Do you really want arena PvP?

MasterSpatula

No.

Lowbei wrote: »

solutions to make it not distract from cyrodiil have already been proposed, so your point is invalid

Are they in this thread? Did you mention any of them? Did you post a link to any of them? No? Then you have a little more work to do before you get to make that claim.

Lowbei

Yes.

on the topic of arenas... of the dozens of posts here... we have discussed many options... my bad for assuming that people voting on the topic had participated in the discussion. i forget that randoms like to vote on topics of which they are uninformed.

but again, you simply have the arenas be set for gvg and on a 24 hour timer, with no rewards other than the bets placed on the fight by those participating. thus, since they are one daily fight, the fights mean more to the participants and are likely to be higher quality fights due to the stakes. also due to the one max per day thing, they wouldnt distract from cyrodiil, especially since 95% of players are not competitive and thus wouldnt sign up for it knowing they would fail.

RedTalon

If its done right and with taste.

Samadhi

I'm largely indifferent.
I'd join them from time to time when things got slow in Cyrodiil, but I mainly prefer 1v1s and PK on map; it interests me more.

I think the system would be a good addition to those who prefer small group PvP regardless of whether I would participate in it much.

I would really like to see dueling added to game though.

TheBucket

No.

Seems the majority of thread watchers has spoken. Almost double.

TheBucket

No.

Gravord wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Zerg blobbing is not and will never be an effective tactic. Oil pots are meant to counter zergs and provide an ample defense, which is how they are intended to function. If you are trying to enter a tower that is filled with enemies deploying oil, you were foolish enough to not destroy the tower to begin with.

AvA is dying. ZOS is reducing campaigns because they overestimated how many people would participate them, and most of the current campaigns are dead. On the contrary, if you've actually participated in Cyrodiil, you would see all the players who mindlessly kill and farm AP at the expense of AvA. These are likely the same players who will participate in Arena PvP. There is no benefit to adding this system as it will only negatively impact the PvP that is already existing in the game.

How is PvP gear not a big benefit and why do most "reasonable" pvpers not use it? The point is Arena PvP matches will be shorter, resulting in likely a faster gain of gear as well as experience. This in many ways would further discourage the incentive to join Cyrodiil.

Oil pots are currently plant on flat ground and ill give you medal if you explain me how oil under my shoe can do 2k dmg per second and there will be 5 of them in each tower (just on the door plus more on next floors). Or Alessia bridge where they are planted on flat ground and do dmg tru walls (small rooms on both sides of entrance to bridge). Probably you have no idea how many ppl daily log off from Cyrodiil after watching oil/siege/npc mercs abused repeatedly for way too high dmg comparing to what player skills can do.

As for pvp gear, only heavy armor last set bonus is good to use but with current game state you are forced to use light, which have very low and almost never proccing absorb on it. Crafted or v10 dungeon gear is much more usefull.

bruceb14_ESO5 wrote: »

I like the idea of informal fights but not scored. Scoring, rankings of individuals do cause a feeling of either being beastly or crappy and segment teams instead of growing them together.

But leaderboard based on vamp ultimate abuse is totally fine? Because its what we have on every campaign leaderboard right now from each side.

Edit: Arena leaderboard could include simple xx/from xx fights won, showing recent 10 for example and overall. So score wouldnt be based on time you can spend in game but actual results

I'll give you a medal if you can explain how someone can teleport? Since we are attempting to compare realism in a fantasy based MMO.

Shaun98ca2

No.

Arenas would be a TERRIBLE addition to this game. Cyrodiil NEEDs small groups of 6-12 to shut down transit lines and steal the elder scrolls. For those that desire the "open world PVP" so they can group up and gank people...that is ENTIRELY needed in Cyrodill. There is even PVE content for people to go attempt.

The ONLY PVP that needs to be focused on in this game ix Cyrodiil. If they add more stuff in Cyrodiil for small groups to do I wouldn't cry about it, but lets get the small groups to actually start contributing whats already there from them to do and then see if they need to ask for me.

