.2 NightBlades ability to gain Magicka and maintain a strong DPS.
DragonKnights never had much of a Magicka gain either to begin with.
So it seems like Magicka NOT running out was an issue and they are addressing it. WE the community DONT know this as it has never been explained. So whatever Devs are working on we know very little about. This could be the intended design.
Magicka High damage low sustainment
Stamina Good Damage high sustainment
BEST values are a mixed/balanced build while still being valuable going full hard cap into either stat.
0 -
bugulu✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun, the fault that you are making is theorycrafting that magicka users when running out of magicka will be useless. This is wrong.
1. Restoration heavy attacks restore magicka.
2. Spell Symmetry restores their magicka for a HP exchange.
Spell Symmetry by itself is enough to keep yourself up without fearing to run out of magicka. Restoration heavy attacks is probably very rarely used since that breaks animation cancelling enabling you to reach highest possible DPS.
Actually your point IS correct in one aspect. Magicka builds HAVE to use certain things to achieve what they are. What happends when those toys point 1. and 2. are taken away? What happens is a clear balance that was always intended to begin with.
You are supposed to manage the resources. MANAGE not gain back just as fast as you spend it.
So when I make that statement I look at what ZOS has done. Took away Templars Magicka GAIN. Nerfed in upcoming patch 1.2 NightBlades ability to gain Magicka and maintain a strong DPS.
DragonKnights never had much of a Magicka gain either to begin with.
So it seems like Magicka NOT running out was an issue and they are addressing it. WE the community DONT know this as it has never been explained. So whatever Devs are working on we know very little about. This could be the intended design.
Magicka High damage low sustainment
Stamina Good Damage high sustainment
BEST values are a mixed/balanced build while still being valuable going full hard cap into either stat.
So what are you saying? Remove those abilities so magicka builds can't get back their magicka?
0 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.
I was literally going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to the punch
"Only the dead have seen the end of war."0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun, the fault that you are making is theorycrafting that magicka users when running out of magicka will be useless. This is wrong.
1. Restoration heavy attacks restore magicka.
2. Spell Symmetry restores their magicka for a HP exchange.
Spell Symmetry by itself is enough to keep yourself up without fearing to run out of magicka. Restoration heavy attacks is probably very rarely used since that breaks animation cancelling enabling you to reach highest possible DPS.
Actually your point IS correct in one aspect. Magicka builds HAVE to use certain things to achieve what they are. What happends when those toys point 1. and 2. are taken away? What happens is a clear balance that was always intended to begin with.
You are supposed to manage the resources. MANAGE not gain back just as fast as you spend it.
So when I make that statement I look at what ZOS has done. Took away Templars Magicka GAIN. Nerfed in upcoming patch 1.2 NightBlades ability to gain Magicka and maintain a strong DPS.
DragonKnights never had much of a Magicka gain either to begin with.
So it seems like Magicka NOT running out was an issue and they are addressing it. WE the community DONT know this as it has never been explained. So whatever Devs are working on we know very little about. This could be the intended design.
Magicka High damage low sustainment
Stamina Good Damage high sustainment
BEST values are a mixed/balanced build while still being valuable going full hard cap into either stat.
So what are you saying? Remove those abilities so magicka builds can't get back their magicka?
I wouldn't necessarily say remove them but more less make them LESS advantageous to the user. Right now there is ZERO downside to equipping a Restro Staff and never running out of Magicka. Actually if your using ANYTHING BUT a Restro Staff your DOING IT WRONG because the Restro Staff IS SO advantageous making ALL OTHER options obsolete.
Spell Symmetry may not be disadvantageous enough.
So Magicka users have ways to make sure they don't run out of Magicka.
WHY have the Magicka bar at all then? Wasn't the point of the current system to "manage your Magicka" to use the right ability at the right time before you run out versus your regen.
Who actually does that with Magicka any more? Is Magicka management really an issue any more....... NO.
What I recommended a while back somewhere was for somebody(not me a person who KNOWS what their doing) to look at the balance of say....
A DK full Magicka without Restro staff or Spell Symmetry versus a Full Stamina build.
FULL meaning as close to hard cap as possible with NO enchantments/points to the opposing stat.
This way you can truly see how they are panning out.0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭GothicPython wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.
I was literally going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to the punch
Its because that is not what Zos intended. they said all classes could fill any role by picking their weapon and armor set. Tanking was meant for heavy armor even thier Lead game director tanks in heavy armor he just does not play his own game enough to see that it was broken. Not only Does light give more DPS but also magica regen where every single ability you would use for tanking comes from. No no no man the armor system is bottom line broken as melee is
Edited by Wifeaggro13 on June 20, 2014 4:36PM1 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.
I was literally going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to the punch
Its because that is not what Zos intended. they said all classes could fill any role by picking their weapon and armor set. Tanking was meant for heavy armor even theier Lead gamediretor tanks in heavy armor he just does not play his own gameenough to see that it was broken.
