Sould Strike / Soul Assault In PVP, Its Too Much

SuperJChat

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

I'm a V8 DK with 1.9K spell resist (soft capped) and i've been hit by V11+'s using Soul Assault and didn't even have to heal through it, lost about 60% of my hp.

Did you even attempt to heal? it deals (average) about 360DPS over the 3.8 second cast. the player casting it can't use any other spells/abilities while casting either, so when you get hit by it you know that is all they can do during that time.

Somewhere your logic is flawed if Soul Assault is killing you frequently and your Spell resist is at 1.8K

My guess: Soul Assault isn't killing you, but you aren't healing through/after and then you are getting burst DPS'd down from what little HP you have left

Dleatherus

you're right!!

i think somebody should design an mmo where the only class you can be is caveman and the only weapon is a club for melee and a rock for ranged - always same damage against same hp as your enemies so no leveling etc -heaven forbid somebody could have an advantage (that btw you are free to build and have also)

man wouldn't that be fair balanced and fun *puke*

D.

Kewljag_66_ESO

SuperJChat wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

I'm a V8 DK with 1.9K spell resist (soft capped) and i've been hit by V11+'s using Soul Assault and didn't even have to heal through it, lost about 60% of my hp.

Did you even attempt to heal? it deals (average) about 360DPS over the 3.8 second cast. the player casting it can't use any other spells/abilities while casting either, so when you get hit by it you know that is all they can do during that time.

Somewhere your logic is flawed if Soul Assault is killing you frequently and your Spell resist is at 1.8K

My guess: Soul Assault isn't killing you, but you aren't healing through/after and then you are getting burst DPS'd down from what little HP you have left

Im NB i dont have a class heal, and i dont bolt escape. i have 2500hp and player made potions but still 3000 damage.......

You get knocked down and by the time you break out of CC the ability has already almost killed you no way to really recover. My main issue the range at which it can be used, They should have to put them self in danger to use it, like i said there is no other single target damage ability or ultimate in that game that even comes close to it... damage, cost, or range wise

dcincali

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

So I will rarely complain about an ability, Usually I will find a way to counter it.

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

last night every other time i died was because of this ability on my kill log.

When this ability is used on you, you cannot block it or dodge it, it stays on you doing full damage. When it is used on you at range you cannot get to them to use your bash interupt. They also like to use Immovable before they cast it so there is no way to interupt.

IMO the damage should be toned down or ATLEAST limit the range and to a somewhat short range ability so the caster has to put them self in danger to use it and have a risk of being interupted by bashes melee range. I know its an ultimate and needs to remain worthy of an ultimate but it shouldnt remain a gaurenteed kill ability from safe range when you get to use it.

I would suggest wearing something other then paper to pvp in. Or maybe buy health potions..

If you were grouped and your healer let you die, that's pretty *** of them. I can heal a lvl 10 through this skill. Its not that hard.

Thechemicals

Negative, if someone knocks me down i cc break instantly before that effect is even finished casting and as soon as im up, i cast sunshield and/or block. If you arent breaking out of effects as soon as they happen then yes, you are going to die. Its real time combat with active fighting so some measure of reflex and coordination is required.

As far as immovable+ Soul Strike, thats a very costly investment for a caster to make, but immovable prevents movement impairing and disabling effects and a basic interupt is not covered by immovable so there you go....

As far as range, I love it.Nothing like disintegrating someone from long range. It makes the spell fun and unique. Most players arent going to just long range soul strike you, the spell needs some pre spells to really do some dmg.

Samadhi

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

...
125 ultimate 95% of a free kill
...

150 Ultimate points, and effective at killing if timed intelligently.

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

...
250 ultimate for meterior only 1/3 the damage
...

Meteor does AoE damage and knocks back all targets it hits.
Soul Assault does single target damage and a slow effect.

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

...
725 ultimate to turn in a werewolf
...

Werewolf is notoriously gimped; however, this point cost is for a transformation that temporarily buffs character stats as well as gives access to a different set of skills with their own bonuses.
Soul Assault does single target damage and a slow effect.