1. Steal Elder Scrolls.

2. Shut Down Transit lines(I BELEIVE this is done by stealing all 3 resources)

3. Gank "Sheep" heading back to the herd.(This sadly doesn't happen to me often but it has once in a while)

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Gravord wrote: »

Oil pots are currently plant on flat ground and ill give you medal if you explain me how oil under my shoe can do 2k dmg per second and there will be 5 of them in each tower (just on the door plus more on next floors). Or Alessia bridge where they are planted on flat ground and do dmg tru walls (small rooms on both sides of entrance to bridge). Probably you have no idea how many ppl daily log off from Cyrodiil after watching oil/siege/npc mercs abused repeatedly for way too high dmg comparing to what player skills can do.

As for pvp gear, only heavy armor last set bonus is good to use but with current game state you are forced to use light, which have very low and almost never proccing absorb on it. Crafted or v10 dungeon gear is much more usefull.

Certainly some of the mechanics of how oil can be used are questionable. Regardless, it is still a very effective tool at countering zergs, which is the intention.

Obviously damage through walls is more than just an oil issue, but AOE in general, and ZOS needs to revamp their code to more accurately determine where damage should be felt.

You are speaking to the wrong player, friend. AvA is what I have been participating in since beta and I'm fairly certainly I have invested more hours into it than you have. I have seen the abuses. I have seen the exploits. I have even made a variety of threads addressing such issues, with mercenaries being one of them, since they are incredibly broken. Feel free to view my various discussions through my profile.

Heavy armor is under-performing, but ZOS is taking steps to improve its viability. I personally wear the entire heavy armor covenant set because of the great set bonus and because I am a tank. As far as crafted or PvE gear being better, that's more of a subjective claim and really depends on how you are building your character.

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Yasha wrote: »

Always love unbiased polls prefaced by a page long exposition on why you should vote the way the maker of the poll wants you to....

BTW

1) your thoughts on the impact of a structured pvp environment on class balance make no sense.

2) You appear to be claiming that spvp is non-skill based but AvA is -WTF?

3) Your fear that spvp will undermine AvA is completely unfounded. The only two games (that i know of) that have a similar set up to ESO's AVA and which also have spvp have/had a far higher AvA population than spvp population.

Like so many others on these forums you are looking at how spvp impacted OWPVP in other games- AvA is a completely different beast. As long as the AvA is good/fun/rewarding its going to popular.

The poll is purely unbiased. It's a simple question and you either answer yes or no. My opinion, as I have stated as such, is merely my thoughts on an arena and the potential repercussions of such an addition to the game. It should not impact your answer in the slightest.

The issue with your first point is you make a claim that my thoughts on instanced PvP do not make sense. How so? You do not give any justification for your blatant claim. All I am left to believe is you purely disagree and that is your right and opinion to do so. Unless you actually provide evidence, you have done nothing to strengthen your argument.

Structured PvP doesn't require any skill. If you have actually played AAA MMOs with structured PvP, they all function more or less identical. Certain specs, compositions, and classes always excel. The developer then comes in and nerfs these outliers, and the cycle continues with new builds and such. Ultimately the only "skill" is play the class and composition that wins. Then it's just a matter of who is better at DPSing.

AvA, which is world PvP with actual objectives, is much more in-depth. To succeed requires tactics, coordination, and team work. This isn't small scale PvP where the results are always going to be predictable. Players actually have to use their wits to succeed in AvA.

Some will attempt to try and zerg their way to success, but this isn't GW2, and zerging only leaves the rest of your territory vulnerable for attack. The skill doesn't come from playing overpowered specs and killing non-VR players, but rather how you adapt to the battlefield and execute your strategies.

ESO isn't other MMORPGs. The main feature of this game is AvA and it has been the factor ZOS has championed since the game was announced. That is why we have three factions. That is why there are three different story lines meant to build faction camaraderie. That is why races are locked to particular factions. That is why we don't have an auction house. All of these decisions were meant to further enhance and build the AvA experience.

Arenas absolutely take away from AvA because we now have a second, alternative PvP system. They will be quicker, shorter, more casual, and likely provide the same rewards one receives in AvA. This will make Arenas better for progression and leveling, and would discourage many from investing time into Cyrodiil. This isn't rocket science. You start giving people too many options and you divide your community. AvA was supposed to be the PvP experience of this game, and that is no longer the case.