Haha ya he clearly doesn't
"Only the dead have seen the end of war."0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.
I was literally going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to the punch
Its because that is not what Zos intended. they said all classes could fill any role by picking their weapon and armor set. Tanking was meant for heavy armor even theier Lead gamediretor tanks in heavy armor he just does not play his own gameenough to see that it was broken.
Did a Devs SAY you were only meant to tank in Heavy or did you conclude that cause the played they game and tanked in Heavy?Edited by Shaun98ca2 on June 20, 2014 4:42PM1 -
makkon✭✭✭so, topic started wanna up medium and heavy armor and down to useless light...agree with heavy and medium, disagree with light armor part.
zos need alot of work on redesign and rebalance some skills and spells first, after what, they should redesign armor lines for sure0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.
I was literally going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to the punch
Its because that is not what Zos intended. they said all classes could fill any role by picking their weapon and armor set. Tanking was meant for heavy armor even theier Lead gamediretor tanks in heavy armor he just does not play his own gameenough to see that it was broken.
Did a Devs SAY you were only meant to tank in Heavy or did you conclude that cause the played the game and tanked in Heavy?
no its because they described it that way. Followed the game for two years before release was a member of the unoffical boards from Day one. its what they described. Class armor Buffs were put there so if a tank dropped you could pick up the role until the tank was revived. the only one with a armor toggle is sorc . it brings you right to armor cap. Fing ridculous man i mitigate damage better with my sorc in light then my DK in the best crafted heavy available.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.
I was literally going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to the punch
Its because that is not what Zos intended. they said all classes could fill any role by picking their weapon and armor set. Tanking was meant for heavy armor even theier Lead gamediretor tanks in heavy armor he just does not play his own gameenough to see that it was broken.
Did a Devs SAY you were only meant to tank in Heavy or did you conclude that cause the played the game and tanked in Heavy?
no its because they described it that way. Followed the game for two years before release was a member of the unoffical boards from Day one. its what they described. Class armor Buffs were put there so if a tank dropped you could pick up the role until the tank was revived. the only one with a armor toggle is sorc . it brings you right to armor cap. Fing ridculous man i mitigate damage better with my sorc in light then my DK in the best crafted heavy available.
Ok but they said when a tank drops they didn't state that a tank MUST and ONLY wears Heavy Armor. They said the buff was to allow somebody to step in and take the tanks place, sorta like using a weapon swap and now being able to tank.
Unless a dev clearly stated tanking was only meant to be done in heavy armor I believe people are just hearing what they want to hear as this is what they are used to.1 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭so, topic started wanna up medium and heavy armor and down to useless light...agree with heavy and medium, disagree with light armor part.
zos need alot of work on redesign and rebalance some skills and spells first, after what, they should redesign armor lines for sure
That is incorrect. My ideas for armor changes were based around the concept of either bringing heavy and medium armor up to the current standing of light armor (and leaving light armor alone as it is right now)...or...bring light armor down to the current standings of heavy and medium (and making no real changes to heavy or medium).
And as its been re-iterated several times already, part of the reason why so many skills are unbalanced right now is in-part due to the imbalances in armor passives. Fix the amor lines first and then fix skills."Only the dead have seen the end of war."1 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »They need to nerf the hell out of sticks and dresses.
lol Ragnar
Unfotunately it would not fix it. then it would just be *** in all armor1 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »They need to nerf the hell out of sticks and dresses.
Crippling the one effective setup in the game is not going to make the other setups perform any better.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank1 -
david.haypreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭GothicPython wrote: »
Thats where a huge part of the imbalance comes from between magicka and stamina builds though...for stamina builds you need to use your main resource to perform your main role and to survive, whereas with a magicka build you use your main resource to perform your primary role and then you has a completely seperate (and un-used) bar for your survivability.
This is an inherent imbalance in the design of the game and one the many reasons why magicka is much more powerful than stamina.
I agree completely. There are actually several reasons for the imbalance, though, and I think all of them need to be addressed collectively to solve the imbalances:
--Stamina is used both for blocking/dodging/rolling and for skills, whereas Magic is not (as you note).
--Light armor passives are better than medium/heavy.
--Some weapons (staves) scale partially off of Magicka, but no class skills scale as much off of Stamina.
--It is easier to replenish magicka than stamina.
--Class skills (based on Magicka) have ultimates whereas weapon skills (based on Stamina) do not.Templars are 'just slower... by design'
Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
VR 16 Sorcerer
38 Nightblade
24 DK0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »
Thats where a huge part of the imbalance comes from between magicka and stamina builds though...for stamina builds you need to use your main resource to perform your main role and to survive, whereas with a magicka build you use your main resource to perform your primary role and then you has a completely seperate (and un-used) bar for your survivability.
