Memory Leaks

denicolad16_ESO

I build and repair all my computers. I've never experienced a memory leak that I know of so I've never researched the subject and had to fix one or prevent it from happening.

When you guys have memory leaks because of this game what happens and how do you fix it? What makes you know you have a memory leak?

GreySix

Seems to be a bit of a problem with Mac OS machines, though my two Macs have been running stable on the game.

Might want to check the Customer Support forum though.

Publius_Scipio

This is a question for the now legendary @Moonraker‌ to assist you with.

rawne1980b16_ESO

I suffer from massive memory leaks.



But I am getting old now.

Appalachian

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I suffer from massive memory leaks.



But I am getting old now.

50+, too?

denicolad16_ESO

Appalachian wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I suffer from massive memory leaks.



But I am getting old now.

50+, too?

Haha... Is that what I have to look forward to than? I'm about to hit 40.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Appalachian wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I suffer from massive memory leaks.



But I am getting old now.

50+, too?

Sadly i'm only in my mid 30's but my short term memory is awful.

My wife asks me to fetch something for her when I go to the kitchen but by the time I get there I forget what she wants and why I went there in the first place.

GreySix

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Appalachian wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I suffer from massive memory leaks.



But I am getting old now.

50+, too?

Sadly i'm only in my mid 30's but my short term memory is awful.

My wife asks me to fetch something for her when I go to the kitchen but by the time I get there I forget what she wants and why I went there in the first place.

Yeah, don't think that's an age-related thing.

Moonraker

I think it's a term which is misunderstood and over used but remains an issue nonetheless. I'm certainly no expert just and interested observer.

The thing I see when I read about stuff like this is just how complex something like an MMO and how many variables there are which may cause a memory related issue. Just take this as a broad idea of the types of issues you would need to consider, monitor and fix over many development teams involved;

Much more serious leaks include those (especially highlighted parts for ESO):

where the program runs for an extended time and consumes additional memory over time, such as background tasks on servers, but especially in embedded devices which may be left running for many years

where new memory is allocated frequently for one-time tasks, such as when rendering the frames of a computer game or animated video

where the program can request memory — such as shared memory — that is not released, even when the program terminates

where memory is very limited, such as in an embedded system or portable device

where the leak occurs within the operating system or memory manager
when a system device driver causes the leak

source

Then, there is the difference is say OS. The way the PC client and Mac client have to handle memory are different and this in turn leads to memory issues causing the Mac client to currently crash over time yet the PC client doesn't (though it is impacted just not fall over)

One common factor the developers are having to deal with is that they fixed on a 32-bit client a while back in development process for reasons of backward compatibility (wider potential audience) which itself is a big limiting factor (maximum 4GB addressable space whatever RAM is installed)

32-bit in itself is not inherently bad. Just that in today's world of increasingly sophisticated and powerful computers (especially GPU), OS improvements, and wanting to deliver great looking content including battles with literally hundreds of players in one place, it's pushing the capabilities to the limit. 64-bit is not the answer in itself (32-bit client can and should run without memory crash) but it will allow a greater flexibility to the developer and what they want to deliver to the end user and at the same time allow the client to address all the RAM installed which would pretty much remove the issue (though it doesn't mean leaks should be left)

The other factor of this is that the Mac client has to load more into memory on launch than the PC client which just leaves less 'wriggle room' too.

In answer to the OP, at least on a Mac you will use Apple developer tools to test for memory leaks (in whatever form they may take) so for example XCode tools provided to developers and outlined in say this;

Mac Developer Library - Finding Memory Leaks

and

Locating Memory Issues in Your App

But then for a game like ESO you also need automated systems in place for testing the game engine itself, other platforms being supported (four currently with consoles out at some point), different APIs used for graphics, audio etc. All part of the overall development engineering, QA process.

For the PC client I expect it's a similar way of working.

GreySix

Think releasing a 64-bit client would help?

denicolad16_ESO

Thank you Moonraker.

FrauPerchta

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I suffer from massive memory leaks.



But I am getting old now.

Hit 60 in July!

Never thought I'd travel long enough to make it into the realm of Old Fart.

Appalachian

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Appalachian wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I suffer from massive memory leaks.



But I am getting old now.

50+, too?

Sadly i'm only in my mid 30's but my short term memory is awful.

My wife asks me to fetch something for her when I go to the kitchen but by the time I get there I forget what she wants and why I went there in the first place.