Lets not be foolish now. If developers do not learn from the mistakes of others in the past, they are doomed to repeat them. Just look at all the WoW clones that have come and fallen because developers did not learn from their mistakes. AvA will only remain popular if it continues to be relevant, provide incentive, and offer an experience nobody else can replicate. ZOS thus far has shown very little interest in addressing AvA, as they are concerned with talking about Trials, new PvE zones, and now an entirely new PvP system.

It has been more than two months and we have heard very little about AvA. What about the Imperial City? When are these sweeping changes to campaigns going to happen? Will the issues with the emperorship, AP gains, siege engines, and mercenaries ever be resolved? How about the fact that Forward Camps and large party crashing have been issues since beta and ZOS still has failed to resolve these issues? AvA is dying. The longer ZOS refuses to rectify these issues and just provide other features to hide it, the less relevant it will be.

Lowbei

Yes.

there should be an alliance rank requirement to vote, since bads will always vote against anything that requires skill, to avoid future issues for themselves.

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Lowbei wrote: »

there should be an alliance rank requirement to vote, since bads will always vote against anything that requires skill, to avoid future issues for themselves.

Yes because those with a higher alliance rank are better players? Lets not be idiotic.

Alliance rank is purely tied to your AP accumulation. The more AP you have accumulated over the time, the faster your have progressed through the alliance ranks. This means the players at the top are the ones who sit around and farm AP all day long and do not participate or help their alliance in AvA.

Yes. Lets give more power to the players who have entirely missed the point of AvA and would rather troll with elder scrolls and farm PuG zergs all day for fun.

shanersimms_ESO

No.

Lowbei wrote: »

solutions to make it not distract from cyrodiil have already been proposed, so your point is invalid

I don't think you quite understand the definition of the term 'invalid'. At best you could argue his point is unsound, but even then we would need confirmation that an Arena would not detract from Cyrodiil PvP with its implementation. In the current state of the game, it seems that adding an arena would indeed impact the numbers in Cyrodiil if it was available 24/7. In addition, your proposal of having the chance to do arena only once per day would be extremely wasteful to dedicate production resources to a feature people get to only do once per day maximum. This would also cause problems with getting all the members of your arena team on at synchronized times to get to actually enjoy such a feature on a regular basis.

Tannakaobi

Yes.

Yeah, but not like wow had it.

We will have to wait and see, but to be honest I fear the worst.

Talketzanto

Yes.

Not a good poll because people who dont pvp at all will vote NO....

Another reason is that ALOT of people left or never bought the game because there was no arena/bgs....so those guys are not here to vote

Tarwin

No.

No

DAoC battle grounds please .. lottsa fun!

Talketzanto

Yes.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Arenas would be a TERRIBLE addition to this game. Cyrodiil NEEDs small groups of 6-12 to shut down transit lines and steal the elder scrolls. For those that desire the "open world PVP" so they can group up and gank people...that is ENTIRELY needed in Cyrodill. There is even PVE content for people to go attempt.

The ONLY PVP that needs to be focused on in this game ix Cyrodiil. If they add more stuff in Cyrodiil for small groups to do I wouldn't cry about it, but lets get the small groups to actually start contributing whats already there from them to do and then see if they need to ask for me.

1. Steal Elder Scrolls.

2. Shut Down Transit lines(I BELEIVE this is done by stealing all 3 resources)

3. Gank "Sheep" heading back to the herd.(This sadly doesn't happen to me often but it has once in a while)

Ever dawn on you that maybe people don't wanna do cyrodiil? Maybe people don't want to guard a path where 1 dude walks by every 10 minutes? Maybe people don't want to spend there little game time running from keep to keep?

Ever wonder?

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Talketzanto wrote: »

Not a good poll because people who dont pvp at all will vote NO....

Another reason is that ALOT of people left or never bought the game because there was no arena/bgs....so those guys are not here to vote

According to who? The Alliance War is dedicated to AvA and most of the threads are entirely specific to PvP. That would suggest that a majority, if not all, of the posters in here are PvPers or at least have some stake in it.

ESO was never going to have arenas or battlegrounds. Everybody knew from the start AvA was the premier feature of the game and if they quit over some feature that was never promised, then that is folly on their own part.

Plenty of others MMOs already have arenas and battlegrounds and do them well. ESO has AvA, which is a system very few offer and even less excel at. Adding more and more PvP features will only dilute the experience and lessen the game as a whole.

