Bolt Escape Nerf is Broken

EQ-AB_Claustaler_ESO-EU

Oh ok so it is his/her normal behavior.

Beside what I wanted to say with my calc is that atm or maybe wanted the 50% more isn touched by the mg reduce items/abs.

Auric_ESO

It's supposed to be 50%. But nobody but the devs know what they left in and out of the equation so it's kinda difficult to speculate. Since the tooltip says 50% they expect it to be exactly 50. It's obviously not and they either need to update the tooltip, wait until people just accept it and move on, or release the math (highly don't advise this, as it gives gamers the tools to argue even more), or fix the algorithm to be closer to the expected value.

EQ-AB_Claustaler_ESO-EU

Auric_ESO wrote: »

It's supposed to be 50%. But nobody but the devs know what they left in and out of the equation so it's kinda difficult to speculate. Since the tooltip says 50% they expect it to be exactly 50. It's obviously not and they either need to update the tooltip, wait until people just accept it and move on, or release the math (highly don't advise this, as it gives gamers the tools to argue even more), or fix the algorithm to be closer to the expected value.

That's the Point. Thanks.

Halrloprillalar

the tooltip should then instead read: "if you cast it again in 4s, or any other time during lag, the cost will increase by a random amount to a higher number that we basically made up on the spot because we like to keep you on your toes"

Columba

So I still see sorcs spamming this skill in pvp to escape all enemies. How was this nerfed, again?

Teargrants

Do you use any gap closers? How about I increase their cost by 80% w/in 4 sec and let you figure out how it's a nerf?

SilverWF

Auric_ESO wrote: »

Don't bother engaging that person. All he does is spout vitriol in every thread he can. Look at his post history. He adds nothing to anything he posts in. Just trying to bash a game he hates in hopes of driving away people.

Dunno what you talking about.
Every of my post full of meaning and incredibly useful.

SilverWF

EQ-AB_Claustaler_ESO-EU wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

EQ-AB_Claustaler_ESO-EU wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

EQ-AB_Claustaler_ESO-EU wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

In the right way it must be like that:
380 magicka (very base cost) + 50% = 570 magicka
Then, applies all cost decreasers:
570 - 21% (armor passive) - 10% (storm passive) -5% (Dark magic passive) -3% (breton passive) - anything else (but I didn't have)
570-39% = 348 magicka - that's a right cost for this, not 435!

380 mg (your Basic cost without any armor and skills?)
50% = 190 mg

380 mg - 39% (all boni) = 231,8 lets say 232
232 + 190 = 422 mg for the 2nd one

422 mg is close to your 435

Read your *** calculation again and try to find why you are wrong

Sorry dont see it, maybe point at my *** calculation where I am wrong.

Go back to school then

WTF please explain.

Why your 190 is not affected by any of cost decreasers?

Liquorice

Columba wrote: »

So I still see sorcs spamming this skill in pvp to escape all enemies. How was this nerfed, again?

I can still get a couple off with full mana but I'm using a lot more potions now.

Columba

Kirsika wrote: »

Do you use any gap closers? How about I increase their cost by 80% w/in 4 sec and let you figure out how it's a nerf?

Sure,but I cant spam them

SilverWF

Columba wrote: »

Sure,but I cant spam them

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=142eT6vE_7A

found this vid yesterday
you can skip to 9:50

Kiljaz

AshleyLee wrote: »

The 50% cost increase for bolt escape is broken. What dissapoints me the most on this is that I REPORTED IT ON THE PTS. via /bug and in this post http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107596/bolt-escape-streak#latest

They ignored the bug and the applied a nerf, a broken nerf, to the Live servers. I have never been as disapointed as I am right now in ZOS. Really, you dont care about having things fixed or working you just post nerf's to "quiet the masses".

I have removed jewerly to test and the "additional" cost is still there. I have yet to make the skill only charge 50% it is always a higher amount.

My issue here is NOT that it was nerf'd that it was nerf'd and applied BROKEN. If it was to cost more than say so. DONT APPLY BROKEN NERF'S.

The Details on my testing.

My Streak costs 228 magicka. 50% is 114. 228+114=342. Actual Cost is 414. According to the tooltip during the 4sec and by watching my actual magicka use.

this is exactly the bug i reported on PTS. I reported it the first day I was able to get on PTS exactly 1 day after it came up for Public use.

I reported this also and was ignored as usual by a company that plainly doesn't care about quality control...

My BE costs 78% more costing 251 the first time and 446 on the second cast...

Oh, and Endless Fury should be renamed Endless Fail... still working WORSE (never instead of most of the time), than it did before the posted FIX.

Kiljaz

SootyTX wrote: »

You are all assuming the 50% extra cost is suppsed to be reduced by passives, jewelry etc the same as the primary cost. This is a huge assumption, and, given the lack of comment from ZoS both on PTS and since, most likely an incorrect one.

If I'm proven wrong, I'll return to this thread and apologize. I sincerely doubt any of you will do the same for the insults you've hurled should I be proven correct however.

It is calculated off the base cost. People are taking gear off and it's still 58% increase. You need to figure in your unholy magic passive of 5% reduction to get true base.

The point is, the tooltip says 50% increase. NOT 50% of base cost added to consecutive casts.

So it's either bugged or they'te flipping morons who need to learn how to write a tooltip... I take that back... They're morons either way.

Thanks ZoS for being the worst technical team in MMO history.

Hiply

As others have pointed out, it still seems to be working fine in PvP...as I watched a sorc spam it 4 times as he flashed away. It's Bolt Escape, and he did...working as intended, or better.

Phantorang

limeli8 wrote: »

Its not broken, but it is 2 much of a nerf. 50% is counted of your base cost not the cost you have with cost reduction applied. I do hope they change it to 30% or even less later because 50% makes ability not worth slotting, and especially during lag it goes of more times than intended draining your magica pool and getting you killed.

Bolt Escape was never meant to be a way to do Guerilla tactics, hit and run. It was to efficient and exceeded the "Escape" it was meant to be. Now its nerfed, and its how its supposed to be, a last resort of escape, nothing else.

Not a way to:

1. Cast Critical Surge
2. Bolt "Escape" into the enemy masses
3. AoE with Impulse, Passive 240 magicka regen from kills, healing from Critical surge
4. If successful, use BE to follow the poor players trying to escape and kill them off
5. If not succsessful, pop a potion and BE away
6. Rinse and Repeat

I understand that the sheer feeling of power is addictive, but would expect anyone to understand its not very funny for the recieving end. And extremely unbalancing, who in their right mind would be insane enough to choose any other class but DK and Sorc for PvP, when you can be a one man army doing it all by yourself?

Mystborn

The 50% increase to cost is applied at the same level as any other % based cost increase or decrease.

Base cost of Bolt Escape is 392

Your first cast of Bolt Escape will cost:

(392 - x) * (1-y)

Where x is your static SCR (from jewelry) and y is your % SCR (passives, seducer, etc.)

Your second cast of Bolt Escape will cost:

(392 - x) * (1-y+0.5)

So basically when you're naked you have 15% SCR from sorc passives right?

First cast = 392 * (1 - 0.15) = 392 * 0.85 = 333
Second cast = 392 * (1 - 0.15 + 0.50) = 392 * 1.35 = 529

For the OP I'm goingto assume by your posted numbers you had a ring of -19 SCR, 7/7 light armour (21%), Seducer (3%), and the 2 sorc passives (15%)

First cast = (392 - 19) * (1 - 0.39) = 373 * 0.61 = 228
Second cast = (392 - 19) * (1 - 0.39 +0.50) = 373 * 1.11 = 414

Working as intended...

Omnevolus

crislevin wrote: »

Omnevolus wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

Omnevolus wrote: »

Is it possible that passives obtained by skill point allocation are not considered part of the applied cost? None of the examples given above have factored an outcome without them; but if they are (not?) a factor, might it explain the appearance of the supposed discrepancy?

at this point, I really don't care how they use their calculators.

just know its practically 100% increase as normal human would understand.

Okay, as long as we're admitting that logic and reason take a backseat to thoughtlessly irrational tantrums in this discussion, I suppose we're good. Carry on, no one needs to listen any more anyway.

what logic? what reasoning? a tooltip says 300, then says 550? plus a hidden 150 cost, and you call that 50% increase?

hand the question to a grade 1 kid and see if he knows how to use a calculator, LOOL.

Exactly, what logic, what reasoning, is being used by you in ignoring my point, just so you can insist on leaving out the factor I simply suggested might be at play in giving the impression that the 50% calculations by ZOS are incorrect? Right, there is no logic in insisting on leaving out a possibly legitimate factor in an equation, or even lack thereof.

It seems to me that most of you have no interest in being objective in this discussion. You just want to complain, even if someone brings up a point that might make those complaints mistaken. Oh scratch that, ESPECIALLY if someone brings up a point like that. And mind you, I did it innocently enough, just trying to help with no motivation of swaying opinions one way or the other. But go ahead, needlessly show your true colors anyway. I won't stop you.

But I will point out that your pacifier has fallen out of your mouth.

Liquorice

Hiply wrote: »

As others have pointed out, it still seems to be working fine in PvP...as I watched a sorc spam it 4 times as he flashed away. It's Bolt Escape, and he did...working as intended, or better.

This is not true for me,sometimes in pvp it is fine and sometimes it takes more or is bugged.

Soloeus

I agree, if a Sorcerer's Bolt Escape nerf is broken and denies them escape, killing that Sorc should = ban.

ZERO tolerance for exploits.

Mauzeroth

@Mystborn - Looks like you've got the math figured out.

I'm curious as to what other class skills have an increase like this. It would seem like it should be applied to base cost, not as an additive to magicka cost percent, which is why so many games wind up using multiplicative vs. additive mods.

Not playing at a level where it really matters yet, but thinking that Teleport Strike, Fiery Grip and Thundering Charge need a similar modification. This already looks like what happens to most games where the caster types get the short end of the stick because the melee pvp folks think that they should have more survivability and be able to do the same damage as the squishies while rendering them stun locked or unable to get away.

Taken alone this would be one thing, but with all the Nirnhoned issues - it looks pretty poor. Hopefully they can find a balance soon that is workable for both sides.