ADHD or Anxiety Disorder in your family tree?

Just kidding.

I think you just have a high IQ and it is easy to have those tangent-ing thought processes!

Didn't Einstein have to be dressed by his wife, lest he appear in public with no socks/mismatched clothes, etc.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj33-xWnVdw

Sindala

I don't understand why we even consider writing games that play on PC or MAC.
That's like saying "were gonna make this game console friendly too....PS4,Xbox1 AND WEE. (Yes I do class the Mac as the Wee version of a home computer)

GreySix

Sindala wrote: »

(Yes I do class the Mac as the Wee version of a home computer)

No love for Macs, eh?

zharthasb16_ESO

Windows 8.1 / cpu i7/ memory 8 g (16g soon) / SSD 240 for eso and SSD 128 for windows / video nvidia 765m /

Memory leak since patch 1.1.2 - never had probleme before.

I think im gonna stop playing for not damage my computer

Sihnfahl

GreySix wrote: »

Think releasing a 64-bit client would help?

No. The only difference between a 64 bit client and a 32 bit client would be that the memory addressing would allow the 64 bit client to effectively hit the maximum memory your computer could use before it crashed and burned.

Memory leaks are programming issues. Objects and stored variables that aren't properly destroyed / released. So they just sit in memory, using up space, while the program creates even more objects and stores more information, consuming more and more memory...

Until there's no more ability for the program to address the memory because it hit its limit. Or the computer hit the limit (64 bit programs can address more memory than you can put into a private consumer computer...)

anakaki

denicolad16_ESO wrote: »

I build and repair all my computers. I've never experienced a memory leak that I know of so I've never researched the subject and had to fix one or prevent it from happening.

When you guys have memory leaks because of this game what happens and how do you fix it? What makes you know you have a memory leak?

Crash once every hour on a machine I spent 4300 euro on 3 months ago.
Only happens when in ESO, no other mmo/game (so far).

Post the issue on the mac technical forums. I did 2 1/2 months ago.
Still not fixed.

kevin19_ESO

zharthasb16_ESO wrote: »

Windows 8.1 / cpu i7/ memory 8 g (16g soon) / SSD 240 for eso and SSD 128 for windows / video nvidia 765m /

Memory leak since patch 1.1.2 - never had probleme before.

I think im gonna stop playing for not damage my computer

Same problem since the last patch, nearly identical to above (Windows 8.1, cpui5, 8GB memory). ESO crashes, dialog box "Close programs to prevent information loss. Your computer is low on memory. Save your files and close these programs: ESO"

Only thing running, ESO... Up until the last patch I had no problems.

Sihnfahl

anakaki wrote: »

Post the issue on the mac technical forums. I did 2 1/2 months ago. Still not fixed.

Yeah, the problem is that Objective C programmers are just ... well. Not many people get into it. So not only is their Mac team trying to keep synchronized with the PC programming team, but they're also being tasked to fix issues specific to Apple products.

Understandably, they'll probably not hire more Apple programmers; Apple for the desktop / laptop gaming market doesn't have as much penetration as Windows based.

GreySix

The game has run fine on both my Macs for the last two weeks.

Granted, the most I'll play is for two hours at a time.

Sihnfahl

Right; memory leaks are progressive issues. Some folks run into them faster than others because they interact in the environments that generate more of the non-destructible objects for longer periods.

Chiren

There's a commonly known memory issue where if you run a game in full screen mode that is not the same resolution as your desktop resolution then you run out of memory - this is not an ESO issue, its a Nvidia one.

Personally I have had this issue even if I do run the game in full screen mode in the same resolution as my laptop (1366x768). I found that if I run the game in windowed full screen (preferred anyways) then I don't get any memory issue.

theyancey

The people who have the most frequent problems with this have the least RAM. I think that 12 GB is the sweet spot to take care of the game client, the OS, and the various other processed that you may have running. I have 20 GB. I am also running Win 8.1 Pro, 64 bit. Win 8 handles memory in a different way than previous editions. It mo betta. As far as specific memory leaks go, I have observed the game launcher slowly ticking up on its memory usage. The quick and easy solution? End task on it after your game has launched. It is not necessary for the game to run and doing so will just free up that much more RAM.

duchessofkvetchb14_ESO

No to the 12 gigs, got that on the laptop that was experiencing the leak here (3 machines with ESO installed).