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

...
1000 ultiamte for deathstroke to do 1/3 teh damage from melee range (also cuts 50% heals)

Death Stroke has a cap on the damage increase from additional Ultimate points. The cap is at 275%. Why wait for 1000 points?
Death Stroke can be cast with effective results at 50 Ultimate. It is meant to be used often.
Death Stroke reduces target healing, which can be a game changer.
Death Stroke can crit (and Shadowy Disguise --> Death Stroke veritably guarantees it does)
Soul Assault does single target damage and has a slow effect.

When weighed in comparison to other Ultimate skills, I don't really see balance issues around it. The cost is reasonable for what it does; what it does is reasonable compared to what other Ultimate skills do.

kirnmalidus

It's a world skill ability so everyone has access to it. If you think it's too powerful, use it.

Halrloprillalar

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

SuperJChat wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

I'm a V8 DK with 1.9K spell resist (soft capped) and i've been hit by V11+'s using Soul Assault and didn't even have to heal through it, lost about 60% of my hp.

Did you even attempt to heal? it deals (average) about 360DPS over the 3.8 second cast. the player casting it can't use any other spells/abilities while casting either, so when you get hit by it you know that is all they can do during that time.

Somewhere your logic is flawed if Soul Assault is killing you frequently and your Spell resist is at 1.8K

My guess: Soul Assault isn't killing you, but you aren't healing through/after and then you are getting burst DPS'd down from what little HP you have left

Im NB i dont have a class heal, and i dont bolt escape. i have 2500hp and player made potions but still 3000 damage.......

You get knocked down and by the time you break out of CC the ability has already almost killed you no way to really recover. My main issue the range at which it can be used, They should have to put them self in danger to use it, like i said there is no other single target damage ability or ultimate in that game that even comes close to it... damage, cost, or range wise

What is your spell resist? Why aren't you using breakout sooner? Why not use stealth as NB when you have 2 bars available to you? Put annulment and/or immovable on there somewhere too.

Wolfahm

Samadhi wrote: »

Death Stroke can crit (and Shadowy Disguise --> Death Stroke veritably guarantees it does)

It can't crit since 1.1 when they made it no longer gain a stealth bonus > they also made it so it no longer crits(by mistake)

Jaxom

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

SuperJChat wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

I'm a V8 DK with 1.9K spell resist (soft capped) and i've been hit by V11+'s using Soul Assault and didn't even have to heal through it, lost about 60% of my hp.

Did you even attempt to heal? it deals (average) about 360DPS over the 3.8 second cast. the player casting it can't use any other spells/abilities while casting either, so when you get hit by it you know that is all they can do during that time.

Somewhere your logic is flawed if Soul Assault is killing you frequently and your Spell resist is at 1.8K

My guess: Soul Assault isn't killing you, but you aren't healing through/after and then you are getting burst DPS'd down from what little HP you have left

Im NB i dont have a class heal, and i dont bolt escape. i have 2500hp and player made potions but still 3000 damage.......

You get knocked down and by the time you break out of CC the ability has already almost killed you no way to really recover. My main issue the range at which it can be used, They should have to put them self in danger to use it, like i said there is no other single target damage ability or ultimate in that game that even comes close to it... damage, cost, or range wise

What is your spell resist? Why aren't you using breakout sooner? Why not use stealth as NB when you have 2 bars available to you? Put annulment and/or immovable on there somewhere too.

I'm not sure how he built his NB but Dark Cloak should be on your bar in PvP as a rule of thumb. I don't have it solely for Soul Assault but you better believe I'm hitting stealth the second I see that bright light heading towards me. The fact that he has no self healing is a problem too. You can't go into Cyrodiil as a glass cannon and complain you are getting killed (especially since he/she is running solo).

Kewljag_66_ESO

dcincali wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

So I will rarely complain about an ability, Usually I will find a way to counter it.

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

last night every other time i died was because of this ability on my kill log.

When this ability is used on you, you cannot block it or dodge it, it stays on you doing full damage. When it is used on you at range you cannot get to them to use your bash interupt. They also like to use Immovable before they cast it so there is no way to interupt.

IMO the damage should be toned down or ATLEAST limit the range and to a somewhat short range ability so the caster has to put them self in danger to use it and have a risk of being interupted by bashes melee range. I know its an ultimate and needs to remain worthy of an ultimate but it shouldnt remain a gaurenteed kill ability from safe range when you get to use it.

I would suggest wearing something other then paper to pvp in. Or maybe buy health potions..

If you were grouped and your healer let you die, that's pretty *** of them. I can heal a lvl 10 through this skill. Its not that hard.

I am a VR3 NB wearing all medium armor. I have +armor and magic resist jewelry, my magic resist is at the 1800 soft cap, my armor is very close to softcap. i have 2500 hps and use the best player made heal potions. I dont have a class heal. i can go 1v1 with any class, i even beat vr12 DKs half teh time. I play solo and the only encounters im talking about are 1v1 with sorcs. Why should i be required to group for heals just so that i dont die against 1 ability that is way over used and too powerful by mainly sorcs? Should an ability really be able to do that much damage from max range? and have such a low cost? compared to all teh other abilities?

Halrloprillalar

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

So I will rarely complain about an ability, Usually I will find a way to counter it.

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

last night every other time i died was because of this ability on my kill log.

When this ability is used on you, you cannot block it or dodge it, it stays on you doing full damage. When it is used on you at range you cannot get to them to use your bash interupt. They also like to use Immovable before they cast it so there is no way to interupt.

IMO the damage should be toned down or ATLEAST limit the range and to a somewhat short range ability so the caster has to put them self in danger to use it and have a risk of being interupted by bashes melee range. I know its an ultimate and needs to remain worthy of an ultimate but it shouldnt remain a gaurenteed kill ability from safe range when you get to use it.

I would suggest wearing something other then paper to pvp in. Or maybe buy health potions..

If you were grouped and your healer let you die, that's pretty *** of them. I can heal a lvl 10 through this skill. Its not that hard.

I am a VR3 NB wearing all medium armor. I have +armor and magic resist jewelry, my magic resist is at the 1800 soft cap, my armor is very close to softcap. i have 2500 hps and use the best player made heal potions. I dont have a class heal. i can go 1v1 with any class, i even beat vr12 DKs half teh time. I play solo and the only encounters im talking about are 1v1 with sorcs. Why should i be required to group for heals just so that i dont die against 1 ability that is way over used and too powerful by mainly sorcs? Should an ability really be able to do that much damage from max range? and have such a low cost? compared to all teh other abilities?

1. It's not a 1v1 game
2. That being said, templars (via Eclipse) and DKs (via reflecting scale) usually beat sorcs 1v1 all else being ~equal.
3. Actual sorc ults suck balls for pvp... which is why most sorcs use SS.
4. The NB pvp burst ult is getting buffed next patch.
5. Read my sig.

Kewljag_66_ESO

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

SuperJChat wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

I'm a V8 DK with 1.9K spell resist (soft capped) and i've been hit by V11+'s using Soul Assault and didn't even have to heal through it, lost about 60% of my hp.

Did you even attempt to heal? it deals (average) about 360DPS over the 3.8 second cast. the player casting it can't use any other spells/abilities while casting either, so when you get hit by it you know that is all they can do during that time.

Somewhere your logic is flawed if Soul Assault is killing you frequently and your Spell resist is at 1.8K

My guess: Soul Assault isn't killing you, but you aren't healing through/after and then you are getting burst DPS'd down from what little HP you have left

Im NB i dont have a class heal, and i dont bolt escape. i have 2500hp and player made potions but still 3000 damage.......

You get knocked down and by the time you break out of CC the ability has already almost killed you no way to really recover. My main issue the range at which it can be used, They should have to put them self in danger to use it, like i said there is no other single target damage ability or ultimate in that game that even comes close to it... damage, cost, or range wise

What is your spell resist? Why aren't you using breakout sooner? Why not use stealth as NB when you have 2 bars available to you? Put annulment and/or immovable on there somewhere too.

My spell resist is at 1803, thats my main concern, an ability doing 3001 damage to me even with that high of spell resist. And coming from 35meters away makes it even worse.

Yes you have pointed out a few ways to counter it. BUT should there really be an ability in the game that kills you by itself if you dont counter it? I cant think of one other ability that will do this or even come close. But i am actually fine with the damage it can do, i just dont think it should be able to do it from so far away. To get rewarded for using such a strong ability you should have to atleast put your self in danger.

Cody

odd. I never even noticed this ability:/ I saw it in my skill lines, but decided not to use it, as I was satisfied with my current alt. I have yet to actually notice anyone using it. now, if its doing 3000 damage, that does need to be nerfed. But again, I have rarely ever even seen it, or be killed by it, so maybe you are doing something wrong.

Halrloprillalar

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Yes you have pointed out a few ways to counter it. BUT should there really be an ability in the game that kills you by itself if you dont counter it? I cant think of one other ability that will do this or even come close. But i am actually fine with the damage it can do, i just dont think it should be able to do it from so far away. To get rewarded for using such a strong ability you should have to atleast put your self in danger.

You are still thinking about the 1v1 scenario, where it's all about counters, yes.

In a group situation, there are far, far worse things than soul strike.

Kiljaz

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

So I will rarely complain about an ability, Usually I will find a way to counter it.

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

last night every other time i died was because of this ability on my kill log.

When this ability is used on you, you cannot block it or dodge it, it stays on you doing full damage. When it is used on you at range you cannot get to them to use your bash interupt. They also like to use Immovable before they cast it so there is no way to interupt.

IMO the damage should be toned down or ATLEAST limit the range and to a somewhat short range ability so the caster has to put them self in danger to use it and have a risk of being interupted by bashes melee range. I know its an ultimate and needs to remain worthy of an ultimate but it shouldnt remain a gaurenteed kill ability from safe range when you get to use it.

Actually you can block it to massively decrease the damage output. It's also very easy to counter seeing as it's a channel...

kirnmalidus

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

So I will rarely complain about an ability, Usually I will find a way to counter it.

But lately everyone and their mom is using this ultimate. 3.2 sec channel ultimate. Now I know an Ultimate needs to be an ultimate but im being hit for 2000 to 3000 damage (with 1800 soft cap magic resist) from full range 35m in PVP is too much.

last night every other time i died was because of this ability on my kill log.

When this ability is used on you, you cannot block it or dodge it, it stays on you doing full damage. When it is used on you at range you cannot get to them to use your bash interupt. They also like to use Immovable before they cast it so there is no way to interupt.

IMO the damage should be toned down or ATLEAST limit the range and to a somewhat short range ability so the caster has to put them self in danger to use it and have a risk of being interupted by bashes melee range. I know its an ultimate and needs to remain worthy of an ultimate but it shouldnt remain a gaurenteed kill ability from safe range when you get to use it.

I would suggest wearing something other then paper to pvp in. Or maybe buy health potions..

If you were grouped and your healer let you die, that's pretty *** of them. I can heal a lvl 10 through this skill. Its not that hard.

I am a VR3 NB wearing all medium armor. I have +armor and magic resist jewelry, my magic resist is at the 1800 soft cap, my armor is very close to softcap. i have 2500 hps and use the best player made heal potions. I dont have a class heal. i can go 1v1 with any class, i even beat vr12 DKs half teh time. I play solo and the only encounters im talking about are 1v1 with sorcs. Why should i be required to group for heals just so that i dont die against 1 ability that is way over used and too powerful by mainly sorcs? Should an ability really be able to do that much damage from max range? and have such a low cost? compared to all teh other abilities?

Have you checked out the Siphoning class skills? There is a lot wrong with Nightblades right now, but we do have decent self heals.

Samadhi

Wolfahm wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Death Stroke can crit (and Shadowy Disguise --> Death Stroke veritably guarantees it does)

It can't crit since 1.1 when they made it no longer gain a stealth bonus > they also made it so it no longer crits(by mistake)

Just tested with Tactical Foundry.

Death Stroke does crit every time I use Shadowy Disguise.
Death Stroke also does crit when sneaking (crouched) behind an enemy.

Death stroke does not receive the sneak attack bonus.

Does crit though.

*Edit*
I should possibly specify that this is the Soul Harvest morph specifically -- the other morphs may conceivably be broken.

As a side note:
Any Nightblade that is not using potions is doing himself or herself a huge disfavour.
With the new Catalyst update my potions give my 601 Health points on the first tick. Stack that with Swallow Soul for self-healing and things are excellent.

nukeyoo

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

YOU can tell me l2p... I am actually one of teh few who never complain and always find a counter.

You can't make the statement that you never complain in the middle of your complaint thread. There's been a plethora of counters listed for you; pick one and

The_Drexill

I've started using it now, it's definitely overpowered... but I suppose everyone can get it, so 1v1 is now all dependent on who can CC someone and cast ultimate from range first.

The_Drexill

Huckdabuck wrote: »

I got hit with one Soul Assault (which normally doesn't bother me too terribly) then noticed that a second Soul Assault appeared from another player......I roll dodged and healed to full (TRUE SWToR SORC FTW) while on my VR12 sorc last night and attacking Alessia on Wabba.

Me and my wife were assisting each other and double SA'ing people down on Wabba last night...

shanersimms_ESO

This thread is sooo full of fail. Soul Assault damage is ridiculously easy to heal through and is purely single target and leaves you vulnerable while channeling. Meteor is an instant case and also does AOE dmg. Although ultimate costs of some of the other abilities could be reduced, a lot of people are comparing apples to oranges here and not considering all the effects of the different ultimates. If you can't figure out a way to counter Soul Assault then you are just bad or simple. Either way, this game may not be for you as you clearly have no concept of strategy.

Baphomet

Well, let's see what happens. Standard got nerfed because it was too powerful when several DKs stacked it, and standard is also rediculously easy to counter now. What we have here is a ranged attack that gives an almost guaranteed kill when you stack it. Any group with just a little cordination can stack this easily because whoever the first caster is targeting the other will too.

Halrloprillalar

Baphomet wrote: »

Well, let's see what happens. Standard got nerfed because it was too powerful when several DKs stacked it, and standard is also rediculously easy to counter now. What we have here is a ranged attack that gives an almost guaranteed kill when you stack it. Any group with just a little cordination can stack this easily because whoever the first caster is targeting the other will too.

Next up, focus fire and assisting is too OP, needs nerf

Kingslayer

Nothing wrong with it, its a single target ability. Stop complaining over nothing

Braidas

dont think ive ever been killed by it lol, just heal once or twice w/ BoL nd ur g2g

TomLukman

I don't use it but can't really say it's OP. I easily out heal it myself and regularly kill those who use this ability on me. Now what I don't get about it is what the heck is 307% snare on Soul Assauilt III? Does it make you go backwards?

ishilb14_ESO

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

So now another skill is too much for a player to handle. Been using this ultimate for a longtime, would hate to see it nerf'd because people aren't taking the proper measures to defend against it. As a templar, i just use sunshield and 750 of the damage is already blocked. If they are far away i use shield charge. If they cast immovable, i pop absorb magic or even eclipse. Even popping immovable yourself, mitigates the spell damage. As far as not being able to block the damage, that is 100% false. Blocking mitigates Soul Strikes damage, even if you dont have a shield. You can also dps him down during this channeling, many players have attacked and killed me during my channeling of this spell.

Its a good spell and is balanced, l2p.

Actually if blocking does work that changes my whole perspective on the ability. i tried once and it didnt seem to do anything, maybe it was because it was still too much damage and i was already about to die. But if blocking gives you the ability to survive it thats all i needed to know.

As for you being killed while chanelling teh spell chances are the person was being healed or you were already hurt. In the 3 seconds you are chanelling it is very rare for anyone to be able to do 2500 damage to you before they die AND close teh gap of 35 meter range. Which is my main issue with the ability, take away that range and and actually make the caster put them self in danger to use.

YOU can tell me l2p... I am actually one of teh few who never complain and always find a counter. but you can not truely believe this ablity is balanced... compare it to every other ability and ultimate

Why should it have a risk lol other ultimates have no risk, they are all situational, the only risk is when not using an ultimate in an appropriate situation, like a DK isn't gonna drop a standard when his opponent is 30m away, same as how someone isn't gonna use soul strike when their opponent is right in front of them, and seriously, at 40m away, just run in the opposite direction problem solved. And LOS does work, the game is just laggy and just doesn't register you as having moved behind an object for about a second, so not the skill's fault, that's the game's fault, this is the reason when you cast soul strike right before someone breaks LOS, you end up just losing all your ultimate without casting it.

JosephChip

Does reflective scale work against this ultimate?

Tintinabula

Back away.(usually ppl who hit you with it are at max range .Break that range and the spell stops)

Interrupt. (The spell can be interrupted..charge them..knock them off their feet.)

Heal through it.(I used dragons blood tonight to heal through one)

Block.(Any block mitigates max damage)

I'm usually hit with two or three when i die to it or when im hit already at low health.