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Very Interesting - Some Zenimax Business News
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Blud✭✭✭✭✭
I'll probably start worrying when I see signs that the developers are getting fired... or permanent jobs, not the temp stuff.
Devs don't get "fired."
They "move on to new projects."
They "leave on amicable terms."
They "want to spend more time with family."
They "worked with an amazing group of people and wish the game well."Edited by Blud on June 10, 2014 11:45PM1 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Devs will be the next ones canned.
I'll probably start worrying when I see signs that the developers are getting fired... or permanent jobs, not the temp stuff.
Devs don't get "fired."
They "move on to new projects."
They "leave on amicable terms."
They "want to spend more time with family."
They "worked with an amazing group of people and wish the game well."
3 -
iuki✭✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Oh noes. Temp workers for a system not implemented yet were let go!!!
Clearly the sky is falling chicken little...
Okay, HELMETS for sale! Only been used once so mind the occasional dent or hole.
Ah good ol arsenic touch....remember what trion did shortly after launch of defiance? Yea, they dumped almost everyone and some were even lead out of the building then tossed into the street by armed security guards. But no, it was all fine the fans claimed....you know as well as I do what happened after that.
Well, looks like Zeni is doing the exact same thing. Today it's CS and soon it might be actual devs (betting on that). Basically, looks like they are cutting their losses just like trion did a year ago b/c it's clear (if you play the game) that subs are down, waaaay down.
My heart goes out to those people that were let go; I hope they can find new work soon. I do suggest to those affect to not go into the gaming sector again since layoffs and firings are common since the industry is worst place of all to find a perma job.Edited by iuki on June 11, 2014 12:08AM0 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭Are people in this thread just ignoring the fact that TEMPORARYS were let go. When ZoS starts laying off SALARIED employess you can start doomsaying.
Seriously? Doesn't concern you in the slightest that people that were expected to be on a 6-month contract were let go after 3-months?
Tells me they expected a lot more interest in the game, and it didn't pan out that way. So, they are cutting the biggest expense which is payroll. You don't go through all the trouble of recruiting, training, and hiring people for a 6 month assignment only to let them go in a few weeks unless something is drastically wrong.
Also tells me why tickets go unanswered for over a week.
"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are people in this thread just ignoring the fact that TEMPORARYS were let go. When ZoS starts laying off SALARIED employess you can start doomsaying.
Seriously? Doesn't concern you in the slightest that people that were expected to be on a 6-month contract were let go after 3-months?
Tells me they expected a lot more interest in the game, and it didn't pan out that way. So, they are cutting the biggest expense which is payroll. You don't go through all the trouble of recruiting, training, and hiring people for a 6 month assignment only to let them go in a few weeks unless something is drastically wrong.
Also tells me why tickets go unanswered for over a week.
They expected to do a release on two gaming consoles which got pushed back by six months. That's a whole lot of CS you don't need until that release actually occurs.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are people in this thread just ignoring the fact that TEMPORARYS were let go. When ZoS starts laying off SALARIED employess you can start doomsaying.
Seriously? Doesn't concern you in the slightest that people that were expected to be on a 6-month contract were let go after 3-months?
Tells me they expected a lot more interest in the game, and it didn't pan out that way. So, they are cutting the biggest expense which is payroll. You don't go through all the trouble of recruiting, training, and hiring people for a 6 month assignment only to let them go in a few weeks unless something is drastically wrong.
Also tells me why tickets go unanswered for over a week.
No. Temporary factory workers being laid off early after the company announced a major delay on product does not concern me. That strikes me as almost absurdly normal.----
Murray?3 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Really curious how many of these doomsayers have actually worked in a real corporate environment."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
Soliduparrow✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Really curious how many of these doomsayers have actually worked in a real corporate environment.
Well, since you have worked in one, can you tell us if companies hire then fire 300 customer service workers within 3 weeks if everything is going great? Is that the strategy Apple used when they launched the iPhone?3 -
Synfaer✭✭✭✭✭And I guess you dont need to read the article before making dumb comments?
Well from many of your previous posts it is apparent that you too think facts have little to do with a good story.1 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Are people in this thread just ignoring the fact that TEMPORARYS were let go. When ZoS starts laying off SALARIED employess you can start doomsaying.