In my case, 2 of my comps had the leak after the last major patch - the one that first introduced it. After the hotfix, only one was still puking, and it would do so even if my character was just standing around.

This was a really bizarre leak in that it seemed to only be happening to ONE of my characters - specfically my husband's main, and he claimed to get the memory leak, as well as crashes every half hour or so, even on the other PC's in the house. Whereas I had no problem playing anymore.

I ended up removing EVERYTHING from that character's inventory and dumping it in the bank (and the guild bank). Problem fixed. Very strange!

I'm seriously wondering if it was related to inventory somehow, especially since it was character-specific across multiple platforms. I've seen reports of weird bugged mobs in the game, that caused lag by looking at them; similar to some of the bugged doors and transition areas. Haven't gone back to try to reproduce the problem though, as I plan to deconstruct or throw away all the possible "infected" bank items.

So, in short - my advice is to try to reproduce using a different character (new creation, just run around and watch memory usage). If they're clean, do what I did and dump everything on your other characters (I kept my disguises, maps, pets, etc - just move them to the bank, don't need to destroy/sell).

zharthasb16_ESO

theyancey wrote: »

The people who have the most frequent problems with this have the least RAM. I think that 12 GB is the sweet spot to take care of the game client, the OS, and the various other processed that you may have running. I have 20 GB. I am also running Win 8.1 Pro, 64 bit. Win 8 handles memory in a different way than previous editions. It mo betta. As far as specific memory leaks go, I have observed the game launcher slowly ticking up on its memory usage. The quick and easy solution? End task on it after your game has launched. It is not necessary for the game to run and doing so will just free up that much more RAM.

I start game with eso.exe (for testing) much memory avalaible for the game but the leak still there -

wait and see

isengrimb16_ESO

Sihnfahl wrote: »

anakaki wrote: »

Post the issue on the mac technical forums. I did 2 1/2 months ago. Still not fixed.

Yeah, the problem is that Objective C programmers are just ... well. Not many people get into it. So not only is their Mac team trying to keep synchronized with the PC programming team, but they're also being tasked to fix issues specific to Apple products.

Understandably, they'll probably not hire more Apple programmers; Apple for the desktop / laptop gaming market doesn't have as much penetration as Windows based.

Um. I find that interesting. The last time I saw television ads, Apple was pumping itself up as the "fun and games" computer, while presenting Windows boxes as nothing but drab, boring business machines. I guess that campaign failed to convince?

PS, I'm learning a lot here, otherwise.

GreySix

Lots more PC-geared games out there than Apple games, and most Apple games are Wine ports of Windows games. ESO is one of the few exceptions.

Have both Mac OS and Windows 7 on both of my dual-boot Macs, so can run anything on them. ESO does make both Macs run hotter on the Windows side than the Mac OS side. Couldn't tell you why.

Demira

FrauPerchta wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I suffer from massive memory leaks.



But I am getting old now.

Hit 60 in July!

Never thought I'd travel long enough to make it into the realm of Old Fart.

Love this! lmao

Evergnar

@duchessofkvetchb14_ESO
Good info and interesting. I've wondered myself how some inventory effects things.

For a period of time (like weeks) I was getting the endless loading screen trying to get into Cyrodiil with one my characters. I found that if I did not pick up siege weapons before trying to get in it worked fine.

My PvP gear usually comes from multiple characters so not sure if that played a part in it or not. My other character had no problem getting into PvP with it.

Sihnfahl

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

The last time I saw television ads, Apple was pumping itself up as the "fun and games" computer, while presenting Windows boxes as nothing but drab, boring business machines. I guess that campaign failed to convince?

Well, for years, Apple was mostly for graphic designers, musicians and artists; their programs tended to be more polished than their PC counterparts.

They really didn't get many games as major studios didn't think Apples had enough consumer market penetration (sub 10%) to be viable.

MS-DOS and Windows machines became the go-to for gaming, so they got the lion's share of game programmers, hardware designers and such.

The iPad and iPhone got more people into the idea of Apple gaming, since those two devices penetrated a market that was previously weak - the on-the-road gaming market.

Apple's trying to reverse that on the desktop / laptop market. The problem is that momentum makes it hard to convert. Also, the language differences means downtime to programmers while they adjust to the requirements / vagaries of the MacBooks and iMacs.