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Talketzanto wrote: »

Ever dawn on you that maybe people don't wanna do cyrodiil? Maybe people don't want to guard a path where 1 dude walks by every 10 minutes? Maybe people don't want to spend there little game time running from keep to keep?

Ever wonder?

Why are you playing this game then? ZOS stated from the very beginning Cyrodiil was the main feature of ESO and it was the first system they created. This is like someone buying a movie ticket to see The Avengers but they were actually hoping it was The Dark Knight Rises instead. You knew what you paid for. Why are you complaining?

Talketzanto

Yes.

Who's complaining? I said cyrodiil shouldn't be "pushed" on anyone.....And your point makes no sense. You'r saying there should not be new pvp content because YOU don't want it....

OK well I don't want ANYMORE dungeons because I like the ones we have....make sense still?


OHHHH and tell me ONE thing that you really want added to the game, just one! and ill tell you that you know what you paid for and you can find other games that have it

Nox_Aeterna

No.

Lowbei wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »
there should be an alliance rank requirement to vote, since bads will always vote against anything that requires skill, to avoid future issues for themselves.

And why you talk like that matters at all?

Heh funny fact , most playing pay the same month sub.

So it does not matter if they are good/bad , if they play PvE/PvP ...

In the end , your voice has the same exact value does not matter how good you think you are.

I dont want arenas balancing to mess up even more with the game , end of story.

Lowbei

Yes.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »
there should be an alliance rank requirement to vote, since bads will always vote against anything that requires skill, to avoid future issues for themselves.

And why you talk like that matters at all?

Heh funny fact , most playing pay the same month sub.

So it does not matter if they are good/bad , if they play PvE/PvP ...

In the end , your voice has the same exact value does not matter how good you think you are.

I dont want arenas balancing to mess up even more with the game , end of story.

lol who said anything about balancing?

also, again, pvers votes should not count on an arena poll, as they will always vote no.

this isnt rocket science, figure it out.

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Talketzanto wrote: »

Who's complaining? I said cyrodiil shouldn't be "pushed" on anyone.....And your point makes no sense. You'r saying there should not be new pvp content because YOU don't want it....

OK well I don't want ANYMORE dungeons because I like the ones we have....make sense still?


OHHHH and tell me ONE thing that you really want added to the game, just one! and ill tell you that you know what you paid for and you can find other games that have it

Matt Firor said in a interview with Game Informer when this game was first announced in May of 2012 that he would only lead the development of ESO if it had AvA. ZOS has also repeatedly stated up until this E3 showing that they had zero plans for other forms of PvP. AvA was their PvP system and they were committed to improving it and making it better.

This has little to do with what I want or don't want. This has to do with ZOS stating AvA was going to be the only PvP system and they weren't considering other alternatives anytime soon. They have clearly retracted previous statements and are now, intentionally or not, undermining the PvP system they already have.

Cyrodiil was not pushed on anyone. Cyrodiil is optional, albeit the main feature of the game. In Cyrodiil you can experience large scale PvP, as well as small scale. It offers much more variety and flexibility than any instanced or structured PvP system ever could. By copying other MMOs ZOS further undermines their own product and gives less incentive to continue investing in ESO.

Why? To appease a section of the community who never liked their game to begin with? This reminds me very much of SWG. A game SOE tried to expand and cater to a larger audience, but in the process, destroyed the game, its identity, and ruined any chance of an actual future. I don't want ESO to have an identity crisis. ZOS has a solid game. They should focus on improving it and if they add something new, it should compliment their current philosophy, not undermine it.

Talketzanto

Yes.

All I hear is :

Don't add it because I don't want it.
Don't add it because it will ruin balance (really? you must play a DK or Sorc)
Don't add it because unless I have a zerg around me I suck
Don't add it because I like sitting behind walls and guards during pvp

Signed, Baddies

Lowbei

Yes.

talketzanto just won the thread

Snit

No.

There are plenty of E-Sport PvP games for those who want that. Can we have one that *isn't* focused on that? I've played enough Capture the Flag and Let's All Lick the Huttball to last an e-lifetime, and I don't want this game moving in inch in that direction.