Seriously? Doesn't concern you in the slightest that people that were expected to be on a 6-month contract were let go after 3-months?
Tells me they expected a lot more interest in the game, and it didn't pan out that way. So, they are cutting the biggest expense which is payroll. You don't go through all the trouble of recruiting, training, and hiring people for a 6 month assignment only to let them go in a few weeks unless something is drastically wrong.
Also tells me why tickets go unanswered for over a week.
No. Temporary factory workers being laid off early after the company announced a major delay on product does not concern me. That strikes me as almost absurdly normal.
At least factory workers have unions unless they live in some third world hellhole.
In this thread, I haven't detected much compassion for those laid off workers. It's like they were some npcs in the game and not real people. Hopefully it is a gamer thing and not society as a whole.1 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Are people in this thread just ignoring the fact that TEMPORARYS were let go. When ZoS starts laying off SALARIED employess you can start doomsaying.
Seriously? Doesn't concern you in the slightest that people that were expected to be on a 6-month contract were let go after 3-months?
Tells me they expected a lot more interest in the game, and it didn't pan out that way. So, they are cutting the biggest expense which is payroll. You don't go through all the trouble of recruiting, training, and hiring people for a 6 month assignment only to let them go in a few weeks unless something is drastically wrong.
Also tells me why tickets go unanswered for over a week.
They expected to do a release on two gaming consoles which got pushed back by six months. That's a whole lot of CS you don't need until that release actually occurs.
Doesn't say which division they worked for in the article. But, I suppose this is as good of an excuse as any to defend them. However, I'm more of the mind set that they had to know internally that the console release was going to be pushed back well in advance of the PR release. Especially considering it's such a major delay (6 months). They certainly wouldn't have hired all these people in the first place if that were the case.
Edited by Mortosk on June 11, 2014 12:15AM"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)1 -
Soliduparrow wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Really curious how many of these doomsayers have actually worked in a real corporate environment.
Well, since you have worked in one, can you tell us if companies hire then fire 300 customer service workers within 3 weeks if everything is going great? Is that the strategy Apple used when they launched the iPhone?
no apple has a different business model, like how they installed nets around their iphone factories in china because the working conditions/pay/hours were so horrible people were committing suicide by jumping from the roof every day. but hey ZOS let some temps go early so they are the really evil company huh?2 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Soliduparrow wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Really curious how many of these doomsayers have actually worked in a real corporate environment.
Well, since you have worked in one, can you tell us if companies hire then fire 300 customer service workers within 3 weeks if everything is going great? Is that the strategy Apple used when they launched the iPhone?
No one said everything is going great.
Any company planning a major product release is going to staff-up to make sure any CS issues can be handled. So they got a bunch of temporary staff to handle the CS during and immediately following console release.
It's common knowledge that ESO's console release was pushed back by 6 months, at least.
When the console release was pushed back (unexpectedly), all this staff they had hired and begun training had to be let go because there was nothing for them to do.
There's more than enough correlation to assume that this is -exactly- what happened.
This isn't a "the game is dying" kind of issue. It's the company realizing that keeping all these people on hand for no reason is a poor financial decision. So, to answer your question more directly;
Yes, this is exactly the kind of thing that happens in this sort of circumstance."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Are people in this thread just ignoring the fact that TEMPORARYS were let go. When ZoS starts laying off SALARIED employess you can start doomsaying.
Seriously? Doesn't concern you in the slightest that people that were expected to be on a 6-month contract were let go after 3-months?
Tells me they expected a lot more interest in the game, and it didn't pan out that way. So, they are cutting the biggest expense which is payroll. You don't go through all the trouble of recruiting, training, and hiring people for a 6 month assignment only to let them go in a few weeks unless something is drastically wrong.
Also tells me why tickets go unanswered for over a week.
No. Temporary factory workers being laid off early after the company announced a major delay on product does not concern me. That strikes me as almost absurdly normal.
At least factory workers have unions unless they live in some third world hellhole.
In this thread, I haven't detected much compassion for those laid off workers. It's like they were some npcs in the game and not real people. Hopefully it is a gamer thing and not society as a whole.
It sucks that they lost their jobs, but they were temporary, as is usually the case in private industry today. This way they don't have to provide health benefits, 401K, and there are tax benefits to doing this. These were likely 1099 contract employees. Corporations do whatever they can to minimize costs, and the employees of those corporations (or not really employees, technically speaking) get screwed. You don't exactly have much job security in this kind of arrangement."Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Are people in this thread just ignoring the fact that TEMPORARYS were let go. When ZoS starts laying off SALARIED employess you can start doomsaying.
Seriously? Doesn't concern you in the slightest that people that were expected to be on a 6-month contract were let go after 3-months?
Tells me they expected a lot more interest in the game, and it didn't pan out that way. So, they are cutting the biggest expense which is payroll. You don't go through all the trouble of recruiting, training, and hiring people for a 6 month assignment only to let them go in a few weeks unless something is drastically wrong.
Also tells me why tickets go unanswered for over a week.
They expected to do a release on two gaming consoles which got pushed back by six months. That's a whole lot of CS you don't need until that release actually occurs.
Doesn't say which division they worked for in the article. But, I suppose this is as good of an excuse as any to defend them. However, I'm more of the mind set that they had to know internally that the console release was going to be pushed back well in advance of the PR release. Especially considering it's such a major delay (6 months). They certainly wouldn't have hired all these people in the first place if that were the case.
They may have known internally, the higher-ups probably knew, but you don't start laying people off for no reason. They had to wait until after the announcement was made (or -right- before) to let people go otherwise you've got this mass exodus from a company for what appears to be no reason. -That's- a bad sign.
A bunch of temps being laid off after a release delay makes sense.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just curious, why do MMO players always want to see MMOs fail?@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin4 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Oh noes. Temp workers for a system not implemented yet were let go!!!
Clearly the sky is falling chicken little...
Okay, HELMETS for sale! Only been used once so mind the occasional dent or hole.
Ah good ol arsenic touch....remember what trion did shortly after launch of defiance? Yea, they dumped almost everyone and some were even lead out of the building then tossed into the street by armed security guards. But no, it was all fine the fans claimed....you know as well as I do what happened after that.
Well, looks like Zeni is doing the exact same thing. Today it's CS and soon it might be actual devs (betting on that). Basically, looks like they are cutting their losses just like trion did a year ago b/c it's clear (if you play the game) that subs are down, waaaay down.
My heart goes out to those people that were let go; I hope they can find new work soon. I do suggest to those affect to not go into the gaming sector again since layoffs and firings are common since the industry is worst place of all to find a perma job.
You would have a point if zenimax let developers go, not temp workers that were clearly hired for the eu servers that haven't been implemented yet. Trion got rid of the majority of their defiance team from the get go, contractors, developers, even their higher management, trick pretty much admitted it when he said that he was working on things by himself. So the doomsaying is unwarranted at this point and your comments about subs are amusing because I see people everywhere. But keep up the great work.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB0 -
Lalai✭✭✭✭
I'll probably start worrying when I see signs that the developers are getting fired... or permanent jobs, not the temp stuff.
Devs don't get "fired."
They "move on to new projects."
They "leave on amicable terms."
They "want to spend more time with family."
They "worked with an amazing group of people and wish the game well."
They may not get outright fired, but if they are any of the things you listed.. customers still end up hearing about it. Has happened for past MMOs like WAR, FFXIV 1.0, and TSW. That is the point at which I will start to worry.. and even then I'll still just keep playing till I'm no longer having fun :PEdited by Lalai on June 11, 2014 12:35AMFisher extraordinaire!
Send me your worms, crawlers, guts, and insect parts.
Templar Healer
Daggerfall Covenant, NA0 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭Just curious, why do MMO players always want to see MMOs fail?
I would rather they not fail. But, there are so many signs telling me they are, I'd go into them here, but it would turn into a wall of text.
I would rather invest my time in a game that is not going to fail, and I have a lot of time invested in this one already. Hopefully, they do pull their head out of their arse and fix the issues plaguing this game, so that invested time was not wasted.
"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just curious, why do MMO players always want to see MMOs fail?
It's a strange sort of self-validating nihilism, isn't it?
It's like people who are discontent with small parts of the game (ie: My class got nerfed!) suddenly get some sort of satisfaction from any news that the game might be failing just so they can say, "I told you so."
Even though they now no longer have a game to play at all."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
iuki✭✭Done with this game, unsubbed and never coming back so good luck Arsenic Touch. I am glad to see you have latched onto a new game and defending it tooth and nail; gotta have sumthin to do right? Obviously I am wrong and you are right!
Off to WS, viva la devs who 'get it'.
Bye bye.Edited by iuki on June 11, 2014 12:38AM2 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭
I'll probably start worrying when I see signs that the developers are getting fired... or permanent jobs, not the temp stuff.
Devs don't get "fired."
They "move on to new projects."
They "leave on amicable terms."
They "want to spend more time with family."
They "worked with an amazing group of people and wish the game well."
Is that what happened to Jay Wilson?!
"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)0 -
HelpingHand✭✭✭Done with this game, unsubbed and never coming back so good luck Arsenic Touch. I am glad to see you have latched onto a new game and defending it tooth and nail; gotta have sumthin to do right? Obviously I am wrong and you are right!
Off to WS, viva la devs who 'get it'.
Bye bye.
You WildStar stuck on the teet fanbois are funnier by the minute.Edited by HelpingHand on June 11, 2014 12:41AM1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Done with this game, unsubbed and never coming back so good luck Arsenic Touch. I am glad to see you have latched onto a new game and defending it tooth and nail; gotta have sumthin to do right? Obviously I am wrong and you are right!
Off to WS, viva la devs who 'get it'.
Bye bye.
The hell is "Arsenic Touch" and why do you keep saying it?"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Done with this game, unsubbed and never coming back so good luck Arsenic Touch. I am glad to see you have latched onto a new game and defending it tooth and nail; gotta have sumthin to do right? Obviously I am wrong and you are right!
Off to WS, viva la devs who 'get it'.
Bye bye.
Tooth and nail? Hardly, I've been quite critical about this game but this thread and the doomsaying is pretty ridiculous given the article posted.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB2 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Done with this game, unsubbed and never coming back so good luck Arsenic Touch. I am glad to see you have latched onto a new game and defending it tooth and nail; gotta have sumthin to do right? Obviously I am wrong and you are right!
Off to WS, viva la devs who 'get it'.
Bye bye.
The hell is "Arsenic Touch" and why do you keep saying it?
Are you blind?
☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB0 -
Lalai✭✭✭✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Done with this game, unsubbed and never coming back so good luck Arsenic Touch. I am glad to see you have latched onto a new game and defending it tooth and nail; gotta have sumthin to do right? Obviously I am wrong and you are right!
Off to WS, viva la devs who 'get it'.
Bye bye.
Tooth and nail? Hardly, I've been quite critical about this game but this thread and the doomsaying is pretty ridiculous given the article posted.
You had something positive to say. That makes you a fanboy whose criticism is hurting the game round these parts
Fisher extraordinaire!
Send me your worms, crawlers, guts, and insect parts.
Templar Healer
Daggerfall Covenant, NA1 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭^^^^ Arsenic TouchShedsHisTail wrote: »Done with this game, unsubbed and never coming back so good luck Arsenic Touch. I am glad to see you have latched onto a new game and defending it tooth and nail; gotta have sumthin to do right? Obviously I am wrong and you are right!
Off to WS, viva la devs who 'get it'.
Bye bye.
The hell is "Arsenic Touch" and why do you keep saying it?
"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Done with this game, unsubbed and never coming back so good luck Arsenic Touch. I am glad to see you have latched onto a new game and defending it tooth and nail; gotta have sumthin to do right? Obviously I am wrong and you are right!
Off to WS, viva la devs who 'get it'.
Bye bye.
The hell is "Arsenic Touch" and why do you keep saying it?
Are you blind?
It's not impossible.
Just didn't see you there. Very strange when folks single out other folks."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭You don't need the article to be justifiably pessimistic about the future of the game (you just need to look at your guild and enter any zone). But it's an interesting story. It does indicate things aren't going as well as they'd planned in some area. Well.. nowhere near as well as they'd planned.
Of course it's not going to close up shop overnight but I think you'd have to be living in La-La-Land to think this is a "success" and that some level of downscaling, if not F2P, isn't on the cards for the future.
I genuinely hope that the current model can be successful but my gut tells me to expect changes.1
This discussion has been closed.