This is an inherent imbalance in the design of the game and one the many reasons why magicka is much more powerful than stamina.
--Stamina is used both for blocking/dodging/rolling and for skills, whereas Magic is not (as you note).
Does NOBODY realize that Magicka builds are required to deplete their Magicka on stuff OTHER than DPS to stay viable like a Stamina user is.
How does a Magicka user CC or Self Heal??? What about Utility? This comes out of their resource pool just like a Stamina user needs to user their resource to stay alive in combat.
Block Dodge Stun is CRITICAL to a Melee build.
CC Self Heals Utility is CRITICAL to a Magicka build.
The costs come of out their resource pool.
0 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »They need to nerf the hell out of sticks and dresses.
Crippling the one effective setup in the game is not going to make the other setups perform any better.
Orly? Why then were you people crying for 1h & s nerfs?0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.
I was literally going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to the punch
Its because that is not what Zos intended. they said all classes could fill any role by picking their weapon and armor set. Tanking was meant for heavy armor even thier Lead game director tanks in heavy armor he just does not play his own game enough to see that it was broken. Not only Does light give more DPS but also magica regen where every single ability you would use for tanking comes from. No no no man the armor system is bottom line broken as melee is
I remember the role being defined by WEAPON, armor never was mentioned.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »
Thats where a huge part of the imbalance comes from between magicka and stamina builds though...for stamina builds you need to use your main resource to perform your main role and to survive, whereas with a magicka build you use your main resource to perform your primary role and then you has a completely seperate (and un-used) bar for your survivability.
This is an inherent imbalance in the design of the game and one the many reasons why magicka is much more powerful than stamina.
--Stamina is used both for blocking/dodging/rolling and for skills, whereas Magic is not (as you note).
Does NOBODY realize that Magicka builds are required to deplete their Magicka on stuff OTHER than DPS to stay viable like a Stamina user is.
How does a Magicka user CC or Self Heal??? What about Utility? This comes out of their resource pool just like a Stamina user needs to user their resource to stay alive in combat.
Block Dodge Stun is CRITICAL to a Melee build.
CC Self Heals Utility is CRITICAL to a Magicka build.
The costs come of out their resource pool.
Block dodge is even more critical to a magicka build that didn't manage to kill it before it got to them.
I don't use any of my magicka for survival. That's what blocking and dodging is for.0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »GothicPython wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »I know Im gonna miss stuff but here we go.
Medium Armor users get a HUGE boon out of sneaking as it increases the damage of their opener. The decrease in cost of sprint may be stupid but its an added boon to the decrease in cost of Dodge.
Heavy Armor assumes your attempting to tank. The increase to the Light/Heavy Attack helps in that a tank needs to use its Stamina sparingly to taunt and stay alive. This makes sense for a Stamina tank.
The difference between Light Armor and Heavy armor is MEANT to be only slightly better. This is what ZOS wanted so people can play a Light Armor tank. That being said its really a matter of playstyle worth of difference between a Light Armor and Heavy Armor Tank.
Light Armor Tank needs its Magicka to keep itself alive and lack in the same survivability a Heavy Armor Tank gains like decrease in cost of blocking and increased healing received.
The differences are supposed to be very minimal while still being noticeable.
The current issue is Magicka is simply hands down better than Stamina. Its not the armors themselves.
Who cares about a huge opener in PvE? Sorry, that is a worthless argument when it comes to high end PvE raiding. In PvP it has its advantages when you are attacking solo players but since majority of the fights in Cyrodiil are huge groups clashing at each other, it does not simply cut it.
It's good that we agree that the difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor is meant to be only slightly better.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it should also apply to DPS. A Heavy Armor User should only deal slightly less DPS than a Light Armor user.
Yet by looking at the passives alone, almost none of the passives for Heavy Armor users are lucrative for DPSers.
I ask the question again. Why should the difference between tanking be only slightly different when it's justified that light armor users should be able to do much more damage? Shouldn't they also do slightly more damage then? If tanking in heavy armor only has slight advantage compared to the weakest armor class, then DPS in light armor should be only slightly more than heavy armor.
I was literally going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to the punch
Its because that is not what Zos intended. they said all classes could fill any role by picking their weapon and armor set. Tanking was meant for heavy armor even thier Lead game director tanks in heavy armor he just does not play his own game enough to see that it was broken. Not only Does light give more DPS but also magica regen where every single ability you would use for tanking comes from. No no no man the armor system is bottom line broken as melee is
I remember the role being defined by WEAPON, armor never was mentioned.
It will be a lonely game of wizards on line my friend its fine that your a robe wearer and have no desire to step outside your spec defending this type of f up in way shape or form is pretty ridiculous . the game is broken trying to say ZOs intended everyone to wear a robe is pretty much a empty argument. why the hell does heavy armor have all this health and mitigation in it with zero DPs or magica regen. Because they intended heavy armor to be your end game choice for the tank role.2