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Snit wrote: »

There are plenty of E-Sport PvP games for those who want that. Can we have one that *isn't* focused on that? I've played enough Capture the Flag and Let's All Lick the Huttball to last an e-lifetime, and I don't want this game moving in inch in that direction.

I agree. What ZOS promised us was 3-faction AvA analogous to DAoC's legendary RvR where faction pride and unity mattered. That is what I signed up for and what many were excited about for ESO. Arenas and battlegrounds were never part of that vision and they will only undermine where the focus of the PvP experience should be. ZOS even used to list reasons why they were against having open world PvP outside of Cyrodiil or other forms of PvP to prevent AvA from being diluted. Does ZOS not care now?

Lowbei

Yes.

zos is learning that you cannot create a pvp mmo while catering to the masses of bads, because without competition the pvp is lackluster and will eventually fail.

take daoc for example. daoc survived for years with rvr because there was competition. take away the competiton aspect, and all 8mans leave, leaving only the zerging bads, who are likely to quit anyway.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

No.

Talketzanto wrote: »

All I hear is :

Don't add it because I don't want it.
Don't add it because it will ruin balance (really? you must play a DK or Sorc)
Don't add it because unless I have a zerg around me I suck
Don't add it because I like sitting behind walls and guards during pvp

Signed, Baddies

I'm going to touch on that balance one. for a moment.

The issue is a lot of people tend to complain balance, but fail to realize that what they may consider "OP" really isn't (this is coming from a NB in case anyone is wondering.)

Now, I'm not saying this game is balanced, it isn't, and it obviously still needs work, but most people don't really know what is OP and what isn't.

I bring that up because there are tons of people complaining about various skills and have very horrendous suggestions for balance. I, and many people, do not like when people 'cry' out for nerfs and changes based on getting their ass kicked. Now you put that together, with the current way the skills and combat works (with virtually zero cooldowns and potential for stunlock>death) and you have a big mess.

I wouldn't be against an arena added later on, but it is definitely too early to add it. We need to see how AvA is working out after server changes and what not to see what populations are like, what needs work, and etc...


As a side note, I believe there are multiple guilds that set up small PvP in various areas. If people want some 1v1's or so, I'm sure you could look into them for now since there isnt a dueling/arena option

Gravord

Yes.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Certainly some of the mechanics of how oil can be used are questionable. Regardless, it is still a very effective tool at countering zergs, which is the intention.

Obviously damage through walls is more than just an oil issue, but AOE in general, and ZOS needs to revamp their code to more accurately determine where damage should be felt.

You are speaking to the wrong player, friend. AvA is what I have been participating in since beta and I'm fairly certainly I have invested more hours into it than you have. I have seen the abuses. I have seen the exploits. I have even made a variety of threads addressing such issues, with mercenaries being one of them, since they are incredibly broken. Feel free to view my various discussions through my profile.

You are dreamer mate. Oil to counter zergs? Oil its exactly what zergs use to zerg more effective. There are groups of 24 ppl having 12 of them healing, 4-6 spamming roots/volcanic runes and rest plant oils in open field just to exploit oil being able to dmg on flat ground. Not to mention oil overload on every objective and keep.

I invested enough hours to have 4 million ap, not much (without abusing 20 kill quest in first days, without being vampire to exploit Bat swarm). Could easily double it or even more if im not loggin off from Cyrodiil completelly dissapointed how fights looks where every baddie without skill can spam oil or balista for 2k dmg per second, and they can do it stacking on each other and mass abuse it.

ESO need option for small scale equal numbers fights, you guys might not aprove comparing to some other games while others can give you example of SWTOR or Warhammer that survived long time mostly thanks to scenarios/warzones that give ppl option to instantly join small fight and have fun killing other players. Adding arenas would bring many players who already quit bored with zergfest (to Wildstar and other games) back to ESO and in long run increase population in Cyrodiil too, because most reasonable pvp mentality players enjoy both of this activites and get bored pretty fast having only one.

nan.jieb17_ESO

Yes.

Haha you guys, good that we have a poll saying the community is the problem not the game. I hope alot of you whiners quit fast so the rest can enjoy ESO and see some development.

My vote: Yes, for Arenas. Because they helped other games survive for a very long time and offered quite some fun for real pvpers (or explain please how running in a huge number fighting very few people can determine skill).

To the whiners in this topic: I have a deja moo :